[metalhaze]

it's called being egotistically indifferent. check out modeone:let the women know what you're really thinking

[jfree]

Unlike some of you guys, the real secret for me was not the all out pursuit for a fuck (obviously I wanted that especially in the beginning) or not giving a fuck (I really really wanted to fuck especially in the beginning), but figuring out a way of "playing" the game which fit me and was "fun" while still producing results however slowly. Back then there really wasn't the kind of gathering of ideas available today so focused on pickup. At least none that I knew of.

Being originally shy, socializing was a real problem for me. Unfortunately it wasn't until college (late 80's early 90s) that I realized that I absolutely needed to do something about gaming girls. So besides dedicating myself to a workout regimen, I started with the nerdy, socially awkward groups which I naturally fit in to. I just made sure that there were at least some girls in it. Typically, the girls were also nerdy awkward types too but there were a couple of cute/sexy exceptions. Of course, I always made sure to do most of my socializing with absolutely any of the girls in the groups. After a while, I was very surprised how adventurous and social they can be when they (and I) felt comfortable. Overall, we had a blast. Over my freshmen year, I gradually adjusted both my mind and tuned my game so that I enjoyed the process even more which, in turn, allowed me to keep playing...and building some skill and confidence.

Over the summer and the next year, I got involved with the techno rave alternative party crowd through a few of the girls I hung with. The alternative crowd in the early 90's, where I was, meant alot of gays and lesbians (outcasts in their own way but very cool and fun) along with a eye opening amount of open minded hot girls doing E and some infrequently doing pot. Fortunately, this was in coastal California so the girls were actually quite hot not just relatively.

I got a few things out of that experience.
1. I prefer open minded people.
2. I can have a blast with gays, lesbians, and most importantly, hot girls especially on E (though I did not like doing pot at all especially the day after...so blah).
3. I'm definitely not gay though a lot of gays guys are very cool and fun.
4. I really like sex, gay men really like sex, lesbians really like sex....and the best one, hot girls really like sex too... even with an oddly geeky yet cute and fit guy like me at the time. Real eye opener.

The next step was to push myself and expand into couple of random activity groups and eventually day game. I have to say, day game didn't necessarily come smooth but I had enough enjoyment and reward from it to keep going. I never enjoyed the bar/club scene even back then so I did not do much of that. Again, the progression was more "natural" since I had lots of experiences that I learned from by then. Of course, each change, I had to adjust and tune my game. Overall, this may not necessarily be the fastest way or the way to get the most unique lays initially. But, for me, the numbers came naturally the longer and better I played in my niche way. This only happened because I enjoyed the process which meant I stuck to it. I think calling this a game is really great way to look at it.

Another way to look at it, watch group of very young kids play games...like tag, there are moments where they are so engrossed in taking turns chasing each other, they lose themselves. And in those moments, they can seem so happy, even have moments of pure joy. Over time, they "naturally" get better at catching and evading. If you watch closer, you'd realize that their joy comes not just from momentary "winning"...it is mostly in the playing... in doing something at that moment they love. It's like that for me except my games, such as swooping girls, typically involve more investment and nuance and can have the ability to alter me even more profoundly. So the more you play and tune and internalize the behavior, the more "natural" it becomes.

It's funny, but I actually had alot of fun playing tag with couple of the adult young women I dated. I can almost imagine how much fun those kids are having...of course our version always ended sexually. I really like it when they chase me. Too bad most girls feel too "mature" to really get into it.

[Mystik]

(02-02-2011 06:30 PM)metalhaze Wrote:  

it's called being egotistically indifferent. check out modeone:let the women know what you're really thinking

OR what the Buddhists call "Emotionally unattached to the outcome." Take the feedback to improve yourself but don't get worked up about it.

[jfree]

One of the things I learned about myself as I got older, playing and tuning my game over the years is this. Fucking a girl who I physically AND mentally desire AND who cares for me back is a much richer experience for me by far than empty sex.

I love that look of infatuation they have during sex when they are into you...you can almost do no wrong. I love how receptive they are and how there is no buyers remorse afterwards. So now I prefer a couple of concurrent affairs in different countries over ONS. New affairs happen naturally if you set up your life in a way where you meet them. And old affairs end naturally too so I can be choosy this way; quality over quantity. Affairs with older guys tend to be a phase for hot smart and open minded young girls anyways. If not, eventually they stop being young and usually want something more permanent which ends the affair. You just have to be clear that the affair is a phase in their life (not that some of them still don't hope for more - especially the special ones).

Overall, I love life and feel pretty fortunate. In particular, I'm lucky in that I've learned to play pretty well the financial game of my choosing. I'm lucky to be decent at the game of living, traveling, hanging, and learning; quite lucky to have kept the choice to play the game of romantic lust with a continuing list of physically and intellectually desirable young women; and finally very lucky to play the good provider and guide game for my kids of whom their amazing mother is quite liberal because ultimately she is secure in herself (and open minded). And if she ever feels that she does not want me in her life, I'm happy to give her half, she definitely earned it.

I think, if you see what we do metaphorically like games (some serious some not so), then you can appreciate at least 3 things.

1. Unless you're dead (or retarded), you can always play again.
2. You can always change your playstyle or your role.
3. You can always play something else or even adjust the rules.

[Mystik]

Another thing I want to add here is the practice of "suppression of emotions."

When I heard about this concept or something similar I started judging my emotional responses and started suppressing them. That is not the same as "not giving a fuck".

For instance if I am talking to a hot girl and I am concerned about blowing it with her then I will start to feel that nervousness and then the thought process is something like this "wait this is being emotionally attached to the outcome, damn this emotion needs to stop, suppress, suppress, can't suppress, oh shit, now I am nervous about not being able to control my emotions and then there is a new emotion and then this shit spirals out of control."

The best thing to do here is not to judge your emotional responses and just allow them to come up and pass through. After all emotions are just chemical and electrical reactions in the body and they go away after some time. Like everything, the more you practice this the better you get at it. But unfortunately, its easier said than done.

That is why all these PUAs tell you to approach as many women as possible because once you get rejected you lose that fear and realize that its not a big deal and hence you are not attached to the end result. You do this enough and you will be completely neutral. So, this is unconsciously letting go of the attachments.

Hope this makes sense

[CJ]

(01-31-2011 04:58 PM)kickboxer Wrote:  

I started talking to them about that. I learned that she likes it in the butt.

This is definitely an important thing to find out about a girl as early as possible!

[G Trooper]

Props to G Manifesto, this is some inspiring shit, you speak the truth!

Not giving a fuck = key
Showing up suited down = key

My boy Mixx is a prime example, in every interaction with women it's clear as crystal that he does not give a fuck at all.

Fuck I love game haha.

[oldnemesis]

(02-02-2011 03:44 PM)hydrogonian Wrote:  

First, its the indirect feminine culture (you have an easy comparison with Russia being the polar opposite). Its just way to much of a hassle to try and get laid for anything but the most worthy or easy of women. At least when running socially acceptable somewhat indirect game. Its boring to talk to most, as most aren't that interesting. They aren't bad either. Just average, flawed cookie cutter women. Granted, the ones that are above average can make it worth it, sort of. But the socializing that is necessary before the lay, with average women, gets repetitive and tiresome.

The "tiresome" part is golden as it describes exactly how I feel. It feels like following a specific boring protocol to get some specific and equally boring results. It is hard even to justify it to myself as practicing English, as you're repeating same or similar things again and again.

Other things I'd add here is a different cultural barrier. Most girls around here don't get a second look from me. Not because they're fat or ugly, but because the way they dress up in a sloppy flabby clothes. My brain simply does not recognize a person in sweatpants and a hooded shirt as a female worthy any sexual attention at all, no matter how cute she looks otherwise. It is just a "person" of abstract gender which may be useful to discuss the latest IRS regulation or commodity markets, but for nothing else.

Now if you combine it with a "$10,000 sandwich" dilemma, when a typical just above average chick receives (and expects) as much attention as I'd give Catherine Zeta Jones, you'd see why I most of the time see not a single person worth approaching in a whole bar or club.

Quote:

Second, i really do think that the above problem gets exasperated as we get older due to declining testosterone. Whereas that urge would have kept us from ejecting when we are younger, no matter who the woman was, it now isn't a strong as when we were in our early twenties.

Personally I don't think it due to lower testosterone levels, but rather overall saturation, experience and maturation:

1. Saturation - having sex with first 50 women is amazing, and it is still interesting one or two hundred more. Then it feels more like "been there, seen that". It is very similar to skydiving - first 10-20 jumps you can't believe you're doing that, and then at some moment you find out that you're not scared to board the airplane anymore. Around 100-200 jumps you lose all the adrenaline rush - we call it emotional saturation, and jumping from the airplane from 15,000 feet is no different for me psychologically than walking to a grocery store, a lot of skydivers actually sleep in the plane on their way up. However skydiving being a sport, there is a lot of ways to overcome the initial saturation as there is significant growth opportunity - from doing BASE jumps (bridges, etc) to large (400+ people) formations and competing with world champions. Sex isn't a sport, and there is very little opportunity to growth, and sooner or later you'll hit the emotional saturation, you're half-way done.

2. Experience. When you've been with a lot of women, you can easily conclude that vast majority of them are nothing to write home about. It doesn't mean they were bad partners, it just was nothing excited. A chance for the next one to be the same average non-exciting is roughly 90%; there is 5% chance she gonna be really bad, and 5% chance she gonna be something you'd think you'd remember for ages, and roughly half of those you'll put into the "average" category when you bang them the second time. This typically does not limit your overall motivation, but it does have negative effect on the amount of effort you're willing to commit for a particular pussy.

3. Maturation - you grow up, and this means the "status" means different things for you now. Having sex with a lot of women is not only a cool, status thing - it is one of the measurements of success in your life when you're 25. You can brag about it, it will make your friends jealous, and everyone wants to be that guy. It indirectly motivates you to do even more. However having sex with a lot of women when you're 50 is not a measurement of success. If you try to brag with that, you might get something in lines with "so, you went on three dates, spent 10 hours and $60 total to get her in bed, instead of getting a $160 hooker? Congratulations, you have been working for $10/hour".

There is also lack of forbidden fruit. This point is unique to my circumstances, and might not affect the majority of the guys here. Quite often married guys here in US are controlled by their wives, and sex with others is a forbidden fruit for them. So as soon as they got out of her visibility range, they behave like chimps who practiced abstinence for a year (for some it may be even true). This, however, is not my case, and therefore it is not a forbidden fruit for me.

Quote:

I love situational convenience, in that the effort I'm required to make is very low. That's why I like friends of my friends wives, their sisters, etc... Anything that breeds a familiar and drawn out social situation. Meaning that they aren't going anywhere, and I can work on them at my leisure instead of having to game full on just to keep them from walking away.

This is true, but it is better when you're looking for long-term affairs. For me it is useless as there are very little "fuck-and-forget" opportunities.

Quote:

Also, that's why I like super-direct game for public unfamiliar situations. It eliminates the unnecessary work. If she's interested, you'll know very early and it moves the process along faster. If not, you can move on without expending a lot of wasted effort.

I'm trying it as well, but it is very difficult due to language issues as you must balance on a fine line by being open enough, but not to the point when you're written off as a jerk. This often requires using the vague language which is my weak point. If you can share a couple of scenarios/phrases, I'd really appreciate it.

[jfree]

(02-04-2011 01:42 AM)oldnemesis Wrote:  

(02-02-2011 03:44 PM)hydrogonian Wrote:  

First, its the indirect feminine culture (you have an easy comparison with Russia being the polar opposite). Its just way to much of a hassle to try and get laid for anything but the most worthy or easy of women. At least when running socially acceptable somewhat indirect game. Its boring to talk to most, as most aren't that interesting. They aren't bad either. Just average, flawed cookie cutter women. Granted, the ones that are above average can make it worth it, sort of. But the socializing that is necessary before the lay, with average women, gets repetitive and tiresome.

The "tiresome" part is golden as it describes exactly how I feel. It feels like following a specific boring protocol to get some specific and equally boring results. It is hard even to justify it to myself as practicing English, as you're repeating same or similar things again and again.

Oldnemesis, those are legitimate issues you have.

All approaches to swoop relations have their benefits and drawbacks, some more than others. Even worse, much of it is in our minds ...chemically and wiring wise.

I'm not sure how old you are... I'm not considered young anymore by any stretch of the imagination, but like you say, life and outlooks will change.

Have you considered writing down what matters most to you? If not, it can be great for men who naturally take actions like yourself to inspire some intelligent adjustments which we all need to do periodically. Non-action guys usually just end up as mental masturbation.

We all know there are no guarantees in life... and it always throws you some surprises. But I've learned over the years that change = opportunities. You just need to pick out which ones are worth developing.

[Andreas]

Necroposted again:

Gman: (I haven't convinced him to smoke cigarettes yet, but that is his loss)

If you try to verbally convince someone to smoke it won't work.Let them see how you behave while smoking and dont mention a word about it. The "success" behaviour while smoking is more likely to make someone's unconcious mind to give it a try. It's much easier to convince someone to smoke when not saying a word about it.

When i was 8 my uncle offered me to smoke a cigar. I denied his offer with very big resistance even though i didn't know a thing about smoking. He suddenly stood up and walked away from his office leaving his still "breathing" cigar on his ashtray. I was alone for sometime and then from the deadly silence in the office, it came into my mind "Smoke that thing". I gave it a try and choked for the following 10 minutes. I swore i would never try to smoke again.

However If i was older i would probably making huge savings to buy 2.5 hour lasting cigars like my uncle does today.

[oldnemesis]

(02-04-2011 01:39 PM)jfree Wrote:  

Have you considered writing down what matters most to you? If not, it can be great for men who naturally take actions like yourself to inspire some intelligent adjustments which we all need to do periodically. Non-action guys usually just end up as mental masturbation.

What exactly about? I'm not sure I understood your question.

Basically my strategy is reflecting my current skills. For example, my approach/opener skills is below basics, and I can say it point blank that my group approach is nonexistent, this is something I do not do at all. Now when you look further down on the timeline of pickup, it gets better; I'd rate my qualification as above basic, and once I'm in comfort, the lay is pretty much guaranteed unless I get bored. However I guess this is not the case with the most of the people here except those, who - like me - started and succeed in social circles.

[Samseau]

Quote:

3. Maturation - you grow up, and this means the "status" means different things for you now. Having sex with a lot of women is not only a cool, status thing - it is one of the measurements of success in your life when you're 25. You can brag about it, it will make your friends jealous, and everyone wants to be that guy. It indirectly motivates you to do even more. However having sex with a lot of women when you're 50 is not a measurement of success. If you try to brag with that, you might get something in lines with "so, you went on three dates, spent 10 hours and $60 total to get her in bed, instead of getting a $160 hooker? Congratulations, you have been working for $10/hour".

If you're 50 and are banging girls in their 20's, I don't think your friends will be able to make fun of you for much.

[loosewin]

Hey G,

Show your friend this video. He might get a kick out of it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wS5xOZ7Rq8

[oldnemesis]

(08-01-2011 07:28 AM)Samseau Wrote:  

If you're 50 and are banging girls in their 20's, I don't think your friends will be able to make fun of you for much.

You missed the point. Which was that when you're 25, this is something which has obvious value for your peers. You can brag about, and your friends would get jealous about it.

However when you're 50, sure you can still do it, but the value of such action for your peers is significantly lower. And if you try to brag about it to your friends, you'll just look insecure and they'll likely make fun of you.

[Samseau]

Quote:

However when you're 50, sure you can still do it, but the value of such action for your peers is significantly lower. And if you try to brag about it to your friends, you'll just look insecure and they'll likely make fun of you.

I'm pretty sure you'd be a hero to your 50 yr old friends if you were regularly banging girls in their 20's. Just don't brag about it, but if anyone asks you can just tell them "Oh, I'm just enjoying a breath of fresh air."

[Amour Fou]

(02-03-2011 03:44 AM)Mystik Wrote:  

Another thing I want to add here is the practice of "suppression of emotions."

When I heard about this concept or something similar I started judging my emotional responses and started suppressing them. That is not the same as "not giving a fuck".

For instance if I am talking to a hot girl and I am concerned about blowing it with her then I will start to feel that nervousness and then the thought process is something like this "wait this is being emotionally attached to the outcome, damn this emotion needs to stop, suppress, suppress, can't suppress, oh shit, now I am nervous about not being able to control my emotions and then there is a new emotion and then this shit spirals out of control."

The best thing to do here is not to judge your emotional responses and just allow them to come up and pass through. After all emotions are just chemical and electrical reactions in the body and they go away after some time. Like everything, the more you practice this the better you get at it. But unfortunately, its easier said than done.

That is why all these PUAs tell you to approach as many women as possible because once you get rejected you lose that fear and realize that its not a big deal and hence you are not attached to the end result. You do this enough and you will be completely neutral. So, this is unconsciously letting go of the attachments.

Hope this makes sense

This is wise advice!

If you supress, you are still divided, there is still a part of you that will be "attached to the outcome", and as you "supress" (trying to think through your conditioned emotional responses instead of experiencing them in a non-judgemental way), you will only keep things as they are, you are commiting yourself to mantaining the same emotional patterns and responses. The only way is to "feel it through", taking a non-judgemental stance towards your feelings at the moment they show up, trying to experience and live out these feelings (ie "shame", "guilt", "humiliation" etc) as much as possible till you get it out of your system. You learn to trivialize the feelings that keep you from getting what you want, and in that way, you go beyond them. (When you are experiencing these conditioned feelings, remember to breath deep and slowly, from the belly.)

Over time you will reach a stage where you relax and just be fully, undivided, in the present.

This is transmutation.

Over time, you will reach a state of chilled, open detachment. You will truly and deeply not give a fuck, not on a ressented and bitter way, but on a detached and open and creative way.

I am sure Mystik knows a thing or two about meditation.

[Kickb]

Bump

[RIslander]

I've always tried to live my life by the following code:

"Don't give a fuck about anything, unless by not giving a fuck it'll prevent you from not giving a fuck in the future"

Meaning, give fucks only about fuck-worthy things. Obviously, you can't not give a fuck and show up to work drunk everyday because you'll get fired, and then you'll have to start giving fucks because if you don't you'll be sleeping on a park bench.

[xmlenigma]

(08-01-2011 03:00 AM)oldnemesis Wrote:  

(02-04-2011 01:39 PM)jfree Wrote:  

Have you considered writing down what matters most to you? If not, it can be great for men who naturally take actions like yourself to inspire some intelligent adjustments which we all need to do periodically. Non-action guys usually just end up as mental masturbation.

What exactly about? I'm not sure I understood your question.

Basically my strategy is reflecting my current skills. For example, my approach/opener skills is below basics, and I can say it point blank that my group approach is nonexistent, this is something I do not do at all. Now when you look further down on the timeline of pickup, it gets better; I'd rate my qualification as above basic, and once I'm in comfort, the lay is pretty much guaranteed unless I get bored. However I guess this is not the case with the most of the people here except those, who - like me - started and succeed in social circles.

Do share your learnings/ highlights I am cool with the 20s crowd (Mid 30s - but look 20s), but feel a bit uncomfy when they start approaching 'jailbait' ages. But at times its a wrong assessment on my part as they are at timed older.

I'd love your insights as sometimes given my interest in philosophical subjects I find the younger ones a bit too 'boring' for me to even go forward.. But what kind of mindset, approach, conversation, escalation you follow would be something to learn from.

(08-01-2011 06:28 PM)oldnemesis Wrote:  

(08-01-2011 07:28 AM)Samseau Wrote:  

If you're 50 and are banging girls in their 20's, I don't think your friends will be able to make fun of you for much.

You missed the point. Which was that when you're 25, this is something which has obvious value for your peers. You can brag about, and your friends would get jealous about it.

However when you're 50, sure you can still do it, but the value of such action for your peers is significantly lower. And if you try to brag about it to your friends, you'll just look insecure and they'll likely make fun of you.

(08-01-2011 06:45 PM)Samseau Wrote:  

Quote:

However when you're 50, sure you can still do it, but the value of such action for your peers is significantly lower. And if you try to brag about it to your friends, you'll just look insecure and they'll likely make fun of you.

I'm pretty sure you'd be a hero to your 50 yr old friends if you were regularly banging girls in their 20's. Just don't brag about it, but if anyone asks you can just tell them "Oh, I'm just enjoying a breath of fresh air."

Its called plausible deniability. If you and your woman enjoy BDSM or 3somes with a 3rd, its not something you tell your friends/ social/ business associates.
If you are deep into some philosophy/ spiritual stuff, not everyone can be talked to about it.
Keep to yourself. If they see, catch, ask you.. play it off..

Let the different SILOS of your life be SEPARATE as not everything and everyone can MIX. For those who can get it, share but slowly. Not everyone will approve - SERIOUSLY!

I can count on a single hand the buddies in my life who would get it; no matter how good of friends they are.

[MdWanderer]

This is gold. I remember the week before I lost my virginity (after years of trying way too hard) I was laughing with friends about how much of a loser I was not getting laid. It's really hard to internalize this stuff but the law of averages will eventually work themselves out.

[Pride male]

Yeah! Don't give a fuck, to get a fuck.

[RIslander]

Whenever confronted with a situation where a fuck must be given or withheld, I ask myself... WWRS do?

He probably won't give a fuck.