[Dalaran1991]

One of my favourite articles from roosh that summed up the game for me. I understand everything except this:

http://www.rooshv.com/how-to-pick-up-girls-for-real

"Be like the soap opera. Master the art of drama and girls will keep tuning in."

Can anyone elaborate on this? This is not the first time I heard such thing, but I have never truly understand it. Isn't masculinity about being un-dramatic as much as possible? What does he mean by drama? Are you supposed to get angry for no reason/disappear without a word for days/have terrible mood swing?

[assman]

I'm interested in this as well. I am the most even keeled guy I know. One of the best parts of sticking only to casual relationships with women is the total avoidance of drama. As soon as she starts, I can easily move on to another chick.

But I recognize that I don't have a potentially powerful tool in my arsenal of game. Not really sure how to manufacture drama without it seeming disingenuous.

[WestIndianArchie]

(06-11-2014 01:32 PM)Dalaran1991 Wrote:  

Are you supposed to get angry for no reason/disappear without a word for days/have terrible mood swing?

Example

Chick - "I'm headed out with the girls tonight"
You - "Bitch you can't go, you didn't clear that with me"

Chick - *stunned* *anger* *shouting match ensues*
You - *keep stoking the flame*
Both - *climax*
*resolve*
*make up sex*

Relationship recharged for another couple of weeks.

You have to be willing to fight in order to keep fucking.
She craves the drama. She wants things to be tough and chaotic.

WIA

[polymath]

I'm knee deep in drama right now. It seems like you have to be at least a little dramatic to keep your head above water with latina girls.

"If you can’t close, you’re an entertainer."

Jesus, that makes me feel a little resentment for every girl that didn't go further than kissing after I invested my energy into her. Haha.

[Dalaran1991]

(06-11-2014 02:08 PM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:  

(06-11-2014 01:32 PM)Dalaran1991 Wrote:  

Are you supposed to get angry for no reason/disappear without a word for days/have terrible mood swing?

Example

Chick - "I'm headed out with the girls tonight"
You - "Bitch you can't go, you didn't clear that with me"

Chick - *stunned* *anger* *shouting match ensues*
You - *keep stoking the flame*
Both - *climax*
*resolve*
*make up sex*

Relationship recharged for another couple of weeks.

You have to be willing to fight in order to keep fucking.
She craves the drama. She wants things to be tough and chaotic.

WIA

Nice example WIA, but bear with me here: what's the difference between that kind of drama and being a beta bitch? Isn't that kind of controlling behavior a sign of weakness?

Or, if I understand it correctly, this is just a frame to start drama and it's simply another trick in your sleeve, without anything to do with being beta?

[Lothario]

(06-11-2014 02:31 PM)Dalaran1991 Wrote:  

Nice example WIA, but bear with me here: what's the difference between that kind of drama and being a beta bitch? Isn't that kind of controlling behavior a sign of weakness?

Or, if I understand it correctly, this is just a frame to start drama and it's simply another trick in your sleeve, without anything to do with being beta?

A beta bitch would be brooding inside that his girl didn't get his approval prior to heading for a girls night out and he would argue with her that will only feed the hamster. In above example by WIA he doesn't give a fuck if the girl goes out he is just enjoying the drama and trolling the girl.

Quoting e-mech "Game is just trolling the Girls"

[Handsome Creepy Eel]

[XXL]

Normal way:
You cause drama unintentionally by doing whatever the fuck you want in everyday life and you give less of a fuck about it cause you know very well that girls crave all emotions, negative ones too so in the end they're "happy" how you make them feel.

For example, you go hang out with your buddies and tell her last minute about it. Or you try to go on a trip with her as a surprise and when she's not down you storm out and decline her calls. Or tell her she's been dressing lame clothes lately. So this way you don't need to analyze it since being "untamed" by default alone causes enough of it.


Adept way:
You let your girl initiate a scene first (she will, girls can't live in a harmony like men) and then you amplify the whole thing so that she gets her fix. So when a girl gets cranky for some weird reason or even for no reason at all you recognize she needs some negative emotions so instead of sitting down to talk you give it to her hard, you strike back, blame her etc. So it's like you wait for her to start shit to throw that shit back at her, hard. At least she gets what she wants when she wants. Not bad.


Advanced way:

[Dalaran1991]

(06-11-2014 03:08 PM)XXL Wrote:  

Normal way:
You cause drama unintentionally by doing whatever the fuck you want in everyday life and you give less of a fuck about it cause you know very well that girls crave all emotions, negative ones too so in the end they're "happy" how you make them feel.

For example, you go hang out with your buddies and tell her last minute about it. Or you try to go on a trip with her as a surprise and when she's not down you storm out and decline her calls. Or tell her she's been dressing lame clothes lately. So this way you don't need to analyze it since being "untamed" by default alone causes enough of it.


Adept way:
You let your girl initiate a scene first (she will, girls can't live in a harmony like men) and then you amplify the whole thing so that she gets her fix. So when a girl gets cranky for some weird reason or even for no reason at all you recognize she needs some negative emotions so instead of sitting down to talk you give it to her hard, you strike back, blame her etc. So it's like you wait for her to start shit to throw that shit back at her, hard. At least she gets what she wants when she wants. Not bad.


Advanced way:

Cool stuff bro. Gave me a basic idea of how it work.

[Noir]

This is gold for relationships. For harems, not at all. Keep your drama minimum and just keep the desire fueled. Push/pull basic stuff to keep it exciting.

Never invest in their drama or give them an excuse if you aren't exclusive. Different dynamics.. Make sure your social game and bedroom game with them is tight and your casual relationships will last. The only ones who wanted drama were the crazy ones who pushed it on me/tried to create scenes.

If you're in a relationship though and you're stirring up a bit of chaos, it makes her appreciate the good times and not take you for granted. The most enjoyable, intense and healthy relationships are emotional rollercoasters. As long as you are aware of what is going on and aren't afraid to leave, play as you will.

In my current single life, I choose to eliminate drama and focus on my personal goals while putting in the analogous effort required to satiate my sexual/social appetite.

[AnonymousBosch]

(06-11-2014 02:31 PM)Dalaran1991 Wrote:  

Nice example WIA, but bear with me here: what's the difference between that kind of drama and being a beta bitch? Isn't that kind of controlling behavior a sign of weakness?

Or, if I understand it correctly, this is just a frame to start drama and it's simply another trick in your sleeve, without anything to do with being beta?

It's not weakness if you're direct and masculine with your styles aggression: escalation, ridicule, humour, sarcasm, being patronising.

The majority of Chick drama is about passive-aggression: sulking, tantrums, pouting, whining, guilt trips, crying, withholding sex and affection.

Both male and female aggression are forms of emotional-abuse, but women will never recognise their style of aggression as that. Remember, as someone said on here recently, it's ok if a woman does it.

To show the difference:

Quote:

Chick - "I'm headed out with the girls tonight"
You - "Bitch you can't go, you didn't clear that with me"

Reverse the sexes, and you'd see this kind of thing, all designed to say you're doing something she dislikes, but not outright saying, "no you don't."

You - "I'm heading out with the boys tonight".

Her - "But you see them all the time. We never get any alone time."

or

"But I wanted to curl up on the couch and watch a movie with you."

or

"You wouldn't want to see them if you really loved me."

or

"I'm not feeling very well."

or

"I'll probably go to bed early. Don't wake me when you come back."

This is also how beta men argue. Don't do that kind of thing.

Drama is relationship game. Someone was confused that I mentioned the word 'Cunt' the other day as being a great trigger for going nuclear. Girls want to become pure emotion - it's why there was theatre after theatre of girls hysterically sobbing at "The Fault In Our Stars" this weekend, including adult women recommending it to other adult women:

Quote:

"I had never watched a movie in a theatre where there was mass crying -- not discreet nose-blowing, or stifled sniffles, but wracking sobs. (I was not immune.)"

It's why girls love boy bands - they give them the same excuse to become pure emotion. It's why feminists love Jezebel writing article after article about things that inspire deep hatred in them so they can rant in the comments. It's why Tuthmosis got death threats and women chopping off their hair to spite him over his recent articles: women want an excuse to act like hysterical brats without being socially-condemned for it.

Give her this, and she will be hooked on you in a deep way, and reward you with intense sex for every dreary outburst you have to endure and stoke the flames of. Understand they're brats who don't understand logic, reason, stoicism and reserve, and resign yourself to everything degenerating into the tantrums of toddlers. Once they dig their hole too deep, and are worried they've burnt their bridges, they pull out the Magic Pussy Card, because they're immature enough to think their unique pussy is the cure for everything.

I hate the fact I have to do this, but that's just what women are and desire. I figure that the majority of them can never build anything of lasting value: they're always fighting the urge to say "fuck everything" and tear it all down.

[WestIndianArchie]

(06-11-2014 02:31 PM)Dalaran1991 Wrote:  

Nice example WIA, but bear with me here: what's the difference between that kind of drama and being a beta bitch? Isn't that kind of controlling behavior a sign of weakness?

Or, if I understand it correctly, this is just a frame to start drama and it's simply another trick in your sleeve, without anything to do with being beta?

I knew you would ask something along these lines.

Will she think you're a bitch for starting some shit up?

Maybe. Maybe not.

Some girls thrive on the emotional roller coaster, and they need it to feel like they matter to you, and you matter to them.

Others prefer you to be the rock of the relationship, strong and dependable. But as we all know, reliability makes the pussy dry up.

With every move on the chessboard, you risk something to gain something. There are no safe moves. Further, you only have so much time to make moves before the game is over.

The questions you should have asked when you asked about drama
- what situations/girls is it best for
- is it worth it
- what's the alternative

Before you break out any strategy, use any tactic, you have to decide for yourself
1) what is my goal?
2) what will I do for my goal?
3) can I live with what i've done?

For me, if I can sense a girl thrives off drama (and sometimes you can't, I know i've been burned badly), I avoid her.

Don't care how pretty she is, how perfect we might be, how good the sex is, if I have to create some kind of Soap Opera for her to stay in my bed - I'll never be able to sleep soundly.

But sometimes crazy pussy is the best.

WIA

[General Mayhem]

This is a great thread.

We often talk about playing to a girl's emotions, and a lot of guys think that means getting emotional and sensitive yourself, but this thread shows how you can play to a girls emotions without being emotional hardly at all.

You don't have to go out of your way to create drama because the differences between men and women create them naturally, especially today when girls in America are surrounded by supplicating betas and think they can get away with treating guys like shit.

If you are alpha, you will naturally create drama as a byproduct of just doing what you want. It's called being stubborn.

[Kingsley Davis]

Mastering the art of drama is similar to mastering trolling.

[Valhalla]

Julian has a great article on how you could do this

[General Stalin]

It's the great catch 22 of LTR's: girls that are fun, enjoyable, and awesome in bed generally have screws loose upstairs and have a certain amount of maintenance and drama that comes along with it. Girls that are simple, low maintenance, and effortless to handle are generally boring and not very satisfying.

The trick is to keep a girl emotionally engaged. That's all. Fun, sexy women will get bored in this day and age. If you're Mr. Even-keeled 24/7 then your girl is going to long for something new and juicy to sink her teeth into. It's sad and retarded, but it what it is unfortunately.

WIA has it right - best to avoid dramatic bitches regardless of how hot and fun they are. Remember, you will always get comfortable with a girl no matter what. There is always a half-life to relationships where it just becomes a little monotonous and that sexy dime you gf'd up with just be a girl who shits in the same room as you while you shower. Best to save your patience in LTR for a lower maintenance broad.

[WestIndianArchie]

(06-12-2014 02:11 PM)General Stalin Wrote:  

Girls that are simple, low maintenance, and effortless to handle

I don't know how true this has been for you, but that hasn't been the case for me. I've never actually found this girl. I've found chicks that I thought would require low emotional maintenance, so-called strong women, so-called independent women, and have never found them to be as advertised.

Anytime I decide to date someone for "personality" (i.e. a 6), I end up regretting it.

Miss "Easy to Get Along" with, ends up bring her own set of headaches, that are different than Miss "Beautiful Face" or Miss "Body that Won't Quit" or Miss "Suck a golf ball through a garden house".

Hot girl is insecure that she might lose her looks. Mediocre girl is insecure that she might lose me. Conventional pick up theory says that if a girl is insecure about losing her guy, she makes up for it in behavior.

In my experience, she just foists those insecurities on you verbally as opposed to cooking up a good dinner, ironing some shirts, rubbing your back at night.....No it's all , "i'm not good enough for you". She'll whip herself verbally, unless you do something.

Playing ice cold alpha here only feeds her death spiral of insecurity. Going beta, and building her esteem back up, might give her the false-sense of power and she'll think "I can do better, because i've always been better" ...never mind where she got the idea from ...

Indeed even during a pick up, if you've ever tried to bang a slump buster, you might find that they put up EVEN MORE resistance than a chick you actually deem worthy. (I blame/thank? the self esteem movement)

I don't even know anymore. Even if 60% of marriages fail, a proxy for ltr's, that means 40% continue. How does the man stay sane in those situations? That's my Game Holy Grail.

[AnonymousBosch]

(06-12-2014 02:11 PM)General Stalin Wrote:  

WIA has it right - best to avoid dramatic bitches regardless of how hot and fun they are. Remember, you will always get comfortable with a girl no matter what. There is always a half-life to relationships where it just becomes a little monotonous and that sexy dime you gf'd up with just be a girl who shits in the same room as you while you shower. Best to save your patience in LTR for a lower maintenance broad.

There are undramatic bitches out there? Huh.

From my experience relationships, girls don't show their true personalities until they feel comfortable and secure in a relationship, and this is where the LTR drama really starts. Before that, they're pretending to be something they're not just to lure you in.

The higher they perceive your value to be versus theirs, the better-behaved they will be initially, but once you're regularly-tapping her, you'll start seeing Stage 1 passive-aggressive behaviour: little games and statements that are attempts to force your hand and qualify them as your girlfriend.

If you do girlfriend her up, then her ego inflates and she starts thinking you think she's on her level. Now she's her real self. With comfort, comes Stage 2 crap: constantly testing the boundaries of what she can get away with - much like you might reprimand a toddler not to do something, but they'll keep making motions to do it anyway to test your authority.

This is where you argue like a father figure, in masculine ways, and why accusing her of being a brat is a good standby - it highlights the parent-child dynamic for her. Ideally, she's screaming at you, a flurry of emotion, getting her drama fix, and you simply weather it, unmoving. Any response you say is stoic and devastating, and if you compromise for any reason, you make it known it is your decision to do so, not her nagging. Never apologise, she'll eventually come to you, and it will probably involve pussy.

Another advantage for women: drama is socially-advantageous for them, because they get to centre the conversation on them and their drama the next time they're with their girlfriends.

I'm sure some of you guys wonder what the point is, but in some areas the high value women are scarce, so LTR game is the way to go.

[Menace]

All girls require drama. This is what makes them girls. The amount needed, and your ability to deliver it is what varies. So you need to find girls that are basically at the level you're willing to tolerate, but at the same time you need to practice escalating the drama if it doesn't come naturally. If you're very well adjusted, it will initially take conscious effort (much like traditional game); over time it becomes second nature.

One easy method of creating drama is to just accuse them of what they're accusing you of, or what you think they are likely to accuse you of. Sort of negative mirroring. It will not be a rational accusation, but that is the point.

[pheonix500000]

(06-12-2014 04:31 PM)AnonymousBosch Wrote:  

(06-12-2014 02:11 PM)General Stalin Wrote:  

WIA has it right - best to avoid dramatic bitches regardless of how hot and fun they are. Remember, you will always get comfortable with a girl no matter what. There is always a half-life to relationships where it just becomes a little monotonous and that sexy dime you gf'd up with just be a girl who shits in the same room as you while you shower. Best to save your patience in LTR for a lower maintenance broad.

There are undramatic bitches out there? Huh.

From my experience relationships, girls don't show their true personalities until they feel comfortable and secure in a relationship, and this is where the LTR drama really starts. Before that, they're pretending to be something they're not just to lure you in.

The higher they perceive your value to be versus theirs, the better-behaved they will be initially, but once you're regularly-tapping her, you'll start seeing Stage 1 passive-aggressive behaviour: little games and statements that are attempts to force your hand and qualify them as your girlfriend.

If you do girlfriend her up, then her ego inflates and she starts thinking you think she's on her level. Now she's her real self. With comfort, comes Stage 2 crap: constantly testing the boundaries of what she can get away with - much like you might reprimand a toddler not to do something, but they'll keep making motions to do it anyway to test your authority.

This is where you argue like a father figure, in masculine ways, and why accusing her of being a brat is a good standby - it highlights the parent-child dynamic for her. Ideally, she's screaming at you, a flurry of emotion, getting her drama fix, and you simply weather it, unmoving. Any response you say is stoic and devastating, and if you compromise for any reason, you make it known it is your decision to do so, not her nagging. Never apologise, she'll eventually come to you, and it will probably involve pussy.

Another advantage for women: drama is socially-advantageous for them, because they get to centre the conversation on them and their drama the next time they're with their girlfriends.

I'm sure some of you guys wonder what the point is, but in some areas the high value women are scarce, so LTR game is the way to go.

dude you are right but can you expand on how you would do this?

[Sidney Crosby]

I've had a girl try and start a fight with me (I ignored her) only to have her admit later that she did it only so we could have "make-up sex. It didn't happen cause I just ignored her and I was tired and went to sleep, also cause my dick was sore after boning her non stop for a week on vacation.

[Dalaran1991]

So it's basically a women's game once you are in the further stages of a relationship? I can enjoy some drama from time to time, but being constantly shit-tested with drama will explode my head and my rage. Maybe we're better off staying away from the overly-dramatic bitches like WIA said. There's no way you can win a woman's game, especially since she's good at it.

[General Stalin]

Perhaps I conveyed the wrong message. Obviously all girls will show insecurity and bring about drama at one point or another in some form or another - but as you stated WIA, there are different forms based on a girls value and personality.

A girl that is lower, or even perceived lower, value than yourself will be easier to handle. She may stir up drama from dread or feeling unworthy, but this is easy to deal with and usually she will compensate for this by going an extra mile here and there. This opposed to the girl that wants to go out and party with her slutty friends in the city every Friday and tests your trust, or is hungry for your resources 24/7 and get bitchy and demanding when you don't do what she wants is far far less stress.

The last 3 legitimate relationships I was in are perfect examples of this. In chronologically descending order:

Girl #3: A 19-20 y/o alternative-style stripper. Super tight sexy body, awesome in bed, love to have sex all the time, fun and spontaneous, super night owl, down for whatever whenever, and loved to party. Very fun and enjoyable to be with, but was a chronic liar, cheater, drug addict, and a complete whore who eventually cheated on me and was caught red-handed in a huge web of lies. Self-absorbed and pseudo independent tough-bitch. Super narcissistic and reviled in the fact that she has a fucked up life and loved to perpetuate it by making poor decisions. 6 months

Girl #2: 23 y/o tattooed alternative-girl (noticing a pattern here?) tall, sexy athletic body, super sweet and adventurous. Very memorable and fun to be with, loved to have sex 24/7, loud and social, night owl, but was "trying to find herself" lots of baggage (self imposed and perpetuated) and constant drama amongst her friends. Dwelled on her past-relationship and was afraid of commitment and wanted to stay single and basically fuck around. Had lots of beta kiss & make-up fights with her. 6 months.

Girl #3: 19 y/o girl-next-door. Very sweet, a little shy, insecure, but pleasant and comfortable to be with. Loved to be lead and easily directed. Wanted me to stay over her house all time because she was afraid of sleeping alone - almost broke up at one point because she thought I was losing interest in her (I kinda was) and wanted to end it. Got boring and sex wasn't too fun, though it was frequent. Started to gain weight and relationship went stale - thought she was very "safe" faithful and committed. 2 years.

[Mercenary]

This is an excellent short 3 minute video that explains it well.
This woman loves her man who knows how to manage drama the correct way.

[questor70]

That looks like Kristen Bell (aka Anna from Frozen). You can say AWALT if you like, but this is who we're dealing with here.

The dynamic described in the video, the sort of paternal scolding vibe and being dead serious about walking away if she gets out of line, really explains my last relationship.

Most betas are so thirsty for pussy that they will tolerate a lot of conflict for the sake of squeezing out as many bangs as possible. It's not that I've learned to be genuinely alpha as much as I've reevaluated my priorities such that no amount of guaranteed pussy is worth the price of inviting drama into my life. I just have very little capacity to deflect it. It just seeps into my pores and makes me miserable. (I have been in the ER with anxiety attacks due to coping with overall life-stresses. It's no fucking joke to me. Youporn and a tissue is a hell of a lot more appealing than managing female drama in return for the real thing.) But by cutting a woman loose in this way it just makes her think of me as dominant and she'll just lay low and try to boomerang back again when I am genuinely done with her.

Drama cycles like this are really just low-level emotional abuse in my book. That some women get off on it, confuse it for love and romance, is truly sick, IMHO.