[oldnemesis]

(05-08-2011 12:28 PM)Luckystar Wrote:  

So what if it is?
I actually don't care to have women as equals. Frankly, I just don't think they are.
Furthermore, I want men to have leverage, as we use to have in NA or have in other parts of the world.

You may have standards as high as you want. But unless you have a matching really high value, you may not even have an option to apply them. You see a lot of similar examples in employment - you may think nobody should do this job for $10 an hour, but at the end someone will get it anyway, just not you.

Quote:

Truth is the more we scrutinize women the better for us. We need to establish some 'real' standards again.

The obvious problem with your approach is that you think of it as like you're selecting an item to buy in a store, where you have all the power and the items have none. It is not, it is more like employment. You can scrutinize employers as much as you want, but unless everyone else agrees to do the same using the same standards as you, this will bring you nowhere - they'll just hire someone else instead of you.

Quote:

Thank god, there is at least some common sense on this board. No way I take threesome ho for LTR. You do disservice to all of us if you do.

Her being in a threesomes wouldn't affect her LTR worthiness for me in any negative way (I may actually prefer it), and I don't see it as "common sense". Nor I actually see it being universal even here. Disservice? I don't give shit, I'm not here to service anyone but myself.

Not to mention that after living here in America for a while I became VERY skeptical toward the "I would never do that" holier-than-thou talks. My experience shows that such promises are never kept here, and mostly stated just to "look good", making them completely meaningless. To make it crystal clear, I am absolutely sure that if you meet a right girl, her sexual past won't matter despite everything you wrote here.

(05-08-2011 12:33 PM)Luckystar Wrote:  

You are assuming they will tell you the truth if allow them. Reminds me of the saying - 'take a guys number and divide it by 2, take a girls number and multiply it by 3'.

They actually might tell me the truth in my case. Although I don't remember ever asking a single girl about their numbers. Why would I care? I am not that holier-than-thou type.

[oldnemesis]

(05-08-2011 04:14 PM)rozayINTL Wrote:  

A key that can open up a lot of locks, that's one hell of a key.

This is true if you own the key. But this is not that great if you own the lock. See?

[Luckystar]

(05-08-2011 07:17 PM)oldnemesis Wrote:  

(05-08-2011 12:28 PM)Luckystar Wrote:  

So what if it is?
I actually don't care to have women as equals. Frankly, I just don't think they are.
Furthermore, I want men to have leverage, as we use to have in NA or have in other parts of the world.

You may have standards as high as you want. But unless you have a matching really high value, you may not even have an option to apply them. You see a lot of similar examples in employment - you may think nobody should do this job for $10 an hour, but at the end someone will get it anyway, just not you.

I agree...we have too many guys taking minimum wage jobs. Having said that, you can create DHV without having anything tangible. Remember, we are talking 'perceived value' not actual value. There are guys with little value outside of their game who are in LTRs with quality women.

Quote:

Truth is the more we scrutinize women the better for us. We need to establish some 'real' standards again.

The obvious problem with your approach is that you think of it as like you're selecting an item to buy in a store, where you have all the power and the items have none. It is not, it is more like employment. You can scrutinize employers as much as you want, but unless everyone else agrees to do the same using the same standards as you, this will bring you nowhere - they'll just hire someone else instead of you.

I agree. We have been divided and conquered and shamed into accepting substandard pussy by gender equality. For every guy with the strength to reject hot pussy for the right reasons, there are a 100+ soft, weak ass dudes ready to sell each other out over some 'phat' ass. I can definitely respect Roosh's decision making a lot of the time.

Quote:

Thank god, there is at least some common sense on this board. No way I take threesome ho for LTR. You do disservice to all of us if you do.

Her being in a threesomes wouldn't affect her LTR worthiness for me in any negative way (I may actually prefer it), and I don't see it as "common sense". Nor I actually see it being universal even here. Disservice? I don't give shit, I'm not here to service anyone but myself.

Like I stated above...I would expect you don't give a shit...you are like the typical American. And just like the Americans you criticize, you also judge others, except it stems from strong ignorant ethnocentrism (I may have just described Russians in a nut shell).

Not to mention that after living here in America for a while I became VERY skeptical toward the "I would never do that" holier-than-thou talks. My experience shows that such promises are never kept here, and mostly stated just to "look good", making them completely meaningless. To make it crystal clear, I am absolutely sure that if you meet a right girl, her sexual past won't matter despite everything you wrote here.

(05-08-2011 12:33 PM)Luckystar Wrote:  

You are assuming they will tell you the truth if allow them. Reminds me of the saying - 'take a guys number and divide it by 2, take a girls number and multiply it by 3'.

They actually might tell me the truth in my case. Although I don't remember ever asking a single girl about their numbers. Why would I care? I am not that holier-than-thou type.

Probably easier not to care. Ignorance is bliss, as they say.

If I'm considering LTR, I think I'll ask. Mommy is not going to be on pornhub being gangbanged by five guys. Might work for you though, you are not 'holier than thou'.

[CrackerJack]

(05-08-2011 07:20 PM)oldnemesis Wrote:  

(05-08-2011 04:14 PM)rozayINTL Wrote:  

A key that can open up a lot of locks, that's one hell of a key.

This is true if you own the key. But this is not that great if you own the lock. See?

A key that opens a lot of locks is called a 'master key', a lock that's open by a lot of keys is called a weak lock (ie. slut). Can't remember where I've heard it.

[rozayINTL]

Yeah exactly. I can't remember either but its true.

[oldnemesis]

(05-09-2011 05:04 PM)CrackerJack Wrote:  

A key that opens a lot of locks is called a 'master key', a lock that's open by a lot of keys is called a weak lock (ie. slut).

That's a wrong analogy. Master key opens those locks because the LOCKS were especially designed to be opened with it, not because it has some special value.

[oldnemesis]

(05-08-2011 09:22 PM)Luckystar Wrote:  

agree...we have too many guys taking minimum wage jobs. Having said that, you can create DHV without having anything tangible. Remember, we are talking 'perceived value' not actual value.
There are guys with little value outside of their game who are in LTRs with quality women.

In my opinion you cannot create the fake higher value in LTR which would stand. It works well for one night stands or fuck buddies, but not in the LTR. You live together for a few weeks, and you know each other true value pretty well. If you know any specific example, I'd like to read about it.

Quote:

Like I stated above...I would expect you don't give a shit...you are like the typical American.

Looking right here I'd say a typical American does give shit.

Quote:

Probably easier not to care. Ignorance is bliss, as they say.

I wonder if you care if she ever ate a raw steak, or you're just ignorant about it?

Quote:

If I'm considering LTR, I think I'll ask. Mommy is not going to be on pornhub being gangbanged by five guys.

Don't you think this is a little different from just having a threesome?

[Moma]

@old nemesis:

My dear e-comrade, you are trying to get blood from a stone. I doubt you will be able to change these guys minds to see your perspective.
Perhaps when they settle down to an LTR with a woman who was a virgin until she met them and then proceeds to fcuk them over in the course of the relationship, they may broaden their nets a little bit.

I too was and still am guilty of the mindset (to a certain degree) but living in Europe and associating with women from countries where fcuking was a norm enabled me to broaden my perspective and begin the process of self healing.
I myself, understand your perspective fully as I have had the fortune of living in Europe and I now live in North America so I can see both sides of the coin.

The North American perspective can be glaringly contradicting in certain aspects. However, I guess that with every liberty, there must be a price to balance things out.
However, there is reality and there is fantasy.

I believe the whole context of dismissing a woman's value based on whether she had a threesome seems a bit ridiculous. However, sex is still seen as a dirty thing in Anglicized countries (blame the repressed Brits) and so even when guys get to fcuk as much as they want, they still see women subconsciously as lower value due to the fact that they are able to freely deposit in them.

What I would be interested in is analysing a culture where female promiscuity is not a taboo (that would rule out any English speaking country)

However, from a nature standpoint, I do see where some of the guys are coming from. I don't believe nature has designed a woman to be as promiscuous as a male.

I can't remember the exact reasons, I read it somewhere. However, if you look at women who fcuk a lot of guys and guys who fcuk a lot of women, the women who fcuk a lot of guys are usually a wreck (especially emotionally) with some form of self hate and some element of misandry present.

Speak to prostitutes, female pornstars, etc. They will often have some weird chip on their shoulder and some distrust of men whereas the guys who fcuk a lot of women will often be very loving towards women.

I have rarely seen a man who sexes a lot of females and hates them. The more women I fcuk, the more I love women because it just improves my understanding of them. However that is what happens with a logical being. Women (and my female friends have admitted this) are not logical so if they decide to partake in acts of being cum receptacles, it will play with their emotional state and harvest bitter feelings towards the creatures that are putting them through that rollercoaster.

As I insist, nature (God) whoever you choose to believe, doesn't make mistakes. These are all part of the grand design. Women can try and compete with men but they will lose.
I can go through a marathon with almost any female where we both get unlimited access to all the sexual partners we desire and I bet before we even get through the year, the female will be sitting somewhere feeling reayulll miserable.

[Yams]

Roissy had a similar post about this discussion:

http://roissy.wordpress.com/2010/09/16/w...bad-wives/

"It is only women who have more than one intimate premarital relationship who have an elevated risk of marital disruption."

This reminds me of something I heard an old guy say, if you are going to be with someone for the long haul then make sure they love you more than you love them.

[Luckystar]

(05-10-2011 09:35 AM)Moma Wrote:  

I have rarely seen a man who sexes a lot of females and hates them.

Guys don't hate women, but most guys I know, lose respect for women with more sexual exploits.

[Luckystar]

(05-09-2011 06:09 PM)oldnemesis Wrote:  

Quote:

If I'm considering LTR, I think I'll ask. Mommy is not going to be on pornhub being gangbanged by five guys.

Don't you think this is a little different from just having a threesome?

The only thing different is that the 'holier than thou' line has been moved.

[oldnemesis]

(05-10-2011 02:20 PM)Luckystar Wrote:  

The only thing different is that the 'holier than thou' line has been moved.

You missed the major point - there were two issues discussed. The first was "it is ok for me to have a threesome but not for her" and the second was "having a threesome with someone else - a whore; having threesome with me - hot girl". Both are typical cases for hypocrisy. Your example doesn't fit here at all.

Speaking about that, I'm really interested to hear how you gonna make sure (and made sure, assuming you had LTR) that your girl is NOT on pornhub if it is such a major dealbreaker for you?

[Gmac]

I don't really care if a girl has been with 1 guy or 1000 guys as long as she's clean. She could have had 50 guys bukakke all over her all at once and I would still hit it, but maybe that's just me. Haters.

[CrackerJack]

(05-09-2011 06:00 PM)oldnemesis Wrote:  

(05-09-2011 05:04 PM)CrackerJack Wrote:  

A key that opens a lot of locks is called a 'master key', a lock that's open by a lot of keys is called a weak lock (ie. slut).

That's a wrong analogy. Master key opens those locks because the LOCKS were especially designed to be opened with it, not because it has some special value.

You're getting hanged up on the details and missing the point. Just like saying 'live by the sword, die by the sword' is a wrong analogy because the dude got pierced by an arrow.

Think of a safe that can't be opened by a ghetto gangsta and a crowbar, but by a skilled craftsman with Bergeon watchmaking tools, stethoscope, steady hand, and a bit of time. If the craftsman opened my lock I wouldn't necessarily called it weak, but actually praise the dude for his skill.

To me it is similar with women that I invest my time with. Call me old fashioned, but when I hit the road I like my assets well protected from any swinging dick passing by.

Of course, this does not apply to FBs and ONSs. Couldn't care less.

[oldnemesis]

(05-10-2011 09:35 AM)Moma Wrote:  

However, sex is still seen as a dirty thing in Anglicized countries (blame the repressed Brits) and so even when guys get to fcuk as much as they want, they still see women subconsciously as lower value due to the fact that they are able to freely deposit in them.

Interesting. Basically this means the guys here actually value things like bitch shields, resistance and unwillingness to try new things.

Quote:

What I would be interested in is analysing a culture where female promiscuity is not a taboo (that would rule out any English speaking country)

Scandinavian countries should be a good starting point imho.

Quote:

However, from a nature standpoint, I do see where some of the guys are coming from. I don't believe nature has designed a woman to be as promiscuous as a male.

It depends how we define promiscuous. The nature definitely not did not make a female to be monogamous (i.e. only have sex with one partner). At the same time she must be selective with who she has sex with because of pregnancy probability. Let's say it this way - the nature made a female to be promiscuous among alpha males in general. Now, there are some periods when a female would fuck pretty much any male (dogs have it, for example) and if there are no alpha males around, she'd fuck a beta male, or maybe more than one as well.

Quote:

I can't remember the exact reasons, I read it somewhere. However, if you look at women who fcuk a lot of guys and guys who fcuk a lot of women, the women who fcuk a lot of guys are usually a wreck (especially emotionally) with some form of self hate and some element of misandry present.

This may be because of cultural influence, and the associated guilt so she thinks she's doing something wrong. Especially in hypocritical America I cannot imagine a young chick who would actually stand up and say it loudly - yes, I enjoy sex with a lot of dudes. She'd immediately be labeled a whore and low-class by her peers. Not surprisingly, a lot of those peers who'd label her would be doing the same, they just wouldn't have any guts to stand up for it.

However things change when people get older. I'd say after 45 or so women here in US become much more open-minded. They never give you the "how could you say THAT" vibe, and their fear of doing something not approved by society pretty much disappears.

Personally I talked to a lot of such women who fuck a lot of guys, swinger parties are full of them. None of them is a wreck. Indeed, they're pretty secured they do what is right. And if you're sure that you are right and can stand up for it, you cannot be a wreck.

Quote:

Women can try and compete with men but they will lose.
I can go through a marathon with almost any female where we both get unlimited access to all the sexual partners we desire and I bet before we even get through the year, the female will be sitting somewhere feeling reayulll miserable.

Same works the opposite way. She spends a day dealing with a sick infant, she'll be just a little tired. You spend a day dealing with a sick infant, you'll get suicide thoughts

[oldnemesis]

(05-10-2011 07:20 PM)CrackerJack Wrote:  

Think of a safe that can't be opened by a ghetto gangsta and a crowbar, but by a skilled craftsman with Bergeon watchmaking tools, stethoscope, steady hand, and a bit of time. If the craftsman opened my lock I wouldn't necessarily called it weak, but actually praise the dude for his skill.

The problem with your analogy is that the safe is an item which has no brain. It cannot open easily for ghetto gangsta, but pull much more resistance (or refuse to open at all) for a skilled craftsman. A regular woman can do it easily. This is where your analogy fails.

Quote:

To me it is similar with women that I invest my time with. Call me old fashioned, but when I hit the road I like my assets well protected from any swinging dick passing by.

Sure, any woman can do it. If you're dealing with American chick, just approach as a "nice guy", bring her on an expensive dinner date and bring a ring. I pretty much guarantee you'll invest a lot of time into her before you get laid. And she'll never tell you she used to put out on the first date with ghetto gangstas jumping right into gangbang after smoking some crack.

Remember, a woman will be as "good" as you let her. If you tell her you are not the kind of guy who expects to get laid fast, and understand it takes time and effort from your side, you'll get it as a gift for your 50th birthday. If she thinks she doesn't risk anything by not putting out right now, she will never do.

[CrackerJack]

(05-10-2011 10:31 PM)oldnemesis Wrote:  

(05-10-2011 07:20 PM)CrackerJack Wrote:  

Think of a safe that can't be opened by a ghetto gangsta and a crowbar, but by a skilled craftsman with Bergeon watchmaking tools, stethoscope, steady hand, and a bit of time. If the craftsman opened my lock I wouldn't necessarily called it weak, but actually praise the dude for his skill.

The problem with your analogy is that the safe is an item which has no brain. It cannot open easily for ghetto gangsta, but pull much more resistance (or refuse to open at all) for a skilled craftsman. A regular woman can do it easily. This is where your analogy fails.

Quote:

To me it is similar with women that I invest my time with. Call me old fashioned, but when I hit the road I like my assets well protected from any swinging dick passing by.

Sure, any woman can do it. If you're dealing with American chick, just approach as a "nice guy", bring her on an expensive dinner date and bring a ring. I pretty much guarantee you'll invest a lot of time into her before you get laid. And she'll never tell you she used to put out on the first date with ghetto gangstas jumping right into gangbang after smoking some crack.

Remember, a woman will be as "good" as you let her. If you tell her you are not the kind of guy who expects to get laid fast, and understand it takes time and effort from your side, you'll get it as a gift for your 50th birthday. If she thinks she doesn't risk anything by not putting out right now, she will never do.

Women have brains? That can be argued. But both have their quirks that can be used to your advantage. That's were game comes in (do I really have to spell that out?).

You seem to jump to conclusions quickly. Old fashioned in this case doesn't mean 'wining and dining' before a lay. Investing time means to me developing feelings overtime and caring for that person. When I'm away I like to have little doubt that when I come back I wont be laughed at because the 'shipping and receiving' team decided to have a gang bang at my house.

I'm not exactly sure what your position on this is. Are you saying that if I sleep around while away than I should be fine with my girl having gang bangs in the mean time? Hypocrite? Probably, but does that justify her for sleeping around while with me?

[Moma]

(05-12-2011 09:16 AM)CrackerJack Wrote:  

Are you saying that if I sleep around while away than I should be fine with my girl having gang bangs in the mean time? Hypocrite? Probably, but does that justify her for sleeping around while with me?

On a grand moral scheme, I believe so. If I were a judge and you came to court complaining that your wife slept around with Joe the Plumber and you had a mistress, I would dismiss that case faster than you could say blueberry pie.

What goes around, must come around in that case.

However, I am open to the view that on a biological level (and I am still struggling to rationalise that) that women should have a different mode of relationship operation from men.

Anytime I step out on a woman, I prep myself that I should be prepared that if I come back and catch her with another dude, I shouldn't get upset.

It's happened to me. I was with a woman for a bit, I stepped out on her with my regular side piece, hit that and came back to pound my regular.

She took a two week vacation to the Caribbean a few months down the line.
When she came back, I went through her digital camera while she was asleep and saw evidence of foul play.

However, I just smiled to myself as those are the cards I dealt. It seems from this forum, a lot of you guys will be in fury if you ever found that out. For me, it's all part of a learning process. She also volunteered (without my asking) that she was in the Caribbean for an entire two weeks and hadn't had sex.

[CrackerJack]

(05-12-2011 09:29 AM)Moma Wrote:  

(05-12-2011 09:16 AM)CrackerJack Wrote:  

Are you saying that if I sleep around while away than I should be fine with my girl having gang bangs in the mean time? Hypocrite? Probably, but does that justify her for sleeping around while with me?

On a grand moral scheme, I believe so. If I were a judge and you came to court complaining that your wife slept around with Joe the Plumber and you had a mistress, I would dismiss that case faster than you could say blueberry pie.

Interesting, in that context, if I killed your dog would you come over and kill mine? Eye for an eye is pretty medieval and not necessarily the best solution even though revenge can be sweet. In the long run it often destroys people, even countries.

I do however think that women should be held to a different standard (I don't mean higher or lower, just different). Biologically we are not the same.

One of the reasons I like to travel and especially in Asia, where these sort of 'ideas' of being equal are laughed at. Like the concept of "mia noi" (in Thai, second wife) is quite common. Asian women after the age of 40 often expect the husband to have something on the side, as long as he doesn't rub it in her face or makes it a public spectacle.

[zanetti]

if she were my dream girl (looks, personality and behaviour) i wouldn't care

[Moma]

(05-12-2011 11:03 AM)CrackerJack Wrote:  

Interesting, in that context, if I killed your dog would you come over and kill mine? Eye for an eye is pretty medieval and not necessarily the best solution even though revenge can be sweet. In the long run it often destroys people, even countries.

For every action, there is a reaction. That is the law of nature. That is why the law is more lenient on someone who injures another in SELF defence.

That's like a muthafukka getting smacked in the face and he/she sits there soaking it up on some turn the other cheek bullshyt.

(05-12-2011 11:03 AM)CrackerJack Wrote:  

One of the reasons I like to travel and especially in Asia, where these sort of 'ideas' of being equal are laughed at. Like the concept of "mia noi" (in Thai, second wife) is quite common. Asian women after the age of 40 often expect the husband to have something on the side, as long as he doesn't rub it in her face or makes it a public spectacle.

A lot of guys like the Asian culture because it's seems to be beta. However, we are speaking about North America. With certain liberties, there comes certain restrictions.

I'm certain that quite a few of the sluts that you have banged have had other men on the side in the meantime. They may have even been possibly married for all you know.

How would you get all these notches if women retained a high sense of morals? You can't have your cake and eat it now..

[CrackerJack]

(05-12-2011 12:19 PM)Moma Wrote:  

(05-12-2011 11:03 AM)CrackerJack Wrote:  

Interesting, in that context, if I killed your dog would you come over and kill mine? Eye for an eye is pretty medieval and not necessarily the best solution even though revenge can be sweet. In the long run it often destroys people, even countries.

For every action, there is a reaction. That is the law of nature. That is why the law is more lenient on someone who injures another in SELF defence.

That's like a muthafukka getting smacked in the face and he/she sits there soaking it up on some turn the other cheek bullshyt.

(05-12-2011 11:03 AM)CrackerJack Wrote:  

One of the reasons I like to travel and especially in Asia, where these sort of 'ideas' of being equal are laughed at. Like the concept of "mia noi" (in Thai, second wife) is quite common. Asian women after the age of 40 often expect the husband to have something on the side, as long as he doesn't rub it in her face or makes it a public spectacle.

A lot of guys like the Asian culture because it's seems to be beta. However, we are speaking about North America. With certain liberties, there comes certain restrictions.

I'm certain that quite a few of the sluts that you have banged have had other men on the side in the meantime. They may have even been possibly married for all you know.

How would you get all these notches if women retained a high sense of morals? You can't have your cake and eat it now..

I'm not the 'turn the other cheek' type also, but it still doesn't make it right to do whatever I like because the other person does it too.

Asia being beta or not is one thing, but at least they know where to draw the line with all the 'we are all equal' and other politically correct BS.

I'm not particularly looking for a prude, and life would be pretty boring if all were, but for a marriage material or LTR, I definitely wouldn't pick a gang banger. Just like the ratio 80/20 applies for guys (20% of guys fuck 80% of girls), from my experience 80% of women are sluts to 20% of 'lesser' sluts.

[oldnemesis]

(05-12-2011 09:16 AM)CrackerJack Wrote:  

Women have brains? That can be argued. But both have their quirks that can be used to your advantage. That's were game comes in (do I really have to spell that out?).

So what is your point? I didn't get it.

Quote:

I'm not exactly sure what your position on this is. Are you saying that if I sleep around while away than I should be fine with my girl having gang bangs in the mean time?

Exactly.

[oldnemesis]

(05-12-2011 02:44 PM)CrackerJack Wrote:  

I'm not particularly looking for a prude, and life would be pretty boring if all were, but for a marriage material or LTR, I definitely wouldn't pick a gang banger.

As I have said, you'll face two obvious questions:

- What if all relationship quality "non gang bangers" would not pick you for LTRs? After all, they may have their own expectations, and assuming those girls are conservative enough to avoid threesomes completely, they just might not want to get into LTR with someone who fucked hundreds of girls. It isn't just your choice, you know.

- How'd you know if she ever had a gang banger? AFAIR there is no "gang bang registry", so even if she did, it would be easy to conceal this fact from you. And with your position you're basically expecting every one of them to lie to you.

(05-12-2011 02:44 PM)CrackerJack Wrote:  

One of the reasons I like to travel and especially in Asia, where these sort of 'ideas' of being equal are laughed at. Like the concept of "mia noi" (in Thai, second wife) is quite common. Asian women after the age of 40 often expect the husband to have something on the side, as long as he doesn't rub it in her face or makes it a public spectacle.

It happens not only in Asia, but also in Russia and South America. But in all those cases the dude has much higher value than his spouse (typically because he has much more money). If your true value is much higher than your girl's value, you can have it too.

[wolf]

You got to see where the person is coming from. Guys have different expectations. On some level I agree with Moma and Oldnemesis(having a swinger friend).

I might be the biggest hypocrite here since I want a virgin gf that never talks to any guys at all and avoids guys at all costs. But in reality she fucks me, probably some other guy on the side and has at least two orbiters that are ready to marry them at a moment's notice or have already mentioned the idea to her and she's keeping them on standby.

Enjoy the moment and when you are ready to settle down pick the best one at the moment.