[robreke]

I did two approaches at the bookstore today on much youger girls in their 20s. Just asking them about their books.

Both just offered answers to my questions. The first one kept shopping looking at her book after answering my questions and the other girl who was sitting and reading gave me eye contact and smile...but would kind of return to reading her book like she wanted to read and be left alone. I had to keep saying things to her to get her to look back at me and continue to talk. Finally...with no input from her....I ran out of things to say.

first girl was a 7...the one reading an 8..

When girls are being polite but short like this and you can just feel their apprehensiveness....without them giving any thing back other than short yet polite answers then returning to what they were doing...whats a guy to do?

Do you just keep babbling about her book or books youve read? Do you start asking her questions and jusy keep talking until you get a fuck off vibe? Or do you take hint and eject?

im at a low point in my daygame results and need inspiration. Im approaching but the women arent giving me much back so im ejecting....perhaps too early ....I dont know.

[HighSpeed_LowDrag]

All you can offer them is an opportunity to engage with you.

If you're putting a good faith effort in and they're not giving you anything back, there's no reason to feel disappointed in ejecting. You did what you could.

Hence why, like with everything else in gaming chicks, it's a function of how often and how many you open. More input - more output.

Just keep approaching - and you'll get to the upside soon enough.

HSLD

[ChrisPitts]

I get the impression that you may have been too serious with your approach, sticking with straight question/answer style without any sort of banter or teasing thrown in. One of the things I do to make sure a conversation becomes fun from the start (and hence, attractive) is to ask a question, get her answer, and then find some way to give a tease about it, start bantering, or even launch into a cold read. For example, if she ask what she's reading, and she holds up 50 Shades of Gray or something gay like that, you can tease her about being a bad girl, tell her your mom warned you about girls like her, just basically find any reason to lightly bust her and get some smiles going. Once she sees that you are fun and attractive, she should open up more and start meeting you halfway in providing the conversation.

[XXL]

You have to LEAD the conversation and interaction in general [90/10 rule]. You're not there to talk about books. You're there for the girl. Change topics to engage her.

But..

Some girls are too surprised to even talk normally. Then you can tell "sorry I didn't mean to scare you.. if I come off to strong just tell me to back off I won't be offended"

Some are just shy. Then you can tell "are you ok? you seem shy I know what it's like, sometimes I get so anxious I literally don't know what to do"

Some simply don't want to talk. Then you can tell "did I interrupt something important? if you don't want to talk just shoo me away it's fine, I don't want to be pushy".

So judge the situation and adjust accordingly. It's not a rocket science. It's just having a random casual conversation. It should not be a big thing. Just be considerate enough to make them more comfortable.

[robreke]

(01-03-2015 05:00 PM)XXL Wrote:  

You have to LEAD the conversation and interaction in general [90/10 rule]. You're not there to talk about books. You're there for the girl. Change topics to engage her.

But..

Some girls are too surprised to even talk normally. Then you can tell "sorry I didn't mean to scare you.. if I come off to strong just tell me to back off I won't be offended"

Some are just shy. Then you can tell "are you ok? you seem shy I know what it's like, sometimes I get so anxious I literally don't know what to do"

Some simply don't want to talk. Then you can tell "did I interrupt something important? if you don't want to talk just shoo me away it's fine, I don't want to be pushy".

So judge the situation and adjust accordingly. It's not a rocket science. It's just having a random casual conversation. It should not be a big thing. Just be considerate enough to make them more comfortable.

I will try this....that is, if they seem apprehensive asking them if they want me to go in a polite way. I kind of get the impression that girls in my area are just so polite and women by nature are more covert than overt....that they won't say "yeah I wish you would go away"....or some such when offered. Like that second girl sitting...after a few lines back and forth....as I was looking to continue the convo and prevent her from burying her face in her book again...I said something like "sorry to get you in the middle of reading by the way" kind of jokingly and she said something like "it's okay" or "that's okay" So I kept on for a bit longer.

Also...I now remember the first girl who was standing.. who was buying an Ipad book for her grandma....mentioned her "6 year old niece" twice. Perhaps she was dropping bait....I at least should have jumped on that as I have a niece a similar age.

Just wish young girls weren't so easy to scare and shitty initial conversationalists ( when first opening them) They are indeed "cats that are easy to spook" Not belly aching here....just venting a tad and re stating what we all know. haha.

It's so much easier when a girl will banter back with you at first.

I also need to do better with leading and my positive male energy. It's just in the quiet of a bookstore...I felt more timid I guess. Gotta crush that.

[Travesty]

(01-03-2015 05:36 PM)robreke Wrote:  

Just wish young girls weren't so easy to scare and shitty initial conversationalists ( when first opening them) They are indeed "cats that are easy to spook" Not belly aching here....just venting a tad and re stating what we all know. haha.

First, this will never change for many young girls especially when there is a large age gap you need to prove your case on why they should open up to you. Good on you to keep digging to find an opening to warm them up because that is what it takes!

You're fighting an uphill battle being 40+ in America doing this.

I am 29 and get enthusiastic responses to day game including them easily giving out their number when I say we should hang out. No call backs most of the time.

I go for about 1 in 15 or 20 for girls 7+ 18-22yo to get an actual date. Getting a number maybe 1 in 2 or 1 in 3.

My average bang rate is 1 in 40.

Krauser states in the UK in London (best day game city in that country, only place in the US that could
match is Lower Manhattan) he bangs 1 in 50. Abroad he bangs 1 in 20.

Will you ever be as good as Krauser? Odds say no.

I don't know how many approaches you do, but for being in the U.S. with your age I'd be happy with 1 outta 70 maybe even 100 for a hot chick in 20s.

Moving away or approaching en masse are your best ways. Even if your vibe is tremendous you are playing against a stacked deck at your age unless you are one of the sharpest dressers out there with a bankroll in Lower Manhattan.

[robreke]

(01-03-2015 06:24 PM)Travesty444 Wrote:  

(01-03-2015 05:36 PM)robreke Wrote:  

Just wish young girls weren't so easy to scare and shitty initial conversationalists ( when first opening them) They are indeed "cats that are easy to spook" Not belly aching here....just venting a tad and re stating what we all know. haha.

First, this will never change for many young girls especially when there is a large age gap you need to prove your case on why they should open up to you. Good on you to keep digging to find an opening to warm them up because that is what it takes!

You're fighting an uphill battle being 40+ in America doing this.

I am 29 and get enthusiastic responses to day game including them easily giving out their number when I say we should hang out. No call backs most of the time.

I go for about 1 in 15 or 20 for girls 7+ 18-22yo to get an actual date. Getting a number maybe 1 in 2 or 1 in 3.

My average bang rate is 1 in 40.

Krauser states in the UK in London (best day game city in that country, only place in the US that could
match is Lower Manhattan) he bangs 1 in 50. Abroad he bangs 1 in 20.

Will you ever be as good as Krauser? Odds say no.

I don't know how many approaches you do, but for being in the U.S. with your age I'd be happy with 1 outta 70 maybe even 100 for a hot chick in 20s.

Moving away or approaching en masse are your best ways. Even if your vibe is tremendous you are playing against a stacked deck at your age unless you are one of the sharpest dressers out there with a bankroll in Lower Manhattan.

Although I'm a youngish looking guy....get pegged for 34 - 36 a lot...they definitely realize there's an age gap. Being slim and tall helps. I got a lot of numbers this year....but your lay to number getting ratio is about right (from daygame approaches)

I wish I'd have known about game at 29...damn, I'd have done good I'm sure as I used to get IOIs when I was in 20s and 30s a lot more ( who doesn't) but was such a gameless beta....that I missed out on tons of opportunities. I'm just thankful I eventually did learn the RP/game and doing the best I can.

You are correct about it being tougher when older but I try not to let this get into my head. I don't want to leak bad game because I have some kind of 'age complex' Also, as with anything in game and approaching....it really is a numbers game...on several levels when you're 40+ because as we all know a certain amount of young women are into older guys. Case in point...I approached an 18 year old recently and she was super friendly and nice whereas some college age girls who are several years older decide to pass.

As for travel...I'm hitting EE and or Colombia this year. I'm also considering an excursion or to NY where I'll suit up/ dress nice and be in a much much much more target rich environment. Another note is I live in pretty conservative southern state and I sense the DTF/slutty girls out and about are much fewer and far between here....though I have found a few.

[WestIndianArchie]

There's really not enough here to make a proper diagnosis.

- Seated girls are harder to pull that standing ones
- Cute girls, young girls, are 50/50's. You never know ahead of time if they're going to open
- what books they were reading, what they were wearing, how they were standing
- what you said EXACTLY
- how they responded verbally and non verbally

As to your main question, i'd say 90% of RVF is on some "if she don't bite immediately, I bounce" And since most cats are doing low density day game, it's not surprising that lots of guys will be frustrated. Expecting a chick to immediately open during the day time is sales copy"

WIA

(01-03-2015 03:38 PM)robreke Wrote:  

I did two approaches at the bookstore today on much youger girls in their 20s. Just asking them about their books.

Both just offered answers to my questions. The first one kept shopping looking at her book after answering my questions and the other girl who was sitting and reading gave me eye contact and smile...but would kind of return to reading her book like she wanted to read and be left alone. I had to keep saying things to her to get her to look back at me and continue to talk. Finally...with no input from her....I ran out of things to say.

first girl was a 7...the one reading an 8..

When girls are being polite but short like this and you can just feel their apprehensiveness....without them giving any thing back other than short yet polite answers then returning to what they were doing...whats a guy to do?

Do you just keep babbling about her book or books youve read? Do you start asking her questions and jusy keep talking until you get a fuck off vibe? Or do you take hint and eject?

im at a low point in my daygame results and need inspiration. Im approaching but the women arent giving me much back so im ejecting....perhaps too early ....I dont know.

[robreke]

(01-03-2015 08:01 PM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:  

There's really not enough here to make a proper diagnosis.

- Seated girls are harder to pull that standing ones
- Cute girls, young girls, are 50/50's. You never know ahead of time if they're going to open
- what books they were reading, what they were wearing, how they were standing
- what you said EXACTLY
- how they responded verbally and non verbally

As to your main question, i'd say 90% of RVF is on some "if she don't bite immediately, I bounce" And since most cats are doing low density day game, it's not surprising that lots of guys will be frustrated. Expecting a chick to immediately open during the day time is sales copy"

WIA

(01-03-2015 03:38 PM)robreke Wrote:  

I did two approaches at the bookstore today on much youger girls in their 20s. Just asking them about their books.

Both just offered answers to my questions. The first one kept shopping looking at her book after answering my questions and the other girl who was sitting and reading gave me eye contact and smile...but would kind of return to reading her book like she wanted to read and be left alone. I had to keep saying things to her to get her to look back at me and continue to talk. Finally...with no input from her....I ran out of things to say.

first girl was a 7...the one reading an 8..

When girls are being polite but short like this and you can just feel their apprehensiveness....without them giving any thing back other than short yet polite answers then returning to what they were doing...whats a guy to do?

Do you just keep babbling about her book or books youve read? Do you start asking her questions and jusy keep talking until you get a fuck off vibe? Or do you take hint and eject?

im at a low point in my daygame results and need inspiration. Im approaching but the women arent giving me much back so im ejecting....perhaps too early ....I dont know.

WIA....thanks..since I do want to get better and learn...here's the details.

First girl was wearing a baseball cap pulled down with a pony tail. She was cute and had a retainer in her lower teeth. Had on sandles and tight black pants and some collared short sleeve shirt.

She was about 23 -24. Looking at the computer how to books and standing. Earlier I had almost bumped into her as we rounded the corner and we kind of smiled at each other in another part of the store ( more smiling just being polite on a count of almost bumping into each other). she's tall about 5'8 with a medium build.

I walk beside her and pretend to look at a book for about a minute then
Me: Excuse me, is that a good book ( she was holding a few )
Her: This one?
Me- yeah the one on the Ipad.
her: I have no idea I haven't read it. I'm getting it for my grandma who just got an ipad.
she kind of started looking at books again.
Note---whenever she gave a response to me...even though they were short and she wouldn't verbally offer anything as far as progressing the conversation or asking questions AND her eye contact was on/off....she had a smile on her face when responding. A "teeth showing" smile. ( when a girl smiles when you're talking to her does it necessarily mean anything or is it just mostly common politeness?)
Me: Yeah...I asked because I'm trying to get ideas for my brother...he needs some how too technology books for some new things he got.
Her" My 6 year old niece will probably help my grandma with this ...my grandma doesn't know how to do anything.
Me> There's some good how to videos on youtube for the ipad.
Her: Oh...she doesn't know how to find youtube.
Me; are you going to help her any
Her: No...I'm too busy...my 6 year old niece can do that.
The whole time she'd look at me briefly and politely smile but quickly look back to scanning books.
Me: hmm, I was thinking of buying one of these 'how to for dummies' books for my brother as he's getting into graphic design. I heard they were a good series.
Her: I haven't read those.
Me: I read one on another subject...it's just the title can be a little condescending with the 'dummies' part.
Her: she smiles at that and nids then quickly goes back to scanning books.
At that point....I just couldn't think of anything besides interview type questions...so I stood there looking at my book I grabbed. We both stood next to each other another 30 or so seconds and she walked away. As she was standing there I was thinking 'well she's still standing her...say something!'

oh well...onto the 'seated girl'

I first spotted the seated girl walking around aimlessly looking for books and she finally went to the help employee and he started showing her around. I just waited on an aisle spying on her to stop and start looking at books. They actually came to my aisle and I pretended to read a book as they stood there but she obviously saw me. About 8 minutes later....I spotted her sitting down in another part of the store reading. I pretended to look at these cliff notes on a file rack ( the only thing by her) and she kind of looked up at me like she sensed I was hovering around which I didn't do but for a few seconds.

She's wearing a black long sleeve outfit with some kind of skirt and almost knee high black boots and has black hose or black skin tight exercise pants on. She's got long dark blonde hair. Anywhere from 18-22 years old. Tall and medium build ( I like girls with a little meat on them and not rail thin)

Me: Is that a good book?
Her - ( She said something like yes or maybe even yes sir...it was low) It is so far...I just started. she kind of opened it to show me and started to look down again
Me: I'm looking for a book for my cousin. she's coming into town for a late Christmas and I need some good ideas. Is it a good author?
Her: she held the book up.
Me...oh..it's Gilian Flynn I've heard of her.
Her- yeah she did gone Girl.
Me: I heard that was a good movie. Have you seen it?
Her: Yes.
Me. did you like it?
Her...it was good
She was giving short answers and looking up at me with a semi smile and nervous eye contact....but rather sustained eye contact. A few times...I held eye contact for several seconds and she continued to look. I'd ask my question or statement...she'd respond to the questions then, look back down to her book.
She looks down at her book and keeps reading.
Me after looking at the cliff notes another 15 seconds.
Me: Do you read the book before seeing the movie sometimes?
Her: yeah...sometimes.
Me...I do too. I always like the book better than the movies when I do that. I think it has to do with our minds being so much more creative and then the movie disappoints.
Her: yeah....our minds create the story.
Me: exactly.
after saying this with the same expression...she just goes back to reading. In retrospect...I guess I was a little lame in not dropping more bait for her to ask me anything as I was just making statements and asking her questions.
I continue to look at the cliff notes rack for about a minute and I am feeling awkward. She's reading her book with her hand against her head as if to block me out.
Me: Well, good luck with the book ...( as I walk off)
Her: Thank you.

that's it.

[Agreddor]

(01-03-2015 08:38 PM)robreke Wrote:  

(01-03-2015 08:01 PM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:  

There's really not enough here to make a proper diagnosis.

- Seated girls are harder to pull that standing ones
- Cute girls, young girls, are 50/50's. You never know ahead of time if they're going to open
- what books they were reading, what they were wearing, how they were standing
- what you said EXACTLY
- how they responded verbally and non verbally

As to your main question, i'd say 90% of RVF is on some "if she don't bite immediately, I bounce" And since most cats are doing low density day game, it's not surprising that lots of guys will be frustrated. Expecting a chick to immediately open during the day time is sales copy"

WIA

(01-03-2015 03:38 PM)robreke Wrote:  

I did two approaches at the bookstore today on much youger girls in their 20s. Just asking them about their books.

Both just offered answers to my questions. The first one kept shopping looking at her book after answering my questions and the other girl who was sitting and reading gave me eye contact and smile...but would kind of return to reading her book like she wanted to read and be left alone. I had to keep saying things to her to get her to look back at me and continue to talk. Finally...with no input from her....I ran out of things to say.

first girl was a 7...the one reading an 8..

When girls are being polite but short like this and you can just feel their apprehensiveness....without them giving any thing back other than short yet polite answers then returning to what they were doing...whats a guy to do?

Do you just keep babbling about her book or books youve read? Do you start asking her questions and jusy keep talking until you get a fuck off vibe? Or do you take hint and eject?

im at a low point in my daygame results and need inspiration. Im approaching but the women arent giving me much back so im ejecting....perhaps too early ....I dont know.

WIA....thanks..since I do want to get better and learn...here's the details.

First girl was wearing a baseball cap pulled down with a pony tail. She was cute and had a retainer in her lower teeth. Had on sandles and tight black pants and some collared short sleeve shirt.

She was about 23 -24. Looking at the computer how to books and standing. Earlier I had almost bumped into her as we rounded the corner and we kind of smiled at each other in another part of the store ( more smiling just being polite on a count of almost bumping into each other). she's tall about 5'8 with a medium build.

I walk beside her and pretend to look at a book for about a minute then
Me: Excuse me, is that a good book ( she was holding a few )
Her: This one?
Me- yeah the one on the Ipad.
her: I have no idea I haven't read it. I'm getting it for my grandma who just got an ipad.
she kind of started looking at books again.
Note---whenever she gave a response to me...even though they were short and she wouldn't verbally offer anything as far as progressing the conversation or asking questions AND her eye contact was on/off....she had a smile on her face when responding. A "teeth showing" smile. ( when a girl smiles when you're talking to her does it necessarily mean anything or is it just mostly common politeness?)
Me: Yeah...I asked because I'm trying to get ideas for my brother...he needs some how too technology books for some new things he got.
Her" My 6 year old niece will probably help my grandma with this ...my grandma doesn't know how to do anything.
Me> There's some good how to videos on youtube for the ipad.
Her: Oh...she doesn't know how to find youtube.
Me; are you going to help her any
Her: No...I'm too busy...my 6 year old niece can do that.
The whole time she'd look at me briefly and politely smile but quickly look back to scanning books.
Me: hmm, I was thinking of buying one of these 'how to for dummies' books for my brother as he's getting into graphic design. I heard they were a good series.
Her: I haven't read those.
Me: I read one on another subject...it's just the title can be a little condescending with the 'dummies' part.
Her: she smiles at that and nids then quickly goes back to scanning books.
At that point....I just couldn't think of anything besides interview type questions...so I stood there looking at my book I grabbed. We both stood next to each other another 30 or so seconds and she walked away. As she was standing there I was thinking 'well she's still standing her...say something!'

oh well...onto the 'seated girl'

I first spotted the seated girl walking around aimlessly looking for books and she finally went to the help employee and he started showing her around. I just waited on an aisle spying on her to stop and start looking at books. They actually came to my aisle and I pretended to read a book as they stood there but she obviously saw me. About 8 minutes later....I spotted her sitting down in another part of the store reading. I pretended to look at these cliff notes on a file rack ( the only thing by her) and she kind of looked up at me like she sensed I was hovering around which I didn't do but for a few seconds.

She's wearing a black long sleeve outfit with some kind of skirt and almost knee high black boots and has black hose or black skin tight exercise pants on. She's got long dark blonde hair. Anywhere from 18-22 years old. Tall and medium build ( I like girls with a little meat on them and not rail thin)

Me: Is that a good book?
Her - ( She said something like yes or maybe even yes sir...it was low) It is so far...I just started. she kind of opened it to show me and started to look down again
Me: I'm looking for a book for my cousin. she's coming into town for a late Christmas and I need some good ideas. Is it a good author?
Her: she held the book up.
Me...oh..it's Gilian Flynn I've heard of her.
Her- yeah she did gone Girl.
Me: I heard that was a good movie. Have you seen it?
Her: Yes.
Me. did you like it?
Her...it was good
She was giving short answers and looking up at me with a semi smile and nervous eye contact....but rather sustained eye contact. A few times...I held eye contact for several seconds and she continued to look. I'd ask my question or statement...she'd respond to the questions then, look back down to her book.
She looks down at her book and keeps reading.
Me after looking at the cliff notes another 15 seconds.
Me: Do you read the book before seeing the movie sometimes?
Her: yeah...sometimes.
Me...I do too. I always like the book better than the movies when I do that. I think it has to do with our minds being so much more creative and then the movie disappoints.
Her: yeah....our minds create the story.
Me: exactly.
after saying this with the same expression...she just goes back to reading. In retrospect...I guess I was a little lame in not dropping more bait for her to ask me anything as I was just making statements and asking her questions.
I continue to look at the cliff notes rack for about a minute and I am feeling awkward. She's reading her book with her hand against her head as if to block me out.
Me: Well, good luck with the book ...( as I walk off)
Her: Thank you.

that's it.

1st chick

I would have rambled on about the 6 year old kid and the iPad and how technology is causing social autism. If she resonates your sentiments, you'll know that she's not one of those girls who're constantly glued to their phones.

2nd chick

Wasn't receptive, Eject.

[XXL]

I read your detailed post. No bait would help you then. Those two conversations were all about some books and random stuff. There was no spark and no personal talk between you and the girls. They just felt nothing therefore they would not bite anything.

You have to show some interest in the girl you talk to so that she can feel something and take you more seriously than a random stranger asking her about something she will forget after a minute.

[robreke]

(01-04-2015 05:44 PM)XXL Wrote:  

I read your detailed post. No bait would help you then. Those two conversations were all about some books and random stuff. There was no spark and no personal talk between you and the girls. They just felt nothing therefore they would not bite anything.

You have to show some interest in the girl you talk to so that she can feel something and take you more seriously than a random stranger asking her about something she will forget after a minute.

I was trying to follow Roosh's daybang recipe for talking about the 'prop' , in this case the book before I got to more personal stuff. In following this recipe....they were losing interest in just the 'prop part' of the model.

Daybang says to talk about the prop for at least a few minutes so as to 'disarm the cat' Perhaps I'm sticking too strictly to the daygame model...

I take it you don't use Roosh's daybang approach model? You are more direct I take it? How would you have handled these situations?

[Sensei Creation]

What I've noticed by following Roosh's daygame model is that during your first few approaches , lizards will rarely bite on your bait .

I would advise you to switch to GALNUC as soon as you run out of gas . It's a cold read that often opens them up to talk about their origins . ( "No , I'm actually half spanish blah blah blah" ) from there you've successfully switched the subject to travelling and its a good oppertunity to offer a good travelling DHV .

Feel free to check out my approach thread where I describe successful instances of number closing with GALNUC before a personal question is used .

Of course if you want to minimize the chance of a flake , dropping as much bait and hoping for a bite before using GALNUC is ideal . But again , during your first few approaches your rambling skills probably won't be sharp enough to continue dropping bait endlessly with no bites. ( Mine still aren't )

Sidebar :

I get the impression that your approaches are lacking in spice , I had the same problem in the beginning, here's a post by XXL that helped my immensely with my approaches :

Credit to XXL :

Simple answer: flirting amplifies attraction. You have to learn how to flirt.

Fancy answer:
- Mix flirting with normal "get to know each other" chit chat. You can do it by putting those attraction spikes [push/pull, teases, misinterpretations, roleplays, etc] in between normal conversation. So technically it looks like this: chat chat chat spike! chat chat chat spike! chat chat chat spike! chat chat chat spike! etc etc...

- Use more statements and less questions. If you want to know where a girl studies instead of asking her tell her she looks like a science nerd [or something equally ridiculous]. She will deny and tell you what she studies. This is an emotional spike for her and it gets her to tell you what she really studies. Just be careful cause you might love this technique so much that you will catch yourself never asking any questions ever ; )

[XXL]

I'm not trying to be smart ass here i just show my school of thought. ok here's what i know..

fact #1: the best way to hook a girl's attention is to talk about her or something directly relevant to her. if you want to actually see it then next time you talk to a girl about random stuff, any girl can be the one you already know, start talking talking about her. her clothes or demeanor or smell or looks etc and watch how she instantly pays attention to what you say.

fact #2: prop talk about random item with a random stranger is too casual formal and whatever to engage that person and make enough impact on her to be willing to meet you. it's ok for breaking the ice to start a convo and get it going but no more than that. essentially it's only an excuse to talk to the girl. i say that cause i read a lot that people expect that talking about random item with a random girl for a couple minutes and dropping a bait after that should hook her attention. it's very 'cross your fingers and hope for ther best' type of hooking. if you want to open like that it's fine it opens but then you have to change topic and start flirting without waiting for any overt permission from the girl.

how would i talk to her. I'd probably switch from the book to her ["I'd never think you would like that kind of books"] or change topics saying completely unrelated stuff.

look up my post about "90/10 rule" and massive direct/indirect post where i wrote about how good indirect game looks like.

[robreke]

Thanks , I'll try that XXL. As a matter of fact, I already did on two approaches today....being more personal. I got further.

Do you remember which threads those posts you recommend are on? I did a search for "90/10 rule" and "direct/indirect" but no threads came up and when I did it with posts....a ton of thread options came up.

I did read some of the threads you published and liked those.

[Travesty]

XXL is right on the money.

In my experience daygaming young chicks the ranking order of what the best opener as far as what ends with the most numbers that lead to actual dates:

1) Something about her you notice and like or find interesting so she is talking about herself. This is the most spontaneous, authentic, and organic opener there really is that shows interest so no surprise it is the best if you can swing it.
2) Direct open ("thought you look cute", "that dress looks great on you", blah blah blah)
3) A prop she has
4) A prop she doesn't have that you try to force her attention on
5) Asking for directions, something about the location you're at, the time...

You notice this opener ranking list follows from:
Most Personable ----------------------------------> Least Personable

All these openers are to get her talking about herself and try to relate experiences so she thinks she is getting to know you quickly in the 5 to 15 minutes you usually have.

The props and dropping bait ala Roosh Day Bang is good for many situations where it is too awkward to go Direct and when you can't come up with a good opener about her personally (these take more on-the-spot creativity and also the most charm and smoothness to really pull off) and sometimes you have about 2 seconds to decide to approach.

Krauser lays out how he has trained himself to come up with quick cold read stories in his head in a matter of seconds with he sees a chick so he can approach with some personal material. He lays this out in Daygame Mastery which is a really great book.

[RawGod]

Volume and practice. You've gotten some feedback from a few approaches. Do it again and again, taking it a little further every time (not every single approach, but just keeping on learning and doing it again).

That's why I think you need to be a in big metropolis like all of the famous daygamers. You need to be able to approach every day, week after week without worrying about becoming well known or exhausting your potential targets.

[XXL]

Travesty444 nailed it here. I really like that ranking order.

The other thing I noticed about that list is that the most personable opener is the easiest one because usually it engages the other person in the conversation instantly. Girls just get curious. Some might think "dude why would she care about your opinion of her?". Well, I don't know why but they do care even when it comes from a stranger. And when she is one you talk about she pays attention to you [which is huge], she's more or less engaged, maybe just curious, whatever, good enough, but the overall vibe is good to flirt more.

Likewise, the least personable opener is the hardest one, at least for guys who view interaction linearly, cause then they have to transition from talking about some unrelated irrelevant thing to expressing their interest. That might be quite hard at times. It takes some creativity, thinking fast on your feet, conversational skills, etc, to carry it on, keep her attention and transition from blase blah blah to "me and you". You know, I mean how the hell to you switch from her laptop to her heart and soul? [Here's an example how].

The other point I forgot about is that asking about directions or talking about her stuff she carries for too long gets her into logical mode of thinking which is the opposite of what we want. So even if I start like that I quickly throw something flirty/edgy to break that pattern. I don't know about you guys but the last thing I want to do when I flirt with a chick is to see her thinking or analyzing what we do and talk about. I want her to have a good time with me.

Here's quick example of 2 versions of the same opener...
least personable: is that a good book?
most personable: why do you want to read that book?
See the difference? The emphasis is on why SHE wants to read THAT book. Essentially the second version cuts the initial small talk and GETS HER ATTENTION FAST so you can game while the first version takes more time to get that point of having her attention [if you're talkative enough to even get there].


Also most personable route puts the girl on the spot a bit so it gives you more options to take the convo in various directions. She's confused..
"is he accusing me and my taste?"
"is this book bad?"
"what does he mean 'why do *I* want to read it?' I don't look like I like reading books?"
"wtf?"
Whereas the answer to "is that a good book?" is usually short and like whatever so if you don't know how to come up with things to say out of thin air you're basically fucked.

Other example...
least personable: excuse me, do you know where the nearest church is?
most personable: excuse me, i'm looking for a church, you look like you pray a lot so you know, in which church priests are the most forgiving ones? you know that feeling when you have to get some shit off your chest...

In the end there is place and time for everything. If you prefer going less personable you gotta ramble like a pro to show your interest. If you want to skip a few steps then show interest asap by being curious about the girl in front of you.


@robreke

Turns our I already answered you in your other thread. How could you forget? I'm so hurt right now man Look... http://www.rooshvforum.network/thread-42...96190.html

[robreke]

(01-06-2015 06:32 AM)XXL Wrote:  

Travesty444 nailed it here. I really like that ranking order.

The other thing I noticed about that list is that the most personable opener is the easiest one because usually it engages the other person in the conversation instantly. Girls just get curious. Some might think "dude why would she care about your opinion of her?". Well, I don't know why but they do care even when it comes from a stranger. And when she is one you talk about she pays attention to you [which is huge], she's more or less engaged, maybe just curious, whatever, good enough, but the overall vibe is good to flirt more.

Likewise, the least personable opener is the hardest one, at least for guys who view interaction linearly, cause then they have to transition from talking about some unrelated irrelevant thing to expressing their interest. That might be quite hard at times. It takes some creativity, thinking fast on your feet, conversational skills, etc, to carry it on, keep her attention and transition from blase blah blah to "me and you". You know, I mean how the hell to you switch from her laptop to her heart and soul? [Here's an example how].

The other point I forgot about is that asking about directions or talking about her stuff she carries for too long gets her into logical mode of thinking which is the opposite of what we want. So even if I start like that I quickly throw something flirty/edgy to break that pattern. I don't know about you guys but the last thing I want to do when I flirt with a chick is to see her thinking or analyzing what we do and talk about. I want her to have a good time with me.

Here's quick example of 2 versions of the same opener...
least personable: is that a good book?
most personable: why do you want to read that book?
See the difference? The emphasis is on why SHE wants to read THAT book. Essentially the second version cuts the initial small talk and GETS HER ATTENTION FAST so you can game while the first version takes more time to get that point of having her attention [if you're talkative enough to even get there].


Also most personable route puts the girl on the spot a bit so it gives you more options to take the convo in various directions. She's confused..
"is he accusing me and my taste?"
"is this book bad?"
"what does he mean 'why do *I* want to read it?' I don't look like I like reading books?"
"wtf?"
Whereas the answer to "is that a good book?" is usually short and like whatever so if you don't know how to come up with things to say out of thin air you're basically fucked.

Other example...
least personable: excuse me, do you know where the nearest church is?
most personable: excuse me, i'm looking for a church, you look like you pray a lot so you know, in which church priests are the most forgiving ones? you know that feeling when you have to get some shit off your chest...

In the end there is place and time for everything. If you prefer going less personable you gotta ramble like a pro to show your interest. If you want to skip a few steps then show interest asap by being curious about the girl in front of you.


@robreke

Turns our I already answered you in your other thread. How could you forget? I'm so hurt right now man Look... http://www.rooshvforum.network/thread-42...96190.html

XXL,

I didn't forget that post bro...haha. I actually went back and read it after I sent you that last query....I'd just forgotten that you put the links in one of your posts there to the 'cool direct/indirect'.

I checked those out and they're great. I just need to internalize it.

I suppose with me, it's the conflict ( in daygame at least ) of trying not to "scare the cat" as Roosh says vs. getting her to talk /open about herself.

My mindset...perhaps incorrectly..is if I go from the open to something like " by the way, those are interesting shoes...are they Versace's".....or " by the way, you like athletic today....are you an exercise girl?" that she'd be thinking "he just went asking me about my prop to asking about my shoes or athletic outfit/body...." and it would send off her 'cat' alarm.

To elaborate - if one opens about the prop....even though it's logical, at least you're "in the conversation" and she's quite unawares....whereas, if you notice something about her and comment off the bat, it's almost akin to a direct opener and she's more likely to "flee" etc...not stay in the conversation as long. At least this has been my thinking. In retrospect, however, with my results....I am going to start right off....or very soon in the conversation switching about her.

There was this hot blonde I saw the next day looking at a book and I opened her with the 'is that a good book' deal actually as she was walking off he aisle.....in retrospect, considering she was wearing fuzzy interesting leather boots I'd never seen...I could have commented/inquired about them then made up some story about why I'm interested in her boots.

I think what's finally sinking in is you have to subtly switch or open with something about her. Obviously, scaring the cat is a chance we all take when practicing game.

[XXL]

(01-06-2015 10:42 AM)robreke Wrote:  

I suppose with me, it's the conflict ( in daygame at least ) of trying not to "scare the cat" as Roosh says vs. getting her to talk /open about herself.

I've never understood this "scaring the cat" thing. What do you mean you can scare a girl? I know she might be surprised a bit or she can struggle to say something. But scared? I've never scared a girl by asking her personal question or commenting something about her. Like when a girl hesitates between two dresses in a mall for example, when I'm near her and tell her to pick the red one over the blue one because xyz blablabla she won't be scared just because I didn't introduced myself first or I didn't ask her something random.

If she looks at me weird or freezes up I can always empathize with her saying "ooops sorry if I was too forward, I just thought that this one is much better, but ok I'm shutting up now no more PR advice from me today..". I prefer to make an impact and say sorry afterwards if necessary than to be ignored. Trying to be less awkward comes off exactly opposite.

Things like physically invading personal space out of the blue or being too over the top can scare girls for sure or weird them out. But that's what sociopaths do. When you're relaxed casual and well groomed they should not be taken aback.

(01-06-2015 10:42 AM)robreke Wrote:  

My mindset...perhaps incorrectly..is if I go from the open to something like " by the way, those are interesting shoes...are they Versace's".....or " by the way, you like athletic today....are you an exercise girl?" that she'd be thinking "he just went asking me about my prop to asking about my shoes or athletic outfit/body...." and it would send off her 'cat' alarm.

No, not really. If you treat it as a routine to execute you should make it seem very spontaneously. If you do it spontaneously for real like you ask or say it cause you noticed something it's fine. She won't get alarmed. It's natural to interrupt like that when something catches your attention. I cut girl's threads all the time. But I just do it naturally.

(01-06-2015 10:42 AM)robreke Wrote:  

To elaborate - if one opens about the prop....even though it's logical, at least you're "in the conversation" and she's quite unawares....whereas, if you notice something about her and comment off the bat, it's almost akin to a direct opener and she's more likely to "flee" etc...not stay in the conversation as long. At least this has been my thinking. In retrospect, however, with my results....I am going to start right off....or very soon in the conversation switching about her.

Let real life experience verify your dilemma.


This has gotten way too much detailed. In short just be interested in the girl you see. Notice how they react when they start to feel that you're actually interested in them. They just light up. The whole dynamic changes instantly. The sooner the better.

[Travesty]

robreke,

Pretty much as your game, confidence, swagger, and DGAF attitude goes up you will care less about scaring the cat. I had a 20yo the other week give me a shit test about my age after I showed interest then when I asked for her number she took mine instead and wouldn't let me have hers. Then she contacted me saying she was sorry she is awkward about compliments. She gave off a huge scared cat vibe which ended up really meaning she was attracted and taken aback.

Doing higher amounts of approaches with confidence and not caring about rejection is more important than worrying about scaring the cat.

As you move up in Game you will move up the approach style ranking because it is a natural progression in becoming a more natural player.

[memcpy]

If you're gonna run Roosh's day game, stick with it like I did and you will figure it out. It's gonna take you more than 50+ bookstore approaches to get a grasp of the dynamics going on.

I noticed that your talking about the books, which is good. But you should be trying to get off the topics of books. Either she will ask a personal question or you will steer the conversation off the topic of books. "By the way...you look like a student." Is one way I changed the subject or run galnuc. "By the way...you don't look like your from around here." Is another one I used.

Also your not lacing your book talk with anything interesting. "When I was in XYZ country, the bookstores were so .... ( make up something relating to travel or observations )

If she doesn't bite then I keep talking and throw out something later. It's easy for me because I've traveled to other countries and have lots to talk about and compare.

Just stick to the book.

Oh and you're bailing to soon. I've talked to brick walls who took a minute to get warmed up to me or just gave me one word answers. Some girls are just like that. As long as they are standing there then I am talking to them. I make an honest effort.

[xmlenigma]

Got a few like that

[robreke]

Travesty444 wrote: Doing higher amounts of approaches with confidence and not caring about rejection is more important than worrying about scaring the cat.

^ Good stuff.

[Dalaran1991]

I'm still having trouble discerning between polite/nice girls and attracted girls. Especially if you are daygaming at a social activity or community events the girls tend to be extra nice but that doesn't always mean she's interested.

So far the only way I have to circumvent this is to push for an instant date, failing that get a number. I don't even like getting numbers anymore. Girls give them to everyone and texting un-attracted girls is a waste of time.

Anyone wanna chime in?