[igottapoop]

I tutor these silly tests and am probably the only person to get a 170/170/6 on the GRE and 800 on the GMAT.

Ask me anything.

[Laurifer]

Came into this thread with genuine interest.

Read "800 on the GMAT"

Am now leaving...

[Sonsowey]

These tests are heavily "g loaded" meaning they test general intelligence more than anything.

If you got perfect scores on these tests, you are very smart. You will not help someone who is average or below average get exceptional scores with tutoring. You can raise their score a bit no doubt, but if they're at the 50th percentile, you're not bringing them to the 90th percentile.

You may, however, be smart enough to make them think you will get them exceptional scores. And get paid for that.

[Lion of Judah]

Ha... Good thread!

[Menace]

Here's how to crush the GRE:

1. Be smart
2. Don't be dumb

OP what did you do with those scores?

[Wahawahwah]

(11-12-2014 12:25 AM)Laurifer Wrote:  

Came into this thread with genuine interest.

Read "800 on the GMAT"

Am now leaving...

I did get a 770 on the GMAT about a year ago.

It is not a test of intelligence in so much as a test of mental fortitude.

The first section is the AWA (purely language based, some light analysis)
The second section is the IR (not difficult, but mentally taxing)

Then you get to the Quant section
Then to the Verbal

Because of the hordes of students who score well in the Quant section, it is CRITICAL to do well on the Verbal... I think a 44 in verbal was 94%ile and 50 in Quant was just 90%ile last year. Those numbers may have changed a bit this time round.

The difficulty with verbal is that it is a little non-linear as compared to quant, and to get to it you have to wade through 3 hours of AWA, IR and quant so the brain is also taxed a fair bit.

- SC is the easiest to improve (verbal)
- Do NOT skip the AWA and IR when solving mocks it helps your brain get acclimated to working hard for 4 ish hours non stop. This is probably the single most important thing when you practice tests. It is not uncommon to score ~50 points less on the real exam if you've been skipping the AWA and IR during practice
- Try to solve mocks at a time of day similar to when you actually take the test
- Beware of over preparation and subject fatigue.... from what I've noticed (sample size <10) those who over prepare underperform -- ideally you want to give the exam close to when you peak
- Do not over stretch on the IR section... it is MEANT to tire you out. Make a few estimates of how many questions you need to get to an acceptable grade (6/8 is decent), and then solve the easiest ones -- SKIP the crazy/tough/unnecessarily complicated questions, one is better off saving that energy for the quant and verbal sections

[iknowexactly]

I got 790 V and over 700/ I forget on the other GRE tests.

I've always scored high on aptitude tests, but one thing I did anyone can do.

I found out how long it took me to reach peak alertness after waking up. I found out it was about
three hours I think.

The test is at 8 AM, but I normally did not get up at 5 AM. If you get up at 5 Am on JUST THAT DAY, you might feel uncomfortable

So I gradually set my alarm for earlier and earlier times starting about two weeks before, so 8 AM was right when I was used to being at peak alertness. In those days you could bring a Coke in with you,
so when I sat down caffeinated out, I was ready to kill a mofo and did lolzllz.

Also learning speed reading is important so you have time to think about questions-- It basically consisted of forcing my eyes to zig-zag down the page, faster than I could normally read, if you do that your mind will start to take in chunks of words including more than one line at once.

[Wayout]

Mental fortitude can be easily enhanced with drugs like adderol or semax. That's my contribution to this tread.

[Kuba]

I'm really interested in GRE

I live in Italy and here we don't have live preparation courses about GRE. What is the best way to prepare this test and how much time would be ideal to spend on it?

[Pestilence]

I'm going to be taking the GMAT test in a year. Which are the best books to start studying from? (all subjects)

[The_CEO]

No offense, but the OP's forum name does not inspire confidence in SAT, GRE, GMAT test taking expertise.

[edtf]

There's ways to rig the GRE. I took mine back in 2008 and studied for 3 months, got a 570 verbal and 720 math, and 5 writing. My chinese roommate at the time could not hold a conversation in english, but got a 720 verbal and 780 math with a 2 writing. He's told me how he does it, PM me for details

[Suits]

(11-19-2014 12:16 AM)The_CEO Wrote:  

No offense, but the OP's forum name does not inspire confidence in SAT, GRE, GMAT test taking expertise.

Neither does his title's punctuation.

[Bad Hussar]

I have been helping someone who is writing the SAT's soon. My advice has been that he should study, but not think that studying for infinite amounts of time will improve his score much, or at all, beyond a certain point. I've claimed 50 hours of focused study time will make a person reach their limits, after which the test becomes essentially an IQ test. I admit I've pulled the 50 hours figure out of thin air, but I stand by the principle that after a certain amount of study, and a fairly small amount at that, they really do become IQ tests. And I am not optimistic about the ability to increase IQ...

As for gaming the tests. Ja, I know that gaming standardised tests is pretty much a central feature of Chinese culture, especially Chines in America or wishing to study there. But I'm not sure that they are gaming the tests so much as studying to maximise their score, and the high score attained is a genuine refection of a high IQ. The case of English second language student who can barely speak the language getting high verbal percentiles should be a concern for the test administrators, but I'm not sure I would call this gaming the TEST. More like gaming the system. Maybe a distinction without a difference. In any event, racism or not, the institutions who use these tests for admission will be less impressed with a Chinese, for example, student getting a high mark than other students, and in any event really do look at multiple factors in order to decide whether to admit. If you are clearly the type of person who spends all his time thinking of ways to game tests you're not getting into Harvard or Yale. You'll inevitably suck at the other things they look for. Maybe MIT of you are really, really smart...

In the SAT's a key way to game tests, by always choosing a predetermined choice in multiple choice tests were you don't know the answer for sure is removed because it uses negative marking and includes quite a few non-multiple choice questions in the quantitative sections. Not sure whether the GMAT uses negative marking now. If not then this option is available. But the GMAT has really smart people devising the "computer adaptive" nature of the test and I think if you believe that you can outfox them you are wrong. Not only would you need to be smarter than them, which is unlikely, but they have a built in advantage since they set the rules of the game which you must follow. You're better off spending time you would have thinking how to game the GMAT on leisure activities that bring you pleasure.

[Fortis]

(11-12-2014 10:47 AM)Sonsowey Wrote:  

These tests are heavily "g loaded" meaning they test general intelligence more than anything.

If you got perfect scores on these tests, you are very smart. You will not help someone who is average or below average get exceptional scores with tutoring. You can raise their score a bit no doubt, but if they're at the 50th percentile, you're not bringing them to the 90th percentile.

You may, however, be smart enough to make them think you will get them exceptional scores. And get paid for that.

I was slightly above average (1710 IIRC, nothing to brag about)on the tests despite being a miserable student all through high school.

I do agree, to an extent. I've worked in Exam prep as an SAT & ACT Verbal and Writing tutor for going on three years, so I know a fair bit about the tests and can usually tell how well a student will do just by talking to them.
My one kid who managed to pull an 800 in critical reading was brilliant without my help. All I had to do was walk him through a few of the traps built into the test and he knocked it out of the park.

I've noticed a few things; yes, super smart kids will disproportionate outscore their less intelligent peers, but an average student (1520 between the three sections) can get up about 300 points if they're secure in their ability to analysis question types and omit questions they know they'll get wrong. It takes a pretty enlightened high schooler to admit that they have no chance of getting a question right, but there are some out there.

I would say that the SAT tests a student's reasoning skills more than anything. That's why guys tend to out score girls. It's an uncomfortable truth, but my male students are better at mathematics and tend to have stronger reasoning skills. If they're diligent and willing to study and apply the methods I teach, they usually will improve much more quickly than my female students. The test has a paradoxical element built into it: it punishes you for guessing, but if you don't answer enough questions your score will be lower than it should be.

If a student can't tell you why a question is wrong (based on the information presented) then they're going to have a terrible time with the test. And I think a student's ability to do so is usually indicative of higher intellect, so perhaps you're right.

I haven't taken the GMAT or the GRE, so I don't have anything to contribute to that side of the discussion.

Edit: grammar

[Hades]

(11-12-2014 01:13 PM)Menace Wrote:  

Here's how to crush the GRE:

1. Be smart
2. Don't be dumb

OP what did you do with those scores?

You forgot the most important last steps ->

3. ????
4. Profit!

[VolandoVengoVolandoVoy]

LOL @ Chinese students "gaming" the SAT/GRE.
They just cheat.
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/10/31/world/...ating.html

[Bad Hussar]

(11-21-2014 09:05 AM)VolandoVengoVolandoVoy Wrote:  

LOL @ Chinese students "gaming" the SAT/GRE.
They just cheat.
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/10/31/world/...ating.html

Yes, I heard about this. If a large enough number of people cheat it will show up "statistically" and all results from affected areas will be withheld. As in the case you mentioned.

Don't really want to get into a race debate, but this sort of behavior is one reason Computer Science degree's form UBC have plummeted in value. In "Chinese Culture" cheating isn't really seen as cheating apparently. So a group of students will get together and split a project into sections and each student will complete only that section. Slight changes made before submission to try to avoid detection. Great teamwork, but if that was not the intention of the instructor it really is cheating. Because each student wouldn't have the comprehensive knowledge they appear to have. The result is that an employer would largely ignore the qualification and set their own tests to be passed during several interviews.

[komatiite]

Any you guys know about the FE exam? I think I need to write it

[DVY]

I did those prep courses for SAT. I was relatively good to begin with, but SAT group tutoring, repetition and practice test taking strategies help.

I went from 2000 PSAT/practice test to 2310 (final score).

I had to relearn grammar, verbal and vocab like crazy BECAUSE it gets exponentially harder the higher you try to score... The math section is all about avoiding tricks.

[Bad Hussar]

(11-25-2014 03:44 AM)DVY Wrote:  

I did those prep courses for SAT. I was relatively good to begin with, but SAT group tutoring, repetition and practice test taking strategies help.

I went from 2000 PSAT/practice test to 2310 (final score).

I had to relearn grammar, verbal and vocab like crazy BECAUSE it gets exponentially harder the higher you try to score... The math section is all about avoiding tricks.

Yes, it is definitely NOT an IQ test if you have little or no preparation. But the more you prepare the more it becomes an IQ test. The administrators can't admit this because of the controversy surrounding IQ tests.

DVY:
How many hours did you spend on preparing before you started plateauing? My thumbsuck number is 50 hours of focused study for the main SAT before a student would likely level off. Does this seem more or less in the ballpark to you?

[DVY]

At the 50 hr mark, I probably gained 50-100 pts but nothing crazy.

I plateauted around 2150 (still a stellar score) and then had to make a huge push to get my writing and verbal skills up. This took me 8 weeks of bootcamp studying (25 hrs/week of studying each week +5 hours practice test/week).

Then I had to retool my grammar and reading comprehension skills. I was always strong in math (650+), but my verbal and writing were weaker. Thats were the bulk of my gains.

Then its just practice and more practice and more refinement. Time management and keeping cool under test pressure. I really learned a lot about how to study for college from SAT brute force tactics (and also what not to do).

It took me two rounds of 8 week bootcamps to get to 2310. I am listed on some "Hall of Fame" wall on their prep center along with all other ppl who scored 2300-2400.

[RexImperator]

(11-12-2014 07:34 PM)iknowexactly Wrote:  

I got 790 V and over 700/ I forget on the other GRE tests.

Impressive. That is pretty much amazing "genius" level on the verbal section (790) but just OK to not-so-good on the maths (700).

I applied to a few engineering graduate schools and I think part of the reason I did not get in was that my math score was weak (740). Most the top programs have an average applicant score of 780-800. (Or the equivalent today out of 180 points.) You basically need a perfect score, or can miss one question. They are really inflated by all the foreign students from Asia. You'll see that the verbal scores are fairly low, though.

I've always been a little bit slow on completing math tests, and it only takes a couple of incomplete or missed questions on these computer-adaptive tests to lose a whole bunch of points.