[WestIndianArchie]

Unfortunately, the TV show has made Tyrion into a "good guy", when he was much more grey in the books. Same with Arya.

But using our ideas of red pill, alpha, beta, dark triad, et cetera, how would you analyze the various characters.

Spoilers welcomed.

WIA

[Alpharius]

Tyrion a good guy? Wait til the end of this season, if the books are anything to go by.

Arya good? The latest chapter released by George R. R. Martin has her "not wanting to miss" her own raping. She's about 11 in this preview chapter for The Winds of Winter. Later in the chapter she seduces a guy and murders him.

[Slim Shady]

(04-09-2014 09:18 AM)Osiris Wrote:  

Tyrion a good guy? Wait til the end of this season, if the books are anything to go by.

Arya good? The latest chapter released by George R. R. Martin has her "not wanting to miss" her own raping. She's about 11 in this preview chapter for The Winds of Winter. Later in the chapter she seduces a guy and murders him.

Not wanting to miss her own raping...in an acting part.

If you read that chapter closely, it's very interesting, because the production they are putting up on stage is exactly the stuff going on in Westeros in the first 5 books. The dwarf is Tyrion, and I think Arya is ironically playing the part of Sansa in the play...who is getting married to, yet "raped" by the imp monster.

Also if you listen to the dialogue between Arya [Mercy] and her friend when they talk about the guards of the envoy from Westeros, you hear Arya [Mercy] comment on how good looking one of the older guards is. Her friend immediately says that he is "ancient". This actually mirrors a conversation from the first book I think between Sansa, and Jeyne Poole - who is pretending to be Arya in the North, married to Ramsay Bolton.

[soup]

I think it's weird/interesting that he wrote those books, and now he's got the actor's in mind as he's writing the next ones.

The show does come off as "redpill" in general in that it doesn't really try to make everyone just good or bad.

It's just entertainment.. and it does have it's moments of good acting etc. I like the vistas of nature.

I still think it looks fake when she's petting the dragons.

Ned Stark represents the old school alpha turned provider who is swept away in the quickly changing world.

In many ways, at the heart of the redpill movement is this kind of character, who is trying in earnest to keep the old ways of together and maintain order.

As he dies on the show, he's pretty much dead now. That's why I don't get when redpill guys get all tossed up over marriage issues etc. It's good that we point out that marriage is dead, but it's time to move on.

There are a lot of players and alphas on that show.

The whole show is a framing war. All of the characters are vying to bring about the dominance of their frame as embodied by the claiming of the throne.

Danyrus represents the liberal movement that brings freedom to the masses.

Lanisters represent wall street.

I like that there are sanctioned whore houses.

I like that there is a dyke fighter who isn't trying to convert everyone into dykes (redpill).

It would be really redpill if all those guys were kissing Danyrus' ass just to gain power. If she gets fat, then it's not Redpill.

The dragons represent nuclear weapons.

The dwarf seems to be the one keeping everything together.

[Van Zan]

Off the top of my head, some quick thoughts on the Alpha aspects of some characters. There's certainly some stuff to takeaway from them if you analyze them in this way.

Ned Stark - Alpha. Probably the most well rounded embodiment of the traits. Has a code, sticks to it, owns all his responsibilities.

Robert - Alpha in regards to his own pleasure, to the point of being self-destructive. Definitely lacking in a lot of areas.

Stannis - Alpha about justice and ruling, but his at-all-costs mentality is questionable.

Jamie - In regards to being the best at using a sword (before he lost his hand), he's Alpha. But he's got serious oneitis with his bitch sister.

Tywin - Alpha, but he cares too much about how others view his family.

Tyrion - He derives too much of his status from his family name and money, but he demonstrates the necessity for men to focus on improving what they have (his mind) over lamenting what they don't have (good looks, a normal body, etc) Alpha in that sense.

[Slim Shady]

I've done a few mini red pill comments of the show and books in other posts.

My main problem in the show is with the portrayal of Stannis and Dany.

Stannis: He may not be attractive to many here looking for the wild life, and bedding many attractive women, but personally I do not think that is all there is for every life [though I want it for my own life]. His life is driven by duty - to the extent that he is doing something all in that he does not even want to do, but HAS to out of honor. In the show he is made to look greedy, unattractive, and a puppet and bitch to the red woman. He is not. He is unsmiling, and unbreaking. His unwavering sense of honor might be his breaking point, but he is not going to go down like Ned Stark, because he is honorable in a psychotic way, as opposed to Ned who was honorable in a very nice guy/non confrontational way.

My crazy theory: The red woman says he is the hero Azor Ahai reborn, and she has seen him in her fires, battling with the White Walkers [Others]. Funny thing though, she never sees which side he fights FOR. Stannis learns the secret of the White Walkers, and leads their army south of the wall, and fights Dany's dragons. Boom.

Dany: A spoiled bitch with a very rough childhood and a history of molestation while young, from her own brother. Loves the bad boys, and the rough sex. Tries to pretend to be a liberator, but is nothing but a spoiled girl, with tons of beta orbiters, in way over her head. She will still get out of her mess because she has Dragons, but more importantly because of three experienced and intelligent men: Tyrion, Barristan, Victarion Greyjoy, Jorah.

She is possibly a pawn in the plans of the ultimate wildcard: Euron Greyjoy: The ultimate dark triad alpha. He is too "bad" to become the ultimate victor, even in a red pill book series as this.


Favorite characters knowing the books:

Petyr Baelish - classic oneitis/beta to red pill/alpha story. Also the mother fucked him over...so he's gonna bone the much younger and hotter daughter. And this time without the oneitis. Fuck yeah. He also reminds me of one of my best friends...yes a machiavellian.
Jaime Lannister - he is actually not a conventional "alpha". Even though all the girls want him, he has oneitis for his sister, who is banging everyone. But he is the misunderstood man, with honor in his own way.
Tyrion: probably the character with the most plot armor in the series, being Martin's favorite. Many book reading nerds accuse Tyrion of being a rapist because he will get really wasted in book 5? and bone an actual Prostitute in Essos under "sketchy" circumstances. He's a fucking black out drunk DWARF fucking a whore...please. He does go down into the mental dumps for a while, but he rises out. Has not let all his physical disadvantages stop him, and though he self medicates with alcohol, I think we can allow him that.
Varys: I don't even want to spoil the long game he's playing. The mysterious Varys plot starts much before the first book. I'll give a little away on my theory: He's been plotting with Illyrio Mopatis from Pentos. He is a secret Targaryan/ Blackfyre.
Arya: She's a psycho killer child, and joins an ancient order of assasins [who are trying to kill all the dragons is my theory]. After all she's gone through, she doesn't mope, she goes and does something. If feminists could take even 5% advice from her, they'd be worth something.


-----------------

Other comments:

Jorah: The show portrayal doesn't work because Ian Glenn is attractive, and tall, and has a deep voice girls would go crazy for. He is an averagely attractive hairy bear man in the books, and has always been a sucker for women. His whole troubles started when he spent all his money on his first wife, who left him. He seems to not have learned, because he gave up his only chance of returning home by saving Dany. Hopefully his time spent with Tyrion will teach him something. But after being a white knight for so long..he'll probably die an "honorable death" for his bitch Queen.

Bran Stark and The three eyed crow [aka Brendyn Rivers, aka Bloddraven - the 120 year old Targaryan great bastard]: These guys are essentially the fucking Gods of the universe...or the closest to them. Please read the short stories -Tales of Dunk and Egg, set 100 years before the first book.\n
Also, Tywin Lannister: Best book to show transfer. Charles Dance is an alpha IRL too. All the young hotties from the show talk about how they swoon every time he enters the room.

Much and more to say.

I'll end the rambling with a quote from another wild psycho, Ramsay Bolton: "If you think this has a happy ending, you haven't been paying attention."

Anyways, total psychos never truly win, it's the calm cold ones, like Tywin Lannister, or Roose Bolton, who control things.

[Alpharius]

(04-09-2014 09:39 AM)Slim Shady Wrote:  

(04-09-2014 09:18 AM)Osiris Wrote:  

Tyrion a good guy? Wait til the end of this season, if the books are anything to go by.

Arya good? The latest chapter released by George R. R. Martin has her "not wanting to miss" her own raping. She's about 11 in this preview chapter for The Winds of Winter. Later in the chapter she seduces a guy and murders him.

Not wanting to miss her own raping...in an acting part.

If you read that chapter closely, it's very interesting, because the production they are putting up on stage is exactly the stuff going on in Westeros in the first 5 books. The dwarf is Tyrion, and I think Arya is ironically playing the part of Sansa in the play...who is getting married to, yet "raped" by the imp monster.

Also if you listen to the dialogue between Arya [Mercy] and her friend when they talk about the guards of the envoy from Westeros, you hear Arya [Mercy] comment on how good looking one of the older guards is. Her friend immediately says that he is "ancient". This actually mirrors a conversation from the first book I think between Sansa, and Jeyne Poole - who is pretending to be Arya in the North, married to Ramsay Bolton.

I know it's a part of her learning to act, but it would take a seriously ill motherfucker to not flinch at playing the part of your own sister being raped and killed.

[soup]

(04-09-2014 10:04 AM)Van Zan Wrote:  

Off the top of my head, some quick thoughts on the Alpha aspects of some characters. There's certainly some stuff to takeaway from them if you analyze them in this way.

Ned Stark - Alpha. Probably the most well rounded embodiment of the traits. Has a code, sticks to it, owns all his responsibilities.

Robert - Alpha in regards to his own pleasure, to the point of being self-destructive. Definitely lacking in a lot of areas.

Stannis - Alpha about justice and ruling, but his at-all-costs mentality is questionable.

Jamie - In regards to being the best at using a sword (before he lost his hand), he's Alpha. But he's got serious oneitis with his bitch sister.

Tywin - Alpha, but he cares too much about how others view his family.

Tyrion - He derives too much of his status from his family name and money, but he demonstrates the necessity for men to focus on improving what they have (his mind) over lamenting what they don't have (good looks, a normal body, etc) Alpha in that sense.

Tyrion's got mad game being that he's a dwarf and is banging the chick on the show.

[Muk]

I think I'll just exit this thread right now...

[MattW]

Some good points:

Quote:

Since Tyrion Lannister has turned from a capable and decent medieval nobleman into a thoroughly wimpy and gelded women’s rights respecting twenty first century male feminist mangina I have stopped caring about him also. Similarly, when the Daenerys Stormborn, daughter of dragons, mother of dragons, turned from being a hot sorceress bent on conquering the world and restoring the magic, to a do gooder abolitionist, aiming to abolish slavery, rather than become a magical queen of a world in which the magic is renewed, she became boring and unpleasant.
...
Early in the series, I liked Eddard Stark, because he was doing the right thing for a medieval nobleman, but lately, the good guys are all good by being twenty first century progressives, not good by being good noblemen.

via Free Northerner

[bojangles]

**SPOILER***



[spoiler]
Varys is the master. Read the below if you don't mind a spoiler

Daenarys Targaryen isn't the rightful ruler of the throne of Westeros according to succession laws, her nephew is still alive. I.e son of Rhaegar and nephew of Oberon who made his debut on the show this past week.

Varys smuggled away Aegon Targaryen as a baby as he knew the Targaryen's downfall was coming. The child was brought up to be the King. Will play a major part in the series.

Varys on Aegon
"Aegon has been shaped for rule before he could walk. He has been trained in arms, as befits a knight to be, but that was not the end of his education. He reads and writes, he speaks several tongues, he has studied history and law and poetry. A septa has instructed him in the mysteries of the Faith since he was old enough to understand them. He has lived with fisherfolk, worked with his hands, swum in rivers and mended nets and learned to wash his own clothes at need. He can fish and cook and bind up a wound, he knows what it is like to be hungry, to be hunted, to be afraid. Tommen has been taught that kingship is his right. Aegon knows kingship is his duty, that a king must put his people first, and live and rule for them"

[/spoiler]

fuck isnt there a spoiler tag hahaha

[Slim Shady]

bojangles, you've inspired me to go all in.

SUPER CRAZY NOT EVEN REVEALED IN THE BOOKS SPOILERS [Well...my theory from careful reading]:

Yes I am a total nerd for the books, it is my one geeky vice - I don't play video games

...

Aegon is not a real Targaryen. But he does not know that. He is descended from house "Blackfyre", the legitimized bastard line of House Targaryen.

Here,s some history:

http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.html/House_Blackfyre

If you notice the last quote by Illirio, only the male line has been extinguished. Which means that a female heir was alive. My theory is that Vary, and his sister [never introduced in the book] are of this descent. Varys is bald, but if he grew his hair, it would show his ancestry. If you read the GRRM short stories, there is precedent for a Targaryen hiding his lineage by shaving the head.

Now Varys' sister married Illyrio, and so technically their son "Aegon" is a Blackfyre descendant, and if the original Blackfyre claim was true over 100 years ago...then he is still the rightful heir.

Why go through Varys' sister? Because Varys has been castrated. Why? Because of blood magic. Remember the red woman Melissandre says there is magic in kings blood. Well, some red priest/sorcerer found out Varys' lineage many years ago, and used his penis for blood magic power.

So I'm assuming Varys' sister is dead, but Varys the uncle, and Illyrio - the father - are taking care to make sure their heir takes power. If you look at the statue of young Illyrio, you can see that he was a stud in the young days, not fat.

What Varys did not count on however, was that Dany's dragons would actually hatch, and so that complicated affairs. The war of 5 kings was all part of the plan to weaken Westeros for the Aegon attack. Maybe even have him marry Dany to solidify the line/ get Dragons.

By sending Aegon back to Westeros early, Tyrion has semi ruined Varys' plan.

Drops mic.

[Slim Shady]

delete

[Pinocchio]

for me the hound is the ultimate alpha

[Pinocchio]

[bojangles]

ah The Hound is awesome, what about The Mountain?

[Alpharius]

Robert Baratheon is probably the most alpha dude in the story. He makes Tyrion look absolutely beta when it comes to banging chicks, hell, his bastard children become a major point of concern regarding the line of succession. During the rebellion, he was supposed to be all that is man - massive muscles, champion at arms, and capable of exhausting every whore in a brothel while injured and in hiding. He parties like there's no tomorrow, and turns hated enemies into allies with his charm.

Then he marries Cersei, gains over 100lbs and tries to drink himself to death night and day. Go figure.

[soup]

HOund vs. Mountain

[CJ_W]

(04-10-2014 07:12 AM)bojangles Wrote:  

**SPOILER***



[spoiler]
Varys is the master. Read the below if you don't mind a spoiler

Daenarys Targaryen isn't the rightful ruler of the throne of Westeros according to succession laws, her nephew is still alive. I.e son of Rhaegar and nephew of Oberon who made his debut on the show this past week.

Varys smuggled away Aegon Targaryen as a baby as he knew the Targaryen's downfall was coming. The child was brought up to be the King. Will play a major part in the series.

Varys on Aegon
"Aegon has been shaped for rule before he could walk. He has been trained in arms, as befits a knight to be, but that was not the end of his education. He reads and writes, he speaks several tongues, he has studied history and law and poetry. A septa has instructed him in the mysteries of the Faith since he was old enough to understand them. He has lived with fisherfolk, worked with his hands, swum in rivers and mended nets and learned to wash his own clothes at need. He can fish and cook and bind up a wound, he knows what it is like to be hungry, to be hunted, to be afraid. Tommen has been taught that kingship is his right. Aegon knows kingship is his duty, that a king must put his people first, and live and rule for them"

[/spoiler]

fuck isnt there a spoiler tag hahaha

There's a character that is the true successor to the Targaryen throne. (not Aegon.)

But that's more implied, and if you look hard enough you'll figure it out.

But it's such a huge spoiler that even if you wanted spoilers I wouldn't want to spoil that part. If anyone is curious PM me and Ill give you a hint, but youll have to work to figure it out, cause I definately wont spoil that.

Edit: nvm there's probably enough hints in the post that I made already, dont pm me.

[Slim Shady]

"Promise me Ned"

[CJ_W]

(04-11-2014 10:30 PM)Slim Shady Wrote:  

"Promise me Ned"

shhhhhhh!

Also in the Honest trailers video of GOT they also alude to that at somewhere in the video.

[RawGod]

I'm just waiting for Daenerys to get her comeuppance. When/if she loses her head, it will be epic.

[Vicious]

(04-10-2014 07:12 AM)bojangles Wrote:  

**SPOILER***



[spoiler]
Varys is the master. Read the below if you don't mind a spoiler

Daenarys Targaryen isn't the rightful ruler of the throne of Westeros according to succession laws, her nephew is still alive. I.e son of Rhaegar and nephew of Oberon who made his debut on the show this past week.

Varys smuggled away Aegon Targaryen as a baby as he knew the Targaryen's downfall was coming. The child was brought up to be the King. Will play a major part in the series.
[/spoiler]

fuck isnt there a spoiler tag hahaha

The thing is that this is all Varys' words. We have never had a Varys viewpoint chapter so we don't know if he's obfuscating (which is his primary weapon) and just looking to put his own puppet on the throne.

[eradicator]

Spoilers. I will say it again, spoilers.

Before the book series is finished, we had better get a varys chapter and littlefinger chapter.

Tywin, Littlefinger and Varys are the only alphas in the series(possibly Euron Greyjoy but we really have no idea what he is up to just yet). LF talks in one of the chapters in book for about who the players are and who the pieces are.

Ned is an idiot. So is Rob. They are the white knights of the show, and same for Jon Snow(at least in his current incarnation, he is a beta white knight).

Someone mentioned that bran and bloodraven are like gods. it is possible that Jon Snow is Azor Ahaii(the red god), a huge number of indicators of this in book five, but they have not outright said this yet. And even more speculation that the song of ice and fire is about him along with the prophecies.

I like Stannis, but is he alpha? It honestly would not shock me to see him come out on top of the iron throne when all is said and done, or at least he will end up playing a role in saving Westeros from the white walkers

Gregor Clegane is like Victarion Greyjoy- total grunts who are manipulated by their leaders.

[bojangles]

(04-11-2014 10:25 PM)CJ_W Wrote:  

(04-10-2014 07:12 AM)bojangles Wrote:  

**SPOILER***



[spoiler]
Varys is the master. Read the below if you don't mind a spoiler

Daenarys Targaryen isn't the rightful ruler of the throne of Westeros according to succession laws, her nephew is still alive. I.e son of Rhaegar and nephew of Oberon who made his debut on the show this past week.

Varys smuggled away Aegon Targaryen as a baby as he knew the Targaryen's downfall was coming. The child was brought up to be the King. Will play a major part in the series.

Varys on Aegon
"Aegon has been shaped for rule before he could walk. He has been trained in arms, as befits a knight to be, but that was not the end of his education. He reads and writes, he speaks several tongues, he has studied history and law and poetry. A septa has instructed him in the mysteries of the Faith since he was old enough to understand them. He has lived with fisherfolk, worked with his hands, swum in rivers and mended nets and learned to wash his own clothes at need. He can fish and cook and bind up a wound, he knows what it is like to be hungry, to be hunted, to be afraid. Tommen has been taught that kingship is his right. Aegon knows kingship is his duty, that a king must put his people first, and live and rule for them"

[/spoiler]

fuck isnt there a spoiler tag hahaha

There's a character that is the true successor to the Targaryen throne. (not Aegon.)

But that's more implied, and if you look hard enough you'll figure it out.

But it's such a huge spoiler that even if you wanted spoilers I wouldn't want to spoil that part. If anyone is curious PM me and Ill give you a hint, but youll have to work to figure it out, cause I definately wont spoil that.

Edit: nvm there's probably enough hints in the post that I made already, dont pm me.

Now I need to know, tell me hahaha