[It_is_my_time]

(12-20-2014 07:00 PM)Texas_Tryhard Wrote:  

(12-20-2014 06:33 PM)The Reactionary Tree Wrote:  

(12-20-2014 06:04 PM)Texas_Tryhard Wrote:  

(12-20-2014 06:00 PM)Days of Broken Arrows Wrote:  

(12-20-2014 05:56 PM)The Reactionary Tree Wrote:  

This is all because the media inciting uproar over Mike Brown and Eric Garner. Are you SWPLs happy now? Your retarded little hashtag activism is getting police officers killed.

I also blame the American media for this if it was "retaliatory." They misreported the Brown story and incited anger to boost their ratings. I shudder to think how they'll cover this. I'm sure Sabrina Rubin-Erdley is on the case as we speak.

What do you think of the Eric Garner case?

Personally, I think the Brown case is a clear-cut incident in which Brown was responsible for his own death, and the misrepresentation by the media that it was somehow a controversy is disgusting.

If you are so physically unfit that you keel over and die from police throwing your ass down because you are screaming at them, then maybe you shouldn't try to act like a badass towards the police.

Ah, so you're saying he got what was coming to him. Poor health is justifiable license to kill for any cop and his buddies who decide to put you in a chokehold (that was previously recognized as dangerous by the NYPD and thus its use was banned) for loudly disagreeing with them? Or did I misinterpret your post?

It_is_my_time,

A chokehold does not necessarily cause damage to the trachea, just as a punch to the head does not necessarily damage the head. C'mon now. The medical examiner (link below) "said compression of the neck and chest, along with Garner's positioning on the ground while being restrained by police during the July 17 stop on Staten Island, caused his death." He also said "Garner's acute and chronic bronchial asthma, obesity and hypertensive cardiovascular disease were contributing factors"

I think it's obvious that a fully healthy adult male would have survived this encounter. But in order for that to be important, you'd have to set a precedent that police officers can assume that anyone they are subduing using banned procedures is in good health. I think that's a dangerous precedent to set.

http://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/local/Eri...96151.html

I don't know what you would call it. I just heard the reason that the grand jury decided to not press charges was the cop did not use what was considered an illegal chokehold. So what he did use was legal and the cause of death was as much due to his poor health as the hold itself.

The Grand Jury could have got it wrong. I do know that something this minor is so little to be upset about compared to the conditions in these areas of the urban city and how things just continue to get worse and worse. The anger should be far less towards the police, who keep the areas some what safe, and towards the feminist policies that kicked dads out of the house and continue to grow the welfare state encouraging more and more single moms, which in turn creates more and more violence and poverty.

[It_is_my_time]

(12-20-2014 07:30 PM)jimukr104 Wrote:  

(12-20-2014 07:09 PM)It_is_my_time Wrote:  

jimukr104, your best point is the anger at the economy. The economy is a complete disaster right now and the real pain is yet to be felt. We so far have been allowed to throw trillions of dollars away (pay back political donors) and borrow money an unsustainable interest rates. As bad as the economy is right now, it is going to get a lot worse. And there is a lot of very badly directed anger due to it. People have a lot more free time on their hands, and a lot less opportunity. It is a powder keg right now.

Maybe if the Republicans will stick to their word and cut off a least some of the waste and roll back some of the 2,000 page bills full of regulations, we can get the economy to kick start. But I am sure not holding my breath on it.

Good point but about this:

Quote:

If this is true, then the media is to blame again. They reported he used an "illegal choke hold". If there was no damage to the trachea, then it would instead be a headlock, which would be legal. And this was the reason the Grand Jury decided charges were not warranted.

Even if it was a CHOKE HOLD it isn't ILLEGAL. It is just not allowed in the NYPD. Understand the difference?

If you show up late to work you can get fired right? You violated a work rule but you can't go to jail or be sued right? You didn't break the law. Nor did that short small guy who couldn't do a proper choke hold.

As long as choke-holds are legal in the state of NY... a cop can't be arrested for negligence (it never murder because there isn't intention).

And here is the bigger problem. Again it is politics. Governor Cuomo is taking the cops side in this for his own agenda even and has little intention of changing state law.

That means all these protests make no sense because De Blassio can't really change the law to appease the protesters. Only the Governor can!

And as it stands regardless if it was a choke hold or NOT...there was no violation of law!

From what I read (ME reports) he couldn't breath because of his OWN WEIGHT constricting airflow when he was on his stomach/chest. I t wasn't constriction of air from his neck so regardless of chokehold or NOT he didn't die from that. I think their have been cases where people died from their own position and weight(often senior citizens) so it isn't impossible.

But again there is no rule telling cops NOT to put people on the ground laying on their stomach (nor do they have EMS/medical training to recognize such stress).

Quite the opposite! Tactic instructors teach for officer safety to always have the perp (he was a perp btw) on their stomach so they can't get up fast to attack and/or so they can't see well. Remember if they don't see the officer it is harder for them to plan an attack.

This raises the question...what can be different? in the future is their other tactics that decrease injury to perp without decreasing officer safety? Not sure..I am not a martial arts expert. And again realize that the corrupt gov't wouldn't even want to spend much more for such training.

My point wasn't that the chokehold was not illegal to use. My point was the grand jury determined it wasn't a chokehold, or if it was a chokehold was within the guidelines.

The Grand Jury could not decide that the officer used a chokehold that was against policy and at the same time say to not press charges. Or at least they should not.

And I don't have the time or desire to sit through the hours and hours of evidence presented to them that made them come to this conclusion.

[Texas_Tryhard]

(12-20-2014 07:31 PM)It_is_my_time Wrote:  

I don't know what you would call it. I just heard the reason that the grand jury decided to not press charges was the cop did not use what was considered an illegal chokehold. So what he did use was legal and the cause of death was as much due to his poor health as the hold itself.

The Grand Jury could have got it wrong. I do know that something this minor is so little to be upset about compared to the conditions in these areas of the urban city and how things just continue to get worse and worse. The anger should be far less towards the police, who keep the areas some what safe, and towards the feminist policies that kicked dads out of the house and continue to grow the welfare state encouraging more and more single moms, which in turn creates more and more violence and poverty.

I think the fact that someone has shot two police officers using this as his justification is important enough to make it a big issue.

[It_is_my_time]

(12-20-2014 07:36 PM)Texas_Tryhard Wrote:  

(12-20-2014 07:31 PM)It_is_my_time Wrote:  

I don't know what you would call it. I just heard the reason that the grand jury decided to not press charges was the cop did not use what was considered an illegal chokehold. So what he did use was legal and the cause of death was as much due to his poor health as the hold itself.

The Grand Jury could have got it wrong. I do know that something this minor is so little to be upset about compared to the conditions in these areas of the urban city and how things just continue to get worse and worse. The anger should be far less towards the police, who keep the areas some what safe, and towards the feminist policies that kicked dads out of the house and continue to grow the welfare state encouraging more and more single moms, which in turn creates more and more violence and poverty.

I think the fact that people are now shooting police officers and using this as their justification is important enough to make it a big issue.

It is a very big issue to people who are very misguided and should be worried about the real causes of their plight.

Rather than worry about one off cases like this, they should look at the destruction of the family unit due to feminism.

If only 1/10th the energy was put into stopping feminism, that is the source cause for all this, as these one off cases, we might see a real change for the better.

[jimukr104]

Quote:

'm going to use the "ban" word, because banned is a good description of the chokehold the officer used. The police are authorized to use violent and deadly force at their discretion, with the understanding that they are given training to minimize harm when possible, and that they are to abide by this training. This training involves using techniques to bring down criminals in a way that causes minimal medical damage to the subject. If the officer decides to deviate from his training and use techniques that were banned specifically because of their danger to the subject, then I believe he should be FULLY AND COMPLETELY RESPONSIBLE when those techniques have unintended outcomes. Is any part of this paragraph disagreeable to you?

Agreed..but it still isn't criminal. The dept made that rule (politics mostly) but it isn't proven that it is more dangerous to perps. Nor does the gov't as a whole agree with that. NYPD can't persecute criminals for doing things that are legal statewide. That other police dept's actually use. It is a work rule no different than the analogy I made in legal terms. Of course a work rule relating to police is going to have more dangers to it than being late.

You must have missed another post I posted that many EXPERTS in law enforcement actually think that chokeholds are less dangerous than other methods due to the fact that it takes down the perp faster and less chance of injury that a long struggle ensures. In law enforcement, safety to all includes a take down that is fast.

Quote:

The police are authorized to use violent and deadly force at their discretion, with the understanding that they are given training to minimize harm when possible, and that they are to abide by this training.

Bingo..and those officers at the scene (under the supervision of 2 bosses btw) obviously did that.They didn't take out guns or batons which would have been overkill..maybe!

I was in the academy 8 months..where is this training you speak of? lol. I assure you they did no such thing. Funny how you know about what training I had(rolls eyes)

In fact I remember giving each other head locks that looked VERY similar to what I saw in the video. I also remember being told..constantly that in a fight do everything to increase our safety!
They told us NO choke holds that was it lol!

Quote:

Also, the slippery slope fallacy is often blatantly present in your posts. I refuse to address slippery slope arguments.

That is your problem,I telling it like it is, but the NYC law enforcement model for the last 20 years has been the 'broken window enforcement' so it might come across as SLIPPERY SLOPE, but that is what had drived down crime in the last 2 decades and the majority of New Yorker's don't want that changed. In fact the protesters demand a change and the Mayor even stated that he has no intention of changing that. The whole model is based on stopping 'could be crimes' by enforcing smaller stuff.

[Geomann180]

It's evident that the police do not police their own.

It will be no surprise to me when retaliation like this becomes more common.

G

[Days of Broken Arrows]

(12-20-2014 06:33 PM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:  

(12-20-2014 05:53 PM)Days of Broken Arrows Wrote:  

(12-20-2014 05:48 PM)Constitution45 Wrote:  

I wonder if police officers may start to refuse to police predominately black neighbourhoods. The chances of something going wrong and the political backlash that follows, could be a possible solution in the future.

Black?!

This was in Brooklyn. The place is not only white now, it's very very white. It's like Ivory Snow and the winter snow mixed together. Its like white out and typing paper.

Word on the street is that a couple of Brooklynite artiste hipsters snapped and went on a shooting spree because they're decaf lattes contained, er, caf.

They've already gotten the police artist to sketch one of the perps and he looks a little like this:

Unless that particular spot in Bed Stuy changed DRASTICALLY in the past 2 years from when I lived there, that area is still very black and Latino. You make it sound like it's Poughkeepsie or Central Park West.

https://www.google.com/maps/place/Brookl...9a9ac531dc

Dude is still illegally selling t-shirts and bric a brac on the street.

Clinton Hill and Fort Greene (which are close by) are whiter than they were 10 years ago, but not lily white.
Not like we're talking Park Slope or Carrol Gardens. (which might as well be Long Island in terms of whiteness)

Despite what people tell you, Williamsburg still has some of its original residents as well. Often times the gentrifiers live in the same buildings, but just have better apartments and 3x the rent.

20 years from now, assuming that the NYC remains the capital of finance and culture, it will be whiter, but there are still a fair amount of black and latinos in Brooklyn.

WIA

My reply was clearly a joke. Read it again. It's graveyard humor. Maybe this doesn't work outside newspaper offices.

Did anyone really think Pajama Boy snapped because he got the wrong latte?

[jimukr104]

(12-20-2014 07:54 PM)jimukr104 Wrote:  

Quote:

'm going to use the "ban" word, because banned is a good description of the chokehold the officer used. The police are authorized to use violent and deadly force at their discretion, with the understanding that they are given training to minimize harm when possible, and that they are to abide by this training. This training involves using techniques to bring down criminals in a way that causes minimal medical damage to the subject. If the officer decides to deviate from his training and use techniques that were banned specifically because of their danger to the subject, then I believe he should be FULLY AND COMPLETELY RESPONSIBLE when those techniques have unintended outcomes. Is any part of this paragraph disagreeable to you?

Agreed..but it still isn't criminal. The dept made that rule (politics mostly) but it isn't proven that it is more dangerous to perps. Nor does the gov't as a whole agree with that. NYPD can't persecute criminals for doing things that are legal statewide. That other police dept's actually use. It is a work rule no different than the analogy I made in legal terms. Of course a work rule relating to police is going to have more dangers to it than being late.

You must have missed another post I posted that many EXPERTS in law enforcement actually think that chokeholds are less dangerous than other methods due to the fact that it takes down the perp faster and less chance of injury that a long struggle ensures. In law enforcement, safety to all includes a take down that is fast.

Quote:

The police are authorized to use violent and deadly force at their discretion, with the understanding that they are given training to minimize harm when possible, and that they are to abide by this training.

Bingo..and those officers at the scene (under the supervision of 2 bosses btw) obviously did that.They didn't take out guns or batons which would have been overkill..maybe!

I was in the academy 8 months..where is this training you speak of? lol. I assure you they did no such thing. Funny how you know about what training I had(rolls eyes)

In fact I remember giving each other head locks that looked VERY similar to what I saw in the video. I also remember being told..constantly that in a fight do everything to increase our safety!
They told us NO choke holds that was it lol!

Quote:

Also, the slippery slope fallacy is often blatantly present in your posts. I refuse to address slippery slope arguments.

That is your problem,I telling it like it is, but the NYC law enforcement model for the last 20 years has been the 'broken window enforcement' so it might come across as SLIPPERY SLOPE, but that is what had drived down crime in the last 2 decades and the majority of New Yorker's don't want that changed. In fact the protesters demand a change and the Mayor even stated that he has no intention of changing that. The whole model is based on stopping 'could be crimes' by enforcing smaller stuff.

Quote:

Some guy sells loose cigarettes, something one guy should have given him a ticket for, and is strangled to death. On camera, while screaming I can't breath.

1. Guy got of him when he heard he couldn't breath.

2. Actually you NEVER see other footage of what took place before. They were trying to talk him down.

Truth is they told him that they would take him in for a desk appearance TICKET(DAT). Those tickets have to be given in the station because they have to be approved by the ADA and of course a warrant check has to be done to make sure he can get one , meaning he isn't wanted on other warrants.
He chose to say that he isn't going to be taken in,his words were something like ' this ends today, fighting/resisting words.

But if he cooperated and didn't have other pending charges, he would have been given a DAT. Maybe he knew he had other charges he was hiding??? Who the fuck knows.

But what I do know is that there isn't any summons(ticket) written in the street for what he was doing. Pretty sure if there was the average cop would have done it since it is much easier.

As for racism. None from the cops that is for sure. The sgt. who ordered it was black even.

But ironically in NYC a white guy or any race who cooperated would get a DAT. The black guy thinks he should get different treatment? wtf? Why is a DAT good enough for a white guy or a Chinese peddler but not good enough for Eric? Yeah your right it is racism..from Erics part!

Act like everyone else and maybe he would have been treated like everyone else?

The most guilty of racism could be said to be the victim/complainant who called 911. You realize that the call came over the radio right?
He was reported by someone.. a civilian. Maybe the bodega owner..perhaps? Was it because he was costing the store owner cigarette sales? Was it because the owner thought a black guy that big is intimidating his customers?

These are questions we may never get the answer of. But I think if the bodega owner was losing business to a cigarette seller outside his entrance, he wouldn't care what color the guy was.

I also don't think cops came quicker due to his color. I will say the area..mostly Italian is probably among one of the most racist in the city. But that is the topic for a different conversation.

[Hotwheels]

It wasn't much of a choke hold if the guy could clearly say he couldn't breathe.

Looked more like an asthma attack.

[MidWest]

The weird thing about this is that both these police officers were minorities. One was Hispanic and the other was Asian. Still horrible for these officers to die since all they were doing was patrolling the area.

Their names were Wenjian Liu and Rafael Ramos.

[jimukr104]

(12-20-2014 07:31 PM)Goldin Boy Wrote:  

(12-20-2014 05:48 PM)Constitution45 Wrote:  

I wonder if police officers may start to refuse to police predominately black neighbourhoods. The chances of something going wrong and the political backlash that follows, could be a possible solution in the future.

Quote:

"As a police officer, I'm not going to patrol my beat because it's too dangerous due to the Black residents".

Say that aloud to realize how silly it sounds.

Maybe Santitation workers will strike due trash being too smelly and FDNY won't work because burning buildings are too hot?

I work customer service. The rudest, most aggressive patrons I deal with are predominantly Black ( I am too). If I refuse to deal with them I will be fired. Same will happen to those cops.

You're suggesting insubordination which is ground for dismissal from most jobs. No lawsuit will get them their jobs back or any sort of unemployment benefits so, no it won't happen.

Agreed they wouldn't do that. They would do what I mentioned

1. slowdown..CITYWIDE. Means work less, at ones own pace. Plus if cops go by the book they can really SLOW things down. Perfectly legal.

2. Strike. Yes it violates the Taylor law but 'shrugs". All they can do is fine cops money for each day off. MTA and Corrections officers had that done to them, but the Correction union even paid the officers for the days they were docked pay.
Also the city itself has violated the same law by not negotiating in good faith in the past. For not striking..the gov't is expected to negotiate in good faith otherwise the law would be corrupt.

Pat Lynch has political aspirations so he has never had the balls to do so in the past. Unlike MTA that goes on strike or threatens it every few years.

3. Something I forgot to mention. HAHAHA ..MU HAHAHA. I am laughing because it is genius.

Cops have unlimited sick leave. They can do a city wide sick out or even one in the BAD areas. All the cop has to do is call in sick. I have seen it done on tours before. NOTHING the bosses can do..it is a contractual right. Fuck it they can all go pysch leave with pay..say they are stressed out by the shit going on. I know cops who been out over a year for that.

In any case they can't be fired if it is a job action (but the union can be fined) and they have leverage.

Unlike the air traffic controllers that were easily replaced due to many who were waiting to replace them..the city can't just replace the cops. Where is the Mayor going to find 30k trained and LICENSED POLICE OFFICERS?

In NYS , just like many professions, cops are licensed by the state. There aren't transfers from other states (like in the tv shows) without going though the academy. It would be illegal.

Plus the background tests takes months , so it would take at least 9 months to get any cops legal to take over. And over a decade to get 30k of them lol.

In addition the state controls the license and the governor , as well as most of upstate politicians are VERY pro cop compared to the liberal cesspool that is NYC. The governor is taking the union side here so far. Seems the Mayor isn't liked!

[jimukr104]

(12-20-2014 08:21 PM)MidWest Wrote:  

The weird thing about this is that both these police officers were minorities. One was Hispanic and the other was Asian. Still horrible for these officers to die since all they were doing was patrolling the area.

Their names were Wenjian Liu and Rafael Ramos.

Actually the Asian society of the NYPD should go on strike for racism. They are disproportionately being abused here. One of the Lt's that got punch was Asian and the Sgt who got attacked on the Brooklyn Bridge was Asian. The % being attacked are much higher than the % of their ranks within the job.
Half the dept is Minority so the racism charges makes one roll eyes.

Lets call this an ISIS plot! They must be loving this!

[Easy E]

(12-20-2014 05:04 PM)Avarence Wrote:  

Multiple sources now report both officers dead.

This is an absolute shame to hear and should be a national outrage.
Of course, in America, respecting police officers is not "in" or popular, so I don't expect much.

[floor7]

(12-20-2014 08:37 PM)Easy E Wrote:  

(12-20-2014 05:04 PM)Avarence Wrote:  

Multiple sources now report both officers dead.

This is an absolute shame to hear and should be a national outrage.
Of course, in America, respecting police officers is not "in" or popular, so I don't expect much.

The irony of your response considering your screen name.

[WestIndianArchie]

(12-20-2014 08:21 PM)MidWest Wrote:  

The weird thing about this is that both these police officers were minorities. One was Hispanic and the other was Asian. Still horrible for these officers to die since all they were doing was patrolling the area.

Their names were Wenjian Liu and Rafael Ramos.

Asian cop gunned down a black guy in the projects.

Asian dude and his partner were walking up the staircase.
Staircase unlit.

In a horrible accident, the gun went off and killed a black guy coming down the stairs.
The black guy of course was a felon with a mile long rap sheet.

WHY WAS THE GUN OUT OF THE HOLSTER?

"Liang drew a flashlight and his weapon "for safety reasons," the police commissioner said."

Cops roaming America like they're in Waziristan.

http://www.cnn.com/2014/11/21/us/new-yor...-shooting/

Want another one

http://www.wwltv.com/story/news/local/la.../20434835/

"My little brother thought somebody was just clowning, because somebody is always clowning by the door. He opened (it) and the man just shot him. He didn't have nothing in his hand."

There are dozens of these stories if you want to look for them.

Race is a factor in many situations.

But put a badge on a gun on anyone, black/asian/white....

The cops shouldn't be gunning people down, period.

White cops shouldn't shoot white people, black people, Latinos, Asians, Indians, Arabs.

Black cops shouldn't do it.
Asian cops shouldn't do it.
Latino cops shouldn't do it.

You don't have to go in with guns blazing, with a kill-or-be-killed mentality.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bundy_standoff

A white army of patriots gathered to help a federal criminal take back his cattle, that had been lawfully confiscated on Federal property.

"The Las Vegas Review-Journal reported that tensions reached a "critical level" during the standoff, "with rifles pointing toward each side."[8] Las Vegas station KLAS-TV also reported that guns were pointed at officers"

Bloodshed? Start of the on-coming race war?

Naw.

Law Enforcement de-escalated the situation. That's what a professional does. Violence as a last resort, not the first thing on your mind, "omg these thugs are gonna shoot me."

Meanwhile the Federal Supreme Court allows for prosecutors to mention that you remained silent when cops were questioning you.

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_p...ilent.html

You guys don't see it. Complain about Obamacare as an intrusion, but are okay with local agents of government killing your fellow citizens, or bombing people with drones in Pakistan.

The same guns and technology used against Osama gets sent to Ferguson, MO and Danbury, CT.

All of this shit is connected.

This ain't partisanship, or paranoia.

Just facts. Facts you can go out and confirm yourself.

WIA

[floor7]

WIA gets it. Odd to see so many supplicants pedestaling the defacto white knights of the corrupt state.

[Hotwheels]

I'm not a huge fan of cops, but celebrating two of them being gunned down just because they are cops is not something I will ever do.

[Jevioso]

(12-20-2014 07:31 PM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:  

How hard is it to not kill someone?

Jared Loughner killed 6 people, and was taken down ALIVE.

Some guy sells loose cigarettes, something one guy should have given him a ticket for, and is strangled to death. On camera, while screaming I can't breath. And the grand jury decides not to indict. Mainly because the legislation excuses what a person can do as the agent of the state.

You think anyone is protesting over the fact that that cops are driving around cars that need emissions testing?

Distract, distract, distract.

But you're distracting yourself from the truth.

It's too much for your mind to comprehend that the State will allow its agents to take a life for trivial reasons.

Here's one for you,

http://www.myfoxhouston.com/story/276456...t-incident

A man falls asleep in his bathtub.

For whatever reason makes sense to someone who lives in a lily white suburb, a concerned citizen calls the cops.

"A SWAT team was summoned."

"They told a judge I had hostages. They lied to a judge and told him I had hostages in my apartment and they needed to enter," said Chadwick."

"While I had my hands up naked in the shower they shot me with a 40 millimeter non-lethal round," said Chadwick."

"They claimed I drew down with a shampoo bottle and a body wash bottle," said Chadwick."

"Chadwick, who hadn't broken a single law when SWAT burst through his door, was taken to the Ft. Bend County Jail with a fractured nose, bruised ribs and what's proven to be permanent hearing loss."

"Ft. Bend County District Attorney John Healy sought to indict Chadwick on two felony counts of assaulting a police officer, but a Grand Jury said no law was broken.

It could have stopped there, but Healy's prosecutors tried misdemeanor charges of resisting arrest, calling more than a dozen officers to testify. Those charges were dropped as well."

What does Chadwick look like? Some poor black "thug" with neck tattoos and a long rap sheet, saggy pants?



Even if you don't give a fuck about racism, and it's evident that I most of you people don't,
you should give a fuck about the police state that you're living in.

Where honest white men can get brutalized for no good reason, and then railroaded by the Justice system, no one is free.

In absolute numbers, more white men are killed every year by cops than black men.

The leaders of the white community should be up in arms about that.

Where's Shepard Smith? Where's Rush Limbaugh? Where's Glenn Beck on this?

Where's the white Al Sharpton to bring these corrupt bastards to justice?

Do white people only care about white on white violence when it happens to pretty little white girls?

Meanwhile it's only the radical fringe like Alex Jones who even mention shit like this.

WIA

(12-20-2014 07:03 PM)jimukr104 Wrote:  

This is just an excuse for animals to act like animals. You really think those fucks gave a shit about some 300 lbs guy in Staten island?

People are MAD about many things including the economy..which the gov't lies about and says it GREAT. Interesting how it is during recessions that this shit happens.

Anyway here is what MIGHT happen. I am going by the cop gossip. Understand that this WAR of words between the Mayor and PBA president is overshadowing an overdue contract. Yes that is it..always about MONEY. Don't let the politicians fool you!

But the Mayor did go over the line recently and even the governor pointed out he was wrong. The cops have gotten the secret code for a slowdown. But it is a LEGAL slowdown.

Let me explain: The dept hands out the PATROL GUIDE which is like 5k pages of rules and regulations. Most cops don't follow them completely and the leadership is thankful for that because if cops actually followed it to a word NOTHING would get done in this city.

For example: most cars are in bad condition and in violation of work rules of both the union and dept. All the assigned officers have to do is say they are NOT going to drive the car that night and that it needs to go to the shop. If that happens majority of patrol will be grounded.

Cops can also waste each tour doing 1 job..crossing their T's and dotting their I's.

Slow down arrests? NO WAY! what they will do is give NO discretion. Every arrest , no matter how BS takes almost a whole tour to complete. Imagine when a whole platoon collars up within the 1st 45 minutes of work!

They use to do that sometimes when they were pissed at a boss..imagine city wide!

And there is NOTHING the city can do about it since it isn't a violation of the Taylor law!

I almost wish I went back now just to participate. It is/was a long time coming. When cops went on strike in the 70's things improved afterwards.

Worst case scenario ..national guard gets called in. You think they would treat Eric Gardner better? he he he... they are trained to shoot and that is it.

Oh and if Cops go on strike (or slowdown), possible firefighters will SLOWDOWN. Why? because firemen often get attacked in the bad areas and depend on police to be present during emergencies.

It gets worst..city EMS (FDNY) will also have to slow down because they also depend on police showing up to aided cases.

The ripple effect can be felt!

Again every union I mention is in a contract war with the Mayor. So trust me when I say that there is economics behind all this shit!

Ironically the teachers SOLD out (they tend to do so) but they also will avoid showing up to work when the ghetto has no patrol or emergency response.

MTA trains might slow down because in the 1970's they had their own police force..Transit cops. The cops merged into the NYPD. So I don't see how safe they will feel if cops empty out of the tunnels.

Hre's the slowdown order:
http://www.capitalnewyork.com/article/ci...discretion


I should also note that Corrections actually did a slowdown years ago and basically fucked up the whole city justice system. The officers all put the buses out of order and thousands of defendant's couldn't get to court.
No one fucks with them. Even Bloomberg was afraid of the union president( he visited the deputy mayors home with 2 guns strapped to him once in a prison uniform).
I am glad Pat Lynch grew a pair of balls.

The economy part is a small part of this.

It's not ironic that the first president to embrace the politics of the New Left and it's philosophy has actually helped bring back a lot of the political divides that came about during the 60's and the 70's. People have been so focused on race, that they've become ambivalent to the fact that this is nothing more than history repeating itself.

It shows something that is growing increasingly sad about the United States, not that it's in decline in a traditional sense, but it is increasingly losing the ability to learn from history on a cultural level, making the same mistakes over and over again, and providing similar results. You can literally look at the riots in the 60's and 70's and outside of style and fashion, think that nothing has changed.

[Parlay44]

Street Justice.

[Veloce]

(12-20-2014 09:13 PM)Hotwheels Wrote:  

I'm not a huge fan of cops, but celebrating two of them being gunned down just because they are cops is not something I will ever do.

I would never celebrate the death of two cops either.

I'm not about to dig in their past and see if they were good cops or bad cops and try to play judge here. I don't really care. In fact, I'll assume that they were good guys and cared about their community, and this murder is a tragedy. I'll happily assume that.

That said, I look at this story from a big picture perspective and in some way, this incident gives me reassurance.

I am entirely okay with the cops in this country knowing that a gun could be put on them at any moment. This militarized police force has gotten way out of hand.

[Peregrine]

A healthy society depends on respect for the rule of law and those who enforce it. Individual patrol cops aren't the problem, even the bad ones. They're just symptoms of a diseased system.

Quote:

I am entirely okay with the cops in this country knowing that a gun could be put on them at any moment. This militarized police force has gotten way out of hand.

Putting the fear of God into cops won't demilitarize them. It'll just make them want to load up even more. And they'll get their wish, because the ruling class is in favor of a militarized police and a police vs citizens conflict. Less focus on the crimes of the powerful.

[Hotwheels]

(12-20-2014 10:01 PM)Peregrine Wrote:  

A healthy society depends on respect for the rule of law and those who enforce it. Individual patrol cops aren't the problem, even the bad ones. They're just symptoms of a diseased system.

Quote:

I am entirely okay with the cops in this country knowing that a gun could be put on them at any moment. This militarized police force has gotten way out of hand.

Putting the fear of God into cops won't demilitarize them. It'll just make them want to load up even more. And they'll get their wish, because the ruling class is in favor of a militarized police and a police vs citizens conflict. Less focus on the crimes of the powerful.

Exactly.

Above WIA quotes an article about a NYC cop accidentally shooting a guy in a dark stairwell in a housing project. Why did the cop even have his gun out?

Because he was in a crime riddled housing project, that's why. If the cops feel threatened in any way they will protect themselves before anything else.

As they should.

On the flip side I do NOT side with the cops having MRAP's and using them indiscriminately as I feel they escalate situations more than they diffuse them. However, if a large part of the populace starts acting out and targeting cops, they will become more commonplace. Not less so.

[JuanQuinQuin]

Cops as well as government is just a necessary evil that a intelligent person should stay away from them but to go on arms against the police just because some bimbos in CNN are trying to raise up their ratings is just disgusting. Shit keeps getting this way and police will start shooting people based on their same race, ethnicity, and sexuality. And that's fucked up.

[jimukr104]

(12-20-2014 09:48 PM)Parlay44 Wrote:  

Street Justice.

Street justice would be if he killed the officer who they are blaming for a chokehold, NOT 2 other cops. In fact what is racism? prejudice..well they 2 guys were killed because they wore a blue uniform that says shows they are police. That is as prejudice as one gets.

So if thugs go around killing anyone with a blue uniform and shield simply because it is the same uniform as the 'choke hold' cop..what difference is that from guys going from one race around killing or beating All guys from another race simply because they believe that race is responsible for more crime, etc?



There is no difference.

So 2 innocent guys, who did nothing wrong or illegal, got killed because one guilty guy died from a tragedy that he himself started( if he didn't resist he still be alive). I don't personally see the poetic justice here. Street Justice would be if they killed a criminal corrupt cop or some notorious bad cop.

And all this will do is cause the cops to come down harder. And guess what? THE COP'S will win! They always do. In the 70's when they fought the Black Panthers..the Police won in the end. I suspect more members of that organization were killed, executed or put in jail than cops that were killed.

This execution now makes it harder for the Mayor and Sharpton to rally with the protesters.


Also I heard the guy killed his GF first. If that is true this whole thing stinks of 'suicide by cop'. Go look it up if you don't understand. He is looking to die and get attention like a serial killer gets. He isn't a freedom fighter , he is a coward who can't pull his own trigger on himself so he will force cops to kill him.

Quote:

Above WIA quotes an article about a NYC cop accidentally shooting a guy in a dark stairwell in a housing project. Why did the cop even have his gun out?

Answer: He had it out because that is the housing police dept procedure when performing vertical patrol in a building. Nothing to debate here. It is written procedure and I understand why it is so but since no one else here is trained in Law enforcement in housing telling you the potential dangers is not my obligation. Does a doctor have to explain every technical thing he does on an operation table to an outsider? EXACTLY!

[Lord_Perseus]

(12-20-2014 09:55 PM)Veloce Wrote:  

(12-20-2014 09:13 PM)Hotwheels Wrote:  

I'm not a huge fan of cops, but celebrating two of them being gunned down just because they are cops is not something I will ever do.

I would never celebrate the death of two cops either.

I'm not about to dig in their past and see if they were good cops or bad cops and try to play judge here. I don't really care. In fact, I'll assume that they were good guys and cared about their community, and this murder is a tragedy. I'll happily assume that.

That said, I look at this story from a big picture perspective and in some way, this incident gives me reassurance.

I am entirely okay with the cops in this country knowing that a gun could be put on them at any moment. This militarized police force has gotten way out of hand.

You can't possibly be naive enough to think this won't lead to an escalation on the part of the police. I am no fan of the increasing militarization of local police forces but this incident will most assuredly put an end to any thoughtful effort to draw down policing to something a bit more suitable for everyday society. You definitely do not want the cops being afraid of any degenerate walking up to them & blowing their brains out.

The people don't trust the cops & the cops don't trust the people. Nothing good comes from this but if this dynamic keeps getting even worse than it already is, the cops will prevail. The have the money, muscle & firepower, which when civilized methods fail is what wins out