[Panteleimon]

Link Here

Quote:

The student, identified only as "John Doe," had sex with his accuser on September 8th, 2013, according to details of the case obtained by the Foundation for Individual Rights in Education. Both Doe and his accuser had been drinking. By several accounts, the sex was consensual. The accuser sent Doe a text message beforehand asking him if he had a condom. She also texted a friend and clearly announced her intention to have sex with Doe.

After that night, the accuser spoke with several Occidental employees, including Danielle Dirks, an assistant professor of sociology. Dirks told the accuser that Doe "fit the profile of other rapists on campus in that he had a high GPA in high school, was his class valedictorian, was on [a sports team], and was 'from a good family.'"

So you do well in school? Must be a rapist.

[The Lizard of Oz]

This incident is a true outrage, but a better title for the thread would be something like "Student Expelled From Occidental College For Consensual Sex".

Here is the full story:

Quote:

The student, identified only as "John Doe," had sex with his accuser on September 8th, 2013, according to details of the case obtained by the Foundation for Individual Rights in Education. Both Doe and his accuser had been drinking. By several accounts, the sex was consensual. The accuser sent Doe a text message beforehand asking him if he had a condom. She also texted a friend and clearly announced her intention to have sex with Doe.

After that night, the accuser spoke with several Occidental employees, including Danielle Dirks, an assistant professor of sociology. Dirks told the accuser that Doe "fit the profile of other rapists on campus in that he had a high GPA in high school, was his class valedictorian, was on [a sports team], and was 'from a good family.'"

A week later, the accuser filed a sexual assault report against Doe.

The Los Angeles Police Department determined that both parties had consented to sex and decided not to charge Doe:

"Witnesses were interviewed and agreed that the victim and suspect were both drunk, however, that they were both willing participants exercising bad judgment …. It would be reasonable for [Doe] to conclude based on their communications and [the accuser’s] actions that, even though she was intoxicated, she could still exercise reasonable judgment."

Occidental College, however, is under pressure to be seen as doing something about sexual assault on campus given the federal investigation into its rape prevention practices, so the college hired attorney Marilou Mirkovich to investigate the matter. Mirkovich concluded that the female student did indeed consent to sex. However, since she was intoxicated, her consent was invalid, according to Mirkovich.

This is a flawed interpretation of Occidental's own policy on consent, which requires students be not merely drunk but actively incapacitated for rape to have occurred, according to FIRE Vice President Robert Shibley.

Indeed, Mirkovich's interpretation makes no sense. If all drunken sex is rape, then Doe and his accuser are both guilty.

"Both parties would be guilty of sexually assaulting one another," Shibley told me in a phone interview.

Occidental is only holding Doe responsible, however. He was found guilty and expelled.

Evil madness.

[Suits]

There is no way to know what the future holds, but currently, in my life planning, I include in my calculations several factors just in case I even decide to have children.

I could only do so, if I could raise them somewhere that they could earn an education, from which they would emerge competitive and free of quasi-legal baggage.

So far, North America does not seem to be a place where I could reasonably assume that this would be a likely outcome. Too much risk.

The big question is, what to give my children instead (if I ever decide to have some)?

I think that entrepreneurship, culminating in a business that my children would enjoy helping me run, would serve that purpose well.

Still, it would be good if my children had a shot at a university education, just as a backup. Any ideas?

[The Lizard of Oz]

Suits, no one can predict the future. All this shit could be over and done with by the time your kids go to college. Or it could be worse than it is now. Who knows?

You can't worry about that. Just live your life and try to make some money. The one thing that never changes is that having money makes things easier for yourself and for your family if you have one, and gives you and them more choices down the line.

[Slick Shimmer]

[xpatplayer]

(06-04-2014 10:33 PM)Suits Wrote:  

There is no way to know what the future holds, but currently, in my life planning, I include in my calculations several factors just in case I even decide to have children.

I could only do so, if I could raise them somewhere that they could earn an education, from which they would emerge competitive and free of quasi-legal baggage.

So far, North America does not seem to be a place where I could reasonably assume that this would be a likely outcome. Too much risk.

The big question is, what to give my children instead (if I ever decide to have some)?

I think that entrepreneurship, culminating in a business that my children would enjoy helping me run, would serve that purpose well.

Still, it would be good if my children had a shot at a university education, just as a backup. Any ideas?

If you have sons, give them a primer on how to avoid false-rape allegations. Its nearly impossible to get one if you play your cards right. If you have daughters, tell them not to get piss-drunk at college.

[ddjembe mutombo]

(06-04-2014 10:07 PM)Lumbajac Wrote:  

Link Here

Quote:

The student, identified only as "John Doe," had sex with his accuser on September 8th, 2013, according to details of the case obtained by the Foundation for Individual Rights in Education. Both Doe and his accuser had been drinking. By several accounts, the sex was consensual. The accuser sent Doe a text message beforehand asking him if he had a condom. She also texted a friend and clearly announced her intention to have sex with Doe.

After that night, the accuser spoke with several Occidental employees, including Danielle Dirks, an assistant professor of sociology. Dirks told the accuser that Doe "fit the profile of other rapists on campus in that he had a high GPA in high school, was his class valedictorian, was on [a sports team], and was 'from a good family.'"

So you do well in school? Must be a rapist.

Hilarious. Those quotes from the sociology assistant professor have to be fabricated. They are just too perfect.

[Comte De St. Germain]

Going to college after this summer. I need tips on how to avoid false rape allegations. I've read up on some stuff, but any information even if I heard it already would be great.

[Drazen]

Occidental is such a weird school. Its in LA, out by Eagle Rock/Silverlake, yet I really don't know much about it or the people there. Its pretty insular it seems, probably cult-like in some fashions.

This is the same one where they vowed to investigate every sexual assault submitted anonymously, and we all had a good time last summer.

[ddjembe mutombo]

(06-04-2014 11:05 PM)hwuzhere Wrote:  

Going to college after this summer. I need tips on how to avoid false rape allegations. I've read up on some stuff, but any information even if I heard it already would be great.

The dorms can be a bad place to bang. This mainly comes down to the volume of people that live in a tight space. The off-campus apartment complexes are just as bad of an idea as the dorms. Basically any place with a communal hallway with a lot of possible traffic is not ideal. This isn't because you are trying to hide something; it is because most of these people won't know they are being baited if any interrogation occurs.

The idea place is an off-campus house. When I was in college, a random girl rolled up to our house while we were having some drinks on our porch. She started making moves on my roommate and he took her upstairs to bed her. She ended up passing out in his bed and left the next morning. A couple weeks later she rolled back up to our house when we were on the porch grilling. She asked if she has slept over a couple weeks ago and we all just said something along the lines of "no, must have been some other house". We didn't know what she wanted from that question, but we weren't giving it to her. By all accounts in the house she was the one to have initiated sex.

Just remember that life isn't about getting your dick wet. It's nice, but make your bang decisions wisely. If you get an erie feeling the girl may be a little too drunk then just don't go through with it. Too many college girls are being fed a bunch of bullshit about what rape is. Understand that the rules are not in your favor and adjust accordingly.

[Bushido]

(06-04-2014 10:44 PM)xpatplayer Wrote:  

If you have sons, give them a primer on how to avoid false-rape allegations. Its nearly impossible to get one if you play your cards right.

So what would the advice be? "Don't have sex with fellow co-eds unless you have a written contract"? Because that is how bad it is getting on both sides of the Pond.

[Beyond Borders]

^ Fortunately, there are more than two sides to the pond.

[eradicator]

(06-05-2014 12:22 AM)dreambig Wrote:  

So what would the advice be? "Don't have sex with fellow co-eds unless you have a written contract"? Because that is how bad it is getting on both sides of the Pond.

You can, for starters, cover your ass somewhat by sending a morning after text saying you had a great time etc.

[BadgerHut]

(06-04-2014 11:05 PM)hwuzhere Wrote:  

Going to college after this summer. I need tips on how to avoid false rape allegations. I've read up on some stuff, but any information even if I heard it already would be great.

There's no perfect answer, but like any other activity with some risk, there are measures you can take to stay safe while getting it on.

Danger&Play had a great post on this: http://www.dangerandplay.com/2011/09/21/...rape-case/

Main points:
* Tape it/film it if possible. Know the rules of your state, they are on the Internet - I think most are "one-party" meaning you can record without notifying the other person. I met MikeCF at one of his meetups and we talked about this. He told me that even if the recording is obtained "illegally" it can still be used to impeach a witness (IOW to show they had perjured themselves).
* Send a nonjudgmental "I had fun" text the next day so you can get an enthusiastic response - also use an app that backs up your text messages to a cloud or something.
* Take her out for breakfast, be seen in public together.
* Do NOT talk to the police (or school administrators); if someone from the fuzz approaches you, refuse to talk to them, and retain a defense attorney immediately.

Keep in mind also the rationales for false rape accusations that were documented by a criminal psychologist (can't find the source right now):
* To seek attention
* To act out revenge
* To provide alibi for illicit sex (cheating on a boyfriend, or breaking social mores that would bring public shame)

Don't give a girl any reason for any of these points. Don't kick her out of bed, let her sleep over and give her some beta game to soothe the attention need and head off any revenge instincts. (Personally I enjoy the sleeping over and the morning bagel so don't feel like you're a hopeless beta if you do too.)

Don't bang other guys' girlfriends/wives, ministers' daughters, town prudes or whoever else would have a reason to not want people knowing she's banging around. If you do a good job with your game in constructing the "secret world," she'll know you aren't going to blab it all over town and she'll feel better about the sex you have and not feel the need to reframe it as unwanted.

Don't think that some fast-talking sex-positive feminist chick is going to be safe for you - a lot of them are nuts. Frankly, a lot of people in college are nuts, and even though there's tons of free poon on a platter, it behooves you to be smart about who you pursue and avoid riskier cases.

If that means passing up some risky bangs, so be it - there's more to life than another notch, especially when that notch entails a risk of jail.

[InternationalPlayboy]

(06-04-2014 11:18 PM)Drazen Wrote:  

Occidental is such a weird school. Its in LA, out by Eagle Rock/Silverlake, yet I really don't know much about it or the people there. Its pretty insular it seems, probably cult-like in some fashions.

This is the same one where they vowed to investigate every sexual assault submitted anonymously, and we all had a good time last summer.

This. Moral of the story, don't go to some liberal hippy private school. Why anyone would pay $50,000+ a year to go to college (unless its an elite private school) boggles me.

Just go to a public school, where they would need much more then just drunk sex to expel you.

[EisenBarde]

Stay away from drunk chicks, nothing good will come of it.

Precedent has been made, the kangaroo courts are in sessions, the cards are stacked against you.

If she wont come over to your place sober, your game needs work, anyway.

[R Smoov]

(06-04-2014 10:07 PM)Lumbajac Wrote:  

After that night, the accuser spoke with several Occidental employees, including Danielle Dirks, an assistant professor of sociology. Dirks told the accuser that Doe "fit the profile of other rapists on campus in that he had a high GPA in high school, was his class valedictorian, was on [a sports team], and was 'from a good family.'"

Shit ya'll I might have to lay low a couple of weeks. I'm now a rapist.

[Foolsgo1d]

Quote:

including Danielle Dirks, an assistant professor of sociology. Dirks told the accuser that Doe "fit the profile of other rapists on campus in that he had a high GPA in high school, was his class valedictorian, was on [a sports team], and was 'from a good family.'"

More evidence that WKs are not only dangerous to us but to the thinking of women.

Perhaps this guy did not give her enough reassurance after the act and she wanted to talk to someone about it. Mr WK here who acts as a protective shield is jealous and turns her against him.

Job done.


I would bet 1000 of my British pounds that this professor hates men with a passion.

[kosko]

John Doe is going to get a lot of dough from this.

If he smart he's already been talking to a lawyer.

[Foolsgo1d]

WHoops, I read it as Daniel and not Danielle. A woman out to destroy a young mans life, not surprising!

[awkward]

I'm not a lawyer, but perhaps a good strategy may be after every drunken encounter to file a complaint to your college (not police) stating that you were drunk (and maybe possibly drugged) and were raped by a female, but you are not sure who it was. If you are later accused of rape - well, you were the first to file charges, and your case may be (perceived as) stronger.

[tylerdurden1993]

(06-04-2014 11:05 PM)hwuzhere Wrote:  

Going to college after this summer. I need tips on how to avoid false rape allegations. I've read up on some stuff, but any information even if I heard it already would be great.

If the US is similar to the UK you should be fine.

Its just about using common sense to not allow for these situations to occur, i.e. if you pull a girl and she's been sick/too drunk just ditch her she'll probably just throw up/pass out in your room anyway.

I've found most girls bring you back to theirs anyway especially in a SNL from a club/party. So as long as you don't go full asshole and just leave as soon as your done/sneak out they won't harbour negative feelings.

If you do want to leave after your done get a "fake call" and pretend one of your guys got into a fight and needs your help. Also if you don't want to see her again give her a fake number.

Also here in the UK there's a ~3% conviction rate for rape which shows that at least in theory the courts and juries are judging the accused as innocent until proven guilty which is what is needed in these situations.

[xpatplayer]

(06-05-2014 12:22 AM)dreambig Wrote:  

(06-04-2014 10:44 PM)xpatplayer Wrote:  

If you have sons, give them a primer on how to avoid false-rape allegations. Its nearly impossible to get one if you play your cards right.

So what would the advice be? "Don't have sex with fellow co-eds unless you have a written contract"? Because that is how bad it is getting on both sides of the Pond.

1. Don't bang a super-drunk girl. If she's tipsy, great. If she's saying stupid shit, great. If she's having trouble balancing herself, don't do it.

2. Don't "ask for consent" until it comes to the bang. When it does, tell her something on the lines of "I know you want me inside you". The goal is to get a "Yes". It will be hard for her to deny this.

3. Get the morning after text and don't delete it until you graduate.

4. Screen for craziness. Even if she's the most beautiful girl you have ever seen, don't bang her if she shows signs of emotional imbalance. From what I've seen, most false-rape accusers tend to be bipolar. Its easy to spot. http://www.webmd.com/bipolar-disorder/bi...-recognize (don't bang any girls who're either euphoric or sad)

I have a close friend who got false-rape charges dropped by the University's honor board. I can ask him for some advice and drop a post on how to beat the system soon.

[MikeCF]

(06-05-2014 09:13 AM)tylerdurden1993 Wrote:  

Also here in the UK there's a ~3% conviction rate for rape which shows that at least in theory the courts and juries are judging the accused as innocent until proven guilty which is what is needed in these situations.

This is a false stat feminists use to "prove" that rape is the most underreported and under-enforced crime.

Here's how they come up with that 3% number.

There are 100 rapes for every 10 that is reported.

Only 5 of reported rapes go to trial.

Of those 5, only 3 men are convicted.

Therefore, there is only a 3% conviction rate for rape.

(The math doesn't work out perfectly to 3%, but you get the point.)

To know the actual conviction rate for rape, you need to look at

Indictments
_________
Convictions

Feminists say you should look at

Rape culture/1 in 4 women are raped
_______
Convictions



Make sense?

[kosko]

...