[Aros]

The attack on Charlie Hebdo is over, the gunmen are shot dead and I have lost the will to discuss the terror/islam situation in Europe, at least for now.

However I find the next week cover for Charlie Hebdo very uplifting, and I can understand it fits the spirit of the killed cartoonists.

The translation reads: “Urgent: hiring 6 new cartoonists”
   

I much rather have a discussion about satire and how we deal with it in the future. I'm unsure where I stand on the matter, on one side I would support even more provocative cartoons and mock "the other team" for their cowardly ways. On the other hand, our freedom of speech might be under attack, but it isn't threatened in a legal sense, and where is the fun in making great satire if the opposition doesn't have the tools to understand our point, or where we are coming from.

Should we be more thoughtful in our satire or should we be more provocative.

[Disco_Volante]

Well that depends.

Do you like western civilization?

Or do you want your freedoms to be slowly and violently eroded by barbarians from the Middleeast and Africa moving into your country and having its taxpayers subsidize these people who hate you.
I can't believe people are even debating this anymore, apparently they haven't learned their lesson of what Muslim immigration means.

[Plato]

I would go the whole way.

Every country in the western world should redesign their flags to include a crude cartoon of the prophet Mohammed.

[Que enspastic]

Street artists around the world should put up Mohammed images on all the walls of their city

[Que enspastic]

I'd do a pic of Mohammed with a pen drawing himself while erasing terrorists with his other hand

[John Michael Kane]

Well-played to show no fear and to mock the cowards who carried out the attack. Perhaps Europe is finding its long-lost balls.

[Aros]

(01-09-2015 05:06 PM)Disco_Volante Wrote:  

Well that depends.

Do you like western civilization?

Or do you want your freedoms to be slowly and violently eroded by barbarians from the Middleeast and Africa moving into your country and having its taxpayers subsidize these people who hate you.
I can't believe people are even debating this anymore, apparently they haven't learned their lesson of what Muslim immigration means.

I actually care about my heritage, my culture, my history, that is why I take a stand against cultural marxism. When I look at what the Arabic people bring to the table besides shish kebab and allah, I see people who stick to their traditional values, and I can respect that. From my point of view the problem with the west isn't so much arabs but cultural marxist and feminists who promote victimhood and a very strict political correctness.

As long as people keep their religious beliefs to them self, I don't give a hoot, but if the idiot doesn't get the joke, what is the point of making it. Don't get me wrong, I want these assholes sucking cock in hell just as much as the next guy.

Maybe it is time to reevaluate the satire when it comes to religious fanatics?

[SamuelBRoberts]

"As long as people keep their religious beliefs to them self, I don't give a hoot, but if the idiot doesn't get the joke, what is the point of making it. Don't get me wrong, I want these assholes sucking cock in hell just as much as the next guy."

Oh, they get the joke.
Why do you think they're so pissed off?

[Aros]

(01-09-2015 05:40 PM)SamuelBRoberts Wrote:  

"As long as people keep their religious beliefs to them self, I don't give a hoot, but if the idiot doesn't get the joke, what is the point of making it. Don't get me wrong, I want these assholes sucking cock in hell just as much as the next guy."

Oh, they get the joke.
Why do you think they're so pissed off?

Okay, they get the joke, but they can't take it. Let me rephrase that:

What is the point if he can't take the joke.

I mean, you wouldn't provoke a member of Hells Angles, just because you have a really good joke about his motorcycle and you have the right to say so, maybe you would approach him differently. Again, the original mohammed drawings originated from my country, and I am proud of that, but I am unsure whether more provocative satire would solve more problems than it will create.

[Jura]

^^ I don't think that's the real cover page for next week. From what I read and saw, it's from a popular satirical French news show.

[Aros]

(01-09-2015 05:55 PM)Jura Wrote:  

^^ I don't think that's the real cover page for next week. From what I read and saw, it's from a popular satirical French news show.

Oh, maybe I jumped the gun on this one.

[SamuelBRoberts]

Perhaps it would be best to look at this from another angle.

Every year Return of Kings runs Fat Shaming week, and overweight women everywhere get upset. Death threats are, I'm given to understand, quite common. Let's say somebody acted on one of them. Let's say one particularly fat woman shot Tuthmosis and Matt Forney because she didn't like the word "landwhale".

Would you tell everybody that RoK needs to stop Fat Shaming week, because what's the point of satire if they can't take a joke?

[Jura]

(01-09-2015 05:57 PM)Aros Wrote:  

(01-09-2015 05:55 PM)Jura Wrote:  

^^ I don't think that's the real cover page for next week. From what I read and saw, it's from a popular satirical French news show.

Oh, maybe I jumped the gun on this one.

Wouldn't be surprised if they came up with something similar or even more shocking/funny.

[tuffgong]

Whoops never mind.

[Aros]

(01-09-2015 06:00 PM)SamuelBRoberts Wrote:  

Perhaps it would be best to look at this from another angle.

Every year Return of Kings runs Fat Shaming week, and overweight women everywhere get upset. Death threats are, I'm given to understand, quite common. Let's say somebody acted on one of them. Let's say one particularly fat woman shot Tuthmosis and Matt Forney because she didn't like the word "landwhale".

Would you tell everybody that RoK needs to stop Fat Shaming week, because what's the point of satire if they can't take a joke?

I am not telling anyone anything, I am talking about reevaluating. If Fat Shaming Week would create more landwhales, because more women would became sad and begin compulsive eating, wouldn't it be time to look at it from another angle?

[Aros]

deleted - quoted instead of edited

[Feisbook Control]

The cover should mock the crowd of Quislings who say "I believe in freedom of speech, but..."

[TheWastelander]

I support them doing this, but I am concerned because freedom of speech is meaningless if you can't protect yourself from the assholes trying to shut you up.

Words aren't very effective against AK-47s. Every French cop should be armed and these journalists should have the right to carry personal weapons.

[Paracelsus]

(01-09-2015 06:09 PM)Aros Wrote:  

(01-09-2015 06:00 PM)SamuelBRoberts Wrote:  

Perhaps it would be best to look at this from another angle.

Every year Return of Kings runs Fat Shaming week, and overweight women everywhere get upset. Death threats are, I'm given to understand, quite common. Let's say somebody acted on one of them. Let's say one particularly fat woman shot Tuthmosis and Matt Forney because she didn't like the word "landwhale".

Would you tell everybody that RoK needs to stop Fat Shaming week, because what's the point of satire if they can't take a joke?

I am not telling anyone anything, I am talking about reevaluating. If Fat Shaming Week would create more landwhales, because more women would became sad and begin compulsive eating, wouldn't it be time to look at it from another angle?

Not necessarily, if concordantly there are a group of landwhales who look at it, get the mental equivalent of a dash of water to the face, and start to re-evaluate their lives. Or it emboldens men to openly criticise a landwhale for her self-destructive behaviour, which is arguably just as important.

Some religious doctrines deserve to be attacked, and a death penalty for drawing a picture of a long-dead prophet is one of them. There's plenty of examples of old, "traditional" cultures that have brutal practices which no Red Pill man would countenance in the modern world. The Incan civilisation was patriarchal and sacrificed children. Not everything from the past needs to be preserved.

[Pride male]

The pen is mightier than the sword. Or in this case the keyboard is mightier than the machine gun.

[Days of Broken Arrows]

What happens if they (or anyone) satirize the Holocaust or Anne Frank? What if we write a really good satirical fiction piece on how the Holocaust didn't happen?

While there wouldn't be bombings, there would be a call to shut down their paper because of "hate speech" or "hate crimes." Reputations would be ruined and the satirists would be unemployable. And that's just in America. In parts of Europe, people get imprisoned for that.

So, we're kidding ourselves doing all this chest-thumping regarding Muslims and Mohammad. Until we can satirize everyone freely, without the threat of imprisonment or unemployment, we don't really have freedom of speech.

Muslims extremists aren't the sole problem, as both the left and right wing would have you believe. They're a violent piece of the problem Europe and America created by enacting intolerant laws about what you can and can't say.

[Paracelsus]

(01-10-2015 03:27 AM)Days of Broken Arrows Wrote:  

What happens if they (or anyone) satirize the Holocaust or Anne Frank? What if we write a really good satirical fiction piece on how the Holocaust didn't happen?

While there wouldn't be bombings, there would be a call to shut down their paper because of "hate speech" or "hate crimes." Reputations would be ruined and the satirists would be unemployable. And that's just in America. In parts of Europe, people get imprisoned for that.

Still, take a look at South Park - Parker and Stone are relatively cowardly satirists, but they've managed to insult just about every minority group in existence -- the net result of which has been the slow degrading of their show because they're running out of gags, not the two of them being gunned down at the writing desk.

[BortimusPrime]

(01-10-2015 05:20 AM)Paracelsus Wrote:  

(01-10-2015 03:27 AM)Days of Broken Arrows Wrote:  

What happens if they (or anyone) satirize the Holocaust or Anne Frank? What if we write a really good satirical fiction piece on how the Holocaust didn't happen?

While there wouldn't be bombings, there would be a call to shut down their paper because of "hate speech" or "hate crimes." Reputations would be ruined and the satirists would be unemployable. And that's just in America. In parts of Europe, people get imprisoned for that.

Still, take a look at South Park - Parker and Stone are relatively cowardly satirists, but they've managed to insult just about every minority group in existence -- the net result of which has been the slow degrading of their show because they're running out of gags, not the two of them being gunned down at the writing desk.

Eh, South Park has never really targeted minorities in any meaningful sense. It's almost always satirizing racist stereotypes rather than making fun of the group itself. A telling example was the Nagger episode where the only people going after Randy are white anti-racists and Jesse Jackson, and the valuable lesson that Stan learns in the end is that he "doesn't get it" after all his attempts to make things right with Token, i.e. that no matter what Stan says or does Token never has to get over or absolve Stan of his eternal stain of white privilege.

I imagine if they had made fun of blacks screaming racism at the drop of a hat, they would have been in some pretty deep shit.

[Paracelsus]

(01-10-2015 05:46 AM)BortimusPrime Wrote:  

(01-10-2015 05:20 AM)Paracelsus Wrote:  

(01-10-2015 03:27 AM)Days of Broken Arrows Wrote:  

What happens if they (or anyone) satirize the Holocaust or Anne Frank? What if we write a really good satirical fiction piece on how the Holocaust didn't happen?

While there wouldn't be bombings, there would be a call to shut down their paper because of "hate speech" or "hate crimes." Reputations would be ruined and the satirists would be unemployable. And that's just in America. In parts of Europe, people get imprisoned for that.

Still, take a look at South Park - Parker and Stone are relatively cowardly satirists, but they've managed to insult just about every minority group in existence -- the net result of which has been the slow degrading of their show because they're running out of gags, not the two of them being gunned down at the writing desk.

Eh, South Park has never really targeted minorities in any meaningful sense. It's almost always satirizing racist stereotypes rather than making fun of the group itself. A telling example was the Nagger episode where the only people going after Randy are white anti-racists and Jesse Jackson, and the valuable lesson that Stan learns in the end is that he "doesn't get it" after all his attempts to make things right with Token, i.e. that no matter what Stan says or does Token never has to get over or absolve Stan of his eternal stain of white privilege.

I imagine if they had made fun of blacks screaming racism at the drop of a hat, they would have been in some pretty deep shit.

Fair point; carry on.

[Saweeep]

(01-10-2015 03:27 AM)Days of Broken Arrows Wrote:  

What happens if they (or anyone) satirize the Holocaust or Anne Frank? What if we write a really good satirical fiction piece on how the Holocaust didn't happen?

While there wouldn't be bombings, there would be a call to shut down their paper because of "hate speech" or "hate crimes." Reputations would be ruined and the satirists would be unemployable. And that's just in America. In parts of Europe, people get imprisoned for that.

So, we're kidding ourselves doing all this chest-thumping regarding Muslims and Mohammad. Until we can satirize everyone freely, without the threat of imprisonment or unemployment, we don't really have freedom of speech.

Muslims extremists aren't the sole problem, as both the left and right wing would have you believe. They're a violent piece of the problem Europe and America created by enacting intolerant laws about what you can and can't say.

My gut feeling is that most of the professionally offended wouldn't give a fuck.

They have some weird issue with Jews.