[Simeon_Strangelight]

(07-31-2014 11:46 PM)Ziltoid Wrote:  

1: Don't insult members that have been around longer than you.

2: 'Weather modification' (AKA: cloud seeding) has been around since the turn of the 20th century. Is that the big conspiracy then; the government is trying to make it rain over major US cities? Compelling shit, I'll start fashioning my tinfoil umbrella.

Let me clarify something - I meant no insult.

Difference of opinion is valid. And I respect that, since people base their viewpoints on their own experiences, their knowledge and as much reason as they can.

Maybe a comparison with Game was too extreme, because that is something that anyone meets in his daily life. Though most guys refuse to acknowledge it for some reason.

That kind of modification goes way beyond cloud seeding by the way. There were reports about being able to produce multiple tornadoes and directing them as well as creating earthquakes. But hey - it is useless to discuss anyway, since you would have to take a hard look into all the info out there. You can trust me that my perception is based not on a frail tin-foil-hat-youtube-video created by some dim-witted Ron-Paul-goldbug. But a greater discussion would be quite extensive. Still interesting to see how RVF members stand on the issue.

I cannot really blame people for making assessments based on their current knowledge and experience. Their opinion or perception - just as mine - can change if we meet new data that sheds a different light on the issue. I personally am willing to question anything and even concede an error on my part. No ego there.

Since this is part of a more complicated matter it would take a weekend or week spent over some good scotch to get a good overview of how I came to my conclusions. Maybe on the future Manosphere island in the Pacific Drinks on me.

[Cr33pin]

Start the video at 1:21.... or you can watch the whole thing

[Youngback]

A Surprising amount of men here seemingly eager to jump militantly to the defense of our benevolent overlords. Why is there so much defensiveness from some of you guys?

I'm not saying I have any expertise on this, but I was skeptical when I first read about this stuff. I didn't believe it and assumed it was more whackjob disinformation. Then I started watching the skies.

I live in the south. Jets fly in a grid pattern, leaving trails that behave NOTHING like water vapor. If it's really explained away simply as condensation, why does it behave nothing like it? Why do I see several days of jet patterns and then see warnings on weather.com of upcoming thunderstorms in my area? Is there really no connection? After months of paying attention to this, I can't believe there is no significance. The lightning storms we have been getting are unlike anything I've ever seen. There is bizarre, unnatural hazy sky coverage after these trails. The trails themselves take hours and hours to dissipate.

I hope you skeptics are correct, and there are great points made by you guys that make me question it myself, but after watching the skies I have serious concerns. There's something fishy about seeing a grid of hazy trails left over us by our airforce.

[speakeasy]

(08-01-2014 10:34 AM)Youngback Wrote:  

A Surprising amount of men here seemingly eager to jump militantly to the defense of our benevolent overlords. Why is there so much defensiveness from some of you guys?

I'm not saying I have any expertise on this, but I was skeptical when I first read about this stuff. I didn't believe it and assumed it was more whackjob disinformation. Then I started watching the skies.

I live in the south. Jets fly in a grid pattern, leaving trails that behave NOTHING like water vapor.

I live in the south as well and see absolutely nothing out of the ordinary in our skies. And how exactly do you know what water vapor behaves like at 35,000 feet? Are you a meteorologist?

Quote:

If it's really explained away simply as condensation, why does it behave nothing like it?

What does this mean? I've been seeing jet contrails in the sky since I was a kid. I don't see them behaving any differently now than they ever have. Why is it so hard for people to believe that this is confirmation bias and merely a figment of their imagination?

Quote:

Why do I see several days of jet patterns and then see warnings on weather.com of upcoming thunderstorms in my area?

This is the south, it's hot and humid, there are thunderstorms damn near every afternoon in the summer. What exactly is the troubling pattern you're seeing here? I don't see it. Are you implying that they need to create rain? This isn't a drought region of the country, water is abundant around here. Why wouldn't they be doing it in California or other dry states if that was the result? Think about it, if they could effectively modify the weather, there wouldn't be a drought in California costing the nation billions in lost agriculture. There wouldn't be reservoirs drying up that feed major cities like Los Angeles.

Quote:

Is there really no connection? After months of paying attention to this, I can't believe there is no significance. The lightning storms we have been getting are unlike anything I've ever seen. There is bizarre, unnatural hazy sky coverage after these trails. The trails themselves take hours and hours to dissipate.

Tell you what, why don't you get a camera and film the sky the next time you see one of these trails that take "hours and hours" to dissipate and we'll see if this what you think it is.

[TigerMandingo]

This shit sounds even dumber than the 9/11 Truth thing.

[Sombro]

[Youngback]

When I was a kid, I asked my dad one time why those little trails followed behind the jets. He explained the concept of condensation an all that and I thought nothing of it. I remember I would watch the jets and see which jets trail lasted the longest. Within seconds you could see the start of the trail dissipate and disappear. There was no cohesiveness to their pattern, I would see one going at a sharp angle upwards, another flying horizontally to my perspective, another flying downwards.

The patterns I currently observe are grid-like. I have mentioned this aspect to several friends and they agree, there is a lattice-like structure to the flight patterns. I cannot refute simple observations. The trails have lasted hours. There is not so much a dissipation of the trail but more a smearing, the vapor hangs in the air and spreads out with the wind.

I am not a meteorologist but if you are I would appreciate some pertinent information rather than sarcastic personal jabs. All I know is what I observe. How do you know they're flying at 35k feet? There is no argument here, it is simply my observations of the sharp contrast between what I have known to be contrails and what I have seen lately in the sky. The trails left now do not behave as ANY contrails I have ever seen. This could be explained away simply as a difference in altitude, but the difference in the trail is there, regardless.

Alright I'll take some pictures for you and show you what I mean if I can remember to.

So let's assume, speakeasy, you are correct and these are contrails. Have you not noticed them hanging around longer than usual? Do you see any patterns in the way these are laid down? I know for certain I've seen this stuff, I don't even claim them to be "chemtrails" I am simply stating that my observations have lead me to believe there is a difference in what I saw as a kid and what I'm seeing lately.

I don't understand the belligerence. I only said what I observed and made no real claims as to them being "chemtrails." Maybe you and I just haven't seen the same thing? We could be looking at entirely different things. I'll take a picture next time I see them.

[Glaucon]

Rationally why would any airline sacrifice tonnage and space for the chemtrail tanks and equipment? Are they compensated by the government? How does no maintenance crew-member never talked about it?

To me, chemtrails are in the same category as UFO's: the vivid imagination of the human mind. Think about in the past on Mars they thought they see industrial canals made by aliens. We sent robots there and what we have found? Big nothing, rocks and nothing else.

[speakeasy]

(08-01-2014 11:15 AM)Glaucon Wrote:  

Rationally why would any airline sacrifice tonnage and space for the chemtrail tanks and equipment? Are they compensated by the government? How does no maintenance crew-member never talked about it?

To me, chemtrails are in the same category as UFO's: the vivid imagination of the human mind. Think about in the past on Mars they thought they see industrial canals made by aliens. We sent robots there and what we have found? Big nothing, rocks and nothing else.

Haha, now I disagree. I definitely believe in UFOs. Don't put these stupid chemtrails in the same category as UFOs.

[AntiTrace]

(08-01-2014 11:00 AM)Youngback Wrote:  

When I was a kid, I asked my dad one time why those little trails followed behind the jets. He explained the concept of condensation an all that and I thought nothing of it.

The patterns I currently observe are grid-like. I have mentioned this aspect to several friends and they agree, there is a lattice-like structure to the flight patterns.

Snipped your post a bit just to illustrate this observation that I can possibly explain.

First off, just ask yourself how old you are.

Go back in time X amount of years to when you were a kid.

Go back that same x amount of time in aviation history.

I'm not trying to be condescending, but the national airspace traffic flow has changed IMMENSELY in that time. New developments in radar, gps, collision avoidance systems have made it possible that aircraft can be safely controlled within very close proximity, even at altitude. Combine that with that airlines industry push for more efficient (aka, more direct) routing and you come up with consistent traffic over several key routes.

Like any other form of traffic, the closer you get to a populated area the more congested it gets. You wont see the "lattice" pattern over West Bumfuck, South Dakota because there may only be one route over there. However when you get to more populated cities where flights are arriving and departing from all cardinal directions, your going to develop more of a grid like pattern.

If your really curious you can goto http://skyvector.com/. In the map the loads up there are multiple buttons at the top right side, starting with World Hi and continuing with whatever charts are available for that area of the world you are viewing.

Also keep in mind that aircraft need to be test flown by qualified maintenance test pilots to diagnose a problem a line pilot has identified, or to sign off a repair conducted by ground maintenance. These flights involve pilots attention being focused primarily inside the aircraft and sometimes require maneuvering the aircraft in a manner that is unusual for normal flight.

Because of this, there are always "Test Flight Areas" near major airports or anywhere else they may conduct maintenance on an aircraft. These are usually just an pre-determined area by the company/companies and are not charted on maps. Air Traffic Control is aware of these areas.

So you may see aircraft doing unusual maneuvers in a certain part of the sky, much like KGalt has report seeing. It is very possible that those are just maintenance test flights flying from one corner of the test flight box to the other, turning around and do it again, over and over again until the required maintenance check is completed.

[AntiTrace]

On a side note, I saw a video a bit back claiming to be evidence of chemtrail spraying. The video pictured a 747 with all passenger seats removed and replaced with large water tanks with pumps and piping linking them together.

Videos like this are powerful weapons in the hands of someone trying to sell their point of the story. It is obvious the airplane is full of some type of fluid being held in large tanks. It's too easy for Mr. Tinfoil Hat to tell you that it is the smoking gun proving his point.

That video actually shows a water displacement test. In those tests water is pumped from one container to another back and forth all around the airplane. THe purpose is to test flight characteristics with a constantly shifting center of gravity. There is nothing sinister about it. All aircraft, from tiny little cessnas to the space shuttle have their "Weight and Balance" tested.

[Engineer]

There's a lot of weird stuff that can happen in the atmosphere naturally, when a huge aircraft moves through it at high speed. There is the jet exhaust, vortices generated at the wingtip, local supersonic shock despite overall velocity being subsonic, etc. There is water vapor, water droplets, ice crystals, and natural dust in the atmosphere. Then add the altitude/depth perception issues people have with aircraft and lighting conditions from different sun angles. I'm not surprised we don't see even more weird stuff than grids of contrails.

A few years back I read in a local Alaskan paper that passengers on a puddle jumper swore they saw a pterodactyl (as in the flying dinosaur). Turns out it was a Stellar's Sea Eagle that had been blown over from Siberia. Because of their altitudes and relative speeds, people were convinced this thing was gigantic. The aircraft was flying slow, the bird was much closer than they thought, etc etc.

I just thought of something that could easily cause a grid pattern - military test flights over a range. The aircraft is checking the boxes in the test flight plan, but because the range is limited in size it eventually needs to turn around. Repeat a few times, and if the winds at altitude are at a right angle to the flight path then you've got rows of contrails. Same thing in the other direction then there's columns.

Another reason why you'd want to fly in a grid is to test a mapping LIDAR, like the one a few years ago that found a Mayan city lost in the jungle. That's from a lower altitude, but of course you'd want to fly a mapping drone higher in hostile territory. Test that from Nellis and you've got an explanation for the OP's Las Vegas observations.

Occam's razor, as someone said above. Is there a massive conspiracy to change the weather or control the population somehow? Globally? Yeah, I doubt it.

[AntiTrace]

(07-31-2014 07:46 PM)K Galt Wrote:  

One last response to address this picture.

Someone may see this as a grid like pattern consistent with chemtrail theory.

Heres what I see:

-Two predominant trails in the foreground, tracing from the top right and downwards at a 45* angle to the middle. These would be landing aircraft, or at least it appears that way because the trails are lower than the others in the background. It appears the landing aircraft follow very similar paths that terminate very close together. This is consistent with an airport conducting approaches to parallel runways.



Above is an airport diagram used by pilots for McCarron International. You will notice the parallel runways. These are like a second lane on a highway, you can handle more traffic in the same direction.

-The two in the middle background of the frame moving right the left. You can tell the direction of travel based off the dissipation of the contrails in the right side of the image. They are higher in altitude, both moving in the same direction, and are relatively close to each other. These look consistent with aircraft traveling on establish airways.





Yesterday I swore up and down I saw a tornado forming. My meteorologist friend told me it was a normal cloud formation and there was nothing to worry about. It turning out to be a completely normal cloud formation and there was nothing to worry about....crazy huh?

[Texas_Tryhard]

Contrails from World War II. I guess those pilots were all in on it too, and that we had that sort of technology all the way back then, huh?

[NovaVirtu]

I'm not convinced that there is some malevolent plot here, but I think the larger point to take away from this discussion is that a lot of people believe- correctly- that our government is malevolent enough to do something like this.

It's not surprising really, when you look at the history of things like the Tuskegee Syphilis Study, CIA LSD experiments, etc

Quote:

A History Of US Secret
Human Experimentation
3-25-3

1931 Dr. Cornelius Rhoads, under the auspices of the Rockefeller Institute for Medical Investigations, infects human subjects with cancer cells. He later goes on to establish the U.S. Army Biological Warfare facilities in Maryland, Utah, and Panama, and is named to the U.S. Atomic Energy Commission. While there, he begins a series of radiation exposure experiments on American soldiers and civilian hospital patients.

1932 The Tuskegee Syphilis Study begins. 200 black men diagnosed with syphilis are never told of their illness, are denied treatment, and instead are used as human guinea pigs in order to follow the progression and symptoms of the disease. They all subsequently die from syphilis, their families never told that they could have been treated.

1935 The Pellagra Incident. After millions of individuals die from Pellagra over a span of two decades, the U.S. Public Health Service finally acts to stem the disease. The director of the agency admits it had known for at least 20 years that Pellagra is caused by a niacin deficiency but failed to act since most of the deaths occured within poverty-striken black populations.

1940 Four hundred prisoners in Chicago are infected with Malaria in order to study the effects of new and experimental drugs to
combat the disease. Nazi doctors later on trial at Nuremberg cite this American study to defend their own actions during the Holocaust.

1942 Chemical Warfare Services begins mustard gas experiments on approximately 4,000 servicemen. The experiments continue until 1945 and made use of Seventh Day Adventists who chose to become human guinea pigs rather than serve on active duty.

1943 In response to Japan's full-scale germ warfare program, the U.S. begins research on biological weapons at Fort Detrick, MD.

1944 U.S. Navy uses human subjects to test gas masks and clothing. Individuals were locked in a gas chamber and exposed to mustard gas and lewisite.

1945 Project Paperclip is initiated. The U.S. State Department, Army intelligence, and the CIA recruit Nazi scientists and offer them immunity and secret identities in exchange for work on top secret government projects in the United States.

1945 "Program F" is implemented by the U.S. Atomic Energy Commission (AEC). This is the most extensive U.S. study of the health effects of fluoride, which was the key chemical component in atomic bomb production. One of the most toxic chemicals known to man, fluoride, it is found, causes marked adverse effects to the central nervous system but much of the information is squelched in the name of national security because of fear that lawsuits would undermine full-scale production of atomic bombs.

1946 Patients in VA hospitals are used as guinea pigs for medical experiments. In order to allay suspicions, the order is given to change the word "experiments" to "investigations" or "observations" whenever reporting a medical study performed in one of the nation's veteran's hospitals.

1947 Colonel E.E. Kirkpatrick of the U.S. Atomic Energy Comission issues a secret document (Document 07075001, January 8, 1947) stating that the agency will begin administering intravenous doses of radioactive substances to human subjects.

1947 The CIA begins its study of LSD as a potential weapon for use by American intelligence. Human subjects (both civilian and military) are used with and without their knowledge.

1950 Department of Defense begins plans to detonate nuclear weapons in desert areas and monitor downwind residents for medical problems and mortality rates.

1950 I n an experiment to determine how susceptible an American city would be to biological attack, the U.S. Navy sprays a cloud of bacteria from ships over San Franciso. Monitoring devices are situated throughout the city in order to test the extent of infection. Many residents become ill with pneumonia-like symptoms.

1951 Department of Defense begins open air tests using disease-producing bacteria and viruses. Tests last through 1969 and there is concern that people in the surrounding areas have been exposed.

1953 U.S. military releases clouds of zinc cadmium sulfide gas over Winnipeg, St. Louis, Minneapolis, Fort Wayne, the Monocacy River Valley in Maryland, and Leesburg, Virginia. Their intent is to determine how efficiently they could disperse chemical agents.

1953 Joint Army-Navy-CIA experiments are conducted in which tens of thousands of people in New York and San Francisco are exposed to the airborne germs Serratia marcescens and Bacillus glogigii.

1953 CIA initiates Project MKULTRA. This is an eleven year research program designed to produce and test drugs and biological agents that would be used for mind control and behavior modification. Six of the subprojects involved testing the agents on unwitting human beings.

1955 The CIA, in an experiment to test its ability to infect human populations with biological agents, releases a bacteria withdrawn from the Army's biological warfare arsenal over Tampa Bay, Fl.

1955 Army Chemical Corps continues LSD research, studying its potential use as a chemical incapacitating agent. More than 1,000 Americans participate in the tests, which continue until 1958.

1956 U.S. military releases mosquitoes infected with Yellow Fever over Savannah, Ga and Avon Park, Fl. Following each test, Army agents posing as public health officials test victims for effects.

1958 LSD is tested on 95 volunteers at the Army's Chemical Warfare Laboratories for its effect on intelligence.

1960 The Army Assistant Chief-of-Staff for Intelligence (ACSI) authorizes field testing of LSD in Europe and the Far East. Testing of the european population is code named Project THIRD CHANCE; testing of the Asian population is code named Project DERBY HAT.

1965 Project CIA and Department of Defense begin Project MKSEARCH, a program to develop a capability to manipulate human behavior through the use of mind-altering drugs.

1965 Prisoners at the Holmesburg State Prison in Philadelphia are subjected to dioxin, the highly toxic chemical component of Agent Orange used in Viet Nam. The men are later studied for development of cancer, which indicates that Agent Orange had been a suspected carcinogen all along.

1966 CIA initiates Project MKOFTEN, a program to test the toxicological effects of certain drugs on humans and animals.

1966 U.S. Army dispenses Bacillus subtilis variant niger throughout the New York City subway system. More than a million civilians are exposed when army scientists drop lightbulbs filled with the bacteria onto ventilation grates.

1967 CIA and Department of Defense implement Project MKNAOMI, successor to MKULTRA and designed to maintain, stockpile and test biological and chemical weapons.

1968 CIA experiments with the possibility of poisoning drinking water by injecting chemicals into the water supply of the FDA in Washington, D.C.

1969 Dr. Robert MacMahan of the Department of Defense requests from congress $10 million to develop, within 5 to 10 years, a synthetic biological agent to which no natural immunity exists.

1970 Funding for the synthetic biological agent is obtained under H.R. 15090. The project, under the supervision of the CIA, is carried out by the Special Operations Division at Fort Detrick, the army's top secret biological weapons facility. Speculation is raised that molecular biology techniques are used to produce AIDS-like retroviruses.

1970 United States intensifies its development of "ethnic weapons" (Military Review, Nov., 1970), designed to selectively target and eliminate specific ethnic groups who are susceptible due to genetic differences and variations in DNA.

1975 The virus section of Fort Detrick's Center for Biological Warfare Research is renamed the Fredrick Cancer Research Facilities and placed under the supervision of the National Cancer Institute (NCI) . It is here that a special virus cancer program is initiated by the U.S. Navy, purportedly to develop cancer-causing viruses. It is also here that retrovirologists isolate a virus to which no immunity exists. It is later named HTLV (Human T-cell Leukemia Virus).

1977 Senate hearings on Health and Scientific Research confirm that 239 populated areas had been contaminated with biological agents between 1949 and 1969. Some of the areas included San Francisco, Washington, D.C., Key West, Panama City, Minneapolis, and St. Louis.

1978 Experimental Hepatitis B vaccine trials, conducted by the CDC, begin in New York, Los Angeles and San Francisco. Ads for research subjects specifically ask for promiscuous homosexual men.

1981 First cases of AIDS are confirmed in homosexual men in New York, Los Angeles and San Francisco, triggering speculation that AIDS may have been introduced via the Hepatitis B vaccine

1985 According to the journal Science (227:173-177), HTLV and VISNA, a fatal sheep virus, are very similar, indicating a close taxonomic and evolutionary relationship.

1986 According to the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences (83:4007-4011), HIV and VISNA are highly similar and share all structural elements, except for a small segment which is nearly identical to HTLV. This leads to speculation that HTLV and VISNA may have been linked to produce a new retrovirus to which no natural immunity exists.

1986 A report to Congress reveals that the U.S. Government's current generation of biological agents includes: modified viruses, naturally occurring toxins, and agents that are altered through genetic engineering to change immunological character and prevent treatment by all existing vaccines.

1987 Department of Defense admits that, despite a treaty banning research and development of biological agents, it continues to operate research facilities at 127 facilities and universities around the nation.

1990 More than 1500 six-month old black and hispanic babies in Los Angeles are given an "experimental" measles vaccine that had never been licensed for use in the United States. CDC later admits that parents were never informed that the vaccine being injected to their children was experimental.

1994 With a technique called "gene tracking," Dr. Garth Nicolson at the MD Anderson Cancer Center in Houston, TX discovers that many returning Desert Storm veterans are infected with an altered strain of Mycoplasma incognitus, a microbe commonly used in the production of biological weapons. Incorporated into its molecular structure is 40 percent of the HIV protein coat, indicating that it had been man-made.

1994 Senator John D. Rockefeller issues a report revealing that for at least 50 years the Department of Defense has used hundreds of thousands of military personnel in human experiments and for intentional exposure to dangerous substances. Materials included mustard and nerve gas, ionizing radiation, psychochemicals, hallucinogens, and drugs used during the Gulf War .

1995 U.S. Government admits that it had offered Japanese war criminals and scientists who had performed human medical experiments salaries and immunity from prosecution in exchange for data on biological warfare research.

1995 Dr. Garth Nicolson, uncovers evidence that the biological agents used during the Gulf War had been manufactured in Houston, TX and Boca Raton, Fl and tested on prisoners in the Texas Department of Corrections.

1996 Department of Defense admits that Desert Storm soldiers were exposed to chemical agents.

1997 Eighty-eight members of Congress sign a letter demanding an investigation into bioweapons use & Gulf War Syndrome.

© 1998-2000 Health News Network
All Rights Reserved

[speakeasy]

I'm quite astounded that nearly 1 in 3 RVFers actually believes in this shit.

[K Galt]

(08-02-2014 10:51 AM)speakeasy Wrote:  

I'm quite astounded that nearly 1 in 3 RVFers actually believes in this shit.

I'm astounded at the vehemence and certitude many of you have expressed on this thread.

To reiterate:

I noticed something I considered unusual and something I've never seen before in the Las Vegas airspace. So I wondered if others have noticed the same thing in their respective locales, as I am aware of many pics and youtube vids from people all over the country noting the unusual activity as well.

Some of you have then proceeded to act like noting this unusual activity is the same thing as declaring all crazy speculations and conspiracy theories are factual truths.

I did no such thing.

Why are some of you so intent on trying to convince guys like me that what I saw is not what I think I saw? Or that simply relating what I saw is the same as embracing crazy conspiracy theories?



In the time I spent just watching these Jets criss cross the sky in a grid formation, I also saw numerous commercial jets take off and land at McCarran. None of them created contrails that dissipated over severral hours into a hazy cloud cover like that.

Furthermore, none of the jets laying down these streams at high altitude ever came close to circling and come in for landing at McCarran's runways.

So for those of you trying to tell me I was just watching normal contrails of normal commercial air traffic, I say you may be trying to tell me what I was seeing, but you are wrong.

I know that whatever I was watching, it was not the normal air traffic of an International Airport.

That is the only thing I will say with absolute certainty on this topic. Whoever these people are, they are certainly spraying something unusual in the air above the Las Vegas valley, and they are doing it in a purposeful, deliberate and systematic pattern at a high altitude.

Why? I don't know, and I don't pretend to either.

So you can stop with the straw man arguments and attempts to dismiss the veracity of my observations (and others too) as delusions of conspiracy theory.

[TigerMandingo]

(08-02-2014 10:51 AM)speakeasy Wrote:  

I'm quite astounded that nearly 1 in 3 RVFers actually believes in this shit.

Every single Russian I know believes in the 9/11 cover-up, UFOs, the JFK conspiracy etc. I mean, its good to be skeptical but goddamn!!

George Carlin mentioned once that something like 1 in 3 Americans believes in ANGELS.

[AntiTrace]

(08-02-2014 03:22 PM)Cunnilinguist Wrote:  

George Carlin mentioned once that something like 1 in 3 Americans believes in ANGELS.

I believe in Angels.

[Engineer]

(08-02-2014 03:19 PM)K Galt Wrote:  

(08-02-2014 10:51 AM)speakeasy Wrote:  

I'm quite astounded that nearly 1 in 3 RVFers actually believes in this shit.

I'm astounded at the vehemence and certitude many of you have expressed on this thread.

To reiterate:

I noticed something I considered unusual and something I've never seen before in the Las Vegas airspace. So I wondered if others have noticed the same thing in their respective locales, as I am aware of many pics and youtube vids from people all over the country noting the unusual activity as well.

Some of you have then proceeded to act like noting this unusual activity is the same thing as declaring all crazy speculations and conspiracy theories are factual truths.

I did no such thing.

Why are some of you so intent on trying to convince guys like me that what I saw is not what I think I saw? Or that simply relating what I saw is the same as embracing crazy conspiracy theories?



In the time I spent just watching these Jets criss cross the sky in a grid formation, I also saw numerous commercial jets take off and land at McCarran. None of them created contrails that dissipated over severral hours into a hazy cloud cover like that.

Furthermore, none of the jets laying down these streams at high altitude ever came close to circling and come in for landing at McCarran's runways.

So for those of you trying to tell me I was just watching normal contrails of normal commercial air traffic, I say you may be trying to tell me what I was seeing, but you are wrong.

I know that whatever I was watching, it was not the normal air traffic of an International Airport.

That is the only thing I will say with absolute certainty on this topic. Whoever these people are, they are certainly spraying something unusual in the air above the Las Vegas valley, and they are doing it in a purposeful, deliberate and systematic pattern at a high altitude.

Why? I don't know, and I don't pretend to either.

So you can stop with the straw man arguments and attempts to dismiss the veracity of my observations (and others too) as delusions of conspiracy theory.

No one is doubting your observations of planes crisscrossing the sky in unusual patterns. Clearly you have good eyesight and observational powers. I'd be a fool to try to argue about what you actually saw - as you even observed the higher contrail behaved differently than the lower ones. But wind speed and direction changes around a lot as a function of altitude (as does ambient humidity), so contrails will form and behave differently as well. We're just arguing about what you concluded based on what you saw.

You have zero actual evidence they're spraying, yet you state certainly that they are. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.

This is the chemtrail argument as I understand it:
1) Planes and contrails are behaving strangely
2) Our government has done bad things in the past, including mind control experiments on unwilling subjects
3) Other massive conspiracies have existed e.g. NSA spying on everyone

My questions:
1) Why would they do this right in front of you IN THE DAYTIME? Does the chemical not work at night?
2) Wouldn't it be simpler to do it covertly in your water supply? Dispensing a chemical in air at altitude would dilute it immensely by the time it got down to where we'd breathe it.
3) The scale of this type of operation would involve hundreds if not thousands of people. None of them have a conscience and a cell phone camera to show the world any hard evidence in the last 10 years?

K Galt I know you're a smart guy based on a lot of your posts I've read in the past year since I started lurking here. You're simply barking up the wrong tree on this issue.

[Shogun]

(08-02-2014 03:19 PM)K Galt Wrote:  

Why are some of you so intent on trying to convince guys like me that what I saw is not what I think I saw? Or that simply relating what I saw is the same as embracing crazy conspiracy theories?

Because conspiracy theorists refuse to listen to logic and reason and instead prefer to make sweet love to their own confirmation bias.

(08-02-2014 03:19 PM)K Galt Wrote:  

In the time I spent just watching these Jets criss cross the sky in a grid formation, I also saw numerous commercial jets take off and land at McCarran. None of them created contrails that dissipated over severral hours into a hazy cloud cover like that.

Do you realize that the temperature at average cruising altitude of 30,000 feet is -30F? This lack of understanding of basic science shows how unwilling you are to do even the most trivial information search on a subject you express curiosity of.

(08-02-2014 03:19 PM)K Galt Wrote:  

Furthermore, none of the jets laying down these streams at high altitude ever came close to circling and come in for landing at McCarran's runways.

Because they are at cruising altitude which is also why you can't see their markings.

(08-02-2014 03:19 PM)K Galt Wrote:  

So for those of you trying to tell me I was just watching normal contrails of normal commercial air traffic, I say you may be trying to tell me what I was seeing, but you are wrong.

Translation: I don't know what is going on but I know it's not what you think it is. Therefore, I do know what's going on. CONTRAILS! CONSPIRACY! MIND CONTROL!

(08-02-2014 03:19 PM)K Galt Wrote:  

I know that whatever I was watching, it was not the normal air traffic of an International Airport.

CONSPIRACY! WE FOUND THEIR BASE!

(08-02-2014 03:19 PM)K Galt Wrote:  

That is the only thing I will say with absolute certainty on this topic. Whoever these people are, they are certainly spraying something unusual in the air above the Las Vegas valley, and they are doing it in a purposeful, deliberate and systematic pattern at a high altitude.

*sigh* So you admit that you don't know what they're spraying and then you express that you are certain they are spraying something unusual? http://www.rooshvforum.network/images/sm...w/gtfo.gif

(08-02-2014 03:19 PM)K Galt Wrote:  

Why? I don't know, and I don't pretend to either.

Nor do you want to.

(08-02-2014 03:19 PM)K Galt Wrote:  

So you can stop with the straw man arguments and attempts to dismiss the veracity of my observations (and others too) as delusions of conspiracy theory.

Translation: Stop with your attempts to show me reasonable and logical explanations for this.

[speakeasy]

(08-02-2014 03:19 PM)K Galt Wrote:  

Furthermore, none of the jets laying down these streams at high altitude ever came close to circling and come in for landing at McCarran's runways.

So for those of you trying to tell me I was just watching normal contrails of normal commercial air traffic, I say you may be trying to tell me what I was seeing, but you are wrong.

I know that whatever I was watching, it was not the normal air traffic of an International Airport.

Did you even read any of what I said above in my initial response to you? I explained that. Of course they're not landing at McCarran. Most the jets you see over southern Nevada are flying between LAX and the east coast/midwest. Look at the map. Any flight between a Socal airport and most the major midwestern and east coast cities take you right over the Vegas area. LAX-NYC is the most frequently flown route in America. Those flights normally pass directly over Vegas. There's nothing unsual about seeing a LOT of planes flying over Vegas at high altitude because it's a very heavy traffic corridor going into and leaving southern California.

Just look at this link here if you want to know why there are contrails everywhere: http://flightaware.com/live/airport/KLAS

It will show you in almost real time(there's about a 10-15 minute lag time I've found) every plane in the sky that's over Vegas airspace. It'll show you the flight number, type of plane, origin, destination, current altitude, speed and all this shit that air traffic control has access to. So if you see something unusual in the sky and know how to find yourself on the map, you can figure out what plane is what. A couple months ago while in the backyard I saw a 747 or A380 flying directly overhead. Even though it was at cruising altitude, I could see the 4 contrails behind. I almost never see those type of jets flying around this part of the country since they are only used for transoceanic flight. I got curious to see where it was coming from and going. I pulled up the site to see what was in the airspace at the moment and found a British Airways 747 flying from London to Houston right in the part of the sky I saw. I could even see whether it was arriving on time or late. So my point is, with all the information out there that's instantly accessible, there's no need to be running around guessing. If you see an unusual plane in the sky, go pull up the air traffic map and see what it is rather than making conspiracy theories.

[K Galt]

Did you even read any of what I said above in my initial response to you? I explained that. Of course they're not landing at McCarran. Most the jets you see over southern Nevada are flying between LAX and the east coast/midwest.

Did you read where I said I observed these jets flying back and forth in a grid pattern over the Vegas valley area, almost like "lawn mowing the sky?." Rather unusual for jets supposedly flying between East Coast and LAX.

Translation: Stop with your attempts to show me reasonable and logical explanations for this.

No, reasonable and logical explanations are appreciated and contemplated in good faith. But many of the responses here have been conflating my observations with various facets of conspiracy theory as if I were making them the primary focus of this thread.

So far only Youngback has weighed in with similar observations to mine. Most of the responses have been denunciations and ridiculing conspiracy theory or to tell me I wasn't seeing what I think I was seeing.

I may not have, but the two explanations offered - that I was watching East-West coast flights flying overhead, or that I was watching planes being told to circle until they had permission to land don't match up with what I was seeing.

[AntiTrace]

Speak, he at least does have a solid point that some military traffic wont show up on that map. That doesnt make the chemtrail claims any more valid though, but any conspiracy theorist will easily shoot down that map because of that.

Heres a cool link: http://www.liveatc.net/search/?icao=klas

listen to ATC traffic live.

Take a look at some busy airports and you will see how congested and stressfull it can become to pilots

[AntiTrace]

(08-02-2014 06:54 PM)K Galt Wrote:  

Did you even read any of what I said above in my initial response to you? I explained that. Of course they're not landing at McCarran. Most the jets you see over southern Nevada are flying between LAX and the east coast/midwest.

Did you read where I said I observed these jets flying back and forth in a grid pattern over the Vegas valley area, almost like "lawn mowing the sky?." Rather unusual for jets supposedly flying between East Coast and LAX.

Translation: Stop with your attempts to show me reasonable and logical explanations for this.

No, reasonable and logical explanations are appreciated and contemplated in good faith. But many of the responses here have been conflating my observations with various facets of conspiracy theory as if I were making them the primary focus of this thread.

So far only Youngback has weighed in with similar observations to mine. Most of the responses have been denunciations and ridiculing conspiracy theory or to tell me I wasn't seeing what I think I was seeing.

I may not have, but the two explanations offered - that I was watching East-West coast flights flying overhead, or that I was watching planes being told to circle until they had permission to land don't match up with what I was seeing.


I wanted to see if other folks have made similar observations to what I saw, and so far only

KGalt, look at my previous posts. I gave plausible explanations for everything to witnessed, even analyzing the picture you posted.

Respond to those and I will gladly try to explain further