[Samseau]

(07-19-2014 11:22 AM)Dr.Edd Wrote:  

Was excessive force used? Of course..there were four cops to that one dude. But the thing is if I'm with three of my friends and one dude comes up to one of my friends I'm not going to tone done my actions because there are three more of us than him. I'm going to use all my force and so will my other three friends.

Even when those other dudes have guns? The only people who talk tough when the guns are pointed at them are in the movies.

[Dr.Edd]

(07-19-2014 11:24 AM)Samseau Wrote:  

(07-19-2014 11:22 AM)Dr.Edd Wrote:  

Was excessive force used? Of course..there were four cops to that one dude. But the thing is if I'm with three of my friends and one dude comes up to one of my friends I'm not going to tone done my actions because there are three more of us than him. I'm going to use all my force and so will my other three friends.

Even when those other dudes have guns? The only people who talk tough when the guns are pointed at them are in the movies.

The four guys in my scenario are the cops. I don't expect the cops to tone down their response because the ratio is in their favor.

[The Father]

Tough situation. As others have observed, the guy was stupid to resist arrest - when has that ever turned out to be a winning hand in America the last 20 years? Clearly, the guy was pretty agitated and anyone who knows anything about Staten Island would guess its not the first time the police on SI (largely working class Italian American) harassed a black man. My guess its the 1,000th time and he was sick of it. So I understand why he didn't do the smart thing. It ended up killing him. From the cops standpoint, lots of cops get hurt in otherwise "routine" arrests in so I understand why they err on the side of being hard-asses.

It's hard to feel too sorry for anyone here. The guy was grossly overweight and its how to see how that didn't contribute to his death. Also, he claim "I'm just doing my business" is not a sympathetic one - his business is technically illegal. The cops involved, at least some of them, will probably have their lives ruined. It's hard to feel sorry for them, too. Seeing how agitated this guy was, did they really need to arrest him for this non-violent crime? Charge him, fine him, confiscate his stuff, whatever - but does every violation of the law have to end in cuffs? Some Wall St firms were recently fined BILLIONS by the feds for violating the law. BILLIONS. No cuffs. Why does every street crime need to end in cuffs if the crime isn't violent?

[The Father]

(07-19-2014 11:24 AM)Samseau Wrote:  

Even when those other dudes have guns? The only people who talk tough when the guns are pointed at them are in the movies.

Sometimes not even then...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HXuBnz6vtuI

[Mongo]

Everybody screwed up here. He didn't help himself by resisting the way he did. Was it a natural reaction? Probably. But once cops feel the need to put hands on you, there is no way to predict how far they will go with it.

That being said, chokeholds have been out of the law enforcement playbook for years. Did it contribute to his death however? Debatable. His health clearly was a prior issue, and the violence/stress of how he was arrested was likely the straw that broke the camels back and triggered the heart attack. Given that it is in New York, don't hold your breath for anybody to get fired/charged over this.

[The Father]

(07-19-2014 12:54 PM)Mongo Wrote:  

Given that it is in New York, don't hold your breath for anybody to get fired/charged over this.

I don't understand that statement. NYC has a large African-American community and when white cops kill or hurt a black man, it seems to be headline news that sometimes results in criminal trials. (Abner Louima, etc). Is there something I'm missing? Are these high profile cases the exception? I don't claim to be the expert in this area, but it seems to me that LA and other cities have done less against cops when an accidental death occurs. Fullerton, CA anyone?

[Mongo]

(07-19-2014 01:13 PM)The Father Wrote:  

(07-19-2014 12:54 PM)Mongo Wrote:  

Given that it is in New York, don't hold your breath for anybody to get fired/charged over this.

I don't understand that statement. NYC has a large African-American community and when white cops kill or hurt a black man, it seems to be headline news that sometimes results in criminal trials. (Abner Louima, etc). Is there something I'm missing? Are these high profile cases the exception? I don't claim to be the expert in this area, but it seems to me that LA and other cities have done less against cops when an accidental death occurs. Fullerton, CA anyone?

You make a fair point. I might be a bit biased since I grew up near Fullerton (5-10 min away), but my experiences and recollections of New York is that while it will make headlines and be a big deal, short of cold-blooded murder will a cop get charged for this type of incident. Feel free to correct me if my impression isn't accurate.

[The Father]

(07-19-2014 01:22 PM)Mongo Wrote:  

(07-19-2014 01:13 PM)The Father Wrote:  

(07-19-2014 12:54 PM)Mongo Wrote:  

Given that it is in New York, don't hold your breath for anybody to get fired/charged over this.

I don't understand that statement. NYC has a large African-American community and when white cops kill or hurt a black man, it seems to be headline news that sometimes results in criminal trials. (Abner Louima, etc). Is there something I'm missing? Are these high profile cases the exception? I don't claim to be the expert in this area, but it seems to me that LA and other cities have done less against cops when an accidental death occurs. Fullerton, CA anyone?

You make a fair point. I might be a bit biased since I grew up near Fullerton (5-10 min away), but my experiences and recollections of New York is that while it will make headlines and be a big deal, short of cold-blooded murder will a cop get charged for this type of incident. Feel free to correct me if my impression isn't accurate.

I think in general your statement is correct, but in areas of high minority concentration, a white cop or cops who kill a member of that minority community can expect trouble. Especially when its six cops on one guy. The white cops who kill a Puerto rican kid in a the Bronx, a black kid who dies in a hail of bullets because white cops "thought" he was reaching for a gun, a Mexican in LA or the vicinity, etc.

This will be an interesting case, though: Staten Island is mostly white immigrants, new or old (Italian-American, Russians etc). But NYC as a whole has a high black population. It will be interesting to see what comes of this. Hopefully, the Moron-In Chief will not weigh in like he did in Boston and say "Mehhh...the cops acted STUPIDLY". Fuck you. I think black men get hassled by the police way more than whites. Doesn't mean it's a Presidential issue, asshole. FIX THE FUCKING ECONOMY, OBUMMER!

Edit: Sorry for the OT rant. heh heh.

[YoungDominican]

Wow, just saw fruitvale station last night, a movie about Oscar Grant. This police brutality thing is no joke

[aphelion]

When you date one asshole, maybe it's his fault.

When you date 31 assholes, maybe it's your fault.

This guy had been arrested 31 times for assault, petty theft and selling untaxed cigs and other stuff. Of course he's tired of being hassled by the cops - the cops are tired of being hassled by him too. And let's be serious, if his health is so fragile that his 350-pound fat ass can't handle being gently jiu jitsu'd by a guy half his size, well, he should probably not mess with cops in the first place.

From what I can tell, the cops' use of force was a little excessive, but when a large man is agitated and angry in front of you, you might expect the worst. And there's no reasonable way they could have expected him to die from being restrained - it's not like they pulled guns and beat him to death Rodney King style.

I'm bloody sick and tired of law enforcement - as slightly out of line as they were here - being run up the flagpole when they don't handle the 274th shithead of the day with surgical precision and deference. Why do we always make civil justice cases out of losers and scumbags, and they become the heroes of the day rather than the good and decent people who go through their lives with their own struggles and difficulties without destroying civilization around them? Why is it the Trayvons, the losers and the scumbags, that pull our heartstrings and inform our moral struggles? Why is it not everyday Joe or Jane (or Jerome and Shaylynne, or whatever) who tow the social line and pay their taxes and try to stay out of trouble rather than to court it at every turn?

That's not to say that there aren't bad cops out there. But the only time we ever hear about good cops is when they pet a baby goat, or skateboard, or make some autistic child's dream come true by giving him a ridealong. And that doesn't make up for the few bad apples out of the bunch, who we bellyache about when they tase some violent drug addict into submission and then he has a stroke. Whatever.

Get these assholes off of my Facebook feed.

[aphelion]

Expecting some hate for that one.

[polymath]

This shit won't end until cops who kill innocent people are forced to face jury trials rather than "internal investigations" by their colleagues and friends.

[The Father]

(07-19-2014 02:30 PM)aphelion Wrote:  

This guy had been arrested 31 times for assault, petty theft and selling untaxed cigs and other stuff.

I didn't realize that. It certainly adds some context.

This is a tough one. We're all sick of the a-holes who are generally up to no good and then, when arrested, complain "boo boo boo! It's because I'm [insert special - interest group here]".

But I would also bet that most of us have been pulled over the a-hole cop, campus cop, etc who is on a power trip and that's not a very sympathetic group, either.

I know! Here's a new rule: Whenever police are needed to intervene in a dangerous situation where the alleged perp has a violent record, we are required to send dirty cops with the worst attitude and a history of throwing their weight around inappropriately! Maybe they will kill each other!!

[soup]

(07-19-2014 02:30 PM)aphelion Wrote:  

When you date one asshole, maybe it's his fault.

When you date 31 assholes, maybe it's your fault.

This guy had been arrested 31 times for assault, petty theft and selling untaxed cigs and other stuff. Of course he's tired of being hassled by the cops - the cops are tired of being hassled by him too. And let's be serious, if his health is so fragile that his 350-pound fat ass can't handle being gently jiu jitsu'd by a guy half his size, well, he should probably not mess with cops in the first place.

From what I can tell, the cops' use of force was a little excessive, but when a large man is agitated and angry in front of you, you might expect the worst. And there's no reasonable way they could have expected him to die from being restrained - it's not like they pulled guns and beat him to death Rodney King style.

I'm bloody sick and tired of law enforcement - as slightly out of line as they were here - being run up the flagpole when they don't handle the 274th shithead of the day with surgical precision and deference. Why do we always make civil justice cases out of losers and scumbags, and they become the heroes of the day rather than the good and decent people who go through their lives with their own struggles and difficulties without destroying civilization around them? Why is it the Trayvons, the losers and the scumbags, that pull our heartstrings and inform our moral struggles? Why is it not everyday Joe or Jane (or Jerome and Shaylynne, or whatever) who tow the social line and pay their taxes and try to stay out of trouble rather than to court it at every turn?

That's not to say that there aren't bad cops out there. But the only time we ever hear about good cops is when they pet a baby goat, or skateboard, or make some autistic child's dream come true by giving him a ridealong. And that doesn't make up for the few bad apples out of the bunch, who we bellyache about when they tase some violent drug addict into submission and then he has a stroke. Whatever.

Get these assholes off of my Facebook feed.

Because there's been a lot of racial tension with black people and the NYPD.

[silent_scope]

The increase in police brutality in this country is a frightening reality. In the last decade alone the number of people murdered by police has reached 5,000. The number of soldiers killed since the inception of the Iraq war, 4489.

Read more at http://thefreethoughtproject.com/america...d-iraq-war

You have more of a chance of getting killed by police in american than dying from a terrorist attack.

[TigerMandingo]

American cops are the law enforcement version of American women: grossly inflated egos, completely unreasonable, and fat/out of shape. And you should do your best to avoid them at any cost, just as you would with these women.

[HawkWrites]

(07-20-2014 06:43 PM)Cunnilinguist Wrote:  

American cops are the law enforcement version of American women: grossly inflated egos, completely unreasonable, and fat/out of shape. And you should do your best to avoid them at any cost, just as you would with these women.

That's a gross generalization that typically doesn't ring true unless you're being a dick to them in the first place. There are going to be bad people in any group but the majority of the ones I know are interested in protecting their community and are actually cordial to you.

I've gotten hooked up for scary shit in the past (no I didn't do it and I was released) but there aren't too many times you confront your own mortality than when you have seven officers with 9mm handguns pointed at your chest.

The fact of the matter was, though, after their initial show of force and me being completely nice to them and following all their orders they showed me the exact same amount of respect. Hell, the arresting officer and I were even cracking jokes and telling stories to each other about our life experiences by the squad car while I was standing there in cuffs. I de-escalated everything nicely and all of us got along well. It was pretty much all smiles and laughter the entire way through since I knew I hadn't done anything and once it was all said-and-done there were no hard feelings.

[weambulance]

^^

You seem to be suggesting that being all buddy buddy and talking to cops is a good thing, like that's going to help you. Sure, being polite will stop them curb stomping you even if they're arresting you for some heinous shit, but running your yap just gives them rope to hang you with. A cop is acting like your friend to make you comfortable so you'll talk. If a cop is talking to you, it's because he suspects you of something, and your best bet is to comply with his legal demands and STFU until your lawyer is present. You think they're going to let you go if you seem like a cool enough guy or something? Serial killers are often very charming.

People don't like cops because cops can ruin your life on a whim, abuse of power is usually swept under the rug, and they take a very "us vs them" attitude toward "civilians". That sort of combative/dehumanizing attitude is extremely dangerous. Us vs them, our tribe vs their tribe, is one of the things that makes it very easy for soldiers to kill in combat. First hand experience here. Personally, I'm not that comfortable with our peace officers holding the same mindset as soldiers embroiled in war.

So, of course I'm very uncomfortable being around someone who has the power to completely fuck up my world just because I didn't grovel enough for his taste and I don't have my own badge. Even if a particular cop doesn't engage in corruption or abuse of power himself, but he sees it around him and does nothing, he's giving his tacit approval of corruption and abuse. Hardly the mark of a good cop. The people best suited to hold power are those who do not seek it. It doesn't matter what sort of power it is, that is always true.

And yes, I've been arrested several times too. Once I was mistaken for an active shooter, when I was also carrying a gun. Good times.

[HawkWrites]

(07-20-2014 10:58 PM)weambulance Wrote:  

^^

You seem to be suggesting that being all buddy buddy and talking to cops is a good thing, like that's going to help you. Sure, being polite will stop them curb stomping you even if they're arresting you for some heinous shit, but running your yap just gives them rope to hang you with. A cop is acting like your friend to make you comfortable so you'll talk. If a cop is talking to you, it's because he suspects you of something, and your best bet is to comply with his legal demands and STFU until your lawyer is present. You think they're going to let you go if you seem like a cool enough guy or something? Serial killers are often very charming.

People don't like cops because cops can ruin your life on a whim, abuse of power is usually swept under the rug, and they take a very "us vs them" attitude toward "civilians". That sort of combative/dehumanizing attitude is extremely dangerous. Us vs them, our tribe vs their tribe, is one of the things that makes it very easy for soldiers to kill in combat. First hand experience here. Personally, I'm not that comfortable with our peace officers holding the same mindset as soldiers embroiled in war.

So, of course I'm very uncomfortable being around someone who has the power to completely fuck up my world just because I didn't grovel enough for his taste and I don't have my own badge. Even if a particular cop doesn't engage in corruption or abuse of power himself, but he sees it around him and does nothing, he's giving his tacit approval of corruption and abuse. Hardly the mark of a good cop. The people best suited to hold power are those who do not seek it. It doesn't matter what sort of power it is, that is always true.

And yes, I've been arrested several times too. Once I was mistaken for an active shooter, when I was also carrying a gun. Good times.

If you have absolutely for which to be guilty, you have no reason not to be buddy-buddy. My accusation was active shooter as well and I kept things light. I didn't grovel or beg but rather kept my composure and explained my situation. I was still hooked up but once I got to the squad car outside I was treated with nothing but respect. It sounds to me like you just got a cop that was a dick; I'm not doubting that they exist. I'm just doubting that they're the majority.

It's not true at all. As long as you're not a dick and don't display any qualities of being such you should be fine.

[tarquin]

(07-20-2014 11:01 PM)HawkWrites Wrote:  

(07-20-2014 10:58 PM)weambulance Wrote:  

^^

You seem to be suggesting that being all buddy buddy and talking to cops is a good thing, like that's going to help you. Sure, being polite will stop them curb stomping you even if they're arresting you for some heinous shit, but running your yap just gives them rope to hang you with. A cop is acting like your friend to make you comfortable so you'll talk. If a cop is talking to you, it's because he suspects you of something, and your best bet is to comply with his legal demands and STFU until your lawyer is present. You think they're going to let you go if you seem like a cool enough guy or something? Serial killers are often very charming.

People don't like cops because cops can ruin your life on a whim, abuse of power is usually swept under the rug, and they take a very "us vs them" attitude toward "civilians". That sort of combative/dehumanizing attitude is extremely dangerous. Us vs them, our tribe vs their tribe, is one of the things that makes it very easy for soldiers to kill in combat. First hand experience here. Personally, I'm not that comfortable with our peace officers holding the same mindset as soldiers embroiled in war.

So, of course I'm very uncomfortable being around someone who has the power to completely fuck up my world just because I didn't grovel enough for his taste and I don't have my own badge. Even if a particular cop doesn't engage in corruption or abuse of power himself, but he sees it around him and does nothing, he's giving his tacit approval of corruption and abuse. Hardly the mark of a good cop. The people best suited to hold power are those who do not seek it. It doesn't matter what sort of power it is, that is always true.

And yes, I've been arrested several times too. Once I was mistaken for an active shooter, when I was also carrying a gun. Good times.

If you have absolutely for which to be guilty, you have no reason not to be buddy-buddy. My accusation was active shooter as well and I kept things light. I didn't grovel or beg but rather kept my composure and explained my situation. I was still hooked up but once I got to the squad car outside I was treated with nothing but respect. It sounds to me like you just got a cop that was a dick; I'm not doubting that they exist. I'm just doubting that they're the majority.

It's not true at all. As long as you're not a dick and don't display any qualities of being such you should be fine.

Bolded is incorrect. If you want to be buddy-buddy about a traffic violation, that's your call. Once you get into misdemeanor land and above, STFU and ask for a lawyer.

For just one example of how talking could be bad:

Let's say that you are falsely accused of rape. You know it's bullshit, so you freely talk and are "buddy-buddy" with the arresting and interrogating officers. They show you a picture of a girl. She's a complete cracked out ugly whore. You've never seen this woman in your life. So you tell the police this.

The problem is, the picture is of a woman you actually had sex with a week before. The picture shows her without makeup on and after a long night of drug/alcohol abuse: not how you remember her at all. When the police officer goes on the stand, do you know what he tells the jury?

Exactly what you told him. Mr. So-and-so said that he never saw this woman and he signed a statement saying so before we took a DNA sample from the pepsi bottle he was drinking from (we him pepsi, because we're buddies and all) and let him go.

Whoops! Why did you lie about knowing her? The DNA matches, so you obviously did see her...

At that point, you almost have to take the stand. As far as the jury is concerned, you are now a liar. Go ahead, get up on the stand and melt in front of the Court and the Jury in your own defense explaining why you couldn't identify her in the pictures, and then go on to explain how you didn't rape her. Do you think you would make a good witness in your own defense? I don't. It's nothing personal, but 99.9% of people are bad witnesses and crumble under the pressure. Even with preparation it's bad.

Not something I'd like to risk. If you want to be buddy-buddy, be buddy-buddy when you are on the stand with no statements to be offered against you.

[HawkWrites]

(07-20-2014 11:34 PM)tarquin Wrote:  

(07-20-2014 11:01 PM)HawkWrites Wrote:  

(07-20-2014 10:58 PM)weambulance Wrote:  

^^

You seem to be suggesting that being all buddy buddy and talking to cops is a good thing, like that's going to help you. Sure, being polite will stop them curb stomping you even if they're arresting you for some heinous shit, but running your yap just gives them rope to hang you with. A cop is acting like your friend to make you comfortable so you'll talk. If a cop is talking to you, it's because he suspects you of something, and your best bet is to comply with his legal demands and STFU until your lawyer is present. You think they're going to let you go if you seem like a cool enough guy or something? Serial killers are often very charming.

People don't like cops because cops can ruin your life on a whim, abuse of power is usually swept under the rug, and they take a very "us vs them" attitude toward "civilians". That sort of combative/dehumanizing attitude is extremely dangerous. Us vs them, our tribe vs their tribe, is one of the things that makes it very easy for soldiers to kill in combat. First hand experience here. Personally, I'm not that comfortable with our peace officers holding the same mindset as soldiers embroiled in war.

So, of course I'm very uncomfortable being around someone who has the power to completely fuck up my world just because I didn't grovel enough for his taste and I don't have my own badge. Even if a particular cop doesn't engage in corruption or abuse of power himself, but he sees it around him and does nothing, he's giving his tacit approval of corruption and abuse. Hardly the mark of a good cop. The people best suited to hold power are those who do not seek it. It doesn't matter what sort of power it is, that is always true.

And yes, I've been arrested several times too. Once I was mistaken for an active shooter, when I was also carrying a gun. Good times.

If you have absolutely for which to be guilty, you have no reason not to be buddy-buddy. My accusation was active shooter as well and I kept things light. I didn't grovel or beg but rather kept my composure and explained my situation. I was still hooked up but once I got to the squad car outside I was treated with nothing but respect. It sounds to me like you just got a cop that was a dick; I'm not doubting that they exist. I'm just doubting that they're the majority.

It's not true at all. As long as you're not a dick and don't display any qualities of being such you should be fine.

Bolded is incorrect. If you want to be buddy-buddy about a traffic violation, that's your call. Once you get into misdemeanor land and above, STFU and ask for a lawyer.

For just one example of how talking could be bad:

Let's say that you are falsely accused of rape. You know it's bullshit, so you freely talk and are "buddy-buddy" with the arresting and interrogating officers. They show you a picture of a girl. She's a complete cracked out ugly whore. You've never seen this woman in your life. So you tell the police this.

The problem is, the picture is of a woman you actually had sex with a week before. The picture shows her without makeup on and after a long night of drug/alcohol abuse: not how you remember her at all. When the police officer goes on the stand, do you know what he tells the jury?

Exactly what you told him. Mr. So-and-so said that he never saw this woman and he signed a statement saying so before we took a DNA sample from the pepsi bottle he was drinking from (we him pepsi, because we're buddies and all) and let him go.

Whoops! Why did you lie about knowing her? The DNA matches, so you obviously did see her...

At that point, you almost have to take the stand. As far as the jury is concerned, you are now a liar. Go ahead, get up on the stand and melt in front of the Court and the Jury in your own defense explaining why you couldn't identify her in the pictures, and then go on to explain how you didn't rape her. Do you think you would make a good witness in your own defense? I don't. It's nothing personal, but 99.9% of people are bad witnesses and crumble under the pressure. Even with preparation it's bad.

Not something I'd like to risk. If you want to be buddy-buddy, be buddy-buddy when you are on the stand with no statements to be offered against you.

Failed example. If you're accused of rape you have very little recourse regardless of the system that supposed to protect you. You're pretty much fucked no matter what you do.

My example deals with the fact that you may have options within terrible opposition.

[Beyond Borders]

(07-19-2014 11:24 AM)Samseau Wrote:  

(07-19-2014 11:22 AM)Dr.Edd Wrote:  

Was excessive force used? Of course..there were four cops to that one dude. But the thing is if I'm with three of my friends and one dude comes up to one of my friends I'm not going to tone done my actions because there are three more of us than him. I'm going to use all my force and so will my other three friends.

Even when those other dudes have guns? The only people who talk tough when the guns are pointed at them are in the movies.

That's not true. You underestimate people. If you really think that, the balls on some guys would surprise the hell out of you.

Not me though. A gun will shut me right the fuck up, as long as I'm sober. lol

[weambulance]

(07-20-2014 11:34 PM)tarquin Wrote:  

Bolded is incorrect. If you want to be buddy-buddy about a traffic violation, that's your call. Once you get into misdemeanor land and above, STFU and ask for a lawyer.

For just one example of how talking could be bad:

Let's say that you are falsely accused of rape. You know it's bullshit, so you freely talk and are "buddy-buddy" with the arresting and interrogating officers. They show you a picture of a girl. She's a complete cracked out ugly whore. You've never seen this woman in your life. So you tell the police this.

The problem is, the picture is of a woman you actually had sex with a week before. The picture shows her without makeup on and after a long night of drug/alcohol abuse: not how you remember her at all. When the police officer goes on the stand, do you know what he tells the jury?

Exactly what you told him. Mr. So-and-so said that he never saw this woman and he signed a statement saying so before we took a DNA sample from the pepsi bottle he was drinking from (we him pepsi, because we're buddies and all) and let him go.

Whoops! Why did you lie about knowing her? The DNA matches, so you obviously did see her...

At that point, you almost have to take the stand. As far as the jury is concerned, you are now a liar. Go ahead, get up on the stand and melt in front of the Court and the Jury in your own defense explaining why you couldn't identify her in the pictures, and then go on to explain how you didn't rape her. Do you think you would make a good witness in your own defense? I don't. It's nothing personal, but 99.9% of people are bad witnesses and crumble under the pressure. Even with preparation it's bad.

Not something I'd like to risk. If you want to be buddy-buddy, be buddy-buddy when you are on the stand with no statements to be offered against you.

Exactly. Plenty of people talk themselves right into jail. If they would've just shut the hell up, even if they were 100% guilty and they knew it, they would've walked. And how many innocent men have been imprisoned because they tried to talk their way out of a charge and the prosecutor "just knew" they were guilty, and did everything he could to get them convicted? The cops, the DA, the judge, none of these people are your friends. Shut up, don't give them anything to pick apart, don't give them any words to twist. It's all risk, no reward.

[weambulance]

(07-21-2014 02:01 AM)HawkWrites Wrote:  

Failed example. If you're accused of rape you have very little recourse regardless of the system that supposed to protect you. You're pretty much fucked no matter what you do.

My example deals with the fact that you may have options within terrible opposition.

Do what ya want, man.

[Sp5]

(07-21-2014 02:01 AM)HawkWrites Wrote:  

Failed example. If you're accused of rape you have very little recourse regardless of the system that supposed to protect you. You're pretty much fucked no matter what you do.

My example deals with the fact that you may have options within terrible opposition.

Not true. With a jury, you always have a shot. There are a lot of acquittals in rape cases, as I have said before.

The scary thing is that even if you shut up (which you should do) the cops can put words in your mouth if they're unethical enough.

Which is why defense lawyers demanding audio/video of any interviews is now a feature of any defense of a case with alleged "admissions." With the technology nowadays, really no excuse, even with expedient interviews on the street. London cops will soon have a video camera attached and activated while on duty.

http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2014/...eractions/

Quote:

London police will soon wear video cameras
Manufacturer says cameras are a "game changer," cops not so excited.

Of course they're not so excited, takes away the opportunity to expertly lie.