[zaqan]

If I could say one thing to myself at 16, it would be to go get a job somewhere. A real job. Not a summer camp temp job like I did. When I was 16, the thought barely occurred to me in our infantilized world. Its like another bluepill/redpill thing. I didnt hold a real job, a steady job until I was almost 22, but now I have had one for over two years. Its retail and it sucks, but I am satisfied with the decision to go for it.

I went in a little bitch, and have come out something resembling a man. I started out not having a clue how to steer or use a pallet jack, getting mocked and hazed and treated like trash. I almost quit a half dozen times, but I said "No, Im going to get thru this." And now here I am, being that cynical asshole who hazes the new kids, make them do the dirty work, but also teach them the ropes.

Why should you get a job?
You get money. You wont get money anywhere else. College, for example, costs money (usually). High school is just spending time idling. Money is not an end, which is something most people do not understand. Money is a means. You trade your labor for money, which is like an energy force that you can use to do other things. Maybe you want to buy drugs and alcohol. Maybe you want a certain car. Maybe you want hookers. Maybe you want to go away to a foreign land. Maybe you want to buy a house, or some land in the country. Maybe you want to pursue a hobby. Whatever it is, you need to trade some labor to get it.

You get experience. Many jobs today require experience, especially the better paying ones. A lot of jobs are entry-level and will accept your worthless self and train you to be better, and they often take a huge risk doing so. Take advantage of that. The reason you want to do this now at 16 is because when you are 21 or 22 and have a college degree, you will see that work as beneath you, but the jobs you will want will require experience, often any experience. Even if its not the right field, someone who has 5 years of job experience looks a hell of a lot better than someone with a college degree in the field, but no job experience. If you have the degree and the experience, you are at the top of the pile. Its better to get the drudge work over with when you are 16 than when you are 22.

You stay out of trouble. When you have something to do with your time, such as a job, you dont look for things to do, such as crime. Most people arent criminal minds; they simply end up in bad situations and social psychology forces them to join the herd. If you dont get into those situations, you are not a part of them. On top of that, many employers require you stay drug free and crime free, and will fire you for either. So that is an extra incentive to keep you from making bad decisions, even when you are in bad situation.

You learn how to be social. I had trouble making friends in school and for a long time, I only had two at any given moment. By senior year, I became more social. But now, compared to then? I had been a clam. School is so miserable, you just want to get in and get out. Not to mention you only have a few minutes to run around between classes. Lunch is 25 minutes, maybe 40 if you are lucky. And any talking in class is a one way ticket to the office or detention. At work, you are happier to be there even if it sucks (because money). You can move around, be yourself, you are even encouraged to be a part of the "Team"! Not to mention, most entry-level jobs involve working with the public. If you arent social, youll learn to be, or youll suck and maybe get fired. I started off at the bottom of the barrel, awkward as hell, but now I know everyone, everyone knows me. And I know I have many people who will (probably) back me up when I need something. I know how to socialize, joke around, and be a friend. And all of this ultimately led to getting promoted. I was good at what I do, and I know how to deal with customers, coworkers, and managers.

You have a much better chance with women. Youre at a bar or a party or in a café or a class and someone says "So, what do you do?" If your response is "Well...uhh...um...I...well..." youre in deep trouble, regardless of the gender of who you are talking to. No one likes a loser who sits at home playing Skyrim and eating cheetos. If you dont know what hypergamy is, get on that. Having a job just as a fact already puts you in the top half of your group. Additionally, all the above benefits also give you the tools you need: status and experience.

Dont make the mistake I made of waiting, expecting college to be the magical ticket to any job you want. A debate can be had about the merits of a college degree, but what cannot be debated are the benefits of work experience, regardless of whether you have a degree. You dont even need to have a regular corporate job in a store, a restaurant, or an office. You can start your own business walking dogs, mowing lawns, fixing computers. If you have a skill, use it. If not, you can always scan barcodes, take money, and stock shelves.

I am loath to quote an evil bastard, however "you have nothing to lose but your chains. You have a world to win."

For more information and what inspired this post: College: Not the Be All, End All We’re Led to Believe

[Sonsowey]

I worked as a lifeguard from the time i was legally allowed to work.

Its ok and paid well for a very low stress job, but it didnt teach me how to actually work. During college summers some friends got internships at real companies, unpaid. I worked at a pool, paid. I thought I was winning, sitting poolside getting checks while they put on a suit and got paid squat.

Yet fast forward to college graduation, guess who easily got jobs based on their experience, and who didnt.

[the-dream]

I'm 19 and have been working full time for the past year (at an office job) and I agree, but not for those reasons.

I'd say do it now so you know what it's like and you'll be in a much better position to make your life turn out how you want as opposed to going to college for 4 years to then only experience working and realise that it's not all that great and that you want to do something else (but now don't have time, money, optimism and lower expectations from others/society on your side).

If I had just gone straight to college, I would have done something I didn't care really about and just came to the same conclusion four years down the line.

However, I am missing out on a lot by not going to college - mainly the social side - so I think the ideal would be work full for a year after high school to give yourself a perspective you wouldn't get otherwise (and save money), then go to college.

[Atlantic]

There are a lot of cool jobs at this age that will set you up well for whatever your interests are:

Money won't be huge at this age so ignore it a bit for now and focus on the overlap of business exp, fitness and access to girls.

Game and fitness: Lifegaurd, Water sports Instructor, Camp Leader

Game and business: Coffee shop, Clothing store, book store, resteraunt, Food stalls, Intern in a cool industry (skydiving, rafting, snowboarding resort etc)

Business and Fitness: Forestry, Boats, Oil Patch (18+ or fake age), Construction

Of course there is some overlap of all three and a lot of owners will be happy to let a kid help manage a small tourism business where you can also game. Experience is king, dont worry too much about cash for now and enjoy the access to hot ass.

[zaqan]

(08-02-2014 02:51 PM)the-dream Wrote:  

However, I am missing out on a lot by not going to college - mainly the social side - so I think the ideal would be work full for a year after high school to give yourself a perspective you wouldn't get otherwise (and save money), then go to college.

Work part time while in high school and college. No one is going to ask "How many hours did you work on average during junior year?" They will look at "Walmart, Cashier, 2012-present" or whatever and check that off.

(08-02-2014 02:48 PM)Sonsowey Wrote:  

Yet fast forward to college graduation, guess who easily got jobs based on their experience, and who didnt.

The point is to not sit on your ass and cruise thru high school and college, expecting magic. Get a job, get an internship, get both.

Sheesh, I knew there would be wet blankets, but not that quickly.

[Engineer]

(08-02-2014 03:00 PM)zaqan Wrote:  

(08-02-2014 02:51 PM)the-dream Wrote:  

However, I am missing out on a lot by not going to college - mainly the social side - so I think the ideal would be work full for a year after high school to give yourself a perspective you wouldn't get otherwise (and save money), then go to college.

Work part time while in high school and college. No one is going to ask "How many hours did you work on average during junior year?" They will look at "Walmart, Cashier, 2012-present" or whatever and check that off.

(08-02-2014 02:48 PM)Sonsowey Wrote:  

Yet fast forward to college graduation, guess who easily got jobs based on their experience, and who didnt.

The point is to not sit on your ass and cruise thru high school and college, expecting magic. Get a job, get an internship, get both.

Sheesh, I knew there would be wet blankets, but not that quickly.

He's not disagreeing with you, or being a wet blanket, is my read. His advice was same as yours - make money, but slightly deferred by investing time in an unpaid internship. Makes perfect sense. I had both in high school and college and am trying to help my 17 year old son to do the same. I'll be printing out this post for him, minus this reply.

[Goldmund]

Working as a teenager is key to becoming a well-rounded person.

I started working when I was 12 years old in my uncle's pizza shop. And he's a crazy Italian from NYC...that stressful environment prepared me to deal with anything, and I realized real quick by working in the food industry...people are assholes, especially hungry people.

Other jobs included:

Pizza delivery: That was probably my favorite. Cash tips, get to drive around all the time listening to music or audio books, meet lots of girls, deliver pizza to parties at night and people offer you booze/weed, I was too young and my game wasn't up to par...but I'm sure there could have been some pizza delivery bangs, an awesome job. It was like an adventure.

Pizza maker: This skill is useful and you can use it to get a job all over the world. It's fucking fun...I like to sculpt and paint, working with pizza dough is akin to sculpting, and putting the sauce/toppings on will boost your painting skills. It's fun to impress girls/little kids by spinning and tossing the dough high in the air, bouncing it off your hand a few times and saying "Oi, thats a pizza pie!" Honed artistic abilities and boosted charisma.

Window washer: This was the most annoying job because I had to wake up and jump in the back of a shitty van at 530am. But getting on the scaffold of a 50 story building and squeegee-ing the windows was quite the thrill. Met some crazy motherfuckers doing this job. Taught self-discipline, balls got bigger, and made me realize that I did not want to do hard labor when I was older.

Frog catcher: That's right. I got hooked up with a biologist at a local university who worked with tree frogs. He needed females that were full of eggs to do his experiments. The only way to get them was to go out around midnight in the summertime, get into a swamp (headlamp, waders, bucket, balancing stick), and look for frogs that were paired up. The female was always on the bottom. I got paid by the frog. One night I caught 35. The best was when I was out in the swamp by myself, middle of the night, and focused like a motherfucker...this taught me to be more mindful and appreciate nature.

Mechanic: Worked as an apprentice in an auto mechanic shop. This taught me how to work with my hands and fix my own shit.

Bookstore: I thought this would be awesome and I could just sit around and read books all day, but that wasn't the case. Spent a lot of time stocking shelves and dealing with SUPER annoying customers. God they were the worst.

I did all of these things through my teen years and while at university. The cash was why, but the life experienced gained was much much more valuable.

[Atlantic]

(08-02-2014 02:58 PM)Atlantic Wrote:  

There are a lot of cool jobs at this age that will set you up well for whatever your interests are:

Money won't be huge at this age so ignore it a bit for now and focus on the overlap of business exp, fitness and access to girls.

Game and fitness: Lifegaurd, Water sports Instructor, Camp Leader

Game and business: Coffee shop, Clothing store, book store, resteraunt, Food stalls, Intern in a cool industry (skydiving, rafting, snowboarding resort etc)

Business and Fitness: Forestry, Boats, Oil Patch (18+ or fake age), Construction

Of course there is some overlap of all three and a lot of owners will be happy to let a kid help manage a small tourism business where you can also game. Experience is king, dont worry too much about cash for now and enjoy the access to hot ass.

This post is someone who is for someone who is planning on going to University and wants to work part time/summers. By your third year you should be managing whatever business I mentioned above in the evenings/summers.

All the guys I know from University right now who are killing it had this in common: great summer social jobs (golf club house/private yachts/sailing lessons - me) but were also managing said businesses and getting exposure to that level of thinking. You get the girls but you also get the network and solid reference for when you hit the next level 'ya I managed twenty plus staff at The Pines Golf Club house during the summers to pay my way through Uni...'

You also use that network base to launch ahead of where people your age are typically at. It sounds pretentious but get working at the most effluent place you can. You want exposure to how successfully think, act and carry themselves.

If you are not going to Uni I would recommend the apprentice system. Find the BEST guy/companh in your desired industry and get working doing WHATEVER. Shadow the best guys and work your way up over tbe years. Think movies like American Gangster. Right hand man stuff. This is great for trades and certain styles of Business that dont need a degree - nightclubs, high end boats, artist, tech industry.

A close family member used this and went from cleaning windows to making huge money, international travel, media attention etc.

Depends what way you want to go but either has huge potential for massive hussle while still keeping your game and lifestyle opportunities more than sufficient.

[Hopson]

If you use a pallet jack at your job, it's time to get a new job.

It is a good place to start (I worked delivering appliances during college) but you will never make any real money. Getting a degree will get you office work - easy, much better paying, better hours, more time off, better benefits. I wouldn't recommend college over learning a trade but it is a lot better than working at Home Depot (this sounds like the kind of place you are describing). Seriously, you can work at a place like that for 20yrs and be lucky to make 40-50k, with a degree you should be able to start out around that. Don't waste too much time.

[Switch]

Opportunity cost man. Only if you need the money should you trade time for money between ages 16-18. If you're not hurting and can still get gas and stuff by doing yardwork for neighbors and oddjobs on Fiverr then you shouldn't get a job.

I don't have a job right now at 17 and it's summer. If I had one I wouldn't have traveled this summer, I wouldn't have as much time to read, chill with girls, go to the beach, lift, READ, write, think, work on my own ideas, network, play sports, READ.

Seriously my friends are working jobs at minimum wage and by the end of the summer they're going to have 2 grand saved up, but they won't have lived their summer. The way I look at it is that after I graduate from college, I'll be making 2 grand in a couple of weeks. I'll get internships during college, but being a cashier at minimum wage doesn't seem like a good use of time.

[pitt]

(08-02-2014 04:52 PM)Switch Wrote:  

Opportunity cost man. Only if you need the money should you trade time for money between ages 16-18. If you're not hurting and can still get gas and stuff by doing yardwork for neighbors and oddjobs on Fiverr then you shouldn't get a job.

I don't have a job right now at 17 and it's summer. If I had one I wouldn't have traveled this summer, I wouldn't have as much time to read, chill with girls, go to the beach, lift, READ, write, think, work on my own ideas, network, play sports, READ.

Seriously my friends are working jobs at minimum wage and by the end of the summer they're going to have 2 grand saved up, but they won't have lived their summer. The way I look at it is that after I graduate from college, I'll be making 2 grand in a couple of weeks. I'll get internships during college, but being a cashier at minimum wage doesn't seem like a good use of time.

I completely agree. Do not get job at this age, unless it is an oil job where you are getting paid more than 75k per year. I met this canadian cat at this oil company and he is been working on it since he was 16, he was 26 at the time and he has not made anything less than 100k per year for all these 10 years. Now that's the only time I would get a job.

Otherwise, do not get a job, it is one of the worst activities to waste your life.

Travel, approach girls, learn skill sets that will give you money in the long run, get an engineering degree, start running businesses and say no to a job unless it is an oil job.

If I go back to work again, I would only work in the oil field.

[The Beast1]

If you're in college, get a job working with the IT department even if you can't handle computers. You'll get exposed to how an enterprise IT environment works and gain the "knows how to fix computers" plus for a resume.


That was my situation all throw school. I got lucky i had a part time job. Effectively i went to college for an IT apprenticeship.

[game_ethic]

I agree.

When I was 17 I got a summer job through a program my school offered. A lot of kids didn't sign up for the program because they wanted to enjoy their summer but I saw it as an opportunity to get extra cash. In retrospect, I'm happy I made that decision because it was life changing. I networked with a lot of people, many of whom I'm still friends with today, and that's how I met my mentor—the guy who hired me. My hours were only 8 AM to 2 PM, but sometimes I'd do more for the fun of it. I still had time to indulge in activities that I enjoyed(e.g., reading, hanging out with friends, smoking pot, etc) and it was around that time that a fellow co-worker introduced me to the Mystery Method, where I shortly after found out about Bang.

I say just do it for the experience. You'll be miles ahead of other guys who apply for jobs.

[Enjoythedecline]

I was doing a WORTHLESS degree in liberal arts (LOL). I dropped out of college because if I continued, I would be drowning in 50K debt. Best decision ever. I'm now looking to go into the trades field (electricity or plumbing).

[berserk]

(08-02-2014 04:52 PM)Switch Wrote:  

Opportunity cost man. Only if you need the money should you trade time for money between ages 16-18. If you're not hurting and can still get gas and stuff by doing yardwork for neighbors and oddjobs on Fiverr then you shouldn't get a job.

I don't have a job right now at 17 and it's summer. If I had one I wouldn't have traveled this summer, I wouldn't have as much time to read, chill with girls, go to the beach, lift, READ, write, think, work on my own ideas, network, play sports, READ.

Seriously my friends are working jobs at minimum wage and by the end of the summer they're going to have 2 grand saved up, but they won't have lived their summer. The way I look at it is that after I graduate from college, I'll be making 2 grand in a couple of weeks. I'll get internships during college, but being a cashier at minimum wage doesn't seem like a good use of time.

Your friends will have learned a lesson about working hard and making things happen on their own. Then again, maybe you have rich parents who can pay your way into adult age. For the rest, acquiring a good work ethic doing crap jobs will only pay back when you're competing with kids who have no clue what it means to actually do work.

[Lucky]

Both first jobs sucked, but it was my first taste of making money which I liked. Working at that age is a great experience. Learning about how to deal with bosses, co-workers, customers, etc. The social skills gained were a big plus for me.

[TheKantian]

(08-02-2014 02:48 PM)Sonsowey Wrote:  

I worked as a lifeguard from the time i was legally allowed to work.

Its ok and paid well for a very low stress job, but it didnt teach me how to actually work. During college summers some friends got internships at real companies, unpaid. I worked at a pool, paid. I thought I was winning, sitting poolside getting checks while they put on a suit and got paid squat.

Yet fast forward to college graduation, guess who easily got jobs based on their experience, and who didnt.

It depends really. If you look at the data and surveys, the people that were in paid internships benefited the most. Whereas unpaid vs no internship had similar rates of employment.

As for the OP, one thing I wished would have happened to me when I started working around 15-16 is that someone would have told me to open an IRA and put money in that. Shit, if someone told me that, I would have had close to 10k in my IRA by 18.

(08-02-2014 05:03 PM)pitt Wrote:  

I completely agree. Do not get job at this age, unless it is an oil job where you are getting paid more than 75k per year. I met this canadian cat at this oil company and he is been working on it since he was 16, he was 26 at the time and he has not made anything less than 100k per year for all these 10 years. Now that's the only time I would get a job.

Otherwise, do not get a job, it is one of the worst activities to waste your life.

Travel, approach girls, learn skill sets that will give you money in the long run, get an engineering degree, start running businesses and say no to a job unless it is an oil job.

If I go back to work again, I would only work in the oil field.

I think this is stupid advice. Most teenagers would be working part time 16 to 20 hours most likely. That leaves plenty of time to do other stuff, especially during the summer.

I agree with learning skills or even just knowledge in general.

[Redwood]

Great thread. But it has been reported numerous times that going to college and getting a degree is a one-way ticket to getting a job. Just like vaginas, the value of a degree has been steadily declining year after year.

However, I do find that day by day, week after week, I feel like a new person, slowly building up confidence in my abilities to eventually land another job whenever that time will come.

So, yeah, basically, internalizing the positives of having a job will do wonders for your inner game.

[puckerman]

(08-02-2014 02:48 PM)Sonsowey Wrote:  

I worked as a lifeguard from the time i was legally allowed to work.

Its ok and paid well for a very low stress job, but it didnt teach me how to actually work. During college summers some friends got internships at real companies, unpaid. I worked at a pool, paid. I thought I was winning, sitting poolside getting checks while they put on a suit and got paid squat.

Yet fast forward to college graduation, guess who easily got jobs based on their experience, and who didnt.

Did you use the job to get pussy? I certainly hope so.

[buja]

Great advice. Wish I'd skipped college and took this advice.

Why get a degree in "business"? You learn about business from people who don't even work in a business, couldn't make it in business, and have less business skill than a Wal-Mart supervisor.

Working your way up to assistant manager at McDonald's will teach you more about business than an MBA.

[Cyr]

(08-02-2014 04:52 PM)Switch Wrote:  

Opportunity cost man. Only if you need the money should you trade time for money between ages 16-18. If you're not hurting and can still get gas and stuff by doing yardwork for neighbors and oddjobs on Fiverr then you shouldn't get a job.

I don't have a job right now at 17 and it's summer. If I had one I wouldn't have traveled this summer, I wouldn't have as much time to read, chill with girls, go to the beach, lift, READ, write, think, work on my own ideas, network, play sports, READ.

Seriously my friends are working jobs at minimum wage and by the end of the summer they're going to have 2 grand saved up, but they won't have lived their summer. The way I look at it is that after I graduate from college, I'll be making 2 grand in a couple of weeks. I'll get internships during college, but being a cashier at minimum wage doesn't seem like a good use of time.

I agree with this. I have friends who are working this summer (17 and 18 year olds who are working the last summer of high school). When we go out, they cant, because they have work the next day. When we go to the beach they have to work. They dont have time to read (something Ive been doing a ton of this summer), or travel (something I still want to do over the next month).

Basically, I feel as though at this age, youre time is better spent investing in yourself and having fun than working for someone else. Reading a lot when youre 17 will make you a much more intelligent man and increase your chance of going to a better/ more prestigious university where you get more bang for your buck (particularly in the Uk where tuition fees are capped and studying at Cambridge costs about the same as the University of Lincolnshire). Also you can accrue fun and memorable experiences without having to worry about waling up early, not being hungover etc..

[jamaicabound]

I definatley agree with this sentiment. I always had jobs when I was younger and it was nice having a bit of savings so I could have fun in college vs always being broke like so many other kids. Also I think its good for work ethic. I had a buddy getting an allowance of a few hundred bucks a week all through college. He got out of college and was entering the corporate world having never worked a job in his life. I know its hard to do when your young but evne buying a bit of stock or something you'd be surprised how much that can grow by teh time your in your mid twenties.

[Onto]

If you get a decent job working for a financially sound city (NYC) or State, then you can work for 20 years and retire with a pension, isn't that right? Imagine retiring at 38 with 50% pay for life or whatever it is. Then you can expat or stay and get another job.

That makes working right away over college a very compelling option.

Another good job would be as a physical therapist. Requires college but you can take that profession anywhere in the world I think and they can't outsource it.

[Mentavious]

How is a man suppose to learn how to save money/balance his check book/in general just handle his funds if he doesn't have a job?



Also, time management skills are learned when you work. I had school, worked, played sports year round, studied, hung out with friends, read books, helped out around the house, etc.

No one saying you have to work 40 hours a week during the entire summer.

Then again maybe some of your parents were millionaires so that might no apply to us middle class folk.

I totally forgot that I received 850 a semester from my work.

[Matador]

There are other choices for the average teenager, such as vocational highschools where students learn a practical trade to get a real job. In some countries this type of education is compulsory.

As for college, the best possible scenario in Anglosphere countries could be homeschooling and a highschool certification at an early age, then a student loan and study overseas. Then return home (or not), fresh, with little debt (if any), and more lays than you would get back home.

I tried a bit of everything but I have no bachelor degree. I did acquired a lot of experience in 2 different specializations. Next, I will get a masters degree (without bachelor) because it will expedite things (experience and income growth). In Europe is very common for universities to accept a student without degree if you have more knowledge and experience than an undergraduate. This can be achieved in almost any field by just working and doing further research on your own, the only exception I can think of is medical sciences.