[DarkTriad]

Sickening but educational story where a woman shuts down an entire lab, leaving multiple people unemployed and lives destroyed, then heads to 2X to brag about it.

http://www.reddit.com/r/TwoXChromosomes/...troversial

[Peregrine]

The woman in question is a nosy bitch, but...

If true, the professor shouldn't have been sleeping with one of his lab assistants. Don't shit where you eat.

[Simeon_Strangelight]

(01-02-2015 01:26 AM)DarkTriad Wrote:  

Sickening but educational story where a woman shuts down an entire lab, leaving multiple people unemployed and lives destroyed, then heads to 2X to brag about it.

http://www.reddit.com/r/TwoXChromosomes/...troversial

First of all a relationship is not sexual assault. The whole boss-employee dynamic that is forbidden just works ten times more to entice female lust.

She essentially reported him and blew up the entire project with multi-million-dollar funding just so that she could placate her own feminist ideas.

Go feminism:



And then she goes online with indignation to somehow get validation for her Gestapo-crap.

Fucking bitch - the new cultural marxists - she obviously had to go high up to effectively destroy the entire project.

And the total abject hypocrisy about the female nature is the worst thing here. NOOO - women are never attracted to their older men superiors! That MUST BE rape, coercion or sexual harassment. That is such utter bullshit! In our times women can easily say no and don't risk jack shit in their career. In fact the guy risks more and it could very well be that the girl initiated the contact as we know that such dynamics are catnip for female hamster.

Fuck that bitch - here she is in a previous incarnation at Dachau:



But - yeah - tell me more why we need more female STEM workers.

[DarkTriad]

The funny part is where she intervened because she was afraid of what might happen to her lab...and the end result of her actions is the lab destroyed and everyone out of work. Why not just let 2 people be happy, mind your business, go get your Phd, and then run your own lab the way you see fit?

[VolandoVengoVolandoVoy]

I bet she's a frumpy 4 with bad skin.

[Easy_C]

Another situation where there's no good guys.

My parents come from that background(high level medical degrees) and I've heard that it's a very sleazy environment. You have professors who will put unqualified but attractive interns in their lab just so they can sleep with them(putting pussy over science), while the interns are no less blameless because they're more than happy to slut around in return for preferential access to career opportunities.

THAT is why I'm in favor of gender segregated workplaces. It's not because I believe women are incapable of certain kinds of work or vice versa(there's always outliers to the general rule), but because entangling sexual behavior and work is almost universally destructive. Name an industry and I can give you a half dozen examples where severe damage to the organization's mission or profitability was caused by people trying to get in each other's pants.

[samsamsam]

If she gets found out that she was the one that spoke up, when she applies for a job post PHD, I bet she will have a hard time finding a job.

[Shrodax]

(01-02-2015 03:36 AM)Peregrine Wrote:  

The woman in question is a nosy bitch, but...

If true, the professor shouldn't have been sleeping with one of his lab assistants. Don't shit where you eat.

What's the point of being a professor if you can't sleep with sexy undergrads?

Quote:

The first thing that bothered me about their relationship was the fact that it was in direct violation of our university policy, which states that professors are not to date students (power dynamic, university is afraid the student will feel scorned at the end of the relationship and later claim they were coerced into the whole thing). Knowing he was violating policy, I thought he was at risk of getting fired. If he got fired (he was going to be up for tenure the year I lodged my complaint), I knew the lab would cease to exist because his funding would go away. That would leave me without a place to do my research and finish my degree.
It was also awkward to watch him interact with her. He always sat next to her at meetings, he would hug her and touch her arms, he brought her Valentine's candy (and no one else), he would make her breakfast and bring it in for her, he made her smoked tofu (she was a vegetarian), he had her house sit and watch his cats when he traveled for business.
She was invited to things that were generally only for grad students- meeting professors on job talks, dinners where beer would be served, etc. Before I realized they were having a relationship, the professor asked me to work on a project I wasn't normally involved with. After I turned in the work, I found out that he had tasked me with creating data for the undergrad's grant application and that she was given credit for my work. She eventually did get that grant, won an award at our professional conference, and published the data, and I was never given credit for my involvement in the work.

She's clearly a jealous cunt who should have minded her own goddamn business and doesn't seem to understand contemporary scientific research is a collaborative effort.

[Simeon_Strangelight]

(01-02-2015 12:15 PM)Easy_C Wrote:  

THAT is why I'm in favor of gender segregated workplaces. It's not because I believe women are incapable of certain kinds of work or vice versa(there's always outliers to the general rule), but because entangling sexual behavior and work is almost universally destructive. Name an industry and I can give you a half dozen examples where severe damage to the organization's mission or profitability was caused by people trying to get in each other's pants.

Nah - no reason to separate the genders completely. The few super-high IQ women who are really interested in STEM should not be barred from it.

Some huge corporations have excellent rules in place of how to deal with the all the fucking going on. At some companies you need several recommendations for advancement sometimes from up the hierarchy, but also sideways and even with some comments from the people below. That way bullshitters have a hard time to advance. While it is generally forbidden for people to have affairs with direct subordinates, all it takes really is a declaration - that way everyone knows and you cannot really advance that person. After some time one or the other person is encouraged to move to a different department to avoid long-term conflicts of interest - that's actually no biggie there. I am speaking from my experiences in Europe here, because the US may be different due to crazy legal system and the ability of female workers to sue the bejeezus out of anyone who even lays a finger on a fat entitled female ass.

Universities are however still stuck in the antiquated 1950s perception of something not being "proper" because a 32yo professor starts fucking his 23yo graduate student. All of this is even getting worse due to the rape cultere crap. Universities should look to some corporations for guidance and have different rules set up.

But it won't happen of course - feminist doctrine rules supreme.

[EisenBarde]

But it's okay when Hugo Schwyzer was doing it?

[Kamikaze]

Have you guys read the story and Q&A?

Someone asked her:

Quote:

So, to clarify: Professor has extra-marital affair with his student and he allegedly gave her special treatment? What part of this story bothered you the most and what kind of special treatment was your friend given that you (and everyone else) weren't?

She responded:

Quote:

The first thing that bothered me about their relationship was the fact that it was in direct violation of our university policy, which states that professors are not to date students (power dynamic, university is afraid the student will feel scorned at the end of the relationship and later claim they were coerced into the whole thing). Knowing he was violating policy, I thought he was at risk of getting fired. If he got fired (he was going to be up for tenure the year I lodged my complaint), I knew the lab would cease to exist because his funding would go away. That would leave me without a place to do my research and finish my degree.

It was also awkward to watch him interact with her. He always sat next to her at meetings, he would hug her and touch her arms, he brought her Valentine's candy (and no one else), he would make her breakfast and bring it in for her, he made her smoked tofu (she was a vegetarian), he had her house sit and watch his cats when he traveled for business.

She was invited to things that were generally only for grad students- meeting professors on job talks, dinners where beer would be served, etc. Before I realized they were having a relationship, the professor asked me to work on a project I wasn't normally involved with. After I turned in the work, I found out that he had tasked me with creating data for the undergrad's grant application and that she was given credit for my work. She eventually did get that grant, won an award at our professional conference, and published the data, and I was never given credit for my involvement in the work.

I'm not saying I believe her 100%. But if this is true, she had every right to feel scorned and extremely angry.

What she should have done first is talk to the professor directly about her concerns regarding attribution of her work. This makes too much sense, so I understand why a pussy grad student wouldn't do this. The professor probably would have relented, knowing he had tenure coming up. Otherwise, she could have really gone scorched-earth and threatened to blow the whistle. Two offenses could have had him fired here, the first being the relationship, and the second not giving proper credit. If her story is true.

HIndsight is always 20/20, so I understand why she didn't go this route.

But these stories of the professor don't paint him in the best light. He's banging an undergrad and being open about their relationship, and he doesn't have tenure yet? Goes to show, book smarts and social savvy don't always go hand in hand.

I'm not white knighting for the bitch. She could have handled it better, and her OP is soaked in SJW doublespeak. But if my work were used to prop up an undergrad without my recognition, I might choke someone.

To think. If he were discrete and gave credit where it was due, he could be enjoying his tenure, and prime young pussy, too.

[Genghis Khan]

^ Agreed. I would definitely be furious if my work was credited to an undergrad. Professor was definitely a moron for being so open about it. Most likely didn't get laid much in college/grad school and really enjoying the attention.

That said, in all honesty, I don't know what else she could've done. Once something has been submitted/accepted, you can't simply go back and say 'my bad, it was really my graduate student who did all the preliminary work'. That ship was long gone. Also, approaching him about it --- yeah, keep in mind the guy will be writing her recommendation letter after she graduates. And she'll never know what he's written.

Being a 'pussy' grad student may honestly be the best strategy in some scenarios. I've seen plenty of people have their careers burn down because they upset their advisers and got shitty recommendation letters. Keep in mind (for those on RVF who aren't in academia), your success early on in academia is based heavily on your recommendation letters, which you don't ever get to read! FYI, from the bit I know, the letters actually rank you relative to previous students. (Example: this student was better than Student C who is now a tenured professor at School Y). Some professors don't care about your personality. But a lot of them do because they have messed up problems of their own (huge egos mostly). At least one bitch I collaborate with will never get an academic position in her life because she's gotten into way too ugly arguments with her adviser.

I have a friend who is a young professor at Cornell. He says when they review the 500+ super strong applicants for an academic position, they look for the kiss of death first: anything negative no matter how small in your recommendation letter automatically disqualifies you. Had this girl gone to her adviser to demand proper recognition, her recommendation letter would have had one small sentence: "can occasionally be strong-headed" - kiss of death.

Honestly, the professor was an idiot. If he was really that obvious, he would've gotten caught sooner or later. Moral turpitude trumps tenure. And maybe it's better his lab got shut down now. Imagine his lab being 2 or 3 times bigger in 10 years and then getting shut down. Many more PhD students suddenly fucked over.

[Shrodax]

(01-02-2015 03:37 PM)Kamikaze Wrote:  

Have you guys read the story and Q&A?

Someone asked her:

Quote:

So, to clarify: Professor has extra-marital affair with his student and he allegedly gave her special treatment? What part of this story bothered you the most and what kind of special treatment was your friend given that you (and everyone else) weren't?

She responded:

Quote:

The first thing that bothered me about their relationship was the fact that it was in direct violation of our university policy, which states that professors are not to date students (power dynamic, university is afraid the student will feel scorned at the end of the relationship and later claim they were coerced into the whole thing). Knowing he was violating policy, I thought he was at risk of getting fired. If he got fired (he was going to be up for tenure the year I lodged my complaint), I knew the lab would cease to exist because his funding would go away. That would leave me without a place to do my research and finish my degree.

It was also awkward to watch him interact with her. He always sat next to her at meetings, he would hug her and touch her arms, he brought her Valentine's candy (and no one else), he would make her breakfast and bring it in for her, he made her smoked tofu (she was a vegetarian), he had her house sit and watch his cats when he traveled for business.

She was invited to things that were generally only for grad students- meeting professors on job talks, dinners where beer would be served, etc. Before I realized they were having a relationship, the professor asked me to work on a project I wasn't normally involved with. After I turned in the work, I found out that he had tasked me with creating data for the undergrad's grant application and that she was given credit for my work. She eventually did get that grant, won an award at our professional conference, and published the data, and I was never given credit for my involvement in the work.

I'm not saying I believe her 100%. But if this is true, she had every right to feel scorned and extremely angry.

What she should have done first is talk to the professor directly about her concerns considering attribution of her work. This makes too much sense, so I understand why a pussy grad student wouldn't do this. The professor probably would have relented, knowing he had tenure coming up. Otherwise, she could have really gone scorched-earth and threatened to blow the whistle. Two offenses could have had him fired here, the first being the relationship, and the second not giving proper credit. If her story is true.

HIndsight is always 20/20, so I understand why she didn't go this route.

But these stories of the professor don't paint him in the best light. He's banging an undergrad and being open about their relationship, and he doesn't have tenure yet? Goes to show, book smarts and social savvy don't always go hand in hand.

I'm not white knighting for the bitch. She could have handled it better, and her OP is soaked in SJW doublespeak. But if my work were used to prop up an undergrad without my recognition, I might choke someone.

To think. If he were discrete and gave credit where it was due, he could be enjoying his tenure, and prime young pussy, too.

Given her nosy, cunty wording of the first two paragraphs of her response, I'm really not inclined to believe she's telling the complete truth in her third paragraph. If she really did have her work outright stolen and is telling the truth about that, then why did she not begin her response with that? But no, in true bitchiness, she says the first thing to bother her is that the professor is violating the holy screed of university policy. And then she goes on to whine that it was "awkward to watch" her professor and the student.

If my research was stolen and credit given to another student, that's what I would be raising hell about, not about what students my professor was banging. She doesn't even disclose her work was stolen in her original post, only in a later comment. No, her original post was completely focused on her professor's relationship before veering into a word vomit of SJW ramblings, with her stolen research barely being an afterthought.

Thus, I can only conclude one thing: this girl is a miserable, insufferable, and jealous cunt who has no place in grad school.

[OBERYN_]

Exactly.

She first expresses concern that his conduct would adversely affect her work and subsequent PhD. Perfectly acceptable.

Second, she bitches about someone else getting candy (shocker) and her not getting any (another shocker).

Lastly, her scholarly and publishable, award and grant worthy work was stolen!

It's pretty standard that people raise the most cane over things that bother them most. Her third complaint is a possible career-defining moment/work. I say bullshit.

[Kamikaze]

@Genghis: Sometimes the best way is to go the pussy route, yes.

This is not the first story of its kind, nor the last. What she should have done was try to confront him, or walk out, which is the most reasonable advice actually. It could have spared a few people some headaches if she diplomatically said "I love the lab and your work, but my interests lie elsewhere. Thank you, bla bla bla" and gotten the hell out of dodge.

I was going to write about the rec letter angle. Yea, she was fucked either way. Choose your advisor wisely......

@Shrodax... I completely agree with you as well. Very telling she would bury the most serious offense in the 3rd paragraph of a comment and not front and center in the OP. That would have been my first damn paragraph: "Hi, my name is Bitch_scientist. I'm a PhD student and my work was attributed without recognition to an undergrad my advisor was sleeping with. I reported his-ass and I'm continuing with my PhD elsewhere. Bye bitches"

With a username like that, and then openly admitting she's "now working with the university to try and improve reporting and investigation procedures," she's hardly a reliable narrator. This girl could likely be more a rape culture hysteric than a victim of work theft or whatever.

Doesn't change, if the dude had been discrete... man, he was so close, SO CLOSE........

[Peregrine]

Quote:

What's the point of being a professor if you can't sleep with sexy undergrads?

Advancing knowledge and teaching in a field that you're passionate about? That aside, bang all the sexy undergrads that you want. Just not the ones that are currently in your class or report to you as your research assistant. It's unprofessional (and unethical).

Quote:

Given her nosy, cunty wording of the first two paragraphs of her response, I'm really not inclined to believe she's telling the complete truth in her third paragraph. If she really did have her work outright stolen and is telling the truth about that, then why did she not begin her response with that? But no, in true bitchiness, she says the first thing to bother her is that the professor is violating the holy screed of university policy. And then she goes on to whine that it was "awkward to watch" her professor and the student.

If my research was stolen and credit given to another student, that's what I would be raising hell about, not about what students my professor was banging. She doesn't even disclose her work was stolen in her original post, only in a later comment. No, her original post was completely focused on her professor's relationship before veering into a word vomit of SJW ramblings, with her stolen research barely being an afterthought.

Thus, I can only conclude one thing: this girl is a miserable, insufferable, and jealous cunt who has no place in grad school.

She probably is a miserable, insufferable, and jealous cunt (this is a safe statement to make about a random western girl, just playing the odds). Maybe she's making it all up. Not defending her, not going to start defending her.

But there are other reasons why she may have ordered her writing in the way that she did. One possible reason is that she simply does not prioritize the grievances in the way you, I, or the average male would. To us, the stolen work would be the most important. To her and the average female, it may well be the jealousy and social implications of the situation. Another possible reason is that she's writing with her audience in mind, /r/twox, which cares more about the gender aspect.

As Kamikaze has mentioned, academia is a fucked up place where some pretty awful abuses take place as a matter of course. Read 100rsns.blogspot.ca if you're interested.

Quote:

It could have spared a few people some headaches if she diplomatically said "I love the lab and your work, but my interests lie elsewhere. Thank you, bla bla bla" and gotten the hell out of dodge.

I was going to write about the rec letter angle. Yea, she was fucked either way. Choose your advisor wisely......

Agreed, this is the route I would have taken.

[BLarsen]

Somebody in comments alleges to be one of the people put out of work by this woman. Predictably the comments were deleted from the subreddit, but if you check the user page you get this...

Quote:

Wow, I can't believe I came across this. I am acutely aware of this situation as it has directly affected me, and quite frankly, I just want to set the record straight. I had worked in this lab, and was one of the people that lost my position due to this whole mess.
To set the record straight, yes there was a relationship with an undergraduate student and the faculty. No, it was not that big a deal, until the OP brought it up with the undergraduate student. The reason that she brought it up with the undergrad goes back to a meeting that both were late for.
In this meeting, the OP got chewed out (I would assume that this is the harassment she speaks about), while the undergrad did not. Now, the reason this had happened is simply because OP had been late multiple times for multiple staff meetings, while the undergraduate student was mostly on time. She took this very personally, and decided to report this relationship. There was no sexual harassment as she states, only the yelling a supervisor would do.
It is true that this caused the funding to cease. This is the primary motivation for no one wanting her to join their lab. She cost the school millions over a personal vendetta. This is also why she is not working in academia and is pursuing a "start up". No one would write her any letters of recommendation.
As for the faculty member that was fired, as she said, he is currently at his old university in a teaching/research position, and last I had heard, he had recouped the funding that had been lost to him.

[WestIndianArchie]

He was wrong two ways.
Dating a student
Letting student get the credit.

For a grad student, where does she have power?
Her work being misattributed, or throwing the professor under the bus?

Or are you people unfamiliar with university politics?

WIA

[Simeon_Strangelight]

(01-02-2015 06:55 PM)BLarsen Wrote:  

Somebody in comments alleges to be one of the people put out of work by this woman. Predictably the comments were deleted from the subreddit, but if you check the user page you get this...

Quote:

Wow, I can't believe I came across this. I am acutely aware of this situation as it has directly affected me, and quite frankly, I just want to set the record straight. I had worked in this lab, and was one of the people that lost my position due to this whole mess.
To set the record straight, yes there was a relationship with an undergraduate student and the faculty. No, it was not that big a deal, until the OP brought it up with the undergraduate student. The reason that she brought it up with the undergrad goes back to a meeting that both were late for.
In this meeting, the OP got chewed out (I would assume that this is the harassment she speaks about), while the undergrad did not. Now, the reason this had happened is simply because OP had been late multiple times for multiple staff meetings, while the undergraduate student was mostly on time. She took this very personally, and decided to report this relationship. There was no sexual harassment as she states, only the yelling a supervisor would do.
It is true that this caused the funding to cease. This is the primary motivation for no one wanting her to join their lab. She cost the school millions over a personal vendetta. This is also why she is not working in academia and is pursuing a "start up". No one would write her any letters of recommendation.
As for the faculty member that was fired, as she said, he is currently at his old university in a teaching/research position, and last I had heard, he had recouped the funding that had been lost to him.

Good to hear that everyone got what he or she deserved.

And the professor got his funding back - maybe even fucking the student again - or another one - who cares?

The story sounds more credible that way - gender-rape-culture-SJW is pissed and blows up the whole crap. This was almost a career-ending move as no one in his right mind would hire her for a research project again.

[Genghis Khan]

(01-02-2015 06:55 PM)BLarsen Wrote:  

Somebody in comments alleges to be one of the people put out of work by this woman. Predictably the comments were deleted from the subreddit, but if you check the user page you get this...

Quote:

Wow, I can't believe I came across this. I am acutely aware of this situation as it has directly affected me, and quite frankly, I just want to set the record straight. I had worked in this lab, and was one of the people that lost my position due to this whole mess.
To set the record straight, yes there was a relationship with an undergraduate student and the faculty. No, it was not that big a deal, until the OP brought it up with the undergraduate student. The reason that she brought it up with the undergrad goes back to a meeting that both were late for.
In this meeting, the OP got chewed out (I would assume that this is the harassment she speaks about), while the undergrad did not. Now, the reason this had happened is simply because OP had been late multiple times for multiple staff meetings, while the undergraduate student was mostly on time. She took this very personally, and decided to report this relationship. There was no sexual harassment as she states, only the yelling a supervisor would do.
It is true that this caused the funding to cease. This is the primary motivation for no one wanting her to join their lab. She cost the school millions over a personal vendetta. This is also why she is not working in academia and is pursuing a "start up". No one would write her any letters of recommendation.
As for the faculty member that was fired, as she said, he is currently at his old university in a teaching/research position, and last I had heard, he had recouped the funding that had been lost to him.

Wait, how the fuck is this possible? A professor lost his job for dating an undergrad he was advising, as admitted by this commenter. I know some members on this board don't think it's a big deal, but it is considered sexual misconduct and highly unethical by all universities. Yet he still got hired by another university? Same with funding, how did he 'recoup' the funding?

Unless I'm mistaken, if you're convicted of dating your underling and FIRED FOR IT, your academic career is over. What university would give that guy a job after that?

[Easy_C]

[quote] (01-02-2015 01:41 PM)Zelcorpion Wrote:  

[quote='Easy_C' pid='920581' dateline='1420218919']


Some huge corporations have excellent rules in place of how to deal with the all the fucking going on. At some companies you need several recommendations for advancement sometimes from up the hierarchy, but also sideways and even with some comments from the people below. That way bullshitters have a hard time to advance.[/quote]

It's a partial but effective fix. In the military the Marine Corps is the only branch of the military that uses peer reviews of officers at all grades. Just "coincidentally" they also are the only branch of service that hasn't had large numbers of its senior leaders caught up in misconduct scandals during the past few years.

What you suggest can be an effective countermeasure in many(but not even close to all) cases. People tend to feel shortchanged by things like what we're discussing and, quite justifiably, tend to gang up on the person responsible. Giving them a voice for promotions helps catch it.

[coverdoc]

(01-02-2015 06:55 PM)BLarsen Wrote:  

Somebody in comments alleges to be one of the people put out of work by this woman. Predictably the comments were deleted from the subreddit, but if you check the user page you get this...

Quote:

Wow, I can't believe I came across this. I am acutely aware of this situation as it has directly affected me, and quite frankly, I just want to set the record straight. I had worked in this lab, and was one of the people that lost my position due to this whole mess.
To set the record straight, yes there was a relationship with an undergraduate student and the faculty. No, it was not that big a deal, until the OP brought it up with the undergraduate student. The reason that she brought it up with the undergrad goes back to a meeting that both were late for.
In this meeting, the OP got chewed out (I would assume that this is the harassment she speaks about), while the undergrad did not. Now, the reason this had happened is simply because OP had been late multiple times for multiple staff meetings, while the undergraduate student was mostly on time. She took this very personally, and decided to report this relationship. There was no sexual harassment as she states, only the yelling a supervisor would do.
It is true that this caused the funding to cease. This is the primary motivation for no one wanting her to join their lab. She cost the school millions over a personal vendetta. This is also why she is not working in academia and is pursuing a "start up". No one would write her any letters of recommendation.
As for the faculty member that was fired, as she said, he is currently at his old university in a teaching/research position, and last I had heard, he had recouped the funding that had been lost to him.

IF true:

[OBERYN_]

"Unless I'm mistaken, if you're convicted of dating your underling and FIRED FOR IT, your academic career is over. What university would give that guy a job after that?"


I can't speak to the professor or his research but I would think given his STEM background and the fact he was given a grant and a team of doctoral candidates to do research, that many major universities care more about the possible money or outright human advances his work could produce. The misgivings of an invariably fat, jealous twat wouldn't weigh heavily on their minds.

Just think, as per the female's own admission, this all could have be avoided if she were given some chocolates on Valentine's. And this is not being facetious.

[Peregrine]

Hell truly hath no comparable fury.

[Kamikaze]

(01-02-2015 09:48 PM)Genghis Khan Wrote:  

Wait, how the fuck is this possible? A professor lost his job for dating an undergrad ... Unless I'm mistaken, if you're convicted of dating your underling and FIRED FOR IT, your academic career is over. What university would give that guy a job after that?

I do find the story itself fishy. Only 2 people had to find different advisers, 2 graduated early, one lab manager presumably went some place else for a job.

You're telling me one of these 5 people came across this obscure reddit thread? Maybe it made the rounds on facebook, or the person was pointed to it, but it's strange. I also agree with Genghis, it's fucked up to date an undergrad you actively advise, and most people think that way. That this person said 'It was not that big a deal...' something's off. On both sides.

Anyway, enough reddit for today.