[Irish]

Two things I hate about backpackers:

1. Are tighter than a cats arse with money.

2. Will never ever go anywhere or do anything unless The Lonely Planet tells them it's ok....

[rottenapple]

BB, great post you should hit up Africa if you haven't already. In there you will still find the true travellers in abundance. I used to be a couchsurfinghost in East Africa. Some of the people that crossed my path... A guy who walked through the middle of Congo for 2 years, another guy who smuggled diamonds from Sierra Leone and ended up kidnapped by a rebel group, people biking from Egypt to South Africa, etc.

I think its one of the things you learn if you travel a lot. At first you want to see all the big monuments and sights, some of which are amazing I agree, but after a while you just want to find authentic culture, void from all the things you in a way are trying to escape in the west. Now when someone tells me they went on another trip to NY or Sydney, I just shrug, I'd take Banghladesh or Botswana or whatever over these any day.

[Beyond Borders]

^ Good idea. Africa has definitely crossed my mind quite a few times.

[Veloce]

(10-21-2014 09:30 AM)MaleDefined Wrote:  

Wow!

To be fair BB, there are very few men in the world wired like you. It's just the way you are, and you do certainly thrive in that 'finger on the pulse' type of living. I don't think backpackers, when used in the worst connotation, even realize that they're basically on a cruise ship type of experience. What they're doing is backpacking, and there's no sense in trying to reason with them about it.

Even though I live in SEA, I do sometimes enjoy going out and being able to interact in this type of environment, but at the same time I do really appreciate that I can close the door to my apartment and live a Western life that I feel comfortable with and am used to.

It is a worthy experience - that is living away from your native culture - one that everyone should certainly experience at least once in their lives. Just don't think for a second that it carries the glamor or privilege you may think it does.

It's different if you live there.

Unless you're a very rare, almost kind-of-fucked up guy, you're going to need to preserve some of your cultural identity. You're going to need to have people around you that speak English, or have some commonality in interests, sense of humor, that sort of thing.

You can't take a man from one part of the Earth, drop him in a completely alien environment, and expect him to thrive. That scenario gets glorified a bit, sometimes on these boards, but it's not realistic whatsoever. Assimilating to a new culture takes a long time, depending on how alien it is.

Guys that are just passing through for weeks or months, that's one thing. They get their fill of the exotic and then come home to familiar comforts. But if you're living there fulltime you gotta live the highest standard of life you can in order to deal with the daily culture shock. There's no glory in living in a backwater shithole for an extended period of time just so you can say you did it.

Besides, your apartment might be considered baller by NYC standards, but you're hardly living in an ivory tower. 10 steps away and it's chickens running around and dudes getting haircuts on the sidewalk

[MikeS]

(10-21-2014 09:39 AM)Irish Wrote:  

Two things I hate about backpackers:

1. Are tighter than a cats arse with money.

2. Will never ever go anywhere or do anything unless The Lonely Planet tells them it's ok....

I agree with some or most of the criticism in this thread about backpacker "culture" (which includes your point 2), but as far as budgets go not everyone can afford to stay in 3-5 star hotels and eat in restaurants every day when they're traveling.
Or it might be a matter of prioritizing a longer trip over a shorter one on the same budget (I'm leaving for Thailand in two weeks for instance, I chose six weeks over eg. two with three times the comforts).

I think it's great that travel is a realistic option for a larger number of people these days.

[Patriarch]

I love getting my hair cut on the street

[EuroSlumming]

Some interesting points BB.
I'm not so sure about the whole cultural experience, some people will say that's what they're after but the reality is that most people are after a break from normal life. Six months cruising around SEA lounging around on the beach, getting drunk, eating cheap Thai food and chasing girls whether it's locals or backpackers isn't so bad. After that most of them will be taking up some kind of career so it's that one time break with no responsibility.

I currently do the hanging out for a while kind of travelling and I can't say I really care about the cultural experience either. I just want a place that has good value and hot girls - damn I'm shallow. I don't think my type of travelling is in anyway superior to the backpackers or holidaymakers, it's just a different time of life and style of travelling.

RottenApple made a good point above, if you go to the well worn destinations you will find a more homogenous group of travellers/backpackers, if you go the less travelled route you tend to meet a wider range of travellers.

[Papi Rico]

(10-21-2014 10:40 AM)Veloce Wrote:  

You can't take a man from one part of the Earth, drop him in a completely alien environment, and expect him to thrive.

Why so much focus on the place, rather than the man?

A man can in fact 'drop himself' in a Chinese city for 6 weeks, and in that period he can acquire basic spoken Chinese, finish a Tolstoy novel, add one pound of solid muscle, game any girl who crosses his path and achieve multiple bangs, inspire locals and establish the foundation for lasting friendships, all while tending to his online business and pre-existing skill set.

He will then accomplish similar results in Tashkent, Tbilisi, Addis Ababa, Seville, San Salvador, and Belo Horizonte. And that is what I call thriving. It requires a lot of drive and discipline to sustain the above lifestyle, but why characterize something unrealistic when this forum itself is filled with living examples to the contrary?

[Papi Rico]

(10-20-2014 12:11 PM)nomadicdude Wrote:  

[Vietnamese] girls generally are very sweet. They have not been corrupted by the west or by money like Chinese girls.

Let me dispel some things, and I say this after over a year in Saigon, with multiple trips to Hanoi and Danang: Vietnamese women are extremely money-oriented and are increasingly adopting 'Western' attitudes towards dating.


1) What's your job?: When you first interact with any Vietnamese girl, whether by chatting her up on Vietnam Cupid, approaching her at Skybar on Saturday night, or saying hello to her at the petrol station, she will invariably try to gauge your present net worth. In an online scenario, she will do this by asking almost immediately what you do for a living, though this will sometimes be cloaked in the form of "what are you doing in Vietnam?" In #2, she will form a judgment based on your presentation. If you look good, she will simply delay in asking the question. In scenario #3, she will make assumptions based on your motorbike - it's the way she has been doing it all her life. By this question she wants to know if you will provide for her. If you stay long enough, you will have at least one girl directly ask you your monthly salary.

When gaming in high-end venues, presume guilt rather than innocence. A girl may flat out lie about her own or her father's occupation in an attempt to appear self-sufficient. Some of these girls are no different from the favela cariocas who get made up once a week to woo a backpacker in Copacabana. Yes, they will appear very sweet.

Even if the girl is otherwise legit, know that most Vietnamese models and actresses, no matter how famous, are seeing a local business tycoon on the side. Compared to their counterparts in Thailand and Indo, they are not well-paid and could not otherwise continue living the lifestyle they need to appear in local tabloids, an unspoken requirement for future contracts. Status/social standing trumps artistic merit; Google "Vietnamese dj's" to get an idea of my point.

In practice, many of the girls you will find at the high-class expat-oriented venues (Xu, Blanchys) will have their financial needs already met, so they're just out to have fun. That's OK!! ....unless:

You want to wife up a high-end local, in which case she needs to be able to turn to her friends and say "look, I'm with this foreign "businessman/entrepreneur/lawyer/banker"; the moment you say you dedicate your life to a calling that does not invoke an immediate association with cash is the moment that you lost her.

In connection with this topic it is also worth noting that hot, high-end girls strongly prefer 35+ men. Men of this demographic, in their eyes, are less likely to fool around and, *gasp*, tend to have money in the bank. In no other country have I been more frequently rejected upon revealing my age.

Money is of vital importance in Vietnam.

2) Brief observations on the Westernization of Vietnamese women:

-As in the West, online dating/messaging apps are making it extremely easy for girls to date many guys at once, and there is no barrier, cultural or otherwise to doing so. Contrary to what you may think, you smashing her on Monday night will not make her cancel her dates with Flavio on Tuesday and Francois on Wednesday. Vietnam Cupid, OKC, Tinder, and WeChat were all great for securing consistent poon in Saigon.

-I've been hearing the term 'sex partner' get tossed around more frequently than I would expect in a conservative society. It is not uncommon for girls to openly brag about having a present or past fuck buddy, even immediately post-lay. One note on this front: Vietnamese women find great pride in sleeping with a 'strong' man. Strength in this context means stamina. Being called a 'weak' man (i.e. having little stamina) is a capital insult.

-The better her English, the less likely she is to cook for you and clean your house. Correlation, not causation.

-Though Vietnamese women are indeed very fit and take great care of their bodies, the first McDonald's in Vietnam opened its doors just several months ago

---
Please take this as an extremely narrow account of Vietnamese women, and one specifically directed at the cited quote.

By and large, Vietnamese women are indeed very sweet and make great partners, but certainly not because they are unconcerned with money or are dissimilar to their Western counterparts, or at least the ones you are likely to meet in HCMC/Hanoi.

Now is as good of a time as ever to base up in Vietnam. Location independent entrepreneurs increasingly bored of/restless with BKK and Chiangmai are arriving in hordes. I recommend checking Saigon and Danang. Avoid Hanoi.

[Americas]

I don't like to paint backpackers with the same brush just as I don't like to paint whole populations with a brush. Many backpackers are shit, but so are many people you encounter throughout your life. I think, pure numbers sake, I have met more chill people that are backpackers than any other subset of people. I've met some really cool people throughout the years on the road and made some pretty sick friends.

I would also consider myself a backpacker. I use a backpack because it's much easier to move around. I don't like to stay in hostels if I don't have to, but sometimes they are a good option. I don't travel with a lot of money because I am a minimalist. I have a passive income of around $1100 a month and it works for me.

That being said, I don't go through gringo trails and I don't party where ever I go. I spend most of my time in large cities and I eat at typical restaurants and mingle with local girls. I try to avoid any areas or cities that are infested with tourists, particularly beach towns.

So yes, I am a backpacker and I am not afraid to admit it. But I also don't subscribe to the type of culture that many on here dismiss. There are a lot of backpackers out there that are like me, and that I mesh well with.

I also think it really depends on where you are and what type of quality of backpacker you will find. I mean, if you go to Cusco or Monanita, you are going to run into these type of people. If you go to Belo Horizonte, Bucaramanga, and Cordoba you will probably meet a very different subset of backpackers.

I mean, I could also easily flip the equation around. There are just as many wankers with a lot of money who don't immerse themselves in the culture whatsoever either. These types of people don't learn the language, they stay in fancy hotels, they rely on tourist traps, and they don't experience really anything outside of their comfort zone. I look at these people no differently than the average loser backpacker. Same shit, different pile.

[Veloce]

(10-21-2014 11:35 AM)Papi Rico Wrote:  

(10-21-2014 10:40 AM)Veloce Wrote:  

You can't take a man from one part of the Earth, drop him in a completely alien environment, and expect him to thrive.

Why so much focus on the place, rather than the man?

A man can in fact 'drop himself' in a Chinese city for 6 weeks, and in that period he can acquire basic spoken Chinese, finish a Tolstoy novel, add one pound of solid muscle, game any girl who crosses his path and achieve multiple bangs, inspire locals and establish the foundation for lasting friendships, all while tending to his online business and pre-existing skill set.

He will then accomplish similar results in Tashkent, Tbilisi, Addis Ababa, Seville, San Salvador, and Belo Horizonte. And that is what I call thriving. It requires a lot of drive and discipline to sustain the above lifestyle, but why characterize something unrealistic when this forum itself is filled with living examples to the contrary?

You're taking that sentence out of context. Afterwards I said:

Quote:

But if you're living there fulltime you gotta live the highest standard of life you can in order to deal with the daily culture shock

What is fitness? A successful dating life? Making friends? These are factors in one's quality of life.

A lot depends on the person and the place, which is why I made sure to say "alien", though maybe some more emphasis should have been made.

Everyone clicks with different places differently. What could be one man's paradise is another man's shithole. The point I was making in response to MaleDefined's post is that if you're going to expat someplace that's drastically outside of your comfort zone, your first priority should be maximizing your quality of life.

[Veloce]

(10-21-2014 01:50 PM)Papi Rico Wrote:  

By and large, Vietnamese women are indeed very sweet and make great partners, but certainly not because they are unconcerned with money or are dissimilar to their Western counterparts, or at least the ones you are likely to meet in HCMC/Hanoi.

Now is as good of a time as ever to base up in Vietnam. Location independent entrepreneurs increasingly bored of/restless with BKK and Chiangmai are arriving in hordes. I recommend checking Saigon and Danang. Avoid Hanoi.

Can you elaborate?

1. It's interesting that you lump Hanoi and HCMC women together, when many guys have noted large differences between the two.

2. Saying that Vietnamese women are dissimilar to their Western counterparts....that's a pretty bold statement. When was the last time you had to deal with American women on a regular basis?

3. Why avoid Hanoi to base up as opposed to HCMC and Danang?

[Chaos]

(10-21-2014 09:37 AM)MaleDefined Wrote:  

(10-21-2014 09:23 AM)Veloce Wrote:  

To me the reward in travelling is going to a place and immersing yourself in the uncomfortable and new. Duck into a side street, order up a plate of exotic food that you can't pronounce, try to talk to locals...that kind of shit.

Roll out a motor bike with a flat tire and watch the guy curse at you in Vietnamese while people sit next to you eating Pho for breakfast and then charge you $2.50 for 15 minutes of manual labor.

Ha. I paid only 1$ for that in Vietnam!

[Beyond Borders]

(10-21-2014 02:07 PM)Americas Wrote:  

I don't like to paint backpackers with the same brush just as I don't like to paint whole populations with a brush. Many backpackers are shit, but so are many people you encounter throughout your life. I think, pure numbers sake, I have met more chill people that are backpackers than any other subset of people. I've met some really cool people throughout the years on the road and made some pretty sick friends.

I would also consider myself a backpacker. I use a backpack because it's much easier to move around. I don't like to stay in hostels if I don't have to, but sometimes they are a good option. I don't travel with a lot of money because I am a minimalist. I have a passive income of around $1100 a month and it works for me.

That being said, I don't go through gringo trails and I don't party where ever I go. I spend most of my time in large cities and I eat at typical restaurants and mingle with local girls. I try to avoid any areas or cities that are infested with tourists, particularly beach towns.

So yes, I am a backpacker and I am not afraid to admit it. But I also don't subscribe to the type of culture that many on here dismiss. There are a lot of backpackers out there that are like me, and that I mesh well with.

I also think it really depends on where you are and what type of quality of backpacker you will find. I mean, if you go to Cusco or Monanita, you are going to run into these type of people. If you go to Belo Horizonte, Bucaramanga, and Cordoba you will probably meet a very different subset of backpackers.

I mean, I could also easily flip the equation around. There are just as many wankers with a lot of money who don't immerse themselves in the culture whatsoever either. These types of people don't learn the language, they stay in fancy hotels, they rely on tourist traps, and they don't experience really anything outside of their comfort zone. I look at these people no differently than the average loser backpacker. Same shit, different pile.

You make some good points, but to be clear, I wasn't necessarily referring to anyone who travels cheap. Many of my comments may be particular to the Southeast Asian backpacker crowd, which seems to take the stereotype to a whole new level. And I mentioned myself multiple times that the brush didn't apply to everyone who traveled with a backpack but rather a specific breed - the majority, you could say.

I myself am a minimialist. I travel with a backpack. I've done a lot of traveling and living on a similar budget to you, sometimes even less.

[TripleG]

Anytime I think of Vietnam I think of Full Metal Jacket and "the street hotties",

wonder if that is still around.

[seabridge]

Local girl vs backpacker. Hmmm wonder who i should pick..

[Irish]

Which one is the backpacker? I can only see the local girl next to a hippo in MC hammer pants...

[Patriarch]

(10-22-2014 03:46 AM)Irish Wrote:  

Which one is the backpacker? I can only see the local girl next to a hippo in MC hammer pants...

Is this something that exploded in popularity back home that I wasn't aware of? It seems like every chunky white girl out here wears those same god damn pants. It's worse when they also have trashy New Balances with white socks.

[OnlyMarryInTajikistan]

What is the most conservative, yet accessible, Asian country for girls?

[memcpy]

I've always wondered why backpackers, consist mostly of Western/European white men. You never see an "Asian backpacker" from Vietnam/china/Japanese equivalent in America - touting a large backpack, hiking boots, showing off that they "backpacker" rather than a tourist. Their language probably doesn't even contain the word.

[Beyond Borders]

(10-22-2014 09:01 AM)OnlyMarryInTajikistan Wrote:  

What is the most conservative, yet accessible, Asian country for girls?

With a mind for marriage or playing the dating markets?

[Global Entry]

It never occurred to me at any time before I'd been in Vietnam, but that chick is absolutely enormous for a Vietnamese. Now in the context of the movie, set in the 1960s or early 70's (I don't recall, maybe 70's), she would have been an absolute giant even compared to most Vietnamese men. If I saw her then, or even now, I'd definitely be checking hand size and adam's apple.

(10-21-2014 09:48 PM)TripleG Wrote:  

Anytime I think of Vietnam I think of Full Metal Jacket and "the street hotties",

wonder if that is still around.

[Global_Cocksman]

What attracts these ginormous fatties and liberal types to Asia in the first place? I don't get it.

Probably literally the last place I'd go if I were them.

[OnlyMarryInTajikistan]

(10-22-2014 10:14 AM)Beyond Borders Wrote:  

(10-22-2014 09:01 AM)OnlyMarryInTajikistan Wrote:  

What is the most conservative, yet accessible, Asian country for girls?

With a mind for marriage or playing the dating markets?

Short to medium-term relationships.

[Mentavious]

(10-22-2014 03:46 AM)Irish Wrote:  

Which one is the backpacker? I can only see the local girl next to a hippo in MC hammer pants...

Good lord how can a female get that big??????