[robreke]

(01-07-2015 01:45 PM)Dalaran1991 Wrote:  

I'm still having trouble discerning between polite/nice girls and attracted girls. Especially if you are daygaming at a social activity or community events the girls tend to be extra nice but that doesn't always mean she's interested.

So far the only way I have to circumvent this is to push for an instant date, failing that get a number. I don't even like getting numbers anymore. Girls give them to everyone and texting un-attracted girls is a waste of time.

Anyone wanna chime in?

I got a ton of numbers this year...but very few bangs from them. Honestly, I only got one bang from getting numbers in the day time.

My others came from tinder.

To break it down....here's how my numbers usually turn out.

1. Get the number - text the girl later that day it was nice to meet her. She texts me back something similar. Over the course of the next few days when I reach back out....she'll give one or two conciliatory texts...but they die off quick. No date. No bang. ( my most common )

2. Get the number - text the girl later that day that it was nice to meet her. She doesn't reply. No bang.

3. Get the number - text her back and forth a few days and line up a date. Meet for a date. Go on one or two dates...maybe a kiss. No further dates...no bang. Either because I decide she's not for me or vice versa.

The really attractive girls I got numbers from this year during the daytime fall into the first two categories. No date. I did get one good looking girls number during the daytime and ended up banging her over a 2 or so month period. Turned out she was a bit of a slut. So...maybe I need to move where there's more sluts. Ha.

I live in a semi- conservative quite cliquish part of the country so girls very much care about that social circle shit. Not to mention I only hit on young women and I'm an older man.

Upon reflection and reading many other guys' inputs...most recently XXL's contributions, I'm going to employ a different game while "in set" initially.

The times I've gotten dates and more on approaches there was:
1. Attraction.
2. A decent length conversation with commonalities or a perceived similar sense of 'chemistry' within the conversation ( comfort )
3. I boldly assumed the number close and the girl was obviously wiling to comply.
4. I had a blaise don't give a shit, good humored vibe.
5. We talked about her and she also asked me questions about myself.

I think girls that are just being 'polite' have a more ungenuine way of talking to you. That is, it seems to lack warmth. When a girl is getting into you, I can kind of feel myself moving into a groove of sorts with her.

As I type this, there's a short yet built ballet type dancer girl in her early 20s furiously typing away on her MacBook pro a few tables up from me. I'll probably hit her with the laptop prop opener on the way out. I just wish this coffeeshop wasn't so quiet with everyone studying as my approach is going to stand out a little. At least the store just turned on some music for background noise though. Haha.

[XXL]

(01-07-2015 01:45 PM)Dalaran1991 Wrote:  

I'm still having trouble discerning between polite/nice girls and attracted girls. Especially if you are daygaming at a social activity or community events the girls tend to be extra nice but that doesn't always mean she's interested.

So far the only way I have to circumvent this is to push for an instant date, failing that get a number. I don't even like getting numbers anymore. Girls give them to everyone and texting un-attracted girls is a waste of time.

Anyone wanna chime in?

You can probe a little bit how she feels about you before taking her number...

- Tell her why you like her and mention when or where you want to see her again and describe that future date/hangout a bit before even thinking of taking her number. Watch very closely her reaction to that. If she's evasive, hesitant, closed off, indifferent, skeptic etc and she tries to hide her unwillingness to meet up with you again yet acts "nice" out of politeness then she's not really down. OK maybe she's just shy girl but still.. eager but intimidated shy girl looks different than disinterested girl.

Or..

- Escalate the vibe. Amp up romantic atmosphere a bit. Flirt more. Use more pauses. Hold deep eye contact. Touch her in appropriate fun creative way. She should feel that sexy tension. Girls who are attracted get a bit self conscious/shy or smirk in a certain way or look at you in a different way. If she doesn't and she just stays super cool and indifferent to your advances then she's not down.

Doing those things shouldn't be a problem as long as you're into the girl in front of you. Treat phone number only as a tool to meet up again so that the act of taking it is not your end goal or some sort of big moment. Try to establish attraction/connection and mutual expectations/agreement to see each other again first.

[Dalaran1991]

(01-07-2015 06:20 PM)XXL Wrote:  

You can probe a little bit how she feels about you before taking her number...

- Tell her why you like her and mention when or where you want to see her again and describe that future date/hangout a bit. Watch very closely her reaction to that. If she's evasive, hesitant, closed off, inhibited, very skeptic etc and she tries to hide her unwillingness to meet up with you again yet acts nice to be polite then she's not down.

Or..

- Escalate the vibe. Amp up romantic atmosphere a bit. Flirt more. Use more pauses. Hold deep eye contact. Touch her in appropriate fun creative way. She should feel that sexy tension. Girls who are attracted get a bit self conscious/shy or smirk in a certain way or look at you in a different way. If she doesn't and she just stays super cool and indifferent to your advances then she's not down.

Doing those things shouldn't be a problem as long as you're into the girl in front of you. Treat phone number only as a tool to meet up again so that the act of taking it is not your end goal or some sort of big moment. Try to establish attraction/connection and mutual expectations/agreement to see each other again first.

Wisdom

[WestIndianArchie]

I been meaning to reply to this all week.

(01-03-2015 08:38 PM)robreke Wrote:  

First girl was wearing a baseball cap pulled down with a pony tail. She was cute and had a retainer in her lower teeth. Had on sandles and tight black pants and some collared short sleeve shirt.

Sounds young-ish

(01-03-2015 08:38 PM)robreke Wrote:  

She was about 23 -24. Looking at the computer how to books and standing. Earlier I had almost bumped into her as we rounded the corner and we kind of smiled at each other in another part of the store ( more smiling just being polite on a count of almost bumping into each other). she's tall about 5'8 with a medium build.

I walk beside her and pretend to look at a book for about a minute then
Me: Excuse me, is that a good book ( she was holding a few )
Her: This one?
Me- yeah the one on the Ipad.
her: I have no idea I haven't read it. I'm getting it for my grandma who just got an ipad.
she kind of started looking at books again.

I don't know what her tone was, but it's definitely stranger to stranger by the look of it.

A more direct approach

"OMG, you're reading that thick book on the iPad, you must be some super scientist"
(joking exaggeration meant to get her to play a long)

or

"i would have never taken you for a nerd, you hide it well." (some what of a neg, insult, cold read"

(01-03-2015 08:38 PM)robreke Wrote:  

Note---whenever she gave a response to me...even though they were short and she wouldn't verbally offer anything as far as progressing the conversation or asking questions AND her eye contact was on/off....she had a smile on her face when responding. A "teeth showing" smile. ( when a girl smiles when you're talking to her does it necessarily mean anything or is it just mostly common politeness?)

You've read the situation correctly, she's not particularly interested in talking to you.

But a lot of approaching is dealing with uncomfortable social situations and interrupting her social programming. This is really where the game is played, where you pull a chick out of autopilot. The same thing will happen @ the bar or at the night club, but most guys full of liquid courage will often persist and ignore her instant lack of rapport.

Most guys wouldn't approach.
Of those that would approach, most would be brushed off by her brusqueness.

The ping style/the spam approach, is great for finding out who's immediately cooperating - but that's low level game, imo. It heavily relies on your appearance and energy level.

Sometimes that's all you need, in a crowded venue, but day game almost requires you to generate heat where there is none, because you don't have enough targets.

Goes back to the idea of whether you can make someone attracted to you.
Many guys in the game are actually denialists. For them, Game is far more about #'s of chicks approached correctly, than getting recalcitrant bitches to recognize the glory that is you.

Those that persist are on their way to becoming players though.

(01-03-2015 08:38 PM)robreke Wrote:  

Me: Yeah...I asked because I'm trying to get ideas for my brother...he needs some how too technology books for some new things he got.
Her" My 6 year old niece will probably help my grandma with this ...my grandma doesn't know how to do anything.
Me> There's some good how to videos on youtube for the ipad.
Her: Oh...she doesn't know how to find youtube.
Me; are you going to help her any
Her: No...I'm too busy...my 6 year old niece can do that.
The whole time she'd look at me briefly and politely smile but quickly look back to scanning books.
Me: hmm, I was thinking of buying one of these 'how to for dummies' books for my brother as he's getting into graphic design. I heard they were a good series.
Her: I haven't read those.
Me: I read one on another subject...it's just the title can be a little condescending with the 'dummies' part.
Her: she smiles at that and nids then quickly goes back to scanning books.

Standard Ramble, which is appropriate for the day time session.
Indirect.

She didn't give you anything to work with, because she wasn't necessarily open to flirting.
In which case, after her somewhat neutral disposition, you could have went with a Hail Mary in terms of flirting and see if she was holding back.

So two options with a girl who doesn't open up for Indirect Rambling
1) start more direct/romantic minded/flirty from the beginning
2) interject more flirting when the dry stuff isn't sparking.

(01-03-2015 08:38 PM)robreke Wrote:  

At that point....I just couldn't think of anything besides interview type questions...so I stood there looking at my book I grabbed. We both stood next to each other another 30 or so seconds and she walked away. As she was standing there I was thinking 'well she's still standing her...say something!'

If she has a lingering look, maybe she was just waiting for you to say the right words.

I tend to be optimistic, but look at it this way.

My attempts to chat this girl up, pulled her out of Grandma/Niece land, and back into "me getting my pussy stroked" land. And as you were pulling out, she was just starting to realize that she could take some Robreke dick, but you need to give her a reason.

In a situation like this, where you're on the tail end of an attempted pick up and it seems to be dead...but there's a flicker of life...HAIL MARY.

I'd rather go out in a blaze of glory (or in some cases store security pulling me out of the Cookbook section), than to wonder. The worst thing in the world is to wonder "if".

*she lingers*
*gives you the look*

After you're done, taking care of Granny, come find me, I've got a book that I know is PERFECT for you.

or

"i've really enjoyed this conversation" (obvious reframe)
"we should totally continue this"
....

However you typically set up your buying question, do it at the end when all hope is lost.

(01-03-2015 08:38 PM)robreke Wrote:  

oh well...onto the 'seated girl'

In general, hard to pull a chick from a comfortable position.
Chicks like inertia.

(01-03-2015 08:38 PM)robreke Wrote:  

I first spotted the seated girl walking around aimlessly looking for books and she finally went to the help employee and he started showing her around. I just waited on an aisle spying on her to stop and start looking at books. They actually came to my aisle and I pretended to read a book as they stood there but she obviously saw me. About 8 minutes later....I spotted her sitting down in another part of the store reading. I pretended to look at these cliff notes on a file rack ( the only thing by her) and she kind of looked up at me like she sensed I was hovering around which I didn't do but for a few seconds.

Take the bull by the horns and reframe.

This happens at the grocery store all the time. The way a store is set up, people start on the right, and then go through all the aisles until the hit the left.

Accuse her of following/stalking you. Even though it's the exact opposite.

"what's your deal?"
"what's your problem"
"are you stalking me"
"seems we like the same things"
"we keep running into each other, you should be more gracious and introduce yourself"


Think of something that fits you and your style, but this is an easy one.

If you live in one place for a while and go to the same sort of events, the chick you saw @ the Vegan Pottery Exhibition on Wednesday will be @ the Freegan Feastival on Saturday.

(01-03-2015 08:38 PM)robreke Wrote:  

She's wearing a black long sleeve outfit with some kind of skirt and almost knee high black boots and has black hose or black skin tight exercise pants on. She's got long dark blonde hair. Anywhere from 18-22 years old. Tall and medium build ( I like girls with a little meat on them and not rail thin)

You like em young man. I see this girl as an employee or an intern.

(01-03-2015 08:38 PM)robreke Wrote:  

Me: Is that a good book?
Her - ( She said something like yes or maybe even yes sir...it was low) It is so far...I just started. she kind of opened it to show me and started to look down again
Me: I'm looking for a book for my cousin. she's coming into town for a late Christmas and I need some good ideas. Is it a good author?
Her: she held the book up.
Me...oh..it's Gilian Flynn I've heard of her.
Her- yeah she did gone Girl.
Me: I heard that was a good movie. Have you seen it?
Her: Yes.
Me. did you like it?
Her...it was good

Good open.
Good ramble.
Good small bait.

She didn't bite.

Does she know that you're trying to flirt with her?
That's the question that comes to mind.

The 2nd question is, she does know, and she's not responding, so now what?

(01-03-2015 08:38 PM)robreke Wrote:  

She was giving short answers and looking up at me with a semi smile and nervous eye contact....but rather sustained eye contact. A few times...I held eye contact for several seconds and she continued to look. I'd ask my question or statement...she'd respond to the questions then, look back down to her book.
She looks down at her book and keeps reading.

Her behavior can go either way, but always interpret positively.

Even when it's negative. Even when others might think you delusional. Unflappable.

You want that story in your mind that said, I totally talked to that chick, even though she hated me at first. Now, she's sitting in my bed reading her twitter feed.

I don't know if I've said this, but a lot of game is you fooling yourself, you giving yourself permission to talk to these chicks.

This world does so much to beat down a man's self image that he rarely tries to fly towards the sun anymore. Not to get all "woo woo", but when you start rejecting the way the world is framing you, you'll become more attractive to all.

Usually the leader of a situation, or an organization, the real leader, not the one with the title - is the person with the a vision that they themselves believe.

I see it all the time at work, where the boss and higher ups are gung ho as fuck about some thing they want us grunts to do. It fails more often than not, and it was obvious that it would - but the leaders of the group are unflappable and reframe every loss or mishap as learning experiences.

It's sickening on the one hand, but it's very enlightening on the other. These idiots have made so much money being wrong, I wonder how much I could make by being right.

As you get better with the convos, and your subconscious starts to recognize positive signs, not only will the words come easier, but the world view that you are an attractive man, that's banged enough chicks, that adding another one to your roster is simple.

(01-03-2015 08:38 PM)robreke Wrote:  

Me after looking at the cliff notes another 15 seconds.
Me: Do you read the book before seeing the movie sometimes?
Her: yeah...sometimes.
Me...I do too. I always like the book better than the movies when I do that. I think it has to do with our minds being so much more creative and then the movie disappoints.
Her: yeah....our minds create the story.
Me: exactly.
after saying this with the same expression...she just goes back to reading. In retrospect...I guess I was a little lame in not dropping more bait for her to ask me anything as I was just making statements and asking her questions.
I continue to look at the cliff notes rack for about a minute and I am feeling awkward.

You gamed yourself out of the game.

Don't beat yourself up, it happens. I have my areas of strength, where I can't be touched. but in a new environment, a new task, I can self-talk myself out of giving my 100% and expecting the best. The proverbial self-fulfilling prophecy.

(01-03-2015 08:38 PM)robreke Wrote:  

She's reading her book with her hand against her head as if to block me out.
Me: Well, good luck with the book ...( as I walk off)
Her: Thank you.

that's it.

The generic advice is that you need to persist until the chick leaves, but that's easier said than done. You have to push through socially uncomfortable barriers to do this sort of thing, but you don't start lifting weights with 500 lbs on the bar.

As a training device, you can use some old pick up tech, known as the "false time constraint"

You tell the chick that you've only got a sec, and then go into your rap. (which is less back and forth and dependent on her answering questions or giving you the go ahead)

So she's expecting it to be quick.
By your manner and demeanor you can alter her emotional state
"she's sitting down and reading"- so you need her to be more "up" than that situation lends itself to.

From there
- opinion opener
- story opener
- cold read

Whatever you like to open with.

And the second you get some positive feedback and you can flirt, do so.
If it goes well get her contact info, really well instadate.

If she brings up your friends, "OMG I totally forgot" and blame her for it. (which is what chicks do in that situation)

If it doesn't go well, and it may not, even with her change of state/mood. You've got your friends that are supposed to show up by the coffee shop. And you can exit.

The exit to your friends is more about keeping your mojo going than it is about her believing your lackeys are gonna be in front of the Starbucks.

WIA

[Grey_Armor]

WIA^ ....That was beautiful, nice assessment.

[robreke]

(01-10-2015 01:59 PM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:  

I been meaning to reply to this all week.

(01-03-2015 08:38 PM)robreke Wrote:  

First girl was wearing a baseball cap pulled down with a pony tail. She was cute and had a retainer in her lower teeth. Had on sandles and tight black pants and some collared short sleeve shirt.

Sounds young-ish

(01-03-2015 08:38 PM)robreke Wrote:  

She was about 23 -24. Looking at the computer how to books and standing. Earlier I had almost bumped into her as we rounded the corner and we kind of smiled at each other in another part of the store ( more smiling just being polite on a count of almost bumping into each other). she's tall about 5'8 with a medium build.

I walk beside her and pretend to look at a book for about a minute then
Me: Excuse me, is that a good book ( she was holding a few )
Her: This one?
Me- yeah the one on the Ipad.
her: I have no idea I haven't read it. I'm getting it for my grandma who just got an ipad.
she kind of started looking at books again.

I don't know what her tone was, but it's definitely stranger to stranger by the look of it.

A more direct approach

"OMG, you're reading that thick book on the iPad, you must be some super scientist"
(joking exaggeration meant to get her to play a long)

or

"i would have never taken you for a nerd, you hide it well." (some what of a neg, insult, cold read"

(01-03-2015 08:38 PM)robreke Wrote:  

Note---whenever she gave a response to me...even though they were short and she wouldn't verbally offer anything as far as progressing the conversation or asking questions AND her eye contact was on/off....she had a smile on her face when responding. A "teeth showing" smile. ( when a girl smiles when you're talking to her does it necessarily mean anything or is it just mostly common politeness?)

You've read the situation correctly, she's not particularly interested in talking to you.

But a lot of approaching is dealing with uncomfortable social situations and interrupting her social programming. This is really where the game is played, where you pull a chick out of autopilot. The same thing will happen @ the bar or at the night club, but most guys full of liquid courage will often persist and ignore her instant lack of rapport.

Most guys wouldn't approach.
Of those that would approach, most would be brushed off by her brusqueness.

The ping style/the spam approach, is great for finding out who's immediately cooperating - but that's low level game, imo. It heavily relies on your appearance and energy level.

Sometimes that's all you need, in a crowded venue, but day game almost requires you to generate heat where there is none, because you don't have enough targets.

Goes back to the idea of whether you can make someone attracted to you.
Many guys in the game are actually denialists. For them, Game is far more about #'s of chicks approached correctly, than getting recalcitrant bitches to recognize the glory that is you.

Those that persist are on their way to becoming players though.

(01-03-2015 08:38 PM)robreke Wrote:  

Me: Yeah...I asked because I'm trying to get ideas for my brother...he needs some how too technology books for some new things he got.
Her" My 6 year old niece will probably help my grandma with this ...my grandma doesn't know how to do anything.
Me> There's some good how to videos on youtube for the ipad.
Her: Oh...she doesn't know how to find youtube.
Me; are you going to help her any
Her: No...I'm too busy...my 6 year old niece can do that.
The whole time she'd look at me briefly and politely smile but quickly look back to scanning books.
Me: hmm, I was thinking of buying one of these 'how to for dummies' books for my brother as he's getting into graphic design. I heard they were a good series.
Her: I haven't read those.
Me: I read one on another subject...it's just the title can be a little condescending with the 'dummies' part.
Her: she smiles at that and nids then quickly goes back to scanning books.

Standard Ramble, which is appropriate for the day time session.
Indirect.

She didn't give you anything to work with, because she wasn't necessarily open to flirting.
In which case, after her somewhat neutral disposition, you could have went with a Hail Mary in terms of flirting and see if she was holding back.

So two options with a girl who doesn't open up for Indirect Rambling
1) start more direct/romantic minded/flirty from the beginning
2) interject more flirting when the dry stuff isn't sparking.

(01-03-2015 08:38 PM)robreke Wrote:  

At that point....I just couldn't think of anything besides interview type questions...so I stood there looking at my book I grabbed. We both stood next to each other another 30 or so seconds and she walked away. As she was standing there I was thinking 'well she's still standing her...say something!'

If she has a lingering look, maybe she was just waiting for you to say the right words.

I tend to be optimistic, but look at it this way.

My attempts to chat this girl up, pulled her out of Grandma/Niece land, and back into "me getting my pussy stroked" land. And as you were pulling out, she was just starting to realize that she could take some Robreke dick, but you need to give her a reason.

In a situation like this, where you're on the tail end of an attempted pick up and it seems to be dead...but there's a flicker of life...HAIL MARY.

I'd rather go out in a blaze of glory (or in some cases store security pulling me out of the Cookbook section), than to wonder. The worst thing in the world is to wonder "if".

*she lingers*
*gives you the look*

After you're done, taking care of Granny, come find me, I've got a book that I know is PERFECT for you.

or

"i've really enjoyed this conversation" (obvious reframe)
"we should totally continue this"
....

However you typically set up your buying question, do it at the end when all hope is lost.

(01-03-2015 08:38 PM)robreke Wrote:  

oh well...onto the 'seated girl'

In general, hard to pull a chick from a comfortable position.
Chicks like inertia.

(01-03-2015 08:38 PM)robreke Wrote:  

I first spotted the seated girl walking around aimlessly looking for books and she finally went to the help employee and he started showing her around. I just waited on an aisle spying on her to stop and start looking at books. They actually came to my aisle and I pretended to read a book as they stood there but she obviously saw me. About 8 minutes later....I spotted her sitting down in another part of the store reading. I pretended to look at these cliff notes on a file rack ( the only thing by her) and she kind of looked up at me like she sensed I was hovering around which I didn't do but for a few seconds.

Take the bull by the horns and reframe.

This happens at the grocery store all the time. The way a store is set up, people start on the right, and then go through all the aisles until the hit the left.

Accuse her of following/stalking you. Even though it's the exact opposite.

"what's your deal?"
"what's your problem"
"are you stalking me"
"seems we like the same things"
"we keep running into each other, you should be more gracious and introduce yourself"


Think of something that fits you and your style, but this is an easy one.

If you live in one place for a while and go to the same sort of events, the chick you saw @ the Vegan Pottery Exhibition on Wednesday will be @ the Freegan Feastival on Saturday.

(01-03-2015 08:38 PM)robreke Wrote:  

She's wearing a black long sleeve outfit with some kind of skirt and almost knee high black boots and has black hose or black skin tight exercise pants on. She's got long dark blonde hair. Anywhere from 18-22 years old. Tall and medium build ( I like girls with a little meat on them and not rail thin)

You like em young man. I see this girl as an employee or an intern.

(01-03-2015 08:38 PM)robreke Wrote:  

Me: Is that a good book?
Her - ( She said something like yes or maybe even yes sir...it was low) It is so far...I just started. she kind of opened it to show me and started to look down again
Me: I'm looking for a book for my cousin. she's coming into town for a late Christmas and I need some good ideas. Is it a good author?
Her: she held the book up.
Me...oh..it's Gilian Flynn I've heard of her.
Her- yeah she did gone Girl.
Me: I heard that was a good movie. Have you seen it?
Her: Yes.
Me. did you like it?
Her...it was good

Good open.
Good ramble.
Good small bait.

She didn't bite.

Does she know that you're trying to flirt with her?
That's the question that comes to mind.

The 2nd question is, she does know, and she's not responding, so now what?

(01-03-2015 08:38 PM)robreke Wrote:  

She was giving short answers and looking up at me with a semi smile and nervous eye contact....but rather sustained eye contact. A few times...I held eye contact for several seconds and she continued to look. I'd ask my question or statement...she'd respond to the questions then, look back down to her book.
She looks down at her book and keeps reading.

Her behavior can go either way, but always interpret positively.

Even when it's negative. Even when others might think you delusional. Unflappable.

You want that story in your mind that said, I totally talked to that chick, even though she hated me at first. Now, she's sitting in my bed reading her twitter feed.

I don't know if I've said this, but a lot of game is you fooling yourself, you giving yourself permission to talk to these chicks.

This world does so much to beat down a man's self image that he rarely tries to fly towards the sun anymore. Not to get all "woo woo", but when you start rejecting the way the world is framing you, you'll become more attractive to all.

Usually the leader of a situation, or an organization, the real leader, not the one with the title - is the person with the a vision that they themselves believe.

I see it all the time at work, where the boss and higher ups are gung ho as fuck about some thing they want us grunts to do. It fails more often than not, and it was obvious that it would - but the leaders of the group are unflappable and reframe every loss or mishap as learning experiences.

It's sickening on the one hand, but it's very enlightening on the other. These idiots have made so much money being wrong, I wonder how much I could make by being right.

As you get better with the convos, and your subconscious starts to recognize positive signs, not only will the words come easier, but the world view that you are an attractive man, that's banged enough chicks, that adding another one to your roster is simple.

(01-03-2015 08:38 PM)robreke Wrote:  

Me after looking at the cliff notes another 15 seconds.
Me: Do you read the book before seeing the movie sometimes?
Her: yeah...sometimes.
Me...I do too. I always like the book better than the movies when I do that. I think it has to do with our minds being so much more creative and then the movie disappoints.
Her: yeah....our minds create the story.
Me: exactly.
after saying this with the same expression...she just goes back to reading. In retrospect...I guess I was a little lame in not dropping more bait for her to ask me anything as I was just making statements and asking her questions.
I continue to look at the cliff notes rack for about a minute and I am feeling awkward.

You gamed yourself out of the game.

Don't beat yourself up, it happens. I have my areas of strength, where I can't be touched. but in a new environment, a new task, I can self-talk myself out of giving my 100% and expecting the best. The proverbial self-fulfilling prophecy.

(01-03-2015 08:38 PM)robreke Wrote:  

She's reading her book with her hand against her head as if to block me out.
Me: Well, good luck with the book ...( as I walk off)
Her: Thank you.

that's it.

The generic advice is that you need to persist until the chick leaves, but that's easier said than done. You have to push through socially uncomfortable barriers to do this sort of thing, but you don't start lifting weights with 500 lbs on the bar.

As a training device, you can use some old pick up tech, known as the "false time constraint"

You tell the chick that you've only got a sec, and then go into your rap. (which is less back and forth and dependent on her answering questions or giving you the go ahead)

So she's expecting it to be quick.
By your manner and demeanor you can alter her emotional state
"she's sitting down and reading"- so you need her to be more "up" than that situation lends itself to.

From there
- opinion opener
- story opener
- cold read

Whatever you like to open with.

And the second you get some positive feedback and you can flirt, do so.
If it goes well get her contact info, really well instadate.

If she brings up your friends, "OMG I totally forgot" and blame her for it. (which is what chicks do in that situation)

If it doesn't go well, and it may not, even with her change of state/mood. You've got your friends that are supposed to show up by the coffee shop. And you can exit.

The exit to your friends is more about keeping your mojo going than it is about her believing your lackeys are gonna be in front of the Starbucks.

WIA

WIA,

Good stuff. I like the idea about the false time constraint. I used to do that with good results.

A few questions....when you said "You gamed yourself out of the game" Do you mean I was too "sticking to the book" in hoping she'd bite on my bait and not free styling with some flirting? Can you elaborate?

You say " when she's not really open for indirect route....interject more flirty stuff" This is something I really have a problem with. I'm ( and I assume most people ) a "transitional" kind of guy....meaning I feel most comfortable slowly moving the interaction and level of flirtiness forward as the girl allows from the calibration I feel and I am not as comfortable going from "well, indirect isn't working now I'm gonna start flirting". I need help in this area.

I suppose I'm concerned about coming off as 'imappropriate' in going from talking about books with not much response to being flirty. I suppose this is what you mean by 'hail mary' I am about to search for threads in how to flirt. XXL has said some good things on it that I'm trying to integrate but much of his examples aren't congruent with a lot of my interactions as I believe he's quite young and I'm an older dude and saying some of the joking banter he does as a guy who she probably thinks is in his mid 30s may seem a bit 'off' as opposed as coming from a guy in his 20s.

What are some good tenets of your 'ramping up the flirting?' Gio just straight up tells girls they 'look nice' today. And to me, flirting is in a way complimenting something she's wearing or her look....but something in my mind tells me this is too supplicating. Other schools of flirting touch on witty subcommunications and observations with underlying sexual themes....but in real time as you're standing there next to a somewhat un responsive hot girl and that thick air is in between you and her, a witty response is tough to think of.

I have a feeling that if I could come up with some things just to say when I'm not getting a response from indirect stuff....and let her know I like her....I could elicit that look in her eyes of realization and she's like 'oh...this guy likes me....I see where he's taking this now" In the past a few times after an indirect was going stale, I've said something like " Actually, I knew where the starbucks is I asked you about....I really just thought you were cute and couldn't think of anything else to say. ( she looks at me different) then, I'll say " I'm robreke," and extend my hand. " Those approaches have gone well for the most part....even though I sometimes get the boyfriend response at the end. However, I need something more subtle in transitioning ( especially in a bookstore or other more subdued environment ) from when the indirect isn't working to more flirty ( just some basic ideas/principles) as I've come to too many dead ends with girls in bookstores/groceries/etc when the informational banters peters out, she hasn't taken my bait....and I just say "thanks" and walk away. I need a 'tool' to pul out of my bag to get more flirty in these situations.

Also: How does one reconcile the tenet: " Keep talking until they walk away" when it is a seated girl you've approached. I think this principle is a bit different when you've approached a girl who is seated at a table or something - It would be bordering on rude to keep talking to her and make her leave her spot. I suppose it's just common sense when she completely stops looking at you?

[WestIndianArchie]

(01-11-2015 11:19 AM)robreke Wrote:  

WIA,

Good stuff. I like the idea about the false time constraint. I used to do that with good results.

A few questions....when you said "You gamed yourself out of the game" Do you mean I was too "sticking to the book" in hoping she'd bite on my bait and not free styling with some flirting? Can you elaborate?

You convinced yourself not to move forward.
You talked yourself out of it.

You should be talking her into it. Ideally, you've got to make her 1) leave the scene, 2) give you a hard no. Right now you're playing nice.

(01-11-2015 11:19 AM)robreke Wrote:  

You say " when she's not really open for indirect route....interject more flirty stuff" This is something I really have a problem with. I'm ( and I assume most people ) a "transitional" kind of guy....meaning I feel most comfortable slowly moving the interaction and level of flirtiness forward as the girl allows from the calibration I feel and I am not as comfortable going from "well, indirect isn't working now I'm gonna start flirting". I need help in this area.

There's not a lot of ramping up to it.
You either do it or you don't.

Getting over your own mentally placed obstacle is the first thing you need to do. Then calibrating your flirts is what you do next.

I'm really tempted to talk about the different schools of thought on pick up theory...and what that looks like in a practical sense, but in terms of advice - just do it. You may have to ramp up to it by doing it online first and then moving offline, and doing it while tipsy at a alcohol serving establishment, and finally to sober day game.

(01-11-2015 11:19 AM)robreke Wrote:  

I suppose I'm concerned about coming off as 'imappropriate' in going from talking about books with not much response to being flirty. I suppose this is what you mean by 'hail mary'

For the non-Americans reading this post, A "Hail Mary" happens in American football (basketball as well) when it's the last couple seconds of the game, the team with the ball is losing and has no good options. So during the last play the quarterback just throws the ball far and prays that a receiver catches it and scores a touch down. One last ditch effort. And maybe just maybe victory can be snatched from the jaws of defeat.

No, the "Hail Mary" in pick up lingo

- the set is going poorly
- she hasn't ejected - i.e. called for security or gotten up and left
- she's still keeping it polite, even if there's an edge in her voice and tone.

- so even though you know it's going poorly, you reframe this bad pick up as actually a great one

- if you suddenly think this little chat went well, there are a # of chicks who'll adopt your frame and agree with you

- then you ask your buying question (lets exchange #'s, let's go get some coffee, I've got a Hyundai in the parking lot and both seats fold down)

You're basically assuming the attraction, comfort, and rapport and going in for the kill.

.................
Back in the day, when I would read accounts like this, "she totally bought into my frame", I straight up did not believe those guys.

And then I sold insurance for a summer.

I used to do sets with trained salespeople. I'd watch them, they'd watch me. I wasn't doing well. I'd sold a few of the cheapest products, but I just knew they were going to fire me. (I ended up quitting because the emotional toll was way too much)

But I remember one business owner that I talked to. I was using the script, I script I had 50% memorized. Anyway, I'd flubbed most of it, but kept my cool. I remembered to him if he wanted to buy. And he did.

Surprised the fuck out of me.

1) continued surprise that scripted things worked
2) that he didn't react the way that I thought he should have reacted
3) keeping my composure is a key element of everything

It is counter-intuitive to think that you can fail your way into success.

But the reality is that you only know what's going on in your head (and truthfully only some of that). You don't know what a chick is thinking until you ask her to buy. In sales, you ask 3x. If you get three real no's, then you go into rebuttals.

Picking up girls isn't exactly like sales, but a lot of what's going on IN THE SELLER'S MIND is the same.

As an aside, People buy things for dumb reasons.

Another sales story (life insurance)

Life insurance is put on a person so that they can provide for family after they die. If i have a 1 million dollar policy on my life, I have to die for my family to collect. It's not for me, its' for them.

Scenario
- husband and wife
- husband needs insurance, he's the breadwinner
- stay at home wife doesn't need insurance at all
- Husband doesn't qualify, but wife does.
- Husband explains to the wife that if she dies, the family will be monetarily okay. But if he dies, they're all fucked.

So the wife says to him, "I can't have anything for me?"

I don't remember if I ended up selling the wife, but I plainly remember how hurt and betrayed she felt.

To bring it back to the game
- you don't know what a chick is like until you interact with her
- you don't know if she's feeling you until you give her a buying question
- even after you bang, you can't be sure as to what made you successful and what made you fail.

(01-11-2015 11:19 AM)robreke Wrote:  

I am about to search for threads in how to flirt. XXL has said some good things on it that I'm trying to integrate but much of his examples aren't congruent with a lot of my interactions as I believe he's quite young and I'm an older dude and saying some of the joking banter he does as a guy who she probably thinks is in his mid 30s may seem a bit 'off' as opposed as coming from a guy in his 20s.

There are plenty of 45 year old comics. This is a mental block.

(01-11-2015 11:19 AM)robreke Wrote:  

What are some good tenets of your 'ramping up the flirting?' Gio just straight up tells girls they 'look nice' today. And to me, flirting is in a way complimenting something she's wearing or her look....but something in my mind tells me this is too supplicating. Other schools of flirting touch on witty subcommunications and observations with underlying sexual themes....but in real time as you're standing there next to a somewhat un responsive hot girl and that thick air is in between you and her, a witty response is tough to think of.

Gio's a pro. That's his style. It works for him. It can work for you, if that's what kind of game you want to run. Every style works, in that attracts who it attracts and screens out who it was meant to screen out. The problem isn't one of style, it's the thirst for pussy that has guys abandon styles looking for a magic bullet or a quick fix.

Compliments are not always the death of good game. It's just that most of us try to attract women with compliment and cuddle back as teenagers. Later on in life, when you're seasoned, you'll see a chick take a sincere compliment with no urge on your part to bang as an insult. So you just learn to hold back on compliments.

(01-11-2015 11:19 AM)robreke Wrote:  

I have a feeling that if I could come up with some things just to say when I'm not getting a response from indirect stuff....and let her know I like her....I could elicit that look in her eyes of realization and she's like 'oh...this guy likes me....I see where he's taking this now" In the past a few times after an indirect was going stale, I've said something like " Actually, I knew where the starbucks is I asked you about....I really just thought you were cute and couldn't think of anything else to say. ( she looks at me different) then, I'll say " I'm robreke," and extend my hand. " Those approaches have gone well for the most part....even though I sometimes get the boyfriend response at the end.

I've seen that work. Patrice O'Neal was a master of that come at a chick one way, and then drop the pretense. He'd insult a chick, then play it off with "you know how when you were in school, you'd punch someone in the arm if you liked them"

If you like that approach, do it.

When I do day game or "on the spot" game, I just talk to a chick like she's someone I know. If the conversation opens up and gets going, i'll break a cardinal pick up rule and give my name first. (OMG!! WIA is insane)

From there you can hold the handshake a little longer, or take her hand when she extends it as opposed to shaking it.

Too bold?

The easiest way to turn a neutral conversation is take something that she says about the topic, and talk about her.

Her - "Well yeah, I think that all rapists should be castrated"
You - "That's an interesting perspective, and it says a lot about you"

Now the conversation has been steered to her favorite subject, herself.

Once the topic is about her, she's fair game for compliments, backhanded compliments, cold reads, et cetera.

(01-11-2015 11:19 AM)robreke Wrote:  

However, I need something more subtle in transitioning ( especially in a bookstore or other more subdued environment ) from when the indirect isn't working to more flirty ( just some basic ideas/principles) as I've come to too many dead ends with girls in bookstores/groceries/etc when the informational banters peters out, she hasn't taken my bait....and I just say "thanks" and walk away. I need a 'tool' to pul out of my bag to get more flirty in these situations.

I lean on cold reads, because cold reads lead to her talking about herself.

There are other options

Grocery store
- she's by the watermelons
- you pick one up, but it by your ear and give it a tap
- turn to her, and ask her to tap

You're flirting

Bookstore
- Naw, you don't want that book, you want this one.
*throw in a smirk,

You're flirting

I could think of dozens of

(01-11-2015 11:19 AM)robreke Wrote:  

Also: How does one reconcile the tenet: " Keep talking until they walk away" when it is a seated girl you've approached. I think this principle is a bit different when you've approached a girl who is seated at a table or something - It would be bordering on rude to keep talking to her and make her leave her spot. I suppose it's just common sense when she completely stops looking at you?

All pick up is rude. Luckily it's not illegal.

Pick up breaks social convention.
She only wants to meet people through her social circle or celebrities.

Google "seated targets" and "pua". There are lots of ideas for them.

WIA

[XXL]

As for being inappropriate.. like i wrote earlier. you simply acknowledge elephant in the room. you address girl's reaction whether she's shy weirded out or indifferent by asking what's up with her.

as for cutting indirect route.. it's fine you can always change topic at any moment spontaneously. like you ramble about her book and suddenly her scarf brings some memories and you just say hey i remember this scarf blablabla

as for eliciting emotions by switching to conveying interest fast.. in my school of thought the girl should feel that you're actually interested in her and the faster it happens the better. all that prop talk or innocent flirting is just an excuse to start interaction and get the conversation going. once it's going you can practically lead it in any direction you want changing topics out of the blue cutting threads etc.