[beta_plus]

I have an EU Passport due to being 1/2 Danish. While it's great for travelling, except for delivering newspapers back in the 90s in Copenhagen, I have never been able to use for looking for employment due to all of the jobs in the EU being in places that are completely unaffordable such as SE England or Denmark. In addition, in places like Denmark, according to my observations getting a job without complete Danish fluency is not easy outside of very high demand fields such as IT & Advanced Finance. Anywhere affordable in the EU always appears to have no employment prospects, especially for people without complete technical fluency in the local language.

After a recent trip to Frankfurt, I am wondering if Southwest Germany might be an exception. Would it be realistic for an EU citizen who cannot speak German to live and work in Germany? My background is Finance and Economics, and I have extensive skills in programming related to finance, such as SQL, Excel VBA, Statistical Packages, and Scripting.

I did take 2 years of German and used to have basic fluency in Danish and would probably become conversationally and tabloid reading fluent in German within a year, but technical writing fluency would take years. Would that be a huge problem?

Moving there is tempting. Admittedly the weather on my trip was unusually nice, but I was quite taken by Frankfurt and its surroundings. I spent my time in the wine country outside of Frankfurt and in downtown Frankfurt.

It was hard not to notice a very high quality of life. Nice people, great food & booze, clean & safe streets, and fantastic infrastructure. While not cheap, prices did not strike me as ludicrous like in Scandinavia and Switzerland. Rent, at least according to this [url= (http://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/cit...t)]website[/url] also appears to be bearable unlike SE England. I recently saw a map (wish I had kept it) that indicated that Germany has the lowest unemployment in the EU. Is this true, or am I getting bad info and letting my trip color my judgement? For example, would my being also 1/2 American cause problems with taxes?

The Part that Everyone really cares about:
Are the girls great? My observations confirmed what I have read on this forum that they are not except for one thing. Women around Frankfurt are much warmer than normal for NW Europe or DC. While I didn't see any stunners, I definitely got a lot more IOIs from cute and slender (5+) women who easily passed the boner test than I normally do in Toronto, The UK, amongst Danes (I have not been to Denmark in many years), and even DC and Baltimore. Being in a place without land whales was nice, too. As well, SW Germany strikes me as a place where one can easily and affordably make weekend trips to Eastern Europe and the FSU.

Again, am I letting bad info and a nice getaway cloud my thinking? Are there things that I am not taking into consideration?

[Greek kamaki]

Yes,provided you work for international company.Also much more possible in Frankfurt than in Munich or Stuttgart.

[Teekay]

I worked in Germany for a year in the central industrial region near Cologne. Everybody spoke fluent English including the cashiers so I didn't have to improve my (rather basic) German even though I initially wanted to. However, I am an IT professional and the project's deliverables were in English so German wasn't really a requirement. It would have been an additional advantage but I was able to get by without it.

I believe Frankfurt would be similar in this regard. Not so much in more southern parts such as Bavaria where, as I heard, fluent German is expected.

If you have skills in the area of Finance and IT, as you wrote, I believe you can find a job there. Still, I encourage to work on your German now and even more once you secure your job. Germans do appreciate it when you speak it, are very polite with regards to beginner's mistakes, and overall it will give you obvious advantages as the country becomes your second home.

[Cheetah]

Beta_plus (how did you come up with that name?)

I've heard from someone that lived in Frankfurt that it isn't a safe city to walk at night.

Your Danish seems to be better than your German. Not everything in Denmark is Copenhagen. If you would end up in Copenhagen though you could live on the Swedish side, which is cheaper, and commute daily.

I don't think that you should disregard countries with high cost of living as your salary might reflect that as well. If you don't spend incredibly much at home you can save and live really well when on vacation if you go to a cheaper place. Remember, Europe is reasonably small geographically and flights reasonably cheap.

Why don't you just see where you can get a job and take it from there?

[Sp5]

Check out this website, it's the english-speaking expat website for Germany, including jobs listings:

http://www.toytowngermany.com/

Frankfurt is a little dodgy around the Hauptbahnhof and the red light district in front of it, but otherwise it's safe.

[beta_plus]

(09-13-2014 01:58 PM)Cheetah Wrote:  

Beta_plus (how did you come up with that name?)

I've heard from someone that lived in Frankfurt that it isn't a safe city to walk at night.

Your Danish seems to be better than your German. Not everything in Denmark is Copenhagen. If you would end up in Copenhagen though you could live on the Swedish side, which is cheaper, and commute daily.

I don't think that you should disregard countries with high cost of living as your salary might reflect that as well. If you don't spend incredibly much at home you can save and live really well when on vacation if you go to a cheaper place. Remember, Europe is reasonably small geographically and flights reasonably cheap.

Why don't you just see where you can get a job and take it from there?

I came up with the name because I didn't realize that changing handle names was heavily discouraged at the forum when I signed up. I wanted to have an honest handle that I could then later upgrade to "Alpha-Minus", "Alpha", and then "Alpha-Plus". I didn't see the point in trying to come across as more than I am, which is a self-aware Beta who is aware of Game and had occasional success using Game.

As for avoiding Scandinavia: Even if money was no object, my relationship with Denmark is very poor, hence why I have not been there in many years. Also, in my experience, attractive and even quite unattractive Scandinavian women simply do not go for my type (1/2 Danish, 1/8 Swedish, mix of German & Scotch-Irish - the later of which comes disproportionately across in my face; height 5'11"). After reading Roosh's (who grew up in DC like me) reports on Scandinavia I am very skeptical that game would help me, a concept that I was ignorant of the last time I went. I'm just not interested in barking up that tree again. Quite simply, I think that I would get a nicer welcome from SW German women.

[Greek kamaki]

German women in Frankfurt look very good.Not Munich or Hamburg quality but still very good.This is a peculiar thing in Germany a lot of appearance is local bedingt for example in Stuttgart the lack of talent is unjustified.

[w00t]

Frankfurt is the crime capital of Germany and in neighbourhoods like Bonames or Nordweststadt I certainly wouldnt wanna walk around alone at night

Theres also a huge drug scene and the area around Hauptbahnhof is full with junkies and crackheads

The talent level is ok for German standards, lots of opportunity for daygame and nightgame

Americans must have it pretty bad if they consider Germany a significant upgrade regarding quality of life

[Akula]

(09-13-2014 01:01 PM)Greek kamaki Wrote:  

Yes,provided you work for international company.Also much more possible in Frankfurt than in Munich or Stuttgart.

Frankfurt is more of the international business and financial capital of Germany but not so desired by Germans to live in. I agree with Kamaki that it would be easiest to find a job for foreigners there. I know several people in the finance/IT sphere that live and work in Frankfurt and don't speak much German. I think this would be the main city where you could do this in Germany.

It's a nice little town, but pretty boring, and nowhere near as beautiful as Munich or many other German towns. When I've been there on business it's sometimes almost feels like it's bizarro Germany as opposed to a 'real' Germany city with lots of character (and less foreigners). It's still a nice enough town, and I liked it ok, but not like the other nicer German towns. I dunno maybe its like the German version of Ohio in the US or something.

Location is decent and you could get around to a lot of interesting places nearby.

[beta_plus]

(09-17-2014 02:25 AM)w00t Wrote:  

Frankfurt is the crime capital of Germany and in neighbourhoods like Bonames or Nordweststadt I certainly wouldnt wanna walk around alone at night

Theres also a huge drug scene and the area around Hauptbahnhof is full with junkies and crackheads

The talent level is ok for German standards, lots of opportunity for daygame and nightgame

Americans must have it pretty bad if they consider Germany a significant upgrade regarding quality of life

"Americans must have it pretty bad if they consider Germany a significant upgrade regarding quality of life" - YEP! Though I would qualify only Americans from certain metro areas.

As for danger, for someone who grew up in DC during the Bad Old Days (late 80s early 90s Crack Wars) and who goes to Baltimore quite a bit, it takes quite a bit to impress me on a city being dangerous - which Frankfurt did not. Right now, unless the city is in the middle of a civil war, the only cities that I think that I would regard as dangerous would be certain Latin American slums or Sub-Saharan West African Cities.

[Cheetah]

(09-17-2014 07:58 PM)beta_plus Wrote:  

(09-17-2014 02:25 AM)w00t Wrote:  

Frankfurt is the crime capital of Germany and in neighbourhoods like Bonames or Nordweststadt I certainly wouldnt wanna walk around alone at night

Theres also a huge drug scene and the area around Hauptbahnhof is full with junkies and crackheads

The talent level is ok for German standards, lots of opportunity for daygame and nightgame

Americans must have it pretty bad if they consider Germany a significant upgrade regarding quality of life

"Americans must have it pretty bad if they consider Germany a significant upgrade regarding quality of life" - YEP! Though I would qualify only Americans from certain metro areas.

As for danger, for someone who grew up in DC during the Bad Old Days (late 80s early 90s Crack Wars) and who goes to Baltimore quite a bit, it takes quite a bit to impress me on a city being dangerous - which Frankfurt did not. Right now, unless the city is in the middle of a civil war, the only cities that I think that I would regard as dangerous would be certain Latin American slums or Sub-Saharan West African Cities.

I'm absolutely not saying that you should disregard Frankfurt due to crime but keep in mind when camparing that it's a big difference if you tend to transport yourself by walking/using public transport as opposed to driving everywhere. If you drive everywhere it obviously needs to be much more sketchy before it starts to have an impact on you.

[Tigre]

You could get a better answer to this question if you asked IT recruitment agencies.

Put your CV out there and ask them if they can place you.

Look at German Switzerland as well as Germany.

[w00t]

(09-17-2014 07:58 PM)beta_plus Wrote:  

(09-17-2014 02:25 AM)w00t Wrote:  

Frankfurt is the crime capital of Germany and in neighbourhoods like Bonames or Nordweststadt I certainly wouldnt wanna walk around alone at night

Theres also a huge drug scene and the area around Hauptbahnhof is full with junkies and crackheads

The talent level is ok for German standards, lots of opportunity for daygame and nightgame

Americans must have it pretty bad if they consider Germany a significant upgrade regarding quality of life

"Americans must have it pretty bad if they consider Germany a significant upgrade regarding quality of life" - YEP! Though I would qualify only Americans from certain metro areas.

As for danger, for someone who grew up in DC during the Bad Old Days (late 80s early 90s Crack Wars) and who goes to Baltimore quite a bit, it takes quite a bit to impress me on a city being dangerous - which Frankfurt did not. Right now, unless the city is in the middle of a civil war, the only cities that I think that I would regard as dangerous would be certain Latin American slums or Sub-Saharan West African Cities.

Ya of course Frankfurt got nothing on major american cites regarding crime.
Its still in Germany and pretty safe.

Just saying though that its the city with the highest crime rate in Germany. I get the impression lots of US guys view Germany through rose-colored glasses and ignore some of the realities.

[Greek kamaki]

German police is serious and proffessional.This is the main reason that keeps thugs away they are afraid.German cities are very safe.Frankfurt is an exception maybe it is too international and there is increased tolerance?Police operating more discreetly?
You smell danger in the air of course not in Athens levels.You will not see whole streets occupied by junkies who shoot heroine out in the open in dozens.

[w00t]

Frankfurt is famous for its redlight district and its all controlled by organized crime groups. The city is also a distribution hub for drugs coming in from the international airport.

Ive seen plenty junkies shooting up around HBF area.
People smoking crack on the trains... that shit happens. Frankfurt has a huge open drug scene. The police cant do much they just chase them around... its called Junkie jogging.

[Sp5]

(09-18-2014 06:05 AM)w00t Wrote:  

Frankfurt is famous for its redlight district and its all controlled by organized crime groups. The city is also a distribution hub for drugs coming in from the international airport.

Ive seen plenty junkies shooting up around HBF area.
People smoking crack on the trains... that shit happens. Frankfurt has a huge open drug scene. The police cant do much they just chase them around... its called Junkie jogging.

Yeah I was there with my kid who was 8 years old at the time. We walked through the underpass from Taunusstrasse to the Hbf and it was a horror show of scary emaciated junkies, including a guy shooting up on the stairs.

I used it as a "see what drugs do to you?" lesson.

[sheesh]

Safety in Frankfurt is the last thing I'd worry about when coming from a big city in the US. Simply avoid the shady areas and you will be fine.

Regarding the people - a colleague of mine studied in Mainz which is right next to Frankfurt and told me the same thing, i.e. he had never experienced Germans being as friendly and warm as in that area....so maybe your impression isn't that far off. Be prepared to meet a lot of foreigners in that area, though, hordes of people with Turkish background.

Lookswise I don't know whether the girls are that hot down there, quality can vary drastically from one region to another in Germany ! My guess though is that where there is money as in Frankfurt, quality shouldn't be that bad.

[beta_plus]

(09-18-2014 12:11 AM)Cheetah Wrote:  

(09-17-2014 07:58 PM)beta_plus Wrote:  

(09-17-2014 02:25 AM)w00t Wrote:  

Frankfurt is the crime capital of Germany and in neighbourhoods like Bonames or Nordweststadt I certainly wouldnt wanna walk around alone at night

Theres also a huge drug scene and the area around Hauptbahnhof is full with junkies and crackheads

The talent level is ok for German standards, lots of opportunity for daygame and nightgame

Americans must have it pretty bad if they consider Germany a significant upgrade regarding quality of life

"Americans must have it pretty bad if they consider Germany a significant upgrade regarding quality of life" - YEP! Though I would qualify only Americans from certain metro areas.

As for danger, for someone who grew up in DC during the Bad Old Days (late 80s early 90s Crack Wars) and who goes to Baltimore quite a bit, it takes quite a bit to impress me on a city being dangerous - which Frankfurt did not. Right now, unless the city is in the middle of a civil war, the only cities that I think that I would regard as dangerous would be certain Latin American slums or Sub-Saharan West African Cities.

I'm absolutely not saying that you should disregard Frankfurt due to crime but keep in mind when camparing that it's a big difference if you tend to transport yourself by walking/using public transport as opposed to driving everywhere. If you drive everywhere it obviously needs to be much more sketchy before it starts to have an impact on you.

I don't and have never owned a car - I live in one of the very few areas of the United States where one can do this. I am very used to walking through bad neighborhoods. Respectfully, I'd pick the Frankfurt Hauptbahnhof station area over West Baltimore, Buffalo Central Terminal, or 30th Street Station in Phili any day of the week. I actually partied for several hours at one of the new bars near Hauptbahnhof. Quite frankly, Germany's criminal underclass doesn't tend to assault and murder people nearly as much as America's.

[Greek kamaki]

Situations can rapidly escalate in Germany.I was present in a shooting outside a club in Berlin the second night I was there.5 police cars arrived in no time but when the bullets get fired you really have no idea where they get.(only where they come from).
In Frankfurt there are some dangerous types but not the constant threat small thieves you see in Athens.However Frankfurt is a lot more dangerous than Munich or Stuttgart there is no comparison.

Regarding working in Germany Germans are used to very bad level of German language so this is not a problem.Many foreigners speak very bad to the level of incompetence.Hopefully the Germans are tolerant.After one year I am quite confident with language but I still make mistakes.However not ones with consequences.
As a general rule if you want to say sth the Germans will understand what you want to say no matter how bad you express it.It is because their minds are working you will almost never encounter brain dead Germans in positions.
Most of them also speak very good English never displaying the common Greek attitude you have to understand me no matter how many mistakes I make.Generally Germans so to say always get the point and are precise.
The differences with us are mainly the tastes the feeling and the discipline.I do not understand how they like the things they like and their reactions sometimes.

[Cheetah]

(09-20-2014 09:44 AM)beta_plus Wrote:  

(09-18-2014 12:11 AM)Cheetah Wrote:  

(09-17-2014 07:58 PM)beta_plus Wrote:  

(09-17-2014 02:25 AM)w00t Wrote:  

Frankfurt is the crime capital of Germany and in neighbourhoods like Bonames or Nordweststadt I certainly wouldnt wanna walk around alone at night

Theres also a huge drug scene and the area around Hauptbahnhof is full with junkies and crackheads

The talent level is ok for German standards, lots of opportunity for daygame and nightgame

Americans must have it pretty bad if they consider Germany a significant upgrade regarding quality of life

"Americans must have it pretty bad if they consider Germany a significant upgrade regarding quality of life" - YEP! Though I would qualify only Americans from certain metro areas.

As for danger, for someone who grew up in DC during the Bad Old Days (late 80s early 90s Crack Wars) and who goes to Baltimore quite a bit, it takes quite a bit to impress me on a city being dangerous - which Frankfurt did not. Right now, unless the city is in the middle of a civil war, the only cities that I think that I would regard as dangerous would be certain Latin American slums or Sub-Saharan West African Cities.

I'm absolutely not saying that you should disregard Frankfurt due to crime but keep in mind when camparing that it's a big difference if you tend to transport yourself by walking/using public transport as opposed to driving everywhere. If you drive everywhere it obviously needs to be much more sketchy before it starts to have an impact on you.

I don't and have never owned a car - I live in one of the very few areas of the United States where one can do this. I am very used to walking through bad neighborhoods. Respectfully, I'd pick the Frankfurt Hauptbahnhof station area over West Baltimore, Buffalo Central Terminal, or 30th Street Station in Phili any day of the week. I actually partied for several hours at one of the new bars near Hauptbahnhof. Quite frankly, Germany's criminal underclass doesn't tend to assault and murder people nearly as much as America's.

Maybe it's good with a shady area so you feel a little at home in Germany.

You seem to have found a city that you really like. Do you think that you can find a good job there?

[beta_plus]

(09-20-2014 11:10 AM)Cheetah Wrote:  

(09-20-2014 09:44 AM)beta_plus Wrote:  

(09-18-2014 12:11 AM)Cheetah Wrote:  

(09-17-2014 07:58 PM)beta_plus Wrote:  

(09-17-2014 02:25 AM)w00t Wrote:  

Frankfurt is the crime capital of Germany and in neighbourhoods like Bonames or Nordweststadt I certainly wouldnt wanna walk around alone at night

Theres also a huge drug scene and the area around Hauptbahnhof is full with junkies and crackheads

The talent level is ok for German standards, lots of opportunity for daygame and nightgame

Americans must have it pretty bad if they consider Germany a significant upgrade regarding quality of life

"Americans must have it pretty bad if they consider Germany a significant upgrade regarding quality of life" - YEP! Though I would qualify only Americans from certain metro areas.

As for danger, for someone who grew up in DC during the Bad Old Days (late 80s early 90s Crack Wars) and who goes to Baltimore quite a bit, it takes quite a bit to impress me on a city being dangerous - which Frankfurt did not. Right now, unless the city is in the middle of a civil war, the only cities that I think that I would regard as dangerous would be certain Latin American slums or Sub-Saharan West African Cities.

I'm absolutely not saying that you should disregard Frankfurt due to crime but keep in mind when camparing that it's a big difference if you tend to transport yourself by walking/using public transport as opposed to driving everywhere. If you drive everywhere it obviously needs to be much more sketchy before it starts to have an impact on you.

I don't and have never owned a car - I live in one of the very few areas of the United States where one can do this. I am very used to walking through bad neighborhoods. Respectfully, I'd pick the Frankfurt Hauptbahnhof station area over West Baltimore, Buffalo Central Terminal, or 30th Street Station in Phili any day of the week. I actually partied for several hours at one of the new bars near Hauptbahnhof. Quite frankly, Germany's criminal underclass doesn't tend to assault and murder people nearly as much as America's.

Maybe it's good with a shady area so you feel a little at home in Germany.

You seem to have found a city that you really like. Do you think that you can find a good job there?

Haha! I remember going to Copenhagen and finally being old enough to explore VesterBro & NorreBro, which are Denmark's equivalent to the Hauptbahnhof neighborhood and finally feeling like I was in a "real" city.

Frankfurt is really tempting. It certainly sounds like from this thread that I am not deluded and would be able to find a job there, such as at the European Central Bank. I'm starting a new position right now in DC, but I have been wanting to study skills that would allow me to work geographically independently. I am definitely going to be aiming at Frankfurt as a good place to start sometime in the next few years. Also, if my geo-independent job fell through, I'd have a back up plan.

[Inspired]

Frankfurt is not dangerous. You'd have to go looking for trouble to find any, and this would be difficult.

[Greek kamaki]

Also Frankfurt is cheaper than Stuttgart.I was surprised by the prices.The people are also not annoying there.
I saw today in Frankfurt girls from school and half of them were immigrants.Many with hijab.Strange things happen.
Also when you see sb behaving unpleasant or causing trouble he is always foreigner.Germans are very tolerant.

[Greek kamaki]

For example in this month I got about 15 job interviews.Germans estimate a lot German experience if you can comply with the procedures etc.It was easy to land a job even in big city.
I also see here some kind of gross incompetence I do not understand how they make so big mistakes.I tell them some ways to skip the rules to get results but they always stick to procedures.
This is the biggest problem in Germany.You try to whip people to get maximum productivity but they always hide behind procedures and protocols.Too much beaurocracy instead of acting.This creates a tension among people it is not a pleasant country.