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Men paying for weddings
#1

Men paying for weddings

When the hell did men start being expected to pay for a day when they are - at best - the supporting act?

It wasn't that long ago when the father-in-law would have paid for the wedding and given something to the new couple to help start them off. This had an effect of keeping costs down.

Now it seems that men pay for their weddings, honeymoons but of course the traditional purchase of an engagement ring is strictly not up for similar modernisation.
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#2

Men paying for weddings

Quote: (01-03-2015 05:49 AM)N°6 Wrote:  

When the hell did men start being expected to pay for a day when they are - at best - the supporting act?

It wasn't that long ago when the father-in-law would have paid for the wedding and given something to the new couple to help start them off. This had an effect of keeping costs down.

Now it seems that men pay for their weddings, honeymoons but of course the traditional purchase of an engagement ring is strictly not up for similar modernisation.

Probably not long after people started living together and having kids before marriage without shame.

Basically it's another chance for women to spend the man's money on pointless shit.

A good chunk of a house or a fancy party? You know which side they come down on.

"I'd hate myself if I had that kind of attitude, if I were that weak." - Arnold
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#3

Men paying for weddings

This thread seems to start with an assumption.

Do men pay in modern society? I assumed most of these events were a couples' thing (finance-wise), and since plenty of couples live together before getting married, I've even witnessed them joining efforts to save up for it. Unless there's an obvious salary gap in the relationship or the parents are doing well enough to foot the bill (your perception of it can be skewed by your class background).

Also, while on an intellectual standpoint men stand to gain a lot less, most guys I've seen get married are fairly stoked about the whole ceremony too, even if nervous, and throwing a good shebang is as much a pride thing as it is giving the missus her little princess dream.

The whole "this is all for her" act guys put on is contrived as the rest of it all. I was a best man at a wedding and we even took it as far as to be sneaking a beer behind the keg when they called him up and acted like he was hiding. Thinking back, he was obviously stoked or he wouldn't have been going through it - dude was fucking glowing when they exchanged vows. We made a fuss and clowned around, but it's all just part of the fun and games.

Not trying to justify the expense or the choice, but let's take it on fair terms.

Beyond All Seas

"The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe.
To be your own man is a hard business. If you try it, you'll be lonely often, and sometimes
frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself." - Kipling
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#4

Men paying for weddings

Feminism has been about increasing female power and authority over men while at the same time reducing their responsibility and accountability.

It's funny how this is one of the old cis-gendered patriarchal traditions that need to die since the dowery is something a woman brings to the table for the marriage.

If I were to marry an American woman, I would do some tiny, private cheap wedding that is low key. Heck, I know a guy who he and his wife got married at the courthouse. That's a great way to avoid a wedding that costs $30,000.

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#5

Men paying for weddings

Quote: (01-03-2015 06:23 AM)Beyond Borders Wrote:  

This thread seems to start with an assumption.

Do men pay in modern society? I assumed most of these events were a couples' thing (finance-wise), and since plenty of couples live together before getting married, I've even witnessed them joining efforts to save up for it. Unless there's an obvious salary gap in the relationship or the parents are doing well enough to foot the bill (your perception of it can be skewed by your class background).

Also, while on an intellectual standpoint men stand to gain a lot less, most guys I've seen get married are fairly stoked about the whole ceremony too, even if nervous, and throwing a good shebang is as much a pride thing as it is giving the missus her little princess dream.

The whole "this is all for her" act guys put on is contrived as the rest of it all. I was a best man at a wedding and we even took it as far as to be sneaking a beer behind the keg when they called him up and acted like he was hiding. Thinking back, he was obviously stoked or he wouldn't have been going through it - dude was fucking glowing when they exchanged vows. We made a fuss and clowned around, but it's all just part of the fun and games.

Not trying to justify the expense or the choice, but let's take it on fair terms.

According to this site the couples pays 30% of the time and the bride's parents 17%. The rest is a mix of different options.

The average cost is $20,000, but the ring counts towards that number.

My dad gave each of my sisters a $5,000 wedding gift ahead of the wedding to offset costs. I know between the groom's parents and other gifts none of my sisters actually lost spent money on the party/wedding.

Distinguishing between bride and groom wouldn't really matter though, once you're married your finances are tied. You could debate who wants a bigger party more, but that'd be tough to prove.

Most of the weddings I've been to recently have been smaller affairs. Parties in backyards or rented out bars. Personally I think it's insane to spend a lot of money celebrating a marriage if you already live together, what's the difference.
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#6

Men paying for weddings

I Haven't noticed this thread. The people I know who got married, the groom, bride and their families all contributed.
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#7

Men paying for weddings

Traditionally, the bride's family pays for the wedding. This was the case until at least the 1970s. It's funny how this custom has been effectively abolished and forgotten.
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#8

Men paying for weddings

If you are having a traditional relationship (her living in her parent's house and you living on your own) and getting a traditional wedding, her father will most likely pay for it. But you can't move in with her and live for years and then expect her father to pay for it, unless he wants to. To me, a girl moving out of her parents to live with her boyfriend is basically saying to parents ''I'm a grown up person now and I can make my own life choices, so fuck you!''. Then she can't go on pretending to be still their little girl and ask for wedding money. She was the ''grown-up'' girl who moved out without asking them and she is still the same grown-up girl who should come up with a plan to pay for the wedding with her boyfriend. Living with parents= saying '' I still need your support'' , moving out = saying ''I wanna stand on my own two feet'' so be it.
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#9

Men paying for weddings

In some countries or cultures - EE, some Jewish, Italian etc. it is customary for the guests to give cash. Usually people give more than it costs to throw a wedding, so I know quite a few couples who actually made money via their wedding. They later used it to buy a car, down payment for a house etc.

I find that custom sensible, since the costs are spread out and the amount is not significant per person, but would be heavy for the bride & groom or their family.

I think that everyone should do it like that except for the extremely wealthy for whom 200k for a wedding is like a parking ticket for the rest of the population.
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#10

Men paying for weddings

You're not just paying for the wedding you're picking up the check for all the debt she accrued before she met you.

That's why you only marry young virgin women with a dowry. [Image: lol.gif]

Team Nachos
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#11

Men paying for weddings

After reading my great great grandfather's journal to his son, in America it was expected in the mid 1860s that the man pays for the wedding. He ended up writing home asking for some cash to pay the wedding.

So no, this seems to be a tradition that goes back longer than "typical" feminism.
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#12

Men paying for weddings

It just seems wrong to me. Asking a man to pay for his own wedding is like asking a condemned prisoner to flip the switch at his own execution
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#13

Men paying for weddings

Quote: (01-03-2015 02:17 PM)Lord_Perseus Wrote:  

It just seems wrong to me. Asking a man to pay for his own wedding is like asking a condemned prisoner to flip the switch at his own execution

I don't see why men should pay for the wedding. We're already expected to pay for the divorce [Image: lol.gif]





Team Nachos
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#14

Men paying for weddings

^made my day! Lol!
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#15

Men paying for weddings

I'm sure I've told this story before, but I will tell it again.

When I married my wife, there could have been no end to it (since Taiwanese weddings can get very big, and the groom's family pays in most cases). Prior to our wedding, my wife didn't want an engagement ring, but I told her that the amount I would have spent on it (only about 50% of one month's salary anyway) could be spent on anything else. At first, she wanted to have laser eye surgery, but then decided against that, and instead wanted us to go on another vacation (other than the honeymoon). Note that she wanted something for us, not for her.

I should also point out that at the time we were planning the wedding, my wife was still a university student, so she had no money, hence why I ended up paying. Any money she had from working part-time jobs was pitiful (in those days, ~$3/hour).

I set a budget for the wedding that was 1/3-/12 what typical weddings in Taiwan cost. I told her that if she went over that amount, the difference would come from the money I would allow her to spend on something else. Likewise, if she went under budget, the amount she saved would get added to the vacation fund total. I set up an incentive scheme, basically. That my wife went along with it without argument was one of many reasons that I knew that she was a keeper.

In the end, she came in only a couple of hundred dollars over budget, I think, which I ended up waiving. We largely avoided the sheer consumeristic excess of many weddings. A few people, particularly her sisters, called me stingy because I didn't want to blow money on stupid crap, such as multiple dresses (my wife's main dress was in perfect condition, but secondhand and then she also bought one other dress to change into afterwards), a DJ/MC, multiple rented luxury cars, etc. Isn't it amazing that my wife and I now have two businesses, work far fewer hours than most people, have travelled to a bunch of countries (including Iceland for our honeymoon, albeit during their financial collapse) and have a ton of money in various other investments whilst her sisters and assorted other whiners have...you can fill in the picture.

My wife's father actually ended up paying for some stuff, but only because he then got the red envelopes (containing cash) for those people he had invited who my wife didn't even know because of his obligations to them. That leads me into something Zelscorpion brought up.

In Taiwan, and I am sure it is similar in other countries, the giving of cash at weddings then ties the receiver into attending other people's weddings (and thus, giving money). In my father-in-law's case, he was/is expected to attend the weddings of the children of all of the people he invited to my wedding. Those people will also be obligated to attend the wedding of my wife's younger brother in the future. Indeed, my wife and I are in a similar situation with her former classmates, etc. So, when people say that they make money from their weddings, they don't really. They receive the money in a lump sum and then pay it back periodically (which is an advantage, obviously).

In Taiwan, this is actually accounted for in a ledger. At our wedding, one of my wife's sisters and someone else (an aunt, I think), had the job of sitting at a table at the entrance. Everyone who arrived presented their red envelope (with money) and had their names recorded. The money was counted beneath/behind the desk and recorded beside their names. Likewise, there was also a ledger of people who had helped (including the people collecting the money), and at the end, they were given cash in red envelopes by my wife and me. It's really mercenary in Taiwan. Anyway, the ledger is still around somewhere. My wife was one of the first of her university classmates to get married, but periodically one of them (who might not have spoken to her since then) lets her know that he or she is getting married and my wife (at least) is expected to go. If she can't go, she is still expected to send a red envelope (albeit for a lesser amount, since she wouldn't be eating their food). It is a debt. We didn't really make that money.

I believe the reason for doing it this way is not actually financial per se. Rather, by establishing all sorts of debts, it also creates social obligations, and this in turn creates much stronger family and community bonds. In my father-in-law's case, he is still in touch with dozens of people he knew as a young man for this reason alone. I would not be surprised if that were also the case in other cultures that are far more traditional than those in the West.

One final note. Apparently, in the past, particularly in rural areas of Taiwan, it used to be reasonably common to have strippers at weddings (and funerals!). All of my foreign friends here had heard of that tradition and kept pressuring me to get a stripper, but I didn't go through with it.
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#16

Men paying for weddings

With student loans and credit card debt, guys are effectively marrying with a reverse dowry.

Add in the massice amount of money to appease bridezilla, you're tying a ball and chain around your neck in more ways than one.

Saying "No" is very liberating, guys need to learn how to free themselves.
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#17

Men paying for weddings

Quote: (01-03-2015 06:23 AM)Beyond Borders Wrote:  

This thread seems to start with an assumption.

Do men pay in modern society? I assumed most of these events were a couples' thing (finance-wise), and since plenty of couples live together before getting married, I've even witnessed them joining efforts to save up for it. Unless there's an obvious salary gap in the relationship

How much time do you spend on THIS planet? Just kidding. In my experience, "joint" savings = the guys savings since she spends everything she makes on nail salon visits, shoes, dinners out, and $6 starbucks lattes. And "obvious salary gap" is an ancient phrase translated from the original Aramaic and which loosely translated means "every heterosexual relationship under the sun".

Not trying to be flip; you're a very accomplished poster. But to answer your and the OP's question: Yes, men pay. This started when couples started marrying older: A 22 yr old won't be able to pay for the wedding and daddy, who is at his peak earning power, will pay. But when the groom is 36 and the bride is 34 and the father of the bride is nearly 70, its not fair to ask the old dude to pay. And since the unwritten rule of all things women is that some man must pay the bill, that leaves the groom.
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#18

Men paying for weddings

Quote: (01-04-2015 12:45 AM)Feisbook Control Wrote:  

In Taiwan, and I am sure it is similar in other countries, the giving of cash at weddings then ties the receiver into attending other people's weddings (and thus, giving money). In my father-in-law's case, he was/is expected to attend the weddings of the children of all of the people he invited to my wedding. Those people will also be obligated to attend the wedding of my wife's younger brother in the future. Indeed, my wife and I are in a similar situation with her former classmates, etc. So, when people say that they make money from their weddings, they don't really. They receive the money in a lump sum and then pay it back periodically (which is an advantage, obviously).

In Taiwan, this is actually accounted for in a ledger. At our wedding, one of my wife's sisters and someone else (an aunt, I think), had the job of sitting at a table at the entrance. Everyone who arrived presented their red envelope (with money) and had their names recorded. The money was counted beneath/behind the desk and recorded beside their names. Likewise, there was also a ledger of people who had helped (including the people collecting the money), and at the end, they were given cash in red envelopes by my wife and me. It's really mercenary in Taiwan. Anyway, the ledger is still around somewhere. My wife was one of the first of her university classmates to get married, but periodically one of them (who might not have spoken to her since then) lets her know that he or she is getting married and my wife (at least) is expected to go. If she can't go, she is still expected to send a red envelope (albeit for a lesser amount, since she wouldn't be eating their food). It is a debt. We didn't really make that money.

Oh for fuck's sake - a bloody ledger !? The cultures I mentioned had nothing of that sort. If you make it like that I would rather pay for the wedding myself - thank you.

Besides - I am not going to get married unless it's a billionairess or I am a billionaire and don't give a shit, so I don't care about any customs anyway.
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#19

Men paying for weddings

Very insightful post Feisbook Control! Thanks for sharing that cultural insight into Taiwanese marriage practices!

Curious about the stripper tradition in weddings and specially funerals! Like for real, during funerals people would hire strippers? Could you share some insights as to the reasons behind this?

Is it the same in HKG and China? Maybe TravelerKai can chip in on that topic as he is THE China expert in here.

In some cultures in Asia but also in the Middle East, the bride and her family pay the engagement party, which can be quiet big and expensive and the groom and his family pay for the wedding. This is a way where both are contributing financially.

Very interesting, if not outright fascinating topic!
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#20

Men paying for weddings

Quote: (01-03-2015 09:42 AM)Rutting Elephant Wrote:  

Traditionally, the bride's family pays for the wedding. This was the case until at least the 1970s. It's funny how this custom has been effectively abolished and forgotten.

This is really my point. Most women demand a traditional wedding, subject to the traditional provision of a ring which would feed a family in the gem's home country for years.

Yet when it comes to paying for the self-indulgent day, tradition is quickly shelved.

We hear so much about how successful women are these days but nothing about modernising tradition which would mean they pay for the wedding day out of their professional success.
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#21

Men paying for weddings

Quote: (01-04-2015 01:12 AM)The Father Wrote:  

Not trying to be flip; you're a very accomplished poster. But to answer your and the OP's question: Yes, men pay. This started when couples started marrying older: A 22 yr old won't be able to pay for the wedding and daddy, who is at his peak earning power, will pay. But when the groom is 36 and the bride is 34 and the father of the bride is nearly 70, its not fair to ask the old dude to pay. And since the unwritten rule of all things women is that some man must pay the bill, that leaves the groom.

I take the point regarding marriages involving older people that was historically the case.

Had women paid for their own weddings, this would have been a natural evolution from tradition to modern given that they are apparently so accomplished and older when they marry. But no, the groom has to pay for his bride's financial independence from her father - it creates another compound effect of wealth transfer from the man.
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#22

Men paying for weddings

Quote: (01-04-2015 01:12 AM)The Father Wrote:  

How much time do you spend on THIS planet? Just kidding. In my experience, "joint" savings = the guys savings since she spends everything she makes on nail salon visits, shoes, dinners out, and $6 starbucks lattes. And "obvious salary gap" is an ancient phrase translated from the original Aramaic and which loosely translated means "every heterosexual relationship under the sun".

[Image: icon_lol.gif]

Yup. Woman seeks equality with a man of greater status - read - she seeks to equalise such a man by applying the rule, 'your money is ours and mine is my own'.
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#23

Men paying for weddings

Quote: (01-04-2015 03:47 AM)Vacancier Permanent Wrote:  

Very insightful post Feisbook Control! Thanks for sharing that cultural insight into Taiwanese marriage practices!

Curious about the stripper tradition in weddings and specially funerals! Like for real, during funerals people would hire strippers? Could you share some insights as to the reasons behind this?

Is it the same in HKG and China? Maybe TravelerKai can chip in on that topic as he is THE China expert in here.

In some cultures in Asia but also in the Middle East, the bride and her family pay the engagement party, which can be quiet big and expensive and the groom and his family pay for the wedding. This is a way where both are contributing financially.

Very interesting, if not outright fascinating topic!

Basically, as far as I can tell, in Taiwan, everything comes down to one of six things (or a combination thereof): food, money, luck, face, guanxi (connections/relationships) or spirits/ghosts, though not necessarily in that order. In this case, it's about the spirits.

Here is an article about it. Here is a video. I've never actually seen strippers here in the seven and a half years I've been living here. I currently live in a pretty rural part of the country, so I am surprised I haven't seen it here at some point. I think it's kept under wraps these days because it's both illegal and considered gauche.

As far as I can tell, it's specifically a Taiwanese cultural practice, though I couldn't say for sure.

Another wedding custom is giving out free cigarettes and betel nut (which is really disgusting, although it too is usually sold by scantily clad women, see here).

Zelcorpion: Rest assured, I am sure those people in other cultures know exactly what's what and who gave what. Perhaps they don't keep a physical ledger, but I'm sure more than one person keeps a mental ledger. It does seem really crass to Westerners the way Taiwanese do things, but you get used to it, and you see that in many ways, they're a very practical people, if quite materialistic. It makes more sense than getting three toasters.
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#24

Men paying for weddings

Quote: (01-04-2015 03:02 AM)Zelcorpion Wrote:  

Quote: (01-04-2015 12:45 AM)Feisbook Control Wrote:  

In Taiwan, and I am sure it is similar in other countries, the giving of cash at weddings then ties the receiver into attending other people's weddings (and thus, giving money). In my father-in-law's case, he was/is expected to attend the weddings of the children of all of the people he invited to my wedding. Those people will also be obligated to attend the wedding of my wife's younger brother in the future. Indeed, my wife and I are in a similar situation with her former classmates, etc. So, when people say that they make money from their weddings, they don't really. They receive the money in a lump sum and then pay it back periodically (which is an advantage, obviously).

In Taiwan, this is actually accounted for in a ledger. At our wedding, one of my wife's sisters and someone else (an aunt, I think), had the job of sitting at a table at the entrance. Everyone who arrived presented their red envelope (with money) and had their names recorded. The money was counted beneath/behind the desk and recorded beside their names. Likewise, there was also a ledger of people who had helped (including the people collecting the money), and at the end, they were given cash in red envelopes by my wife and me. It's really mercenary in Taiwan. Anyway, the ledger is still around somewhere. My wife was one of the first of her university classmates to get married, but periodically one of them (who might not have spoken to her since then) lets her know that he or she is getting married and my wife (at least) is expected to go. If she can't go, she is still expected to send a red envelope (albeit for a lesser amount, since she wouldn't be eating their food). It is a debt. We didn't really make that money.

Oh for fuck's sake - a bloody ledger !? The cultures I mentioned had nothing of that sort. If you make it like that I would rather pay for the wedding myself - thank you.

Besides - I am not going to get married unless it's a billionairess or I am a billionaire and don't give a shit, so I don't care about any customs anyway.

Hmmm....a ledger...this gives me an idea! A pussy ledger! Every time I pay her cell phone bill, buy her a car, etc, her ledger gets hit. And every time I get a BJ, it gets credited. IF HER ACCOUNT IS OVER-DRAWN, its time for me to "collect" [Image: banana.gif]
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#25

Men paying for weddings

Quote: (01-04-2015 04:09 AM)N°6 Wrote:  

Quote: (01-03-2015 09:42 AM)Rutting Elephant Wrote:  

Traditionally, the bride's family pays for the wedding. This was the case until at least the 1970s. It's funny how this custom has been effectively abolished and forgotten.

This is really my point. Most women demand a traditional wedding, subject to the traditional provision of a ring which would feed a family in the gem's home country for years.

Yet when it comes to paying for the self-indulgent day, tradition is quickly shelved.

We hear so much about how successful women are these days but nothing about modernising tradition which would mean they pay for the wedding day out of their professional success.

And by traditional, in the case of the bolded text, the appropriate term is "since 1938 when a diamond company tricked everyone into thinking diamonds engagement rings mattered". This drives me insane. The worst part is that even girls that know about this and agree that it's stupid still can't help themselves and want a diamond ring to show off to their friends. A woman's life truly revolves around validation.

Why would you ever marry one?
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