[Saladin]

I know that there are quite a few guys like me here who have discovered game a few months back. It has been quite a struggle for me but I see slow and steady improvements in myself. My biggest improvements have been in my inner game. My world view has been shattered and rebuilt again and again.

However I could not have done it on my own. My two boys who went into this journey with me with open minds have motivated and helped me. We feed off each other and give advice. Sometimes we fight and then we make up. Its often that I come home after a bad day with them and we have a deep talk that just rebuilds my perception. For example when I started out I was afraid of eye contact with girls or other people who were walking down a street. I was fine with looking into the girls eyes while talking with her but the subconscious wouldn't let me look into a girls eyes when I was walking down the street. My subconsciousness thought this was rude and I had trouble shaking it. When we came home and I told them about that they explained that nothing bad ever comes out of eye contact. My friend explain how women will only respect you for it and even if they don't want your attention they will still respect your balls. Its a win win situation.

Today, I found myself making eye contact with girls without shame. Its as if the high stress of yesterday and the concept of eye contact just snapped together and imprinted itself in my brain. Its just incredible how quickly this change happened. Each passing week I give less of a shit about what how I am supposed to act according to social conditioning.

This is why I think having a couple of true friends who are dedicated to improving themselves with you can be really helpful. Doing this on my own would have been so much harder and the learning curve would have been much longer. The second thing I got is that your mind absorbs new concepts best when its stressed out. Friends can help push each other and provide feedback which can be useful to us new guys starting out.

[FretDancer]

You're very lucky to have buddies who are determined and comitted to improve their game and inner game overall, but also help each other and improve collectively. I don't have that privilege myself, and there was once a time I thought that I needed something like that in order to succeed but that thought is long gone

[Khaleth]

Ironically I've always found the best wingman is a woman! Haha Its easy social proof and if you two are pretty tight she usually goes out of her way to get you laid...

[Moma]

(02-14-2011 12:23 AM)Khaleth Wrote:  

Ironically I've always found the best wingman is a woman! Haha Its easy social proof and if you two are pretty tight she usually goes out of her way to get you laid...

Female wingmen often get jealous. I have a friend of mine who I have never touched (I am not attracted to her but she has a great personality and has been there for me in times of difficulty).
We were supposed to either go to Latin America or one of the Caribbean islands together for a week. I told her if I go, I gotta go somewhere where there's gonna be fcuking. I'll hang with her in the day, chill at the beach, eat, get drunk whatever..but nighttime comes and I'll be a different animal.

She started talking about..why are you so obsessed with punani..what's wrong with you?

So I made the decision to roll dolo.

[MiXX]

I agree with Moma - I have several platonic girlfriends and when we go out, they are definitely social proof, but they end up cock-blocking me more than helping me as every woman I talk to is a "slut" in her eyes.

Remember playas, she is still a woman!! Regardless if she is just your wing. Women will always sympathize for other women they feel are being played for sex. It's like part of "the girl code".

I have gone out with beautiful (and average looking) female wings before - they are great for opening sets, but ultimately get in your way of a SNL or ONS.

The best scenario is just 1 wing who is as good (or better) at seducing women as you.

The best women to have around you, is women who know they want to fuck you, and have to compete for your attention.

Mixx

[Andreas]

My subconcious mind grew different.I dont need a wingman.I learn to deal with it by myself when it comes to approaching or practicing.When i told my friends about game they couldn't be bothered to even take a look at a dictionary definition so when i go out with my friends and see beautiful women i approach by myself. I learn that im more confident doing myself because there is nothing that i should be afraid to screw up with a partner.It forces me to be 100% me.

[Saladin]

(02-14-2011 12:06 PM)Andreas Wrote:  

My subconcious mind grew different.I dont need a wingman.I learn to deal with it by myself when it comes to approaching or practicing.When i told my friends about game they couldn't be bothered to even take a look at a dictionary definition so when i go out with my friends and see beautiful women i approach by myself. I learn that im more confident doing myself because there is nothing that i should be afraid to screw up with a partner.It forces me to be 100% me.

True, that approach works too. I think the biggest advantage with wingmen who you are tight with is that they can help you improve and critique your approach. The motivation is also important is I would have never gone downtown with a hour long commute in -20 weather each weekend if we didn't keep pushing each other to go.

[Andreas]

yeah but one big disadvantage is if he tries to be the Alpha male of your group and that is worrying.I get motivated when i any of my friends are there.I just tell them i will approach the woman and i do it. There is a greater percentage of actually implementing something when shared with a close person

[Tommy]

Alpha wingmen can be good but not if he is trying to get all the girls at once, that's ridicilous.

[Khaleth]

Moma/Mixx- I usually only go out to clubs/bars to have a good time and I'm more comfortable hanging out with women than men so thats probably why I usually go with the wingwoman. I hear what you guys are saying though and I have had them cockblock me because she didn't wanna see me with some "slut". I think solo is the way to go once your comfortable with your level of game and thats usually the way I go if I'm just going out to get laid.

Toronto Kid- I think a wingman is huge if you're going on a huge quest like that! Haha At least for the moral support! Where are you commuting from? Oshawa? Oakville?

[K-man]

A good wingman is a great resource - but when there isn't one, better to roll solo. The best ways to roll, in descending order:
1. With a seasoned wingman
2. Solo
3. With friends who got no game
4. With a bunch of douchebags, ordering bottle service.

[Saladin]

(02-14-2011 12:06 PM)Andreas Wrote:  

My subconcious mind grew different.I dont need a wingman.I learn to deal with it by myself when it comes to approaching or practicing.When i told my friends about game they couldn't be bothered to even take a look at a dictionary definition so when i go out with my friends and see beautiful women i approach by myself. I learn that im more confident doing myself because there is nothing that i should be afraid to screw up with a partner.It forces me to be 100% me.

So true. Lately I've gone out a few times on my own. I'm using days where my boys aren't down to sarge as days to train myself when I'm the only one there. Its a lot harder but its worth it.

I would say a good mix of going out alone and with friends is good. You can have your friends help troubleshoot your approaches when they are there with you but the same time going out alone truly makes you rely on yourself. It forces you to approach even if you don't have your friends there to make you feel safe.

[flashbang]

My situation is that my best friend is an absolute natural who makes it look easy. I´ve tried to talk game to him but he scoffs at the mere mention of it and says it all boils down to "just be yourself". We did wingman each other on occasion but it backfires because the girls always end up liking him more and when he´s not around, asking questions about him. All other friends apart from this guy are absolute rubbish with girls so I´ve had to adapt by making do without a wingman. At this point I feel much more comfortable alone unless the wing knows what heś doing. When it comes to night game I like to have a wingman though as the loud clubs and whole drinking mentality is boring when you´re alone. I´d love to team up with some guys from the forum somewhere in Europe so we can improve together. Did so recently with a forum member and struck a good connection. It ś very comforting to meet people who also game because you know they´re in the same boat. Wing or no wing, success is a foregone conclusion!

[Samseau]

I find rolling with wings who have poor game is okay if they are willing to learn. In fact, it can be pretty helpful because you can throw them on grenades and other obstacles as they come up.

[amity]

my two main wings are starting to become more of a liability of late
one doesn't show much any more and the other guy has some serious family issues going on and has been sucking the life outta me lately when we go out, the fact that he doesn't drink isn't helping
thing is, this guy is dynamite when he's on form, and he's a long standing buddy, so i can't just kick him to the kerb, but am starting to lose patience
i'm in a relationship myself at the moment, so am not really looking to play the field, but still i want to keep myself sharp, should anything happen and I need to jump back into the field
any ideas?
i'm thinking that solo day game (coffee shops/galleries/museums/tourist attractions, etc) and maybe even some solo night game are the way to go

[htbrkid]

Wingmen aka Cockblockers.

[pitt]

My game skills has boosted drastically thanks to these two wingmen that used to run with me 24/7. I used to see these cats like the most confident cats in the planet but after a while, i became even more confident than them.

Having a wingman or not having one doesnt make much difference to me, having a strong wingman just makes you look more interested but sometimes is better to run solo. Some girls are more keen to come to your house soon as you meet them if you are solo. How many times me and my homies had to leave each other soon as we met a girl and she was on to come home..well that happened till we decided that we could share these hoes.

[Menace]

This is something I am wondering about. I was reading Steve Jobs's biography and in there he meets this super confident, chill dude at college, even more confident than Jobs. And this guys personality and confidence begins to rub off on Jobs. I am beginning to suspect that in the area of game, I may not be able to "get good" all on my own, and that rolling with someone who thinks like the guys here do would be really beneficial.

[pitt]

Well you can get better on your own but your game would speed up and come stronger if you had a strong player rolling with you. However, if you are going to be rolling with a strong player than you need to hold some level of coolness. A strong player wouldnt roll with a total beginner.

[Menace]

I wouldn't blame them for not wanting to roll with a beginner. I actually have a source of pussy at the moment that I got through game, but my huge weakness is approaching. It's not the rejection either. It's just the straight up evolutionary adaptation to not approaching strangers that Roosh talks about in Day Bang. I'm quite confident that I'm cool enough, socially aware enough, and have a shit load going for me, but failure to approach is what is killing me. It's totally irrational and frustrating.

[Easy E]

Going out with a wingman is also more fun, at least if the dude is not a total fuckup. As much as guys on here pump up going solo, I find it is not as fun as going out with a wing or crew.

[el mechanico]

(11-02-2011 06:55 PM)Easy E Wrote:  

Going out with a wingman is also more fun, at least if the dude is not a total fuckup. As much as guys on here pump up going solo, I find it is not as fun as going out with a wing or crew.

You're right it's more fun but, when you have to do ALL the work and compensate for all the mistakes it comes down to work if you want to get laid.

I'm going dolo tonight. My odds are about 80% if I invite a friend they drop to 20.

Now a good wing is different. The only problem is logistics. I feel bad about leaving sometimes. When it's heats up you have to go. Some dudes just don't get that.