[swishhboy25]

Hey all, was just wrapping up a workout and had some questions related to diet, lifting and physique. Im 22 years old, about 5 ft 9 and currently 145lbs. Ive been following Eric Cresseys Maximum Strength Program and on the 11th week of the 16 week program. Ive actually LOST weight, about 3 or 4 pounds due to being sick and what not but my strength levels have gone up.

My bench 1rm is 185, squat is 250 and deadlift approx. 270 or 280. These are novice numbers and i really want to get stronger/bigger. I can see small strength gains coming but i dont see a lot of size gains. The program im on may have a lot to do with that, its more of a powerbuilding conjugate periodization than hypertrophy. I eat extremely clean and try to eat as much as i can, tried counting calories and protein 1.5 x bw but not seeing much gains.

Do any of you fitness experts suggest i stick it out for the whole 16 weeks, or should i switch to a hypertrophy strength combo program? I hate to program hop as i know it doesnt achieve results but id really like to fill out that medium v-neck soon. Help!

Thanks.

[WanderingSoul]

What is your TDEE?

How many calories are you eating in excess of this every day?

What does eating "extremely clean" mean?

[kinjutsu]

I second Rionomad in saying thinking it's your diet.

You aren't eating enough food. So post-workout your body is going "catabolic" and feeding on itself essentially taking your gains away.
Make sure you drink plenty of water per day.


I am a hard gainer as well but i'm just over 200 pounds @ 6'3. I started lighter than you are right now. I learned a few things.

Go to your supplement store and buy a big bucket of mass gainer with bcaa's and protein.
Learn to love meal preparation. I'm serious here. If you do not pre-plan your meals you will wasting your time in the gym. I know for myself i consume around 6500 calories just to keep weight on me. I would need to go up to 7500 if i was looking to add some more weight.

Don't worry about being super clean eating right now. You don't have enough muscle mass to worry about putting on fat.
Rice and mashed potatoes with each meal.
Chicken.
Steak.
Eggs.
Fatty fish like salmon and tuna
plenty of fruits and veggies.

For example i start my day off with:
I have 6 eggs for breakfast with a banana and milk each day.
Then i take 2 containers blueberries and mix it in with 500ml of yogurt.

I continue to eat even after i feel full. You'll have to get over this feeling. I'm always eating around the house. Whether it be a sandwich, pieces of fruit or a mass gainer shake with milk.

[Hades]

No such thing as hardgainers, just under-trainers and under-eaters.

[HankRearden]

I'm pretty much in the same position: 6' and weigh 145 lbs, having lost 15 lbs from a recent backpacking trip.

I'm worried that since I already have a tiny beer gut and am losing my abs, will putting on weight just make me fat at first?

[berserk]

I'm with RioNomad here. Just like fat guys tend to not understand why they're not losing weight while eating a lot more cals than they think, skinny guys seem to not eat enough. Calories in vs Calories out works. Mass gains are often overlooked because they happen so slowly you become accustomed to the look.

[not_dead_yet]

I'm twice your age, also 5' 9" and 145#. I was 155# before I started doing Convict Conditioning last summer, and I've been making a concerted effort to put on weight for the past four months. I'm not interested in GOMAD/dirty gains; that's just not my style.

Like everyone else said, you're not eating enough. I'm trying to do LeanGains-style intermittent fasting, and this is what I'm using to calculate my calories/macros. http://rippedbody.jp/2011/10/23/how-to-c...ns-macros/ For your reference, I'm eating 2k on rest days and 3k on workout days and I'll keep ratcheting that up by 100-200 cals every week until I'm putting on a half pound/pound a week (per Venuto's Burn the Fat...). Given that you're a younger guy, I imagine you need more calories than that.

Also, if you're doing cardio/endurance, you should drop it. I do HIIT three times a week and it's plenty.

[cmrocks]

Sounds like you'd be a good candidate for a program like Strong Lifts or Starting Strength.

I used Starting Strength to go from 155 to 175 lbs and got my bench up to 225, squat to 295 and deadlift to 385 on that program. I'm now on an intermediate program that cycles 6 weeks long.

As for gaining weight, I tried and tried to "clean bulk" but I could never make it work for me. I resorted to eating a lot of pasta and rice to finally pack on some weight. I definitely gained some fat but it's coming off pretty easily now that I'm cutting.

EDIT: When I say gained some fat, I mean I went from my 31 pants being a bit loose to them being pretty snug. Nothing crazy.

[Santoro]

Swishh very similar situation myself. Started at 130 lbs May of last year and currently at 155 pounds.

Eat. Lots. Buy foods that are easy to prepare and you can eat a ton of. Guys like us don't really get 'fat', we just don't gain weight. Provided we are lifting hard, of course.

I buy powdered lemonade mix and usually drink lemonade instead of water. All day. It's a ton of pure sugar, but it doesn't really affect my energy levels and the extra calories REALLY help. When it comes to pure ectomorphs, it's ALL about keeping a sky high caloric intake while doing your best to keep the macronutrients leveled out.

The guys at bony to beastly are a very good resource for so called hard-gainers, if you haven't checked them out it's pretty good

http://bonytobeastly.com/

[cmrocks]

(04-26-2014 10:09 PM)chambs88 Wrote:  

I buy powdered lemonade mix and usually drink lemonade instead of water. All day. It's a ton of pure sugar, but it doesn't really affect my energy levels and the extra calories REALLY help. When it comes to pure ectomorphs, it's ALL about keeping a sky high caloric intake while doing your best to keep the macronutrients leveled out.

I wouldn't recommend that at all. You may not be getting fat from doing that but you're definitely going to end up with insulin insensitivity and possibly Type II diabetes if you do that long term.

Drink chocolate milk if you want something easy that packs on the weight.

[2014]

yeah, sugar is just terrible for you

[faznine15]

Eric Cressey FTW!

Cressye is awesome. I've had the pleasure of working out at his gym for several weeks and the guy is one of smartest no bullshit guys out there in the industry.

He helped me finally get my shoulder situation settled when no one else seemed to have a clue.

His programs aren't going to be traditional body builder type shit but they will save you years of hard rehab work as they are desigend to make you functionally strong. Trust me this forum is littered with post about guys who blew their _____ insert body part here because they had massive strenght imbalances. There's a reason his program prolly has you doing chest no more than once week. Also, if you want bigger arms just throw in some direct arm work. Just don't do bicep curls in the squat rack....

I'd kill to go back in time and be 22 again and have known about guys like Eric Cressey and propper balanced strenght training.

I'd keep on the program and build that solid base before transitioning into other more powerlifting intensive programs like Strong Lifts. A lot of guys on here including my self got eaten alive by starting strenght. For desk jockeys with massive muscular imablances and rounded shoulders that haven't had all that solid core and posterior chain building that you are getting with that Cressey program Starting Strenght is just a massive injury waiting to happen.

Before you go on a wild program changing hunt. I'd second the fact that you need to be eating more. I'm also a skinny ectomorth at my genetic core and had to but my caloric intake upward of 3500 hundred before I started seeing weight gains that stuck. Typical online calculators showed that I should be eating 2600-2900 Cals a day for "bulking" so you can see how far off the nubmers can be for a skinny dude like yourself.

Look into getting a tub of MaltoDextrin to help you out with the carbs you are going to need to eat.

Ectomorphs can easily rock carb heavy macros due to our increased metabolism.

Oh and have you thought about emailing Eric? He's super responive and I'm sure could tweak / tailor your program for you. He's done that for several programs he had written for me.

[The Beast1]

Ouch you guys have it rough. I thought it was horrible being me at 6ft tall and 150lbs.

You most likely aren't meeting your caloric intake. Think roughly eating 4-5 meals a day (with one protein shake as a meal).

Three tips from a hard gainer/not eating enougher myself,

1. Drink whole milk. This will become your new water. Drink it anytime you are thirsty except at the gym. No excuses.
2. Do full range of motion compound lifts. Deadlifts, squats, bench, clean & press, etc. I used this as a good routine to build off http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/wotw46.htm
3. Do not do cardio until you are ready to cut.

Your macros are what are keeping you from gaining mass. Every time you feel that pit of hunger in your stomach you need to fill it. The plus side is, when you're ready to cut just remove a meal and add in cardio. You will lose a ton of weight really quickly unlike the other guys that struggle to keep weight off.

[HankRearden]

So I don't have to make my own thread quite yet, what program would you recommend to me with being 6' 145 lbs. I used to be 160 lbs and had worked out on and off for about 3 years, but now remain super skinny with a small beer gut.

Any advice? I would be hugely appreciative.

Thanks fellas.

PS - If anyone has a copy of the Bony to Beastly e-book I will love you forever.

[Jaydublin]

(04-28-2014 07:04 PM)HankRearden Wrote:  

So I don't have to make my own thread quite yet, what program would you recommend to me with being 6' 145 lbs. I used to be 160 lbs and had worked out on and off for about 3 years, but now remain super skinny with a small beer gut.

Any advice? I would be hugely appreciative.

Thanks fellas.

PS - If anyone has a copy of the Bony to Beastly e-book I will love you forever.

Bill star 5x5 is what I used to put on my mass when I was younger. Diet is also key.

OR

[DarkKing]

(04-28-2014 12:12 PM)faznine15 Wrote:  

Eric Cressey FTW!

Cressye is awesome. I've had the pleasure of working out at his gym for several weeks and the guy is one of smartest no bullshit guys out there in the industry.

He helped me finally get my shoulder situation settled when no one else seemed to have a clue.

His programs aren't going to be traditional body builder type shit but they will save you years of hard rehab work as they are desigend to make you functionally strong. Trust me this forum is littered with post about guys who blew their _____ insert body part here because they had massive strenght imbalances. There's a reason his program prolly has you doing chest no more than once week. Also, if you want bigger arms just throw in some direct arm work. Just don't do bicep curls in the squat rack....

I'd kill to go back in time and be 22 again and have known about guys like Eric Cressey and propper balanced strenght training.

I'd keep on the program and build that solid base before transitioning into other more powerlifting intensive programs like Strong Lifts. A lot of guys on here including my self got eaten alive by starting strenght. For desk jockeys with massive muscular imablances and rounded shoulders that haven't had all that solid core and posterior chain building that you are getting with that Cressey program Starting Strenght is just a massive injury waiting to happen.

Before you go on a wild program changing hunt. I'd second the fact that you need to be eating more. I'm also a skinny ectomorth at my genetic core and had to but my caloric intake upward of 3500 hundred before I started seeing weight gains that stuck. Typical online calculators showed that I should be eating 2600-2900 Cals a day for "bulking" so you can see how far off the nubmers can be for a skinny dude like yourself.

Look into getting a tub of MaltoDextrin to help you out with the carbs you are going to need to eat.

Ectomorphs can easily rock carb heavy macros due to our increased metabolism.

Oh and have you thought about emailing Eric? He's super responive and I'm sure could tweak / tailor your program for you. He's done that for several programs he had written for me.

This post pretty much covers it. If you are thinking of changing programs, then you have to analyze what type of a lifestyle you are leading first. If you spend most of your day hunched over at the comp, then things like SS are not for you. Sitting all day causes you to have big muscle imbalances, which a program like SS makes only worse. You need to take care of those first before doing anything like SS. It's an open secret that Rippetoe can't bench press heavy anymore since his rotator cuffs are really messed up. He also has no ACLs in any of his knees.

The main problem here is that you are not eating enough. You might think you are, but if you are losing weight than you are not. You are expending a lot more energy doing your daily routine + lifting + whatever else you, than all the calories that you are putting in. You need to take care of this first. Look at how many calories you are eating daily, how many calories you expend and then just eat more calories than your maintenance calories.

[DarkKing]

(04-28-2014 07:04 PM)HankRearden Wrote:  

So I don't have to make my own thread quite yet, what program would you recommend to me with being 6' 145 lbs. I used to be 160 lbs and had worked out on and off for about 3 years, but now remain super skinny with a small beer gut.

Any advice? I would be hugely appreciative.

Thanks fellas.

PS - If anyone has a copy of the Bony to Beastly e-book I will love you forever.

The program itself is not as important, as long as it covers the basic principles of being built around heavy compound movements and progressive overload (meaning periodically upping the weight you are lifting). From the way you describe yourself, I also suspect that you are a desk jockey and that means that you most likely have severe muscle imbalances. That's why your routine should try to take care of those first and it should include a lot more pull movements rather than push. However if you want to gain weight, your diet is going to be the most important thing.

You also say, you are skinny fat. I don't think you should worry about that too much at the moment. Just start your routine, eat a lot of food (try to keep it as clean as possible since you already have a gut) and just pack on weight and muscle. You can go into a cutting phase once you have reached the size that you want.

[spalex]

I'm 6ft2, about 210lbs
Been smashing the gym, pre workout, creatine, protein powder and eating enough for two every meal.
Doing more than double what I started with shoulder dumbell press, leg press, squats and deadlifts.

I have but on a fair bit of muscle. But I have a bit of a beer gut. I drink beer every weekend.
Does anybody have any diet tips for losing the beer gut? I was thinking of just cutting down on the carbs I am eating by about 25% then 50%.
Is this a stupid idea?

[DarkKing]

(04-29-2014 03:54 AM)spalex Wrote:  

I'm 6ft2, about 210lbs
Been smashing the gym, pre workout, creatine, protein powder and eating enough for two every meal.
Doing more than double what I started with shoulder dumbell press, leg press, squats and deadlifts.

I have but on a fair bit of muscle. But I have a bit of a beer gut. I drink beer every weekend.
Does anybody have any diet tips for losing the beer gut? I was thinking of just cutting down on the carbs I am eating by about 25% then 50%.
Is this a stupid idea?

Cutting down on the carbs might help, depending on your activity levels (if you are mostly sedentary all day, however don't reduce carbs if you do a lot of sports and stuff and don't sit around all day). Although eating clean in general (and cutting down on the beer) can also be done without cutting down on carbs. However you can't spot reduce fat. It has to go away from all parts of your body.

Diet here is not the only thing that you should change in order to get rid of the beer gut. I would also do things like sprints (on flat surfaces, and especially hill sprints if you can) and other similar activities.

[DarkKing]

By the way, I think I covered a lot of the basic stuff for gaining weight and getting muscles in this post:
http://gainweightjournal.com/how-to-gain-weight/

It's based on my experiences trying to gain weight and all the stuff I learned on the way.

[StrikeBack]

(04-29-2014 03:54 AM)spalex Wrote:  

But I have a bit of a beer gut. I drink beer every weekend.
Does anybody have any diet tips for losing the beer gut?

Don't drink beer.

[The Beast1]

(04-29-2014 04:40 AM)StrikeBack Wrote:  

(04-29-2014 03:54 AM)spalex Wrote:  

But I have a bit of a beer gut. I drink beer every weekend.
Does anybody have any diet tips for losing the beer gut?

Don't drink beer.

X2 the more I started working out the less alcohol i wanted to drink. Even drinking a little bit makes me feel like crap.

[HankRearden]

(04-29-2014 04:18 AM)DarkKing Wrote:  

By the way, I think I covered a lot of the basic stuff for gaining weight and getting muscles in this post:
http://gainweightjournal.com/how-to-gain-weight/

It's based on my experiences trying to gain weight and all the stuff I learned on the way.

Thanks man I'll check out your blogs!

EDIT: And yes, heavy desk jockey. Lawyer and big time internet user anyways.

[Doctor]

Add in a glass of whole milk, a tablespoon of any oil, and a serving of peanut butter to each meal. Easy to do and quickly adds ~450 calories to each meal without much work. Throw in a banana and you're over 500 additional calories per meal.

[GTS]

Growth is about the work to calorie intake ratio. The more work you do, the more you will need to eat to grow. Good strength routines are usually very calorie demanding. If you can't meet the calorie requirements, I wouldn't even bother with a routine like this