[startup__]

What are your opinions on bottle service? How do you maximize your return on investment on this?

[trainwreck]

Get a table on the way to the bathroom. You'll be able to pick a lot of girls on their own, or just in 2 sets when they are coming back from the bathroom.

Ask the promoter to bring some girls to your table, tip him $100. Wear a suit (girls who come to your table obviously like the fact you got money)

Pour the girls some shots, don't give them drinks. The shots are more effective - they are smaller and get the girl drunk faster. Pineapple + tequilla works wonders. DO NOT get them too drunk.

Between 2 and 3am is crucial in NYC. Reason being that girls are starting to fear not finding a guy for the night at around 2am, and you don't want to be the guy yelling AFTERPARTY after the lights come on.. you need to pull them at around 3.30 with something along the line of "hey, this place is slowing down. Got a few drinks at my sick apartment/hotel suite.. bring your friends and lets go"- that's after you tried to pull her on your own and she rejects that idea. I sexualize a LOT. You got value with a table at a place like Avenue or Marquee, at least in the US.

In EE I've found table service rather to be an annoyance. I do a LOT better there when rolling with a suit in a student-ish club.

[WestIndianArchie]

HEY LOOK GOLD DIGGERS!
I JUST BOUGHT THIS 30 DOLLAR BOTTLE OF GREY GOOSE FOR 300 BUCKS!
COME SIT WITH ME AND MY CORNY FRIENDS ON THIS RED VELVET COUCH BEHIND THE RED VELVET ROPE

HI BOTTLE RAT, AFTER I FILL YOUR CUP FOR THE 4TH TIME, ARE YOU GONNA SUCK MY DICK IN THE BATHROOM? NO? WHAT ABOUT YOUR FRIEND?

Bottle Service, for the purpose of pulling girls, is some bull shit.

If you see some guys in VIP who are actually banging these chicks, they didn't need the bottle service to do it. Usually those dudes draped in broads are promoters (or athletes, or rappers/musicians/celebs), or otherwise scenesters.

Dorks with cash see guys like this and think they can buy their way into some prime vajajay. Maybe if you have some cocaine, sure.

Bill Gates is worth at least 100 Jay Z's. If he shows up to the club with Warren Beezy, and Carlos Biggie Slim, it's gonna be quarter of a trillion dollars watching ice melt.

Now if you want to have some fun and money's no object, it's nice to have a place to put your coat down, and not have to stand with the rest of the riff raff. But that silver bucket full of ice might as well be a brand new Honda Accord. It ain't attracting nobody for the right reason.

You have no value, you just have money to spend.

WIA

[trainwreck]

(12-05-2014 06:44 PM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:  

HEY LOOK GOLD DIGGERS!
I JUST BOUGHT THIS 30 DOLLAR BOTTLE OF GREY GOOSE FOR 300 BUCKS!
COME SIT WITH ME AND MY CORNY FRIENDS ON THIS RED VELVET COUCH BEHIND THE RED VELVET ROPE

HI BOTTLE RAT, AFTER I FILL YOUR CUP FOR THE 4TH TIME, ARE YOU GONNA SUCK MY DICK IN THE BATHROOM? NO? WHAT ABOUT YOUR FRIEND?

Bottle Service, for the purpose of pulling girls, is some bull shit.

If you see some guys in VIP who are actually banging these chicks, they didn't need the bottle service to do it. Usually those dudes draped in broads are promoters (or athletes, or rappers/musicians/celebs), or otherwise scenesters.

Dorks with cash see guys like this and think they can buy their way into some prime vajajay. Maybe if you have some cocaine, sure.

Bill Gates is worth at least 100 Jay Z's. If he shows up to the club with Warren Beezy, and Carlos Biggie Slim, it's gonna be quarter of a trillion dollars watching ice melt.

Now if you want to have some fun and money's no object, it's nice to have a place to put your coat down, and not have to stand with the rest of the riff raff. But that silver bucket full of ice might as well be a brand new Honda Accord. It ain't attracting nobody for the right reason.

You have no value, you just have money to spend.

WIA

I disagree. US clubs are absolutely focussed towards bottle service nowadays. I manage to get into clubs without bottles, but my success rate is 10x higher when I get a table. In certain NYC clubs I can almost guarantee that I will leave with SOMETHING at the end of the night, if I go to the right club at the right night. Too bad Kiss&Fly isn't open anymore. I guess it depends on your style of game, but I run "interesting world travelled man game" and usually the fact that I have a table to bring the girls back to, sit down, touch them up, intro them to my cool friends, helps a ton.

If I'm in NYC tho nowadays, I prefer to go to the lower east side, where I can head into a bar and do the same type of game with a 10th of the cost.

It's like anything in the game. You'll be able to perfection the whole thing up to a great level. But I disagree completely. Nowadays, if we're talking US clubs, bottle service chumps trump the playboy at the bar anytime. Hell, high model-% places like Avenue and Catch in NYC are basically bottle-service only. The ratios are insane, and basically 99% of people in there are taller than me (I'm 170cm) but the status makes up for it. And yes, I'm basically never paying for these tables, as the companies I work with take me out, and then the married chumps get impressed by me pulling 21yo's

[startup__]

I admit I'm very new to game and feel that the cost of spending more time becoming better at it is simply not worth the effort(pussy). If I REALLY REALLY want sex, I'd just get escorts or sugar baby. I've had tons of those and have no internal conflict whatsoever. It's no different than jacking off, with hired pussy instead of my hands.

I'm not making 7 figures yet but am making just enough to feel justifiable dropping a few bill a night twice a month just for a place for me to sit down and talk with my friends.

My goal on this thread was rather to fist for information on how to maximize the time and money that I've already spent.

[trainwreck]

(12-05-2014 06:58 PM)startup__ Wrote:  

I admit I'm very new to game and feel that the cost of spending more time becoming better at it is simply not worth the effort(pussy). If I REALLY REALLY want sex, I'd just get escorts or sugar baby. I've had tons of those and have no internal conflict whatsoever. It's no different than jacking off, with hired pussy instead of my hands.

I'm not making 7 figures yet but am making just enough to feel justifiable dropping a few bill a night twice a month just for a place for me to sit down and talk with my friends.

My goal on this thread was rather to fist for information on how to maximize the time and money that I've already spent.

This forum is not for p4p and I'm now pretty confused as to why you posted in the first place. What should I tell you.. maybe how about a club with quieter music? So you don't have to yell at your friends.

Hope you're happy, lol

[Drazen]

I was in Seattle recently. Washington Law forbids customers to pour their own bottles, so the waitress has a lock and key for a cylindrical container that holds the bottle. Its pretty great to chase away the bottle rats.



I like Bottle Service because if the venue is crowded, you have your own section where you can just hang out without people constantly bumping into you. Just don't sit down at the table. Nowadays, I don't give any of the alcohol to girls (early mistake in my bottle service days). If they want to hang out in the area, fine, but if they want to steal the alcohol we purchased, they can kick rocks. In my experience, it hasn't really been a problem. Its a situational thing, if a girl is cool and we're vibing, and in the natural course of things her getting a drink would be better than her leaving, going to a bar and getting a drink, then I don't care that much. Group shots are for you and your boys who chipped in though.

I don't always do bottle service, but when I do, I generally have more fun wherever I am. Its more because your are more comfortable in general.

Oh yeah, I also just use the table as a home base. I drink there, then go out and then hunt and gather around the venue, then come back sporadically.

[Bacchus]

(12-05-2014 07:25 PM)Drazen Wrote:  

[kaotic]

(12-05-2014 08:43 PM)Bacchus Wrote:  

(12-05-2014 07:25 PM)Drazen Wrote:  

Holy shit, Washington just killed the bottle rat !

[Tuthmosis]

I had to look this up:

   

[Bacchus]

^

Did Kosko write that definition?

[kaotic]

Hahahah yeah bottle rate/table rat, we just always call them rats, whether in SoCal or in Vegas.

Honestly tables are fun when its you and your boys or if you got bitches you're rolling with.

It's so fucking easy to spot girls who just want free drinks. The thirst is real my friends.

[Vitriol]

This has already been covered on the forum and elsewhere:
http://www.thegmanifesto.com/2007/07/bot...tlife.html

I don't think anyone here is going to recommend a night out where you are guaranteed to spend hundreds or thousands of dollars on the off chance you might get some pussy. It brings your cost per notch WAY up.



Do you really want to get charged $1200 for a fucking bottle of Grey Goose and $8 for a Red Bull?

[El Chinito loco]

(12-05-2014 11:26 PM)Vitriol Wrote:  

This has already been covered on the forum and elsewhere:
http://www.thegmanifesto.com/2007/07/bot...tlife.html

I don't think anyone here is going to recommend a night out where you are guaranteed to spend hundreds or thousands of dollars on the off chance you might get some pussy. It brings your cost per notch WAY up.



Do you really want to get charged $1200 for a fucking bottle of Grey Goose and $8 for a Red Bull?

It depends on who you are really. If you're Mark Cuban or somebody with money to burn that bill is not going to matter that much. For your average guy you'd have to be completely stupid to have a night like that. There's no potential SNL pussy worth a 50k+ bill.

[samsamsam]

^^ To be honest, I don't think any SNL pussy worth 50k regardless of your net worth.

[Mufasa]

Tuthmosis urban dictionary is your friend. Got the app on the phone to stay ahead of the curb bruh

but it's awesome if you can get a group of guys to chip in for it or EVEN BETTER you pay nothing at all!
During my stay in charlotte, NC I was consistently at the table a friend was paying for and it put my DHV wayyy higher than what it was at the time. Shits like fishing with dynamite--my first same night lay came from this situation.

[Phoenix]

I am also interested to hear more about this, especially from guys hanging out in Asia.

How does it actually work? Do you just use your table as a 'base', and then go ask women if they want to join you? Do you pre-screen them by chatting for a bit to see if she is warm first (to screen out 'bottle rats')? Do you just keep your seat and gesture for them to come over? What is the actual success rate of this versus not having a table? Do some guys just get their own table solo or is that wierd?

[El Chinito loco]

(12-06-2014 01:40 AM)Phoenix Wrote:  

I am also interested to hear more about this, especially from guys hanging out in Asia.

How does it actually work? Do you just use your table as a 'base', and then go ask women if they want to join you? Do you pre-screen them by chatting for a bit to see if she is warm first (to screen out 'bottle rats')? Do you just keep your seat and gesture for them to come over? What is the actual success rate of this versus not having a table? Do some guys just get their own table solo or is that wierd?

In countries like Thailand everyone is segregated at their own little table. They have VIP areas in some clubs but it's not that special. If you're just running around approaching all the girls at tables it does look weird and noticeable unless the place is packed. When you're with a group at a table it's not hard to invite girls walking through or beside you.

Getting your own solo table would be very weird and you would look like the saddest sack in the club. Especially if you're the one lone farang sitting with a bottle at his own table in the midst of a thai club.

In regular thai places i've never encountered bottle rats. Bottles of JW red or black are pretty cheap compared with the U.S. so there's no incentive to mooch.

[LeightonBlackstock]

Yeah ^, Bottle service is a must at the 'real' Thai clubs. Fundamental part of the drinking culture there (plus is piss-cheap).

And this is coming from someone who found the idea absolutely laughable in Taipei

Just hang out with your group of (ideally) Thai friends and look for eye contact. Cheers girls with the glass (girls will cheers you too to indicate interest). Or invite girls to your table. In RCA I sometimes leave the table and to find girls to invite (or get invited to their's). As El Chinito loco said there aren't bottle rats about, most of them time people will be shoving drinks in YOUR hand.

If I roll solo then I turn up to RCA at midnight when everyone's drunk as otherwise you'll stick out like a sore thumb (though I've stopped rolling solo actually as I don't like doing it in Thailand). Usually the game is to get invited to their table if you're out solo

But yeah, in Taipei just hit the dance floor or walk around, it's a western-style layout there.

[Phoenix]

Yes the Thai table grid system is quite different though. I actually did stand at my own table there once, and had a win (luck was involved). Once it starts to get more packed, people coming in see you with your mostly free table and ask if they can join you.

But what about the table style further east, like in higher-end Taiwan clubs?

[AneroidOcean]

(12-05-2014 06:10 PM)startup__ Wrote:  

What are your opinions on bottle service? How do you maximize your return on investment on this?

This should be in the newbie section as it's not specific in any way.

Bottle service in NYC is vastly different than bottle service in Thailand.

Even bottle service in the US can vary wildly. Dropping a 57k bottle service bill is stupid even amongst lots of people sharing it. You can get laid for vastly less.

Bottle service can have some significant positives as it's viewed favorably by even the less gold-digging types, but often times you can get most of the benefit with next to none of the cost.

Where bottle service is AMAZING:

1. Befriend some guy at a table with a shitty ratio. Then bring the girls you already brought to the club (you brought girls to the club didn't you?) over to their table and spread the wealth. Drink for free all night and your girls are happy to be in the VIP.

2. Befriend some girls who know guys that get bottle service and work your way into the group. Go out and game some girls, bring them to the table and introduce them to the girls and then the guys, go out solo and find some girls or pick some up from the VIP area.

3. Befriend a VIP host and have him introduce you (and the girls you're bringing) to some guys that have a table/bottles. Everyone has a good time and your VIP host is happy with you for bringing girls and hooks you up better in the future. Next time you get an invite that says "bring girls" and you show up and pre-party with the guys that can afford bottle service, ride in a limo with them and the rest of the girls, and drink all night for free, just because you can bring attractive girls.

Bottle service can bring you girls, but the thing that really brings you girls is to be able to break into that world.

You think the table/bottle service is the best? Try being a mere friend of one of the bartender's at the club. Try being a friend of the family member of one of the owner's of that club.

I'm not DistantLight or CMQ, but when you are helping kick everyone out of the club, fucking around grabbing drinks from behind the bar, fucking around being DJ, and meeting the owner of the nice strip club a few blocks down the road you're in a whole nother world that your standard bottle service can't touch and most guys buying bottle service can't even fathom.

[Distant Light]

(12-05-2014 11:56 PM)El Chinito loco Wrote:  

(12-05-2014 11:26 PM)Vitriol Wrote:  

This has already been covered on the forum and elsewhere:
http://www.thegmanifesto.com/2007/07/bot...tlife.html

I don't think anyone here is going to recommend a night out where you are guaranteed to spend hundreds or thousands of dollars on the off chance you might get some pussy. It brings your cost per notch WAY up.



Do you really want to get charged $1200 for a fucking bottle of Grey Goose and $8 for a Red Bull?

It depends on who you are really. If you're Mark Cuban or somebody with money to burn that bill is not going to matter that much. For your average guy you'd have to be completely stupid to have a night like that. There's no potential SNL pussy worth a 50k+ bill.

Most dudes who do this are usually in celebration mode and have the bankroll to piss away so much money. It's kind of like other poster mentioning how cheap thailand bottle service is. If you're making 100k/mth a $2500 table is nothing ESPECIALLY if you're splitting the cost with your crew.

I 1st experienced this when some wall street dudes bought EVERY TABLE a bottle of patron and cristal. (1st time I ever had cristal, from what I remember I didn't think it was worth even "retail" price...Dom P is great though) They had a cart roll out, I will say the energy of the whole room changed as that moment brought every table together. I'd like to think this is how it feels when partying in monaco or st tropez when everyone has enough cash to go around. (It creates this sort of "bond")

What I Think Overall Though...
Never do it for the sake of having sex AND DO NOTdo it at venues where you are a regular or want to be a regular. (I'll explain in a bit) Only do it for the sake of...
- Having your own group section so your not lost in the crowds (I really dislike crowds)
- Visiting another country/city with riends and want to take the "easy way" entry as opposed to going to some shitty bar or "working it" to get in and be given free shit
- To rock out with a mixed group

Thing is, besides the ultra rich everyone else is just using the lazy/easy way into the venue. Thing is those people can never be an actual "regular" or human decoration because he is who makes the venue profitable so he is now a client. Clubs in NY put these people in a database. If you spend so much money as a client you'll probably be asked to invest in a new club in the coming years.

Flipside, if you're some "random" in a RANDOM CITY or COUNTRY with 8-10 chicks doorman, promoters, managers, owners will be like "wtf is this!?!?"

Especially if it's done the NY way meaning the hottest chicks you can find. In this case, you have 4-5 girls with you who are gorgeous and you can literally "work it" socially connecting with all the "connector" types because there is an unspoken "he's in the know" sort of realm when it comes to bottle service oriented venues.

(Keep in mind, although NY venues are changing their business model drastically...Real high end venues have no cover charge nor VIP section because anyone inside is considered VIP. Places with VIP sections will be even more eager to connect with you because "the rope" inside a club is meant to segment a "hot crowd" to entice men to buy.)

I can go on and on about all this but IMO the most cost effective way is to just hangout with girls when hitting such venues, if you see a guy with only girls chat with him and ask if he works there, tell him you have a few girls and ask if he can take care of them for you.

Based on the venue (and average quality) if your girls are above average in relation then he will SURELY agree. I recently did this while blackedout solo when I ran into 2 girls I know. I was in no shape of figuring out who I knew so I just went to a random table. Next thing you know I fully blackedout because apparently they were throwing drinks my way.

Also before I forget...

Depending on the venue and how you roll you can ask to speak to manager/host/owner (depending on club, city, their setup/formula) and get a FREE table so longs it's obvious "your in the know" based on the crew your rolling with.

Although I haven't been able to test this on a "no connections at all" basis in a new city. For a guy traveling, if he did daygame meeting some hot ass chicks, say he flew in on tuesday. Does daygame and some light nightgame on tues/wed...

Thursday he goes to whatever club he is going to either with 1-2 girls or solo, talk with doorman about the venue stating you want to check it out to see if you should comeback with your "girls". Asking how it is, what's energy like, shit that sounds like your a dude who hangs with girls and likes to have fun. He lets you in, when you leave tell them you just might come through friday or saturday with a crew if he (doorman) can take care of you.

Invite all the girls tuesday, wednesday, thursdays (you did meet girls in the club right?)

Show up with 5-6 hot chicks either the doorman truly takes care of you (free drinks or table) or simply greet the staff and ask to speak to VIP host or manager. Then tell them the city your coming from stating you liked his spot so you decided to bring some people to have a good time.

Some might view this as too hard or value taking...

Thing is, these clubs who charge ridiculous prices are making tons of cash per sale. MOST of the top venues will not lose a connector with a hot crowd (who he doesn't have to pay) just to make another $2500. The smart VIP hosts will probably just introduce you to an inhouse promoter/host and hang at his table (even better) in order to save up space.

The Real Truth
The high end scene is just a "decoration" for the guys spending money...

You go to any "jet set" region, there is ALWAYS some sort of host/connector amongst the crowd who are getting free stuff...

And they're not necessarily promoters.
- A guy who runs a brunch party used to give me tickets to get free bottles because I used to "hold down" a connector friend table/section when he never actually used to even show up. The guy would just notice the table had girls and lots of fun was going on so he'd just give me or tell the waiter to take care of me.

- A millionaire buisnessman was asked by the owner of 1 particular club to host (hold down) a table at his venue on a weekly basis because the businessman girlfriend was a supermodel so his group always consisted of 4-5 models.

- My boy who wanted me to go to cannes he not only had if I remember correctly a $45,000 dollar villa BUT for 2-3 months he hosted a table. His "connector" was a owner of a high end venue in milan. So essentially him, milan owner, his boy and another guy had everything free out in cannes meanwhile many people were spending tons at the level of reciept above.

P.S...It never occurred to me how much I actually worked it but once you can cold approach shit is simply about "putting pieces together" and "walking the walk". Many people asked me why I didn't just work in nightlife BUT it's too much annoyances that kills my fun AND your "stuck" with whatever venues contract you.

[RealityCheck]

I typically can't stand clubs. I have a friend that I occasionally go out with that hooks me up with free bottle service. This person doesn't mind that I basically mooch of the free top-shelf alcohol, and then do my own thing roaming around the club, occasionally coming back to refill my drink. I also usually skip the line outside with this person.

It's only in these extremely favorable and unique circumstances that I'll even consider going to a club.

A table with bottle service is, in my experience, conducive to being anchored down. For that reason, I think that the average guy that isn't a promotor or in some position of status at a club shouldn't drop money on bottle service, even if he makes enough to easily afford it. It's not an issue of money.

The reason is that it actually puts you at a disadvantage by immobilizing you, and as far as I know doesn't make 8s and 9s throw themselves at you, unless it's to tease you so that they'll get free alcohol.

[Irish]

Having a table can be gold if it's done right. If done wrong it leads to a pussy-less and very very expensive evening.

Sure it's pricey but generally at club which does bottle service the bar drinks will also be pricey. However it's these venues that will attract the hottest chicks and couple of bottles split 4-5 ways really isn't THAT expensive. In places like here in Singapore it actually works out cheaper than if you drank the same quantity of alcohol queing up at the bar each time.

The upside of having a table:

Free entry and queue skip - saving cash, time and the organisational hassle of ensuring you all get into the venue (if you are in a say guy-heavy crew). Nuff said
Avoid the bar scrum - you can get a drink any time without wasting time having to battle for the barman's attention in a busy venue.
Social proof - I don't care what anyone says, guys on a table definitely have a leg up over your standard dudes sharking round the venue cold approaching in the eyes of most chicks. Tho they're not going to automatically assume you're some sort of baller but guys who generally roll with bottles/tables usually have something going on.
Base to bounce back and isolating chicks - Very useful, particularly if there's lots of guys trying to 'cut your lunch'. You can bounce a chick (and her friends if you so wish) back to your own private area and isolate her from any competition you may have. An offer to bring a girl to your table for a drink is rarely turned down. You can often leave them there for your wings to occupy while you go find some more girls. Also your wings will be bringing girls back too for you to get to know. Before you know it there are loads of girls you know at your table and you have preselection coming out of your ass.
Everyone raises their game - Also key, when you get a table everyone knows they're priced into a big evening. Usually this then results in everyone going semi-nuts having a good time and pumping eachother's state. To the point that you guys become the party, you are all on fire having a good time and not giving a fuck. Which is like a magnet for hot chicks.
Repeat business - If you don't finish the bottle you will get a card so you can come back to finish it later. To which you will usually get a free entry and queue skip again when you come back.

The table in of itself will not get you laid. I have seen plenty of dudes with a bottle at a table all looking around wondering why the chicks aren't backflipping onto their dicks. However if you and your friends have a bit of game and put in the work, having the table really does help to leverage up your game and pull some real quality ass.

It is however absolutely key that the guys you are splitting the bottle with are solid and know the score. ie they aren't the type to try to get girls by trying to bait them over with free drinks and know how to recognise bottle rats and don't fall for their bullshit. Your drinks will disappear and the costs will rack up very quickly with just one of these types in your crew. Then you have the guys with the selective memory when it comes to squaring up the bill. So, if possible, best to try and sort out the cash up front. Basically make sure you are only with guys you trust and have some level of game. Things can very easily spiral out of control cost wise if you're not careful.

Also a good compromise, say if it's a particularly flashy club and the minimum spend for a table is a too punchy, is just have a bottle without table ie posted up at the bar instead. As long as the bar area isn't super rammed it acts as a mini-table and often can be even better than a table where some clubs have tables in slightly isolated locations from the action. You are going to be in prime human traffic area at the bar and having a bottle there gives you license to have your own little section of the bar. Ideal if there is only 2 or 3 of you.

The majority of my best nights out for both pulling quality ass and having a great time definitely have been when I have got a table with some mates. Tho my game tends to be focused on this type of higher end nightclub game anyway. Again you don't need a table but it really does help supercharge both your and your crew's efforts, particularly with the real dime piece girls.

[Phoenix]

(12-07-2014 08:27 AM)Irish Wrote:  

I have seen plenty of dudes with a bottle at a table all looking around wondering why the chicks aren't backflipping onto their dicks.

Lol. I hate it when chicks aren't backflipping onto my dick.

I will be using this line.