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Starch based diet
#26

Starch based diet

Maciano: Vegetarianism isn't some fad diet bud. We've been walking the earth for millennia and will continue to do so. Aside from being healthier, its the only sustainable path for the planet.

Hades: Lol, a lot of venomous B.S there. Any studies to back up those claims?

I'm a lacto-ovo vegetarian so I eat dairy(the most bioavailable form of protein). In addition, I eat a ton of fresh veggies, fruits and healthy fats like walnuts. You wanna point out where I'm nutritionally deficient?

The comical truth is Americans don't want to let go of their steaks. There's nothing in meat you can't get from other sources.
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#27

Starch based diet

"you shouldn't eat food, your ancestors didn't eat"

Lol, yes, don't you dare eat tomatoes, avocados, or potatoes whitey! Seriously, this is stupid advice.

" Personally, if grain is such a bad thing, I wonder how the rise of agriculture caused humans to create civilizations and become the dominant species on earth. "

Agriculture increases the carrying capacity of land - I.e. how many people you can feed with say an acre of land. It leads to lots of other changes as well, but it doesn't follow that the health of individuals in agricultural societies is better. Archaelogical studies bear out the superior health of hunter gatherers.
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#28

Starch based diet

"BasilRansom: Lol. I'd love to see that study on the leading cause of mortalility in cavemen...."

Infant mortality: how does it work?

Like most vegans you're no differnt from a scientifically illiterate creationist.
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#29

Starch based diet

I'm not Paleo.

But.

Go look at a room full of Paleo people and a room full of vegans.

Then ask which group contains men you'd rather look like and which group has the hottest women.

Real life has a way of sorting out nonsense if you just open your eyes.
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#30

Starch based diet

MikeCF: Again, I'm not vegan. That said, I know a lot of smoking hot vegan chicks.

What creationism has to do with this thread, I can't say but your brashly confident knowledge on the origins of the universe has made me curious. According to the 1st law of thermodynamics, energy can neither be created or destroyed. So how did the big bang come to be?
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#31

Starch based diet

"Infant mortality: how does it work?

Like most vegans you're no differnt from a scientifically illiterate creationist."

Yeah I don't think those caveman corpses with shattered skulls died from a lack of soy in their diets.

I liked the part where he questioned height as an indicator of health. Eg North Koreans being several inches shorter than their brothers in South Korea.
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#32

Starch based diet

I'm not going to argue over cavemen, the data is too limited to make any claims.

As for height, why do the Japanese outlive Americans?
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#33

Starch based diet

^little old ladies live the longest.

That's neither interesting nor relevant.

Most of us want to look like real men and have vitality while balancing longevity.

It's not that hard to comprehend.
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#34

Starch based diet

Quote: (04-03-2014 11:52 AM)MikeCF Wrote:  

^little old ladies live the longest.

That's neither interesting nor relevant.

Most of us want to look like real men and have vitality while balancing longevity.

It's not that hard to comprehend.

My mom *is* a little old lady. Excellent health, her mom lived to 99 and her aunt lived to 96, she's probably got at least 10 years left. Too bad she won't remember them because her dementia is so bad she can't form new memories.

Also, there's a significant difference between being an ovo-lacto vegetarian and vegan. I've talked to vegans who won't eat honey because it's "exploiting" bees. WTF?

A "starch based diet" is not the same thing as being vegetarian. Starches are low nutrition foods that provide easy calories, an excellent thing if you're plowing fields, churning your own butter, grinding your own corn. If you're sitting on your ass all day, it's a fast track to diabetes.
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#35

Starch based diet

Quote: (04-03-2014 10:52 AM)SpecialEd Wrote:  

Maciano: Vegetarianism isn't some fad diet bud. We've been walking the earth for millennia and will continue to do so. Aside from being healthier, its the only sustainable path for the planet.

Hades: Lol, a lot of venomous B.S there. Any studies to back up those claims?

I'm a lacto-ovo vegetarian so I eat dairy(the most bioavailable form of protein). In addition, I eat a ton of fresh veggies, fruits and healthy fats like walnuts. You wanna point out where I'm nutritionally deficient?

The comical truth is Americans don't want to let go of their steaks. There's nothing in meat you can't get from other sources.

Lacto-ovo isn't the worst thing out there, but sure, I have evidence to back up my claims.

http://atlanta.cbslocal.com/2014/04/01/s...at-eaters/

Quote:Quote:

Overall, vegetarians were found to be in a poorer state of health compared to other dietary groups. Vegetarians reported higher levels of impairment from disorders, chronic diseases, and “suffer significantly more often from anxiety/depression.”

Quote:Quote:

A new study from the Medical University of Graz in Austria finds that vegetarians are more physically active, drink less alcohol and smoke less tobacco than those who consume meat in their diets. Vegetarians also have a higher socioeconomic status and a lower body mass index. But the vegetarian diet — characterized by a low consumption of saturated fats and cholesterol that includes increased intake of fruits, vegetables and whole-grain products — carries elevated risks of cancer, allergies and mental healthdisorders.

Here's the actual study:

http://www.plosone.org/article/fetchObje...tation=PDF
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#36

Starch based diet

I'd say the 30 bananas a day diet would be the worse.
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#37

Starch based diet

Quote: (04-01-2014 10:31 AM)rottenapple Wrote:  

The main argument against this is indeed that the starch they ate in those times is nothing like what we have on offer now. If you read 'wheat belly', it is explained in detail how for instance bread right now is nothing like its ancessor. Look up a picture of ancien corn, you will see the difference very clearly. The starch we have now, became so complex in it's structure that it became very hard to digest, which then causes all kinds of problems in our bodies and along with the high sugar content make that we are susceptible to diseases. Genetic modification has made all these foods incredibly cheap and resistent and most of these products are concentrated in a few companies (Monsanto is well known off course) who are as good as it gets when it comes to lobbying, hence there is propaganda for these types of food in the whole western world. It wouldn't surprise me if this guy is linked somehow as well.

So yes starch could have been very useful in ancient times and no today it is definitly not. Dairy however is also not beneficial to your health, with few exceptions such as non-cow milk and cottage cheese. Enough scientific literature about that.

In general the ideal diet based on all the reading I have done (which is a lot) consists of clean meat, fish (small fish in general), nuts, vegetables, fruit and legumes in general (paleo). It is high in protein and fats and relatively low in carbohydrates, especially white ones.

The problem in this diet on a personal level could be that depending on where you live it is more expensive. The problem on a societal level is that meat is industry heavy. Clean meat for all individuals is in the current food system not an option, due to cost and space limitations (and moral issues as well for some people). Meatfactories as we have now in general are easier, but the quality is lower and even now for many people on this planet meat is a luxury. A difficult problem to overcome, but a first step in the right direction if you ask me would be to manage subsidies better and to tax on unhealthy food. People who are unhealthy are a big cost to society, hence taxing on sugar, colourants, etc. would make the cost of maintaining this lifestyle higher. Simultaneously subsidies for vegetables and other good sources of food can become incentives for people to go in that direction. Advantages of scale can then be used to produce these foods more efficiently without loss of quality.

Plenty more to be said about this, but in general the food industry today is very fucked up and it takes a lot of work to educate yourself properly on how to eat well. A strange thing that I've noticed is that now in many developing countries the well off people actually eat a lot better than in Western world. Fi in many countries in Africa, the main diet is fruit, legumes and vegetables and if you can afford it meat (grassfed) and fish. Whatever other products they produce locally are also likely to not have been modified genetically as much as the ones we have in Western world. Off course if you are highly educated in the topic and have money to spend, you will still have the best options in the Western world, but then we are talking about perhaps 1% of the population.

I just run across this thread and read it.

I ALMOST hate to bump the thread b/c it contains quite a bit of disputes and dietary distraction information, yet I sense that the thread begins in that argumentative vein b/c the subject was being sparked and framed by emphasizing vegetarianism - and worse if you take vegetarianism to the next extreme, which in this case appears to be veganism.

Rottenapple's above post was amongst the best of the thread to attempt to redirect.

Also, Maciano's mentioning Gary Taubes helps to shed better light on the issue regarding how mainstream scientists seem to frequently in the business of distorting studies in order to lie to us in the names of profits.

Surely, there seems to be some role for starches in the diet, and I have also come around to that thinking - especially after reading through KGalt's resistance starch thread.


O.k. I do NOT necessarily want to spend considerable time pointing out all the informative nutrition threads on RVF, but I have the sense that a large majority of RVF members seem to realize that having some good meats and fats in their diets is good for a man's health (and a woman's health for that matter too - it is probably more enjoyable to bang healthy, fit and fertile woman).

I think the point of understanding about starch and resistance starch is that these foods do NOT serve well in being a majority of the diet. The resistance starch thread shows that some starch is probably a good thing for the good gut flora. Personally, I believe less than 25% of carbs in the diet is probably adequate for many guys, but some guys, including younger growing guys may be able to tolerate higher amounts of carbs possibly even going up to 50% or more of carbs in their diets. I used to eat a lot more carbs; however, the last three years, I have cut back b/c I realize that they begin to cause a lot of issues for guys as they age.... and focusing too much on getting nutrients from carbs is likely going to lead a lot of people (men and women) to have health issues as they age.
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#38

Starch based diet

There is some recent science showing that the REAL paleo diet was actually 90 to 95% protein and fat, at least in non-tropical zones....

In my personal experience I've tried just about everything. I was vegetarian for a year back when I was a teenager, got real sick with asthma and nearly died, then later on I was macrobiotic for 9 months, same thing. In both cases I got better DAYS after adding the meat back in.

I tried the Zone in the 90s, I had slow but steady fat loss, but got stuck at around 15%, right when i was ABOUT to really be in shape. Fell off the wagon again. Then tried "Paleo" later on, worked better but harder to stick to.

What has worked best for me is the ketogenic diet. The fat melts off me, I can literally notice the difference day to day. The problem is it requires a LOT of discipline in today's day and age. You go into the grocery section of your typical Walmart for example, and most of the meat has soy fillers or cornstarch fillers, so even eating a peace of ham is actually an act of consuming tons of carbs.

Someone asked what is missing if you cut out meat? What's missing is precisely that, getting your protein and fat in WITHOUT a bunch of empty carbs messing it up! There are no non-animal sources of PURE protein/fat.
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#39

Starch based diet

I really enjoyed this article:

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/...chaeology/

I realize that the article is about neanderthals, but:

http://discovermagazine.com/2013/march/1...anderthals
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#40

Starch based diet

Quote: (07-29-2014 11:54 AM)SteveCR Wrote:  

I really enjoyed this article:

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/...chaeology/

I realize that the article is about neanderthals, but:

http://discovermagazine.com/2013/march/1...anderthals


The "neanderthal poop" article seems to state matters in a non-controversial matter to confirm what is already suspected that there is a combination of meat and plant in the diet. There also seems to be a larger number of parasites than may be tolerable today - however, I am NOT sure whether that would be controversial, either - if sources of food and drink may be quite a variety of states of freshness.

It is a bit surprising that so much can be concluded from 50,000 year old feces.
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