[RawGod]

I'm half Irish, can I get reparations from the English? I guess the English half of me can pay it from the money I get from the Norman reparations.

[mikado]

(06-03-2014 10:45 PM)Samseau Wrote:  

Will the Muslims give reparations to the Christians they sacked over the last 1300 years?

Will the Christians give reparation to the muslims they killed en masse during the Crusades, in Irak/Iran etc, during the last 1300 years?

[El Chinito loco]

Once all the reparations are shuffled around the world for every historical grievance everyone winds up with less than the same amount they started out with because only the banks prospered for all the usury, exchange rates, and overhead fees they can charge for each transaction.

[Que enspastic]

Chance of this thread going rapidly downhill if it goes beyond 3 pages : 80%

[InternationalPlayboy]

(06-04-2014 01:11 AM)darklightdispatch Wrote:  

Multi-culturalism doesn't work or even make sense, really. A culture is defined as much by what it is not as what it is. You can't have a genuine multi-culture any more than you can have a multi-gendered person.

All the different European groups in the U.S. got along (eventually) because of relatively similar appearance, customs and traditions. I don't see the majority of black Americans wanting to become whites with dark skin, which is what the liberal plan essentially is (affirmative action, employment quotas.) Assimilating them into mainstream whiteness. Instead of government and academia trying to mush all the disparate groups in the U.S. into one big mess, we should let tribalism happen. Encourage as much group independence as possible.

With things the way they are now, the better-performing groups will always feel animosity towards having to support the less successful ones. And the less successful will always feel envious and hateful towards those they perceive as having more of the pie.

There's no way to ensure that everyone gets an equal outcome without total government intervention in every aspect of life (which would destroy productivity and, consequently, the flow money needed to keep the project going.)

I know it's not going to happen, but the best thing would be to let each group succeed or fail on its own merits. Fuck institutionalized togetherness. If that means breaking the country up into different ethnic states, I say go for it.

Highly controlled immigration works well in any society. I'm all for welcoming educated people who can contribute their talents from Day 1. The problem is the high number of asylum / illegal immigrants in Europe. Which is baffling since most countries don't share any border with a 3rd world country. The politicians really screwed their country up.

I think if you look at all the legal, non-forced immigration, most of them are doing well, particularly those who came in the last few decades. Mostly white collared, H1B / Investment visa immigrants, bringing all their money to the US.

Back in the day it was irish, then italians, then asians, etc. Everyone assimilates at some point, generations down. Again, this is for legal immigration not including slavery / illegal border hopping from mexico.

[N°6]

(06-04-2014 01:11 AM)RawGod Wrote:  

I'm half Irish, can I get reparations from the English? I guess the English half of me can pay it from the money I get from the Norman reparations.

Then the English will pass on the bill to the Normans but is their head office in Normandy or Scandinavia these days?

Or the Irish could sue the Holy See for blessing Henry II's Norman invasion.

Then the Welsh could sue the Irish for their slave raids and kidnapping St Patrick.

[Jukes]

At this point people are making up anything about how to improve black Americans. An easy solution is follow the model of our ancestors who actually strive in those times despite heavy racism. Or copy Chinatown or any other Little insert country. Reparations will be nothing but an extreme version of welfare for poor people or bonus to the upper middle class. For every one person or family using it the right way, there will be 1,000 abusing it. Also it will open a gateway. America will have to paid Irish, Native Americans, Mexicans, and Chinese as well because everyone love forgetting about everyone' s suffering.

[darklightdispatch]

(06-04-2014 07:22 AM)InternationalPlayboy Wrote:  

Back in the day it was irish, then italians, then asians, etc. Everyone assimilates at some point, generations down. Again, this is for legal immigration not including slavery / illegal border hopping from mexico.

Black Americans (which the reparations article was about) don't and -- I think it's fair to predict -- won't assimilate. Not that I think they should....but, good or bad, it's not going to happen.

Regarding immigration in general, conditions today are fundamentally different than they were in the past. It used to be an expectation, prior to the mid-20th century, that assimilation would be actively and aggressively engaged in. For instance, many European immigrants during the Ellis Island era were forced to change their name to something that sounded more American (i.e. English.) Today, the government makes forms in countless different languages. It's a huge shift.

We now have an ideology of anti-assimilation promoted by academia and the left. New immigrants are taught to, at best, have mixed feelings about integrating into mainstream, English-speaking culture. This idea -- that assimilation is a bad thing to be avoided -- didn't even exist when all those Irish, Italians, Germans, Chinese and others came over 100+ years ago.

Adding to the problem: is there even an American culture to assimilate into anymore? I suspect there really was 100 years ago, but what is there now? There's TV and Hollywood, yeah. White people have white guilt and endless sorts of privilege to atone for. Every other group has its victim status identity politics.

Mainstream American culture, whatever is left of it, was predominantly derived from white culture. Whites were nearly 90% of the U.S. population through the 1960s.

These days, even white people (at least in big urban centers) aren't too enthusiastic about being white and don't really view it as being anything culturally. Who wants to assimilate into that?

[mikado]

Great, another race/religion thread.

[lurker]

We've been waiting on reparations from those goddamn Egyptians for 4,000 years. It's only right.

[xpatplayer]

Its a thread about reparations, not immigration. Please stick to the topic. I will report anyone that makes this a thread about immigration or any other racial/ controversial topic.

If you have an opinion about reparations (already a racial and controversial topic), no matter what it is, please post here. If you have an opinion about immigration-related reparations, please post that as well. If you have an opinion about immigration that isn't related to reparations, please post it in an immigration thread. The best threads in this forum are focused and aren't derailed by other topic.

This thread isn't about how multiculturalism is evil. It has a lot of potential, so please don't derail it.

[runsonmagic]

My ancestors came to America after the civil war and built your railroads.

Why should I have to pay for something even my grandfathers had no part in?

[Yatagan]

Will the descendants of African slave merchants in west Africa have to pay reparations too?

[Samseau]

When will the Romans pay reparations to the Carthaginians?

[Dr. Howard]

I dont' understand what the basis for reparations are? Some explanation would be helpful. Indian reparations I get the basis for, settlers came in and took land, some of which was adopted through shady treaties or acts of the US government.

Why would americans have to pay reparations to slaves, or their decedents? The slave traders were the people doing the actual abducting in africa and then brokering the people here. The american's were just buying people being marketed to them as slaves, there weren't these southern gentleman lassoing people on the plains of africa to bring home to their plantations. Slave traders were the exploiters, slave buyers paid for the 'resource'

By the same logic you could argue that every consumer that has bought a 'blood diamond' or anything made in a sweatshop should be liable to the factory workers or child miners for reparations instead of the actual factory owner or mining operation owner.

[xpatplayer]

(06-04-2014 11:23 AM)Dr. Howard Wrote:  

I dont' understand what the basis for reparations are? Some explanation would be helpful. Indian reparations I get the basis for, settlers came in and took land, some of which was adopted through shady treaties or acts of the US government.

Why would americans have to pay reparations to slaves, or their decedents? The slave traders were the people doing the actual abducting in africa and then brokering the people here. The american's were just buying people being marketed to them as slaves, there weren't these southern gentleman lassoing people on the plains of africa to bring home to their plantations. Slave traders were the exploiters, slave buyers paid for the 'resource'

By the same logic you could argue that every consumer that has bought a 'blood diamond' or anything made in a sweatshop should be liable to the factory workers or child miners for reparations instead of the actual factory owner or mining operation owner.

Former slave-owners paying reparations to their former slaves would make sense in the immediate aftermath of the Civil War. But why should an ethnic group composed of the descendants of said slaves be the immediate beneficiaries of these reparations?

Another argument is that Jim Crow-era laws discriminated against Colored Americans, leading to a loss of economic opportunity. If the states that allowed these laws to exist had to pay reparations to them in the 1960s, it would be justified. But why would they pay reparations to the grandchildren and great-grandchildren of the oppressed? I really don't understand their logic.

[Truth Teller]

(06-04-2014 10:49 AM)runsonmagic Wrote:  

My ancestors came to America after the civil war and built your railroads.

Why should I have to pay for something even my grandfathers had no part in?

How do you determine who pays reparations? Is it all whites, or the government (i.e. everyone)? Do all blacks receive reparations, even the ones who immigrated here, or is it only the ones who descend from slaves?

What about discrimination against Hispanics and Asians? Do they get reparations as well, or is it only for blacks?

This is why the whole reparations argument is bullshit.

[Hotwheels]

My ancestors are all from the Upper Midwest, some of whom fought to end slavery in the Civil War.

I think my family has done it's part as far as reparations go.

[EisenBarde]

When you provide value, the real way to offer it to others is to invite them to the table.

Liberals feel very guilty about race relations because they flee the neighborhood whenever enough Blacks start moving in.

[Sp5]

(06-03-2014 10:45 PM)Samseau Wrote:  

Will the Muslims give reparations to the Christians they sacked over the last 1300 years?

The Christians got their reparations from the Muslims, in spades.

It was called "colonialism."