[BadgerHut]

(09-10-2014 09:30 AM)Dalaran1991 Wrote:  

Guys good news I found a recent help for my sleep patterns! Black Tea!

This whole sleepy thing killing me and my hate for coffee, I decided "fuk coffee Im a tea person" so I started drinking office tea. Just normal blak Earl Grey tea.

First few days, it works better than coffee in keeping me awake for a few hours, but with the added benefit of not feeling like a whore on her period when the effect wears out. But other than that nothing much.

After a whole week of tea, I started feeling more awake, much more, even when not drinking tea. Usually I would wake up from 7 hours and feel like "lord jesus 5 more min" but the last two nights I only get 5 hours and wake up very easily. I also no longer need to nap at office.

Reading up on the stuff research says that black tea has very good oxidization effect and reduce cancer and shit. For me it would make sense since I eat tons of meat and fat. Im lean due to sole virtue of working out a lot, not bc of eschewing meat, so I guess the tea helps purify all that stuff.

Try it out and see if it works for you guys, esp if you dont like coffee.

That's great news.

I would still go get checked out by a doctor - for bloodwork first, then maybe a sleep study to see if you are apneaic or have another sleep disorder. That simple tea fixes it is great, but it'd be better for your long-term health to know WTF is going on.

[BadgerHut]

I once sat in on a class about the science of sleep where they brought in a narcoleptic dog.

[Dalaran1991]

Update on my situation:

Now that I'm working a 9-5, this shit got worse.... way worse. I tried one weekend sleeping 12h each night and on Monday I'm still a sleepy fucktard.

Of course, I think we all know the culprit is working a drone office job and constantly in front of a screen.

Anyway, I've concluded that whether I get a 6h or a 12h sleep doesn't really matter. I'm always sleepy.

I wanted to do the bloodcheck but it's not easy to request that in France, and insurance doesnt completely cover it so it will have to wait.

Has anyone tried segmented sleep? Go to bed a bit earlier, sleep for 4h, wake up for 2h, then go back to sleep again.

I tried it last night since I had a coughing fit and woke up in the middle of the night. Thought I was done for come morning, but I actually feel the most refreshed even though I only got 6h!

Will try this for a week and report in.

[Gyro]

Try bright light therapy; if that doesn't work then it might be a matter of discipline.

Just set your alarm or multiple alarms in the opposite corners of your room; put the volume full blast. Make sure you do everything I your power to sabotage your need to go back to sleep.

Get a hard bed (make sure it's not bad for your back), get rid of pillows..hell sleep on the ground like the Japanese do.

Make sleeping just for regeneration and not recreation.

[yeppels]

Since you work a 9-5, you probably do not spend enough time in the daylight and are probably vitamin D deficient. This is a big problem nowadays. A simple blood test should tell you if you are or not. Mine revealed that I was extremely deficient. I was also feeling similar to what you describe. I definitely noticed an improvement after I started taking daily vitamin D supplements.

Can also confirm the 9-5 loathing. I absolutely abhorred working the corporate lifestyle and it seriously fucked with my psyche and happiness. I work remotely now, which has other challenges, but at least I do not go to sleep every night dreading going into the soulless office the next morning.

[Thomas the Rhymer]

Have you considered being referred for a sleep study? Your symptoms are suggestive of sleep apnoea.

[Dalaran1991]

(04-13-2016 08:58 AM)Thomas the Rhymer Wrote:  

Have you considered being referred for a sleep study? Your symptoms are suggestive of sleep apnoea.

Just google this and you might be right. My girlfriend said that sometimes I scare her because its like I no longer breath during sleep so she thought I was dead

Well at least its not cancer. It seems like it can be treated with just some changes in how you sleep. I hope it doesnt come to surgery.

[thebassist]

I had an annoying case of adrenal fatigue a couple years ago that sounds similar to this.

Adrenal fatigue is caused when you constantly overwork your adrenal glands, which are are responsible for the release of cortisol, aka 'the stress hormone'. It can be caused by prolonged periods of stress (from general lifestyle, including from exercise!), immune system attack (during or after infections or diseases), excessive amounts of caffeine, and some other chemicals that you may be exposed to regularly.

I remember being tired all day, to the extent where I had trouble paying attention in class, and would just want to lie down in my bed all day when I was at home, which was something that no amount of sleep could seem to fix for me. Additionally, I was also putting myself under a lot of stress from school, and drank a lot of coffee at the time, both of which may have conked out my adrenal glands.

If I remember correctly, I managed to solve most of it by making sure to kick back and relax in the holiday that followed the end of the semester, eating well, cutting out all caffeine consumption, and meditating regularly.

[PhDre]

(04-13-2016 09:11 AM)Dalaran1991 Wrote:  

(04-13-2016 08:58 AM)Thomas the Rhymer Wrote:  

Have you considered being referred for a sleep study? Your symptoms are suggestive of sleep apnoea.

Just google this and you might be right. My girlfriend said that sometimes I scare her because its like I no longer breath during sleep so she thought I was dead

Well at least its not cancer. It seems like it can be treated with just some changes in how you sleep. I hope it doesnt come to surgery.

I'm skeptic of the sleep apnea thing.
It's the new hype since nearly everyone who gets tested is diagnosed with it; seems more like a cover up for "we don't know what is wrong with you".

Furthermore I'm highly skeptical of the cpap treatment; it cannot be healthy to have a machine blowing into your mouth or nose for multiple hours every night. Moreover it doesn't address the root cause of the issue, unless you're super heavy/muscular and your throat passage gets squeezed by your body mass when you relax.

Note: I realize Thomas is a doctor and I'm not so you should not simply discard his advice because of my opinion.

Dalaran, at what time do you go to sleep?
How regular is your sleeping schedule?
What are you doing in the hours before you go to bed? Computer? Smartphone?
What do you eat in the evening and how close to bedtime do you eat?
How's the temperature and the ventilation in your bedroom? How dark is it?

[Spider]

You need to get your bloodwork done, thyroid levels checked etc. I can't imagine segmented sleep fixing these issues that you've had for years...

I had bloodwork done a while ago and was low in folate and vitamin b12, as well as vitamin D3. Added a vitamin b complex and vitamin d every morning with breakfast and that's helped my energy levels.

Also did a skin iodine test at home (http://www.globalhealingcenter.com/natur...atch-test/) which showed that I was deficient in Iodine...Iodine is important for your keeping your thyroid working properly and providing you with energy. I've been taking a little under 1mg of Iodine a day and my energy levels have increased and I've felt better.

The last thing I did was started drinking Guayusa tea every morning - was very surprised how much better I felt drinking that stuff vs. coffee or even black tea.

I suffered from low energy and fatigue for years and I'm feeling much better. You can't solve this stuff completely on your own though, you need to see a specialist (doctor) to determine what, if any deficiencies you have.

[Saweeep]

Could you be Vit D deficient?

[Giovonny]

HBMs

"Hours Before Midnight"

This is what is important!

It's not always about how long you sleep!

It's about when you sleep!

The most important time to sleep is between 10pm and 2am.

If we want to maximize our sleep, we must go to bed before midnight!

Going to sleep after midnight minimizes the effectiveness of our sleep!

--

Im sure the OP goes to bed too late.

Try going to bed earlier.

--

(04-13-2016 04:54 AM)Dalaran1991 Wrote:  

I get a 6h or a 12h sleep doesn't really matter.

It doesn't matter because you go to bed too late.

You are getting low quality sleep.

If you want to improve the quality of your sleep, go to sleep earlier.

(04-13-2016 04:54 AM)Dalaran1991 Wrote:  

Will try this for a week

A week is not enough.

It takes the body at least 3 weeks to adjust and notice a real difference.

[Dalaran1991]

@Giovonni + PhDre: I'm not sure if going to bed late is a problem. I usually clock in around midnight, rarely later. My girl is an early bird so whenever she comes over we sleep at 10pm. I noticed no difference in energy levels even on those days when I have sex, fall alseep around 10pm, wake up at 9am, morning sex then up. That routine should get anybody testoterone up and energized for the day but not me, and I'm far from a fat tard.


I do play on the computer for around 1-2h before bed though, and I tend to eat late around 8pm.

But then again, there's no difference on the days when my girl come over, I sleep early and plenty, no smartphone/computer. I still mostly wake up feeling like I could fall asleep again. This was ok when I first starting this thread a few months ago, but these last months it really got worse.

@Crashbangwallop: I highly doubt I'm vitD deficient. At the beginning of this thread as I said I'm a very very active guy and do most stuff outdoor. Even these last weeks with 2extra hours of sun light every day I still feel like shit.

Maybe I really do need to figure out a way to get prescribed for a physical.

[Giovonny]

(04-13-2016 01:39 PM)Dalaran1991 Wrote:  

I usually clock in around midnight

If you go to bed at midnight, you don't reach deep sleep until around 1am.

So, you are already defeated before you get started.

(Again, the most effective sleep time is 10pm to 2am -- Going to bed after 10pm reduces the quality of sleep)

Your problem is obvious, you simply go to bed too late.

You live a very active lifestyle, but, you don't get good sleep.

The solution is simple. But, the hard part is turning off all the lights and actually falling asleep around 10 or 11, not at midnight.

This is a very common problem. Most people don't sleep enough. Or, they think getting 8 hours will save them, it won't. WHEN you sleep can be as important as how MUCH you sleep.

(04-13-2016 01:39 PM)Dalaran1991 Wrote:  

My girl is an early bird so whenever she comes over we sleep at 10pm. I noticed no difference

You noticed no difference because you already have a massive sleep debt AND going to bed earlier once in a while will not fix the issue. Like I said above, you must go to be earlier for 3 straight weeks to really allow your body to catch up and notice a difference.

You don't need any special doctors or medicine or drugs or fancy tricks.. You just need to go to bed earlier.

[Going strong]

Dalaran, friend, when I met you, you seemed to me very high-energy!

Anyway, about the blood-testing in France:

It's easy and should be reimbursed (covered) by all "mutuelles" (health insurances), provided you first go to your general practitioner.

I mean, in France (at least for permanent residents), from my experience and understanding, you need to have a Medical Doctor (generaliste) whom you meet first, and then he dispatches you to a specialist (like, oculist or blood-testing facility). Don't go first on your own to a specialist or blood-testing facility, obtain first a paper (order, prescription) from a generalist doctor (preferably the same MD each time).

This policy was put in place in order to alleviate the pressure on specialized doctors (French had a habit of going to a specialist rather than asking their basic MD from the neighbourhood).

You can still go on your own to see a specialist doctor, but then, times and costs will be higher and your mutuelle could refuse reimbursements. Same goes with blood-tests: first, go see your generalist MD and obtain a signed paper from him stating you need a blood-test (simple procedure: just say you are always sleepy, or are back from BKK and want an AIDS testing, whatever).

Read: http://www.lefigaro.fr/assurance/2013/02...tement.php

and note: "Les patients qui n'ont pas déclaré de médecin traitant et qui consultent l'un de ces spécialistes en accès direct autorisé, ne sont remboursés qu'à hauteur de 30% du tarif de consultation (lui-même diminué de 3€). En général, la mutuelle ne compense pas la différence"

So, you'd also need to declare, name, a particular MD as your "usual, referent MD", in order to get easiest reimbursements. French health service hates it if you switch medical doctors... they want you to stick with the same MD, in order to track your health evolution.

[ScrapperTL]

Definitely try giving up the fapping, no matter how hard (LOL!) it is for you to quit.

My record is 147 days (my last attempt), quitting for life this time (hopefully).

I remember @ about the 100 day mark, all I needed was 5 hours of sleep and I felt completely refreshed for the entire following day.
Jumped out of bed ready to attack the world.

Combined with ice-cold early morning showers, this will put you into full on Predator Beast Mode.

[KevCapitalist]

Tomatoes/potatoes play a heavy part in your diet you said? Both plants in the nightshade family. I had to cut these from my diet to get past sleep paralysis, thI'd family of plant can directly affect your sleep if you're sensitive to it. In my case I substitute sweet potatoes & mustards

Generally I'd start with removing all grain/sugar and replacing the majority of carbs in your diet with fats however try adressing the nightshades first.

[ScrapperTL]

(04-13-2016 03:35 PM)KevCapitalist Wrote:  

Tomatoes/potatoes play a heavy part in your diet you said? Both plants in the nightshade family. I had to cut these from my diet to get past sleep paralysis, thI'd family of plant can directly affect your sleep if you're sensitive to it. In my case I substitute sweet potatoes & mustards

Generally I'd start with removing all grain/sugar and replacing the majority of carbs in your diet with fats however try adressing the nightshades first.

Great post! Carbohydrates knock me out and put me to sleep.
For some reason certain fruits like Pineapple, Watermelon, Grapes, Kiwi, Apples <-- are high carb and wake me up.
Probably the natural Fructose or all of the vitamins/minerals/antioxidants in fruit.
Not 100% sure though.

[Oneeyedjack]

(04-13-2016 04:54 AM)Dalaran1991 Wrote:  

Update on my situation:

Now that I'm working a 9-5, this shit got worse.... way worse. I tried one weekend sleeping 12h each night and on Monday I'm still a sleepy fucktard.

Of course, I think we all know the culprit is working a drone office job and constantly in front of a screen.

Anyway, I've concluded that whether I get a 6h or a 12h sleep doesn't really matter. I'm always sleepy.

I wanted to do the bloodcheck but it's not easy to request that in France, and insurance doesnt completely cover it so it will have to wait.

Has anyone tried segmented sleep? Go to bed a bit earlier, sleep for 4h, wake up for 2h, then go back to sleep again.

I tried it last night since I had a coughing fit and woke up in the middle of the night. Thought I was done for come morning, but I actually feel the most refreshed even though I only got 6h!

Will try this for a week and report in.

Your condition sounds very much like the sleep apnea that I had. With sleep apnea, it does not matter how long you sleep. You will still feel sleepy during the day because apnea prevents you from going into deep sleep.

Although it can be done at your home, I highly recommend going to a clinic for a sleep study. Its just an overnight where they measure your sleep pattern. At the very least you will be able to clearly see if the problem is due to sleep apnea or not.

[AllSupps]

(08-27-2014 08:48 AM)Dalaran1991 Wrote:  

I get 7-8 hours of sleep every day, including a half hour nap even when Im at the office. But no matter what Im always sleepy, and can fall asleep literally any time of the day. It has been happening for over two years but now I think I need to deal with it. Once I slept for 28 hours during college winter break, only waking up tp eat.

For the record, I go out dancing 15h/week and train martial arts another 12-15h/week, and I eat well. Im not sitting on my ass lacking in testoterone. But this sleepiness just kills my energy and makes it harder and harder to focus. Night game is almost impossible for me bc of this

Anyone got any tip for me except going to health pro who will suck my $ dry while saying stupid stuff like going to bed early, dont drink coffee or eat late etc. which I have been doing all the time?

Look into Adrenal Fatique man,

Could start supplementing with magnesium 800mg/day and vit C 2 -4000 mg a day and see if that changes anything for you.

[PhDre]

I'm 100% with Giovonny on this one.
Your body makes nearly all of its growth hormone between 10 pm and 2 am IF you are in a deep sleep at that time.
No deep sleep during that time frame = nearly no GH for the day.

It's as Gio says, 4 hours of deep sleep from 10 to 2 is worth more than whatever amount of hours at other times of the day.

If your neuro-endocrine system is super robust, or if you're a teenager with skyhigh GH levels, you can get away with sleeping at other times.
However, you are hitting the age (25) where most guys notice a massive difference between going to bed early (before 10) and staying up late.

It really is one of the simplest (but not the easiest!) ways to maintain youthful looks and energy levels for far longer than other guys who waste all evening in front of a tv or computer screen.
If you want to work on a side hustle, do it in the morning.
If you want to work out, do it in the morning.
If you need to put in a lot of hours at work, do so by arriving early and not by staying late.
The evening is for unwinding and sleeping.

Scrapper and Kev are also on to something. A carb heavy meal requires insulin release and insulin hampers GH secretion.
Eat protein+fat+vegetables in the evening, a couple of hours before bed time so that your stomach is largely emptied already.

[kiwi12]

Interesting...
I have question. How much body make growth hormone between 10 pm and 2 am? Will it be enough if i go to sleep at 11pm? Or if will go to sleep 9pm my body will make twice as much GH?

[Dalaran1991]

(04-14-2016 04:13 AM)PhDre Wrote:  

It really is one of the simplest (but not the easiest!) ways to maintain youthful looks and energy levels for far longer than other guys who waste all evening in front of a tv or computer screen.

Say no more, this is enough. I'm that kind of narcissist who would rather choke on mud than seeing my youth and handsome visage fading away

The only difficulty is that my commute is 1h one way, else I would have no problem going to bed early. I will simply go to bed at 10 and wake up at 6 and do whatever I need to do in the morning.

Will check my diet. Always thought my diet is cool since I still have abs and lean figure, but maybe there s something more there.

[PhDre]

(04-14-2016 05:16 AM)kiwi12 Wrote:  

Interesting...
I have question. How much body make growth hormone between 10 pm and 2 am? Will it be enough if i go to sleep at 11pm? Or if will go to sleep 9pm my body will make twice as much GH?

It's not mathematics, and every person is a bit different.

The only way to be sure would be going to sleep at 11pm for a couple of weeks, have a GH or IGF-1 blood test done, then sleep in at 9 for a couple of weeks and repeat the test.

That being said: go to bed as early as you can. (Before 9 makes little sense unless you have to get up super early.)
The only reason for staying up late is a social activity.
You can work in the morning.
You can work out in the morning.
TV, video games and mindless internet browsing are a waste of time and health.

[Druber]

(08-27-2014 09:01 AM)kinjutsu Wrote:  

It's mostly likely your diet and activities that are killing your energy.

Go back to square one.

Drink a ton of water.
Cut out all processed foods.
Make every meal from scratch. (As much as your cooking skill allows)
Cut out the dancing. (probably the main culprit)
Add in lifting weights 3x a week.
Don't fap. Fapping kills your energy and motivation.
I might even suggest cutting out girls for 2 weeks. (no fucking or going out to meet girls.)
All these little activities slowly take away your energy reserves over the week so you feel more tired than you actually are.

Also there are other possible issues; dodgy thyroid, low T (or high estrdiol), sleep apnea, lack of vid d/B12, etc.