[Ice]

I have a problem and would very much appreciate your opinion:

I sometimes run into a situation like this:

At a night out, I'm in a group of people that I don't know too well, but who are friends of friends. Sometimes, there's a girl I like in the group, too. Oftentimes, the girl knows the other guys better than I do - i.e. they're her friends. Maybe some of the guys in the group know some of my friends - i.e. they're not complete strangers, but they're not my friends either.

Sometimes, there is a person in the group that is pretty dominant and thinks he is the "leader" of the group. Sometimes, that person is actually a complete loser, but still assumes that leadership position. That person often determines where the group goes (next bar, place to get something to eat etc.) - so basically directs the group.

In a situation like that, I simply don't know how to act. I can try to challenge that wanna-be leader and take on a leadership position, but then I risk coming off as uncool and combative. It can quickly turn into a pissing contest. Since the guys in the group might know some people I know, I don't want to ruin my reputation. And trying to take on a leadership position is actually not very likely to work out anyway, because I don't know the people in the group very well - chances are, the wanna-be leader knows the people in the group better than I do. But the thing is, I just really hate it being in a group where some other guy is dictating what's happening and where the group is going - I can't stand that. It really makes me aggressive having to submit myself to a fuckhead when on a night out.

Well the only solution I see is to just leave the group, but then I just have to forget about the girls in the group.

What are your experiences in situation like this, and how do you handle them?

[Flint]

You seem to care too much about other guys and "leaders". Drop that.

Simply talk to the girl and game her, like you would game any other girl.

What's the worst that could happen? You get cockblocked by the other dudes. So what. Happens a million times if you're in the game. If your target seems out of reach, choose a new one.

[LemonDrink]

You should just direct the group regardless. Yes you may end up looking a bit uncool and it may effect the perception others may have of you. Especially if you are looking to become buddies further down the line.

But in all honestly who cares? There are x number of billions of people in the world and you can't always afford to be on the backfoot all your life.

[monster]

Depends if you want to be buddies with the guys or not. If you are, who cares about the girls. If you're not, then fuck them...it's war.

[HonantheBarbarian]

Should have spent enough time building comfort with your targets and the group so that when he directs them to X spot, you can isolate your target and suggest you two bounce to Y location instead, thereby converting him from a cockblocker to a cocksaver. He would basically remove all the obstacles from your vicinity for you.

Or if that didn't work, number close your target and tell her your not feeling the next location and that you will hit her up some other time to hang out. Never follow the group when the situation isn't going your way.

[Ice]

(09-28-2014 03:58 PM)AfgScarface Wrote:  

Should have spent enough time building comfort with your targets and the group so that when he directs them to X spot, you can isolate your target and suggest you two bounce to Y location instead, thereby converting him from a cockblocker to a cocksaver. He would basically remove all the obstacles from your vicinity for you.

Or if that didn't work, number close your target and tell her your not feeling the next location and that you will hit her up some other time to hang out. Never follow the group when the situation isn't going your way.

Yeah I think this makes a lot of sense. I think you're right, if the situation isn't going your way you just have to leave.

[tbone46]

You cannot just start "directing the group"...you have to game the guys also if you are dealing with a mixed group. This happens to me a lot because I go for younger women and women in their early/mid 20s generally still have a good amount of male friends/orbiters leftover from school that they hang out with. Just be cool, make an effort to talk to the guys right off the bat and try to add some value for them by being fun/having a sense of humor. The rewards are high here because girls are used to their guy friends talking shit about "new" guys out of insecurity so if people like you it shows huge social intelligence and is a big turn on for her. It also is a massive display of the abundance you have because you show you are not insecure about seeing her around other guys...thirsty guys flip out and get jealous in these situations.

Oh, and if some dude is messing things up beyond repair just bounce and go find another girl or get her number and see if you can meet up later as mentioned above.

[Ice]

(09-28-2014 04:59 PM)tbone46 Wrote:  

You cannot just start "directing the group"...you have to game the guys also if you are dealing with a mixed group. This happens to me a lot because I go for younger women and women in their early/mid 20s generally still have a good amount of male friends/orbiters leftover from school that they hang out with. Just be cool, make an effort to talk to the guys right off the bat and try to add some value for them by being fun/having a sense of humor. The rewards are high here because girls are used to their guy friends talking shit about "new" guys out of insecurity so if people like you it shows huge social intelligence and is a big turn on for her. It also is a massive display of the abundance you have because you show you are not insecure about seeing her around other guys...thirsty guys flip out and get jealous in these situations.

Oh, and if some dude is messing things up beyond repair just bounce and go find another girl or get her number and see if you can meet up later as mentioned above.

Yeah I know, it's always best to befriend the guys. But it's not always possible. Sometimes guys will chat with you alright, but still try to push through with their dominant frame. These situations are really tough, because on one hand you want to come across as a cool & fun guy, on the other hand you're instinct is to crush that motherfucker (at least for me). But as Monster mentioned above, in the latter case it can basically turn into "war" - sometimes that is just an undesirable outcome.

But maybe it's just best in these situations to see it in a humorous way and let the guy direct the group for a while, game the girl, and get the fuck out of there as soon as possible - either isolate with the girl or just get her number and bounce.

[Sonsowey]

This is why guys go out solo or in pairs with a wing. Social dynamics in large groups of drunk people are ridiculous.

Trying to talk to a girl and all of a sudden her friend grabs her "We have to find Nicole! I dont know where she is!"

Youre hungry and no one wants to eat. Youre not hungy and everyone wants pizza. You want to go to a bar with a good ratio but they go to a sausagefest and dont care...

Just go out solo or w a wing who has your same goals. Otherwise just go along w the drunken ride of herding cats.

[Ice]

(09-28-2014 05:53 PM)Sonsowey Wrote:  

This is why guys go out solo or in pairs with a wing. Social dynamics in large groups of drunk people are ridiculous.

Trying to talk to a girl and all of a sudden her friend grabs her "We have to find Nicole! I dont know where she is!"

Youre hungry and no one wants to eat. Youre not hungy and everyone wants pizza. You want to go to a bar with a good ratio but they go to a sausagefest and dont care...

Just go out solo or w a wing who has your same goals. Otherwise just go along w the drunken ride of herding cats.

Yeah I myself never go out with a group, but sometimes you just end up in a group - maybe you've been speaking to a girl and then find out that she's at the venue with a group of friends, and they want to go somewhere else etc.

[AneroidOcean]

(09-28-2014 03:20 PM)Ice Wrote:  

Well the only solution I see is to just leave the group, but then I just have to forget about the girls in the group.

What are your experiences in situation like this, and how do you handle them?

This is real simple. You should have no qualms about leaving a group that is not fun for you. You can leave a group, attempt to lead it, and game girls all gracefully. You need to work on your social skills. You swing from knocking on others to talking about actually physically trying to smash others with nary a mention of changing yourself.

You think there are only two options, leading the group, or submitting yourself to the "fuckhead" leading the group. Social interactions are a lot more nuanced than that, you need to get out of your comfort zone and socialize outside of the group instead of caring so much about what happens in the group.

[Ice]

(09-29-2014 01:01 PM)AneroidOcean Wrote:  

(09-28-2014 03:20 PM)Ice Wrote:  

Well the only solution I see is to just leave the group, but then I just have to forget about the girls in the group.

What are your experiences in situation like this, and how do you handle them?

This is real simple. You should have no qualms about leaving a group that is not fun for you. You can leave a group, attempt to lead it, and game girls all gracefully. You need to work on your social skills. You swing from knocking on others to talking about actually physically trying to smash others with nary a mention of changing yourself.

You think there are only two options, leading the group, or submitting yourself to the "fuckhead" leading the group. Social interactions are a lot more nuanced than that, you need to get out of your comfort zone and socialize outside of the group instead of caring so much about what happens in the group.

Yeah man, you're right, I sometimes do get quite worked up when things don't get my way. I know it's not cool. But then again, it only happens when there is a person who is trying to alpha-out me. When people are cool and act normal I'm very laid back, too. It's just when there's a person who is very dominant and overbearing when I really get pissed off. And I'm honest, in these situations I really feel like fucking smashing them in the face. But I've never done it of course. That's why I posted the question here on the forum in the first place, to find a good strategy for how to act and not get so worked up.

[The Beast1]

You shouldn't be concerned with who is the "leader" of the group unless that is what you want to be.

Hit the gym, make more money, and dress better if you want that role.

[Ice]

(09-29-2014 01:37 PM)frenchie Wrote:  

You shouldn't be concerned with who is the "leader" of the group unless that is what you want to be.

Hit the gym, make more money, and dress better if you want that role.

That is exactly why I'm so pissed off about it - most of the time these people who assume the "leadership" position have not much - if anything - going for them. If they were on a high level, accomplished, and had some really great things going for them, I would give them respect for it, and there would actually be a reason for them to be in that "leadership" position. I wouldn't call such a guy "fuckhead" for sure. But I sometimes run into situations where these overbearing people are total losers - they just happen to have a dominant personality. It's these people I'm having a problem with.

[HonantheBarbarian]

Youre wrong, he does have something going for him;

Leadership skills and social intelligence. Even if that's all he has. If anything you should be watching this guy and taking notes. See what he's doing right.

[WestIndianArchie]

Lemme gamesplain something to you

A chump decides to bounce from a tough situation. You're at the gym banging out a couple of sets, hoping that 2 lbs of new muscle 4 weeks from now is gonna help you bag bitches.

You're not a chump, you're a champ in training.

Don't dress well, eat right, work out, or make more money on the HOPE that those things will a make a bitch wanna fuck you.

Believe me, passive shit only raises your profile, it doesn't do the work. You will get more bitches in your stratosphere, but you still have to understand women and have experience with them in order to bang them the way you want. Even if you're getting chose cause you're so cute, doesn't mean you're getting choice.

Again, most everyone here is prefers an easy lay with a cute chick, to a hard lay with a chick you really want. Fuck least resistance macking.

Back to the lecture at hand,

The situation here is that the Alpha and his Betas have these chicks on lock.

You're so thirsty for these particular bitches, that you're failing to recognize how to undercut Alpha and stoke the fires of these whores.

Next time all of you go out, make it a point to bring outside bitches into your social group.

"Say stranger, come hang with the real party people" - or whatever you people might say.

Bringing new chicks into the fold does a few things

1) These new chicks are gonna be impressed that you roll with a crew, as opposed to the solo wolves and wing men. Social Proof is what they used to call it.

2) the old chicks are gonna get jealous, cause they see you can get pussy. Pre-Selection is what they used to call it.

3) the betas and alpha might appreciate you bringing resources, or they might be distracted by new tang. Folks used to read the 48 Laws of Power and think of how to apply it to these situations.

In any event, that's how you take over the group.

You make the group bigger, and then you become the focal point.

Right now the social order is set. Of course you can try and tool those dudes, but getting some points of your bros for a couple of hoes is a loser's game. Beefing over chicks is how crews get torn apart.

WIA

[Ice]

(09-29-2014 02:18 PM)AfgScarface Wrote:  

Youre wrong, he does have something going for him;

Leadership skills and social intelligence. Even if that's all he has. If anything you should be watching this guy and taking notes. See what he's doing right.

Yes sure, I'm totally aware that this is a great skill. That's what I have been saying all along in many discussions on this forum. At the end of the day, I think social dominance (along with fame) is one of the most important factors for getting girls. I was just replying to Frenchie who said that I should get bigger, get more money, and dress better - and leadership will come naturally. I think that's wrong. I think if you're a naturally dominant person and can dominate social situation, you will have a great advantage over people who have objectively a lot more going on for them.

A well dressed guy with money who is getting out-alphaed socially is still a beta in a social situation compared to the more dominant person.

[The Beast1]

(09-29-2014 02:01 PM)Ice Wrote:  

(09-29-2014 01:37 PM)frenchie Wrote:  

You shouldn't be concerned with who is the "leader" of the group unless that is what you want to be.

Hit the gym, make more money, and dress better if you want that role.

That is exactly why I'm so pissed off about it - most of the time these people who assume the "leadership" position have not much - if anything - going for them. If they were on a high level, accomplished, and had some really great things going for them, I would give them respect for it, and there would actually be a reason for them to be in that "leadership" position. I wouldn't call such a guy "fuckhead" for sure. But I sometimes run into situations where these overbearing people are total losers - they just happen to have a dominant personality. It's these people I'm having a problem with.

Hmm, I understand what you're saying.

I guess the solution is to... have just as dominant a personality if not more

Work on your posture and frame. I used to have this problem back in college. Nowadays, those same dominant guys are much lower on the totem pole than me. Hitting the gym made me startling more controlled with myself.

[Ice]

(09-29-2014 02:20 PM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:  

Lemme gamesplain something to you

Believe me, passive shit only raises your profile, it doesn't do the work. You will get more bitches in your stratosphere, but you still have to understand women and have experience with them in order to bang them the way you want. Even if you're getting chose cause you're so cute, doesn't mean you're getting choice.

Back to the lecture at hand,

The situation here is that the Alpha and his Betas have these chicks on lock.

You're so thirsty for these particular bitches, that you're failing to recognize how to undercut Alpha and stoke the fires of these whores.

Next time all of you go out, make it a point to bring outside bitches into your social group.

"Say stranger, come hang with the real party people" - or whatever you people might say.

Bringing new chicks into the fold does a few things

1) These new chicks are gonna be impressed that you roll with a crew, as opposed to the solo wolves and wing men. Social Proof is what they used to call it.

2) the old chicks are gonna get jealous, cause they see you can get pussy. Pre-Selection is what they used to call it.

3) the betas and alpha might appreciate you bringing resources, or they might be distracted by new tang. Folks used to read the 48 Laws of Power and think of how to apply it to these situations.

In any event, that's how you take over the group.

You make the group bigger, and then you become the focal point.

Right now the social order is set. Of course you can try and tool those dudes, but getting some points of your bros for a couple of hoes is a loser's game. Beefing over chicks is how crews get torn apart.

WIA

Yeah sure, if you can bring a bunch of hot girls to a group the guys will be a lot more favourable to you, I got that. If you want to become part of a group, that's definitely a good strategy. But I don't necessarily want to become a part of the group. I mean, why not, but it's not my main objective.

The strategy is also kind of complicated - I have to first connect with girls who I can then bring to the group so that I can meet the girls in the group? If you really want to infiltrate a group long term that maybe makes sense, but not if you just want to hook up.

[Ice]

(09-29-2014 02:51 PM)frenchie Wrote:  

Hmm, I understand what you're saying.

I guess the solution is to... have just as dominant a personality if not more

Yeah I know. But the question is just how far do you escalate it. As I mentioned above, it can turn into a pissing contest very quickly. I personally have no problem taking it very far - if you don't know the people and never gonna see them again, whatever. But if they're friends of friends it can have negative consequences if you're escalating too far.

[TheSlayer]

WIA gave excellent advice like always, however if you are not interested in that then just be the cool guy in the group. If the social order is set and these people are friends of friends AMOGing them may not even be the best strategy. As you yourself said it can turn into a pissing match very quickly. I have been there. Become a part of the group, you don't have to be the leader or THE 'alpha' to be able to game the girls in the social circle.

[Dr. Howard]

I grew up in a rough town, AMOG'ing would end up in spending your nights fighting outside the bar instead of gaming girls. Make friends with everyone or own the entertainment. Ie. be the one to invite them to play darts, own the bar drinking game, pool table etc. People under estimate controlling the resources for entertainment in the bar...like those dicks who post their whole group up at the bar so everyone else has to reach over them to buy drinks.

[Ice]

(09-29-2014 03:28 PM)TheSlayer Wrote:  

WIA gave excellent advice like always, however if you are not interested in that then just be the cool guy in the group. If the social order is set and these people are friends of friends AMOGing them may not even be the best strategy. As you yourself said it can turn into a pissing match very quickly. I have been there. Become a part of the group, you don't have to be the leader or THE 'alpha' to be able to game the girls in the social circle.

Yeah I am interested in it, I was just looking for advice what to do in a situation when I'm faced with an overbearing idiot. But everything WIA said def makes sense. But you're right, escalating the confrontation doesn't make any sense when these people are friends of friends.

[Tigre]

(09-28-2014 03:58 PM)AfgScarface Wrote:  

Should have spent enough time building comfort with your targets and the group so that when he directs them to X spot, you can isolate your target and suggest you two bounce to Y location instead, thereby converting him from a cockblocker to a cocksaver. He would basically remove all the obstacles from your vicinity for you.

Or if that didn't work, number close your target and tell her your not feeling the next location and that you will hit her up some other time to hang out. Never follow the group when the situation isn't going your way.

Yeah, that is a good take on things. If you can't peel her away from the group when you want to leave, you could also tell her to go with other guy's plan and if it's no good to message you in 10 minutes.

A question for the OP. Do you have a plan of your own for where you want the group to end up?

Seed the plan in a subtle way to other members of the group, especially girls, and sell them on it. If you've done this earlier in the night then when the guy suggests something, they may push for your plan instead.

You don't have to go to the whole group individually, just mention it to one or two girls. Especially those who would be classed as influential in the Disc personality assessment.

[Ice]

(09-29-2014 06:56 PM)Tigre Wrote:  

(09-28-2014 03:58 PM)AfgScarface Wrote:  

Should have spent enough time building comfort with your targets and the group so that when he directs them to X spot, you can isolate your target and suggest you two bounce to Y location instead, thereby converting him from a cockblocker to a cocksaver. He would basically remove all the obstacles from your vicinity for you.

Or if that didn't work, number close your target and tell her your not feeling the next location and that you will hit her up some other time to hang out. Never follow the group when the situation isn't going your way.

Yeah, that is a good take on things. If you can't peel her away from the group when you want to leave, you could also tell her to go with other guy's plan and if it's no good to message you in 10 minutes.

A question for the OP. Do you have a plan of your own for where you want the group to end up?

Seed the plan in a subtle way to other members of the group, especially girls, and sell them on it. If you've done this earlier in the night then when the guy suggests something, they may push for your plan instead.

You don't have to go to the whole group individually, just mention it to one or two girls. Especially those who would be classed as influential in the Disc personality assessment.

Yeah that def makes sense. I think it's good to have a plan of one's own and try to sell the others on it.