[General Mayhem]

(12-25-2014 09:48 PM)Dalaran1991 Wrote:  

I think I got it all wrong. It's never about complimenting a girl. It's about telling them exactly what they want to hear.

There's a lot of truth in that statement.

I think you are kinda like me. You want to game girls but not in the way most guys talk about it here. Holes ain't holes.

You want to hang out and enjoy the company of beautiful women. You want to talk to them, tease them, make them smile, then bang them, but it's not just about the bang. That's just the climax of a good story.

Back to the whole compliment thing.

It's always about what the girl wants to hear, but more about how she sees herself. I posted a quote from the LaidNYC thread that really helped me out. I used it on my LTR because it made so much sense.

I'm dealing with a girl who is an ex-cheerleader, and she looks like an NYC model. She knows she is gorgeous. I could compliment her looks, but she wants compliments on anything but her looks. She wants to hear that she is smart.

Here's the bit I posted in the LaidNYC thread:

Quote:

Hot girls get it, they’re hot. Everyone sees they’re hot. The quicker you get past it and ignore it, the better.

She’ll feel most validated, most qualified, if she thinks you see her how she sees herself. Whether she identifies as a singer or people pleaser or spiritualist or bitch or yes, a dork.

In Robert Cialdini’s classic Influence, he says we like people who like us. I think more specifically we like people who like what we like about ourselves.
The hot chick from Blurred Lines sees herself as a dork, and likes her dorky side, and that’s what she wants people to like. Obviously most guys won’t get past the beauty, making it a tremendous filtering mechanism.

These are important questions to think about when seducing a girl though: How does she see herself? What does she like about herself?

[Dalaran1991]

@Mayhem, I've been following your pots and it's true that we might have a very similar mindset and gaming style, although by the looks of it you are way ahead of me.

Back to the matter, now the real question is, how do you find out "how the girl sees herself" and "how she wants people to see her"

For smooth experienced players it's simply a matter of asking the right question and sit back and let the girl lay out their hearts to you, but I'm not there yet.

I've had success using probing questions like "what's the best thing that ever happened to you" and "what do you like the most about yourself" and something similar. Sometimes the girl will give you some gold information but I'm still not sure how to use that information to my best advantages.

Say maybe she thinks herself as an independent person, then you give her a few boost on how adventurous or headstrong she is. I think it's good to avoid using her own words or repeat exactly what she says otherwise you may sound corny.

The tricky thing is, sometimes what is obvious about a girl isn't really obvious. I deal with a lot of cute college girls. They would certainly stand out in a crowd but they are not exactly bombshell. Similarly they aren't your cheap bar wench either. Most are pretty smart and have good grades. So you never really know if you should focus on the looks or the personality department.

[General Mayhem]

You are going down the same path I did. I was the biggest dick in my social circle for a while and it got old. Don't get me wrong. I love being a dominant guy, but I would rather not have people always on edge around me. I'd rather be the guy who brings people together and makes them feel good. Will I still flatten a motherfucker if I have to? You can bet your ass I will. I will always love brawling.

I did a lot of thinking about my biggest influences, the guys I really looked up to who weren't part of the community but who absolutely killed it in real life. None of them were assholes unless they had to be. They were all guys that everyone wanted to be around. They were the heartbeat of their circles. You wouldn't dare disrespect those guys. In my mind that's what a true patriarch looks like. Hopefully you know a few guys like that. These guys were all in their late 20s. I've never met anyone below 26 with that kind of aura about them.

Moral of that story? Be a patriarch, not a prick.

Moving on, I think what we are getting onto now is just how to have a good conversation with a girl, which in my opinion is one of the more understated parts of seduction when you are in it for more than just a stringer of notches. Asshole game is a cheap trick. It's not much work.

I decided I really wanted to master human interactions separate from stereotypical game.

A girl will tell you so damn much information. Not just in the things she says, but the things she hesitates to say, the things she slips in unnoticed, her body language, and her voice. It's hard work to really sit back and take in everything a woman is putting out there. I kind of reframed the way I thought about my conversations with women and started to just sit back and take it all in.

I used to look at a woman with a one track mind. It was all thirst and all I wanted to figure out was how to bang, but to a lot of girls it was probably like talking to a wall. I wasn't picking up half of what they were putting down. It's a lot different now. I'm in observer mode most of the time. I've got a skeptical look on my face, and I'm trying to figure out what makes her tick. It's like she's a work of art I am trying to understand. Keep in mind I am talking about beautiful women.

Personally, I hate asking a lot of questions. Just have a fucking conversation.

I feel like I've been talking about my LTR too much on the forum, but she really helped push my game to another level. Getting in her pants wasn't my first priority. When we started hanging out I didn't even think she was that into me, so I decided to use her as a dummy to practice how to talk to a woman. We would talk for hours, and I would listen to her and watch her as she talked. I wasn't really even spitting game. I would tease her when it came naturally, but for the most part I let it just run wild.

I would recommend trying something similar. Find a girl and just talk to her. Try to figure out what makes her tick. Use her as a practice dummy.

Sometimes I wonder how many guys really listen to beautiful women, or any woman really. Dudes are so fucking thirsty that they are almost blind. They are so focused on saying the right thing that they totally miss the boat. My girl made a comment once about hating the way that guys talk to her. Her biggest fear is that nobody will ever take her seriously because she is attractive. She's never told me that verbatim, but I pieced it together based on all the other shit she talks about.

I wish I could tell you exactly how I opened her up, maybe it was just because she could sense that I was actually listening to her. I don't know. I just remember when we were at the bar one night and she goes, "I still can't believe I told you that. I've only told one other person about that."

You said, "For smooth experienced players it's simply a matter of asking the right question and sit back and let the girl lay out their hearts to you, but I'm not there yet."

I don't think it works like that. Nobody really opens up because you asked the right question. I think girls pour their hearts out when they get the feeling that you might actually understand what they are trying to say. I think being a good listener is where the magic happens.

Like I said, I don't like asking a ton of questions. I even talk about myself quite a bit, which goes against the whole, "don't expect a girl to open up because you opened up to her." In my experience it works if attraction is there.

I was hanging out with another girl a few nights ago. Again, not really focusing on the bang. I talked about myself a shit ton, and she started throwing in her own experiences. I never asked her about her relationships, but she ended up telling me. We talked about drugs, relationships, life, etc. It was just a good conversation.

I know this is a lot of rambling, but hopefully it helps.

[AneroidOcean]

The goal when employing some asshole-ish behaviour is for the following to occur simultaneously:

• Her laughing/smiling/opening up her body language
• Slapping you/hitting you playfully and saying, "you're such an asshole!"
  

Some behaviour that I previously thought to be "asshole-ish" which in reality is just the result of being a confident and busy guy are:

1. Not responding to texts right away, not picking up all phone calls immediately.
2. Cancelling plans.
3. Showing up late to things.
4. Not paying for everything on dates.
5. Expecting a girl to dress nice for you.
6. Escalating physically and sexualizing conversation.
7. Calling out women on their bullshit.
8. Walking away from a woman.
9. Asking a girl to go home instead of sleeping over.
10. Requesting a girl to bring you something, buy you something, cook you something.

Now those are par for the course. Some might consider me an asshole for it. *shrug* I'm not really worried about it anymore.

There are women out there who truly respond to serious asshole-ish behaviour, for those you'd probably have to turn that side up or move on to other girls.

It's rare that a girl believes I'm an asshole these days but I can tell you this, I don't care if someone thinks I'm an asshole. Usually when my actions make them feel that way, my behaviour is predicated on theirs.

I can be very sweet to a girl if she treats me well, but the opposite is true as well.

Parlay44 lays it out well, though I think target selection and calibration to your target are important.

[Pride male]

I really wish most women responded to complements, gift giving, opening doors, pda and cuddling. Life would be much easier.

[RockHard]

One thing you have to remember with "asshole game" is that the concept is push/pull. If it's all push, you're going to get "asshole" with a backturn and walk away. If you pull and push, you'll get "asshole" and a punch on the shoulder and she'll get more engaged with you. Some of the pull can come from your looks or status, girls will put up with a lot more from a model than an average guy. The pull is giving her a reason to be with you. The push is showing that you're not intimidated by her.

(12-25-2014 10:50 PM)General Mayhem Wrote:  

(12-25-2014 09:48 PM)Dalaran1991 Wrote:  

I think I got it all wrong. It's never about complimenting a girl. It's about telling them exactly what they want to hear.

There's a lot of truth in that statement.

I think you are kinda like me. You want to game girls but not in the way most guys talk about it here. Holes ain't holes.

You want to hang out and enjoy the company of beautiful women. You want to talk to them, tease them, make them smile, then bang them, but it's not just about the bang. That's just the climax of a good story.

YES! The sex is the cherry on top of a fun interaction. If it was just sex, I'd hire whores and save a lot of time and energy.

Quote:

I'm dealing with a girl who is an ex-cheerleader, and she looks like an NYC model. She knows she is gorgeous. I could compliment her looks, but she wants compliments on anything but her looks. She wants to hear that she is smart.

Man, that is huge. This post should be highlighted. She wants validation, but not for what everyone sees, for what she wants to see. This also goes in reverse. If you're dealing with a 40 year old mom (I know, bear with me), she wants to hear that she's gorgeous. Ever see a smooth player work with older ladies? He'll drop ridiculous compliments on them and they'll get all giggly because he is saying what they want to believe. They know they're not hot, but they love hearing that they are, especially because he's not being needy and doesn't have an agenda. Try it sometime: compliment random women on their earrings or anything that catches your eye. Don't do it with an agenda, don't expect anything from her. Watch her reaction. It's powerful.

(12-26-2014 05:37 PM)General Mayhem Wrote:  

A girl will tell you so damn much information. Not just in the things she says, but the things she hesitates to say, the things she slips in unnoticed, her body language, and her voice. It's hard work to really sit back and take in everything a woman is putting out there. I kind of reframed the way I thought about my conversations with women and started to just sit back and take it all in.

I don't remember where I read this, but one of the old school PUAs (DavidD? Ross Jeffries?) said that if you pay attention, a woman will give you the language to seduce her with. That's key. A good listener doesn't nod his head, he feeds back what she's giving him and using it to build attraction.

(12-30-2014 02:06 PM)Pride male Wrote:  

I really wish most women responded to complements, gift giving, opening doors, pda and cuddling. Life would be much easier.

I'm not saying you approach girls this way, but this is one of the top hangups guys have. Women aren't machines where you put in a compliment and a blowjob comes out, any more than guys are dumb animals who'll do anything for a beer.

[General Mayhem]

(12-31-2014 01:11 PM)RockHard Wrote:  

Women aren't machines where you put in a compliment and a blowjob comes out

Loved this.

[Fortis]

It's tough to run smooth game like that unless you're naturally smooth. I tend to be more abrasive and funny by my nature, so I like to go the asshole route with girls. That said, being smooth has it's benefits. One of the best players I know is this guy who's just super smooth. You could catch him banging your girl and he could probably talk his way out of it. He's just like that, though. He also comes from a large family of boys with different mothers, so I imagine that his dad is/was quite the player, so I'm not surprised that he's this way.

I think it works well for him because he's very confident about it. If you're not as "solid" as he is on the inside, then you'll appear like a pussy. But he can be like, "hey beautiful" and have the girl thinking "why is he so confident. Who is he to talk to me like this?" It really does depend on how strong you are on the inside.

[memcpy]

You should be running the game that is tailored to yourself. If you are high energy then run that game. If you are low energy then run that game.

It wouldn't make sense for me to run "black-guy holla at ya girl" game on white girls cause i'm not black and it don't fit with my style. If I was in a club full of hood rats, then yea, i'd adjust my game accordingly and be more direct about things.

[Rush87]

Nice guy compliment game is actually the ideal IMO. The only problem… You need to be:

A.) At least and 8 out of 10 with regards to looks and
B.) Even more attractive if the girl is a 9+

Essentially nice guy game is [elite] good looking guy game. A lot of guys who are maybe a 7/10 can probably get there with increased muscle mass, a solid hair style and pretty high maintenance on their looks.

Alternatively the rest choose the more manageable option of upping their game.

[JayJuanGee]

(12-30-2014 02:06 PM)Pride male Wrote:  

I really wish most women responded to complements, gift giving, opening doors, pda and cuddling. Life would be much easier.

Are you sure that you are NOT trolling, Pride Male?

Earlier in this thread, I responded to your seeming attempt to non-substantively bring up this idea of promoting the codling of women through "cuddling", and you completely ignored my earlier response and repeated yourself with the above post and no additional substantive content.

Are you capable of making a more substantive response to explain why you believe "complements, gift giving, opening doors, pda and cuddling" is the direction we should be going? You are striving for a more "loving" and "caring" world when it comes to male / female relations? Do you believe men and women should be equals, too?

[Pride male]

^^Oh yeah, didnt mean to repeat myself. It is just that the whole soul mate, she completes me, happily ever after comes naturally to me. Hell, I still listen to Westlife (no homo).

Most players that I know have no idea what love is, if exists at all and to them women are just holes.

[JayJuanGee]

(01-02-2015 06:58 AM)Pride male Wrote:  

^^Oh yeah, didnt mean to repeat myself. It is just that the whole soul mate, she completes me, happily ever after comes naturally to me. Hell, I still listen to Westlife (no homo).

Most players that I know have no idea what love is, if exists at all and to them women are just holes.

Are you suggesting that RVF guys need to employ more "love" in their relationships with women in order to be more successful and happy in their relationships with women? Surely, if we are talking about marriage and getting into a relationship with one women, then discussion of love may become more applicable.

I do NOT claim to be any kind of game expert; however, the last I checked, it seems that this forum is meant to help guys with various ways to improve themselves, and even to obtain better success with women and frequently guys are discussing these matters in the context of having multiple relationships with multiple women over years of their lives.

What are your particulars in terms of banging women? Do you employ "love" techniques in attempting to bang women? Are you successful with such techniques, that is if you apply such techniques in real life? Do you have sex with women or do you try to have sex with women? How would you approach normally? Give one or two examples in the last year or two, of how you managed a relationship and whether you consider it successful and what was your measure of success. Was it the sex, or that she made you feel good or something else?

[Pride male]

No dude, I am not advising anyone to 'employ love in their game'. At some point I would like to settle down with that 'one special girl'. Just not now though.

[JayJuanGee]

(01-02-2015 08:12 AM)Pride male Wrote:  

No dude, I am not advising anyone to 'employ love in their game'. At some point I would like to settle down with that 'one special girl'. Just not now though.

You are suggesting that guys in this forum employ "love" in our game, but you are NOT providing any specifics regarding how to employ such "love" and/or the extent to which such application of "love" has been successful for you, if at all? How does that make any sense?

[Dalaran1991]

Reporting in for duty 2015

About smooth talking and compliment? That doesn't work shit with girls I've found. When you compliment a girl, most doesn't know how to react. "Thanks" is ok, but then "oh my god you are so NICE"


And then the conversation just kinda die. It's no fun.

I can sound pretty sincere giving compliments, but then there's no point doing it. At least when you are teasing girls, even if you don't get the bang you are having fun.

Now of course learning to be a good teaser is another thing entirely.

Maybe there's such a thing as smooth talking for seduction, but if you get to the seduction phase already just run don't fuck up game.

[General Mayhem]

Good to hear that you are out experimenting, even if you aren't getting the results you want.

I'm rehashing this idea because your post has made me evaluate how I go about it, and I think what I do is I just pay more attention to the girls interests.

I know I said before with my LTR, "She wants to hear that she is smart."

Scratch that.

She wants to FEEL that she is smart.

Looking at what I do it is more like I try to make her feel smart without actually complimenting her. I just lead the conversation, let her talk, and really listen to her.

I guess me giving that sincere interest is a compliment, same deal with this new side piece. It's more about making them feel something than it is about telling them something. I've said before that my game has turned more spiritual. I've focused on energy a lot, and it seems to work for me.

I think I was going to put this in a previous reply but forgot to.

I almost never use traditional compliments. This new chick I pulled for an SNL last Sunday I have hung out with 3 times since then, 3 bangs, and I still don't think I've given her a traditional compliment, not even on NYE when she showed up dressed to the 9s. My mind just doesn't work like that.

I didn't even start asking her questions until this morning when we were having coffee in my living room.

I guess what I am trying to say is this; Game to me is about getting the girl to feel something and playing on her emotions. It's about getting her hamster to do the work for you.

It's like borderline telepathy.

[Fortis]

(01-01-2015 10:55 PM)Rush87 Wrote:  

Nice guy compliment game is actually the ideal IMO. The only problem… You need to be:

A.) At least and 8 out of 10 with regards to looks and
B.) Even more attractive if the girl is a 9+

Essentially nice guy game is [elite] good looking guy game. A lot of guys who are maybe a 7/10 can probably get there with increased muscle mass, a solid hair style and pretty high maintenance on their looks.

Alternatively the rest choose the more manageable option of upping their game.

I don't think you need to be THAT good looking. My friend who runs Smooth game isn't super amazing in terms of looks. Maybe a male 6, but he's just so fucking smooth and aggressive at the same time.

[Truth Teller]

(01-01-2015 07:51 PM)memcpy Wrote:  

You should be running the game that is tailored to yourself. If you are high energy then run that game. If you are low energy then run that game.

This is where most advice fails. Most guys are taught to become some sort of "ultra-alpha male," when all they really need to do is learn how to act authentically and in the moment.

For guys like me, who are more introverted and low energy, a lot of the traditional advice fails. If I'm going around and dancing on tables or whatever, I'm not acting authentically. I'm putting on a front.

[Giovonny]

(01-01-2015 07:51 PM)memcpy Wrote:  

You should be running the game that is tailored to yourself.

This is the most important thing.

Craft a social strategy that is consistent with your life, personality, lifestyle, job, energy state, emotional state, genetics, etc.

Become the best version of yourself.

Don't be fake, it's a short sighted solution.

(01-04-2015 09:21 AM)Truth Teller Wrote:  

This is where most advice fails. Most guys are taught to become some sort of "ultra-alpha male," when all they really need to do is learn how to act authentically and in the moment.

Well said!

(12-30-2014 02:06 PM)Pride male Wrote:  

I really wish most women responded to complements, gift giving, opening doors, pda and cuddling. Life would be much easier.

Don't rely on giving gifts.

Become the Gift.

[Dalaran1991]

So remind me again about the basics: say you tease her and get her qualifying herself to you, and let's say she shows you something impressive (in terms of merit, not I have 10k instagram followers impressive), do you keep teasing her or should you show some appreciation/acknowledgement of her worth?

[redbeard]

(01-02-2015 03:58 PM)General Mayhem Wrote:  

I know I said before with my LTR, "She wants to hear that she is smart."

Scratch that.

She wants to FEEL that she is smart.

Take that, and apply it to more aspects of a girls personality. Remember, it's all about the feelings with girls. They aren't rational creatures like we are.


Telling her she looks pretty vs. taking her to high profile events where you will be seen together.

Telling her she's smart vs. giving her a book she might find value in, then discussing what she got out of it.

Telling her you love her vs. keeping her around when shit hits the fan.

They would much rather FEEL valued than being told that they have value.

A great way to extrapolate this is obviously to be a high value male and make a girl feel the value of being with you. Take care of your body, groom yourself, dress well, be funny, and she'll want to be with you everywhere.

One of the best compliments you can give a girl is "hey, come out with me and my friends."

[Pride male]

I prefer back handed complements

'you look good for your age.'

[Ingocnito]

The thing about being established as a bit of an abrasive dick, is when you do give a compliment, it often holds more weight. I think in BANG and other books the % of negging-type comments VS compliments has been thoroughly discussed. Something like 3/2 or 3/1 or so.

There's a Jordanian chick at a local store I've tried to get to cough up her #, and her friend works down the road and they both have a bit of a thing for me, but they're both in relationships where I believe they live with their men so number closes have been dry. The Jordanian is a tough nut to crack, bringing a fair amount of her country's relationship standards to the US with her it seems.

However, she's got a really stand-off personality and the negs are hardcore cuts to get her hamster running, she fires back like a champ. With her I run about 85% negs, 10% smooth talk, and 5% compliments. Last I saw her I gave her a compliment on her eyes, and it stopped her dead in her tracks, giving me the most genuine smile in return, it made her day.

[Valhalla]

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