[DonRoberto]

He may be pushing his book, but this doctor says some quite sensible stuff about ADHD:

Quote:

In France, a study in 2004 found 84 per cent of children diagnosed with ADHD were iron deficient, compared with 18 per cent of 'non-ADHD' children. Yet time and time again, doctors miss the real problems - some serious, some easily correctable - by automatically reaching for the ADHD label.
In my book, I identify more than 20 causes of the symptoms that are called ADHD.

He also identifies many many other misdiagnoses such as the kids actually needing glasses or hearing aids, etc. etc.

I wonder how many kiddies who are merely bored with liberal brainwashing at school are being made to pop Ritalin daily just so doctors and pharmaceutical companies can get the cash?

There is also the other cause of ADHD this guy doesn't mention - in my experience rich parents never accept having kids who are just not smart, little jimmy always has some kind of special 'problem' that requires 'treatment'...

Anyway, what does anyone else here think? Anyone drugged up as a child think their condition was all BS?

Here is the link to the story:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/articl...-good.html

edited for bad typing

[It_is_my_time]

I remember as a child in the 1980's, only one boy in my entire class of about 30 boys had to take ADHD pills. And we had 4 recesses a day, so the boys could get out and be active as boys are supposed to be.

Today the kids get like one recess and are over prescribed these pills making big pharma richer and causing lord knows what kind of long term damage to these boys.

More and more, I simply do not want to raise kids in the USA. Just seems like a bad place to raise a family.

[Mage]

The system is so badly constructed. False premises made upon false premises.

The schooling system is a horrible half-prison for children that destroys their creativity and right hemisphere thinking, while giving little in terms of real knowledge in return. Mixed sex classes are disastrous for boys who are forced to behave like girls.

On top of this behemoth of fallacies west now has this drugging system to force children to bend to this torture. In a progression of lies, society has make the lie of schooling system being effective a dogma and then it needs to invent drugs to make children comply with this schooling system because it goes against dogma that boys would be naturally ill suited for sitting in school desks for best part of the day. So naturally the must be declared sick and treated with drugs.

Mainstream world is nothing but layers and layers of lies build upon layers of lies.

[spalex]

I have always said that ADHD is just a shitty parents excuse for not beating their childs ass.

[Thomas the Rhymer]

I've prescribed ritalin.

Generally, the best child to give ritalin to is the family that really doesn't want ritalin. A lot of families go through a hell of a lot of dietary and lifestyle changes in order to accommodate their child and it's only when the child is clearly failing at studying that they reluctantly ask for a prescription. I generally also ask the child what they want - kids are often wiser than we give them credit for, and they often understand exactly what they are getting into and what the medication is supposed to achieve.

It's a very bad idea to give ritalin to a family that is enthusiastic about the idea. There are usually other problems that need to be addressed, and the parents are usually not alright themselves. You have to be a healthy parent (physically and mentally) in order to have healthy kids, as a rule of thumb.

In a person with ADHD, with actual abnormalities of brain structure that lead to impulse control problems, ritalin is non-addictive. These kids grow up into responsible adults who use ritalin only on an as-needed basis, when studying for an exam or something like that. They usually go into field of work that suits them and their shortened attention spans and their need to move. It's like giving morphine for severe pain - when there is genuine pain present, morphine is almost never addictive. It's only addictive in the absence of pain.

In people without ADHD, giving them ritalin appears to cause a euphoric effect that predisposes them to a lot of problems later in life, and can potentially be the precursor/gateway drug to a lifelong addiction problem.

Ritalin at one point was fashionable and was terribly overprescribed and people's lives damaged, but thankfully ritalin is no longer fashionable and many people, in my community at least, are too embarrassed to openly talk about ritalin. Indeed, having a kid on ritalin is in my community is equated with bad parenting, a prejudice which is sometimes true, but often not.

In appropriate circumstances at low doses, ritalin has really helped some kids, especially when the lifestyle has been adequately addressed (and a healthy lifestyle is, I believe, a prerequisite to having a good response to ritalin in the first place).

Of course, the greater problem is that society is structured around regimented institutions such as schools and corporate workplaces, but I can only help my patients adapt to the environment, I don't have much control over their environmental circumstances.

[___]

Came to this conclusion a while ago after working extensively with people/families under the ADD/ADHD label.

I call it Absentee Dad Disorder (physically or emotionally).

[Panteleimon]

(03-13-2014 04:21 AM)spalex Wrote:  

I have always said that ADHD is just a shitty parents excuse for not beating their childs ass.

This is more true than you know. I got one sharp hand to the rear in second grade when teacher complained I wasn't trying hard enough. Needless to say, there wasn't anything but A's on my transcripts until I was a sophomore in college. A lesson well learned.

[Menace]

This post makes me think of something else medically related: the different standards of care between countries, and I'm not talking about US vs. 3rd world shit hole, but US vs. Germany, or US vs. France, for example. I stumbled upon the blog of an Canadian girl who ended up marrying a German guy, and she was relating her experiences of being hospitalized in Germany as compared to Canada....I think she may have broken a leg or something...it was not life threatening. It was really interesting how Germans view privacy, follow-up care, even the kind of crutches they use in Germany are different.

Does anyone know of a source that does this kind of comparison for commonly seen medical conditions?

[Hispanic_Reasoning]

(03-13-2014 10:01 AM)Menace Wrote:  

This post makes me think of something else medically related: the different standards of care between countries, and I'm not talking about US vs. 3rd world shit hole, but US vs. Germany, or US vs. France, for example. I stumbled upon the blog of an Canadian girl who ended up marrying a German guy, and she was relating her experiences of being hospitalized in Germany as compared to Canada....I think she may have broken a leg or something...it was not life threatening. It was really interesting how Germans view privacy, follow-up care, even the kind of crutches they use in Germany are different.

Does anyone know of a source that does this kind of comparison for commonly seen medical conditions?

can you post a link for that blog?

[Uzisuicide]

Now autism is the new ADHD. They called my son ADHD back in '01. I was the same as him in school but they just called me a pain in the ass.

[Ensam]

The next time someone complains about how society is keeping girls down with words (see: Ban Bossy) remind them that society has taken to medicating boys.

[EisenBarde]

Nutrition is huge, when your "breakfast" consists of a plain cream cheese bagel stuffed with hot cheetos, there's no way in hell everything is okay chemically in your body.

A big portion of it, too, is a bit of a cop out excuse a lot of swpl type parents make for their kid not being that smart to begin with. A big game of "It's NOT MY FAULT" really.

The real game changer was the changing expectations of boys. Years ago they tracked the "troublesome" one into woodshop classes taught by the teachers with the best ability to keep them in line, usually a football coach. Now they get pushed into double-block english classes with an inexperienced female teacher and it's a surprise to me that the suicide rate in this country is as low as it is.

[Titan]

(03-13-2014 09:45 PM)EisenBarde Wrote:  

Nutrition is huge, when your "breakfast" consists of a plain cream cheese bagel stuffed with hot cheetos, there's no way in hell everything is okay chemically in your body.

To add to this most people in America (and a growing trend in my country) eat dessert for breakfast. A bowl of cereal, some kind of dairy and a processed juice is what these people think as a "healthy" breakfast. We just fall for the cereal marketing with statements such as "high in fiber", "contains 12 different grains" and some other bullshit which hides the fact that basically all cereal contains absurd amounts of sugar.

And as we all know sugar fucking sucks. Personally I don't eat that stuff at home but I remember when sleeping at some friends houses and eating that shit for breakfast I felt tired the entire day and with the attention span of a fucking bumblebee. And I actually suffer from ADHD (I don't use ritalin though, I'd rather sell it or snort it heh) so I know about shitty attention spans but I gotta say that starting your day with a sugar-filled breakfast makes thing 1000% worse.

TLDR: Fuck Sugar.

[Ingocnito]

Agreed on the sugar part, it's so obvious, and excessive lactose or anything resembling a simple sugar or carb.

I once had a meeting with my boss, a VP of a successful powerhouse business in our state. He unwittingly fell into part of the conversation speaking of how he gave his son behavior control drugs for ADHD starting at an early age.. like ages 6-11 or something.

Well his kid said to him once he was well into puberty that:"Dad, I just wanted you to know, thanks for getting me off those drugs, I was so damn high for hours after taking them every day that I felt like a zombie."

I find it sad when parents are so wrapped up in their careers that they jump to giving their kids these drugs after a smug diagnosis from a so-called "doctor." It's truly changing society and our future young men.

[spalex]

No shit its in the diet!

... Behaving like a cunt that is.

You give any kid some ice cream, cookies, soft drink and just what them turn into little shits that wont stop running around, screaming and fucking shit up.

If I ever have a kid, I'm not going to let it have sugar until its like... 15.

[Thomas the Rhymer]

(03-14-2014 04:34 AM)spalex Wrote:  

If I ever have a kid, I'm not going to let it have sugar until its like... 15.

I know a few parents who basically have refused to feed their kids sugary stuff, and by age 7/8 these kids actually have an aversion to sweets. I think their brains end up being wired differently, they don't perceive strong sweetness as being pleasant.

[Moma]

(03-14-2014 04:38 AM)Thomas the Rhymer Wrote:  

I know a few parents who basically have refused to feed their kids sugary stuff, and by age 7/8 these kids actually have an aversion to sweets. I think their brains end up being wired differently, they don't perceive strong sweetness as being pleasant.

Are we talking about fructose or sucrose, Thomas? How does fructose fair on the human brain? Same opiate effect or different?

[SteveCR]

(03-14-2014 04:38 AM)Thomas the Rhymer Wrote:  

(03-14-2014 04:34 AM)spalex Wrote:  

If I ever have a kid, I'm not going to let it have sugar until its like... 15.

I know a few parents who basically have refused to feed their kids sugary stuff, and by age 7/8 these kids actually have an aversion to sweets. I think their brains end up being wired differently, they don't perceive strong sweetness as being pleasant.

My 3 year old son gets fresh fruit daily, all the fruit he wants, actually. But his added-sugar intake is limited. He really likes an ice cream cone from the ice cream man, or some homemade cookies. 1-2 times a week is about what he averages, and I can definitely tell when he's at his grandparents house and they give him sweets - he's bouncing off the wall like crazy when he gets back home.

But we don't keep sweets at home, we just don't buy them in bulk. We'll buy them as treats individually. I remember being a kid and Halloween was freaking awesome, because it was one of the few times of the year that we got to eat so much candy! But nowadays, it's everywhere, and it's no longer a treat; it's being used in place of meals, being consumed multiple times daily.

[Thomas the Rhymer]

(03-14-2014 07:32 AM)Moma Wrote:  

(03-14-2014 04:38 AM)Thomas the Rhymer Wrote:  

I know a few parents who basically have refused to feed their kids sugary stuff, and by age 7/8 these kids actually have an aversion to sweets. I think their brains end up being wired differently, they don't perceive strong sweetness as being pleasant.

Are we talking about fructose or sucrose, Thomas? How does fructose fair on the human brain? Same opiate effect or different?

Naturally occurring fructose doesn't seem to be a problem. I've never seen anyone binging out on fruits.

Fructose syrup though is as bad as sugar, in my opinion.

[BIGINJAPAN]

(03-14-2014 07:32 AM)Moma Wrote:  

(03-14-2014 04:38 AM)Thomas the Rhymer Wrote:  

I know a few parents who basically have refused to feed their kids sugary stuff, and by age 7/8 these kids actually have an aversion to sweets. I think their brains end up being wired differently, they don't perceive strong sweetness as being pleasant.

Are we talking about fructose or sucrose, Thomas? How does fructose fair on the human brain? Same opiate effect or different?

haha.. you are asking a doctor about nutrition ?

might as well ask a politician what a balance sheet looks like while you are at it

[Thomas the Rhymer]

(03-15-2014 01:46 AM)BIGINJAPAN Wrote:  

(03-14-2014 07:32 AM)Moma Wrote:  

(03-14-2014 04:38 AM)Thomas the Rhymer Wrote:  

I know a few parents who basically have refused to feed their kids sugary stuff, and by age 7/8 these kids actually have an aversion to sweets. I think their brains end up being wired differently, they don't perceive strong sweetness as being pleasant.

Are we talking about fructose or sucrose, Thomas? How does fructose fair on the human brain? Same opiate effect or different?

haha.. you are asking a doctor about nutrition ?

might as well ask a politician what a balance sheet looks like while you are at it

Touche!



I admit I'm not a nutritionist, but I know a little bit about nutrients, especially when it relates to disease.

Of course, if you're not making mistakes then you're not learning - so maybe I get it wrong from time to time.

But yes, anyone and everyone is always free to disagree with what I say. That's how we grow in knowledge, by sharing ideas, and figuring out where we may be wrong and reinforcing where we may be right.

[WanderingSoul]

Kids are not meant to sit inside for 8 hours a day studying. Especially when what they are teaching could easily be condensed into less than half of that time.

Schools are sheep factories, churning out brainwashed clones to contribute to the economy and not disrupt the status quo.

[Suits]

I'll tell my story and share my thoughts.

When I was 20 and in college, a classmate described her condition to me, ADHD. A lot of what she described sounded very familiar. I did some more research and started to understand a few new things about myself.

I grew up in a pretty healthy family. Money was always tight, so there weren't a lot of cool Christmas gifts, but my parents spend what little money they did have on proper nutrition and there was one movie a week, which we watched as a family and no video games.

When we did get a computer, I used it to create my own programs and didn't spend hours playing games.

I'd say that my childhood was very healthy, at least compared to literally all my peers.

And yet, somehow I had enough ADHD symptoms to clearly fit the definition of the condition.

I hadn't been an out of control child. I'd just daydreamed a lot and struggled to complete tasks.



The conclusion that I've come to is that ADHD/ADD is an umbrella that probably covers a whole lot things that probably shouldn't fall into the same category.

I'm not sure if poor parenting causes some forms of ADHD/ADD or if it just aggravates the condition.

In my family's case, despite parents who basically sacrificed their own goals and happiness for their five children, three of us have been diagnosed with ADHD/ADD.

My speculation is that in the extreme cases, it is a disorder. But for most people, it is just a different way for a brain to be setup.

Unfortunately, this type of brain doesn't exist well in a society where we sit children in neat rows five days a week for the first 22 years of their life.

Most of congress is believed to fall within the bounds of ADHD/ADD and they've been saying that long before the current gridlock occurred.

When 25% of people have a "condition" I think it's time to accept that it may simply be a facet of humanity.

[DonRoberto]

Now another prominent guy who claims ADHD does not exist is meeting members of the British Government this week:
First thre paragraphs

Quote:

One of the world's leading neuroscientists, whose work has been acknowledged by work and pensions secretary Iain Duncan Smith, has suggested that attention deficit hyperactivity disorder (ADHD) is not "a real disease".

On the eve of a visit to Britain to meet Duncan Smith and the health secretary, Jeremy Hunt, Dr Bruce D Perry told the Observer that the label of ADHD outlined a broad set of symptoms. "It is best thought of as a description. If you look at how you end up with that label, it is remarkable because any one of us at any given time would fit at least a couple of those criteria," he said.

Prescriptions for methylphenidate drugs, such as Ritalin, which are used to treat children diagnosed as suffering from ADHD, have soared by 56% in the UK, from 420,000 in 2007 to 657,000 in 2012. Such "psychostimulants" are thought to stimulate a part of the brain that changes mental and behavioural reactions

Here is the link

[xpatplayer]

(03-16-2014 02:24 PM)Suits Wrote:  

I'll tell my story and share my thoughts.

When I was 20 and in college, a classmate described her condition to me, ADHD. A lot of what she described sounded very familiar. I did some more research and started to understand a few new things about myself.

I grew up in a pretty healthy family. Money was always tight, so there weren't a lot of cool Christmas gifts, but my parents spend what little money they did have on proper nutrition and there was one movie a week, which we watched as a family and no video games.

When we did get a computer, I used it to create my own programs and didn't spend hours playing games.

I'd say that my childhood was very healthy, at least compared to literally all my peers.

And yet, somehow I had enough ADHD symptoms to clearly fit the definition of the condition.

I hadn't been an out of control child. I'd just daydreamed a lot and struggled to complete tasks.



The conclusion that I've come to is that ADHD/ADD is an umbrella that probably covers a whole lot things that probably shouldn't fall into the same category.

I'm not sure if poor parenting causes some forms of ADHD/ADD or if it just aggravates the condition.

In my family's case, despite parents who basically sacrificed their own goals and happiness for their five children, three of us have been diagnosed with ADHD/ADD.

My speculation is that in the extreme cases, it is a disorder. But for most people, it is just a different way for a brain to be setup.

Unfortunately, this type of brain doesn't exist well in a society where we sit children in neat rows five days a week for the first 22 years of their life.

Most of congress is believed to fall within the bounds of ADHD/ADD and they've been saying that long before the current gridlock occurred.

When 25% of people have a "condition" I think it's time to accept that it may simply be a facet of humanity.

Thanks a lot for this reply. I get extremely emotional when talking about ADD and ADHD medication. I was diagnosed with ADHD multiple times as a young child. All my doctors prescribed ritalin and all my teachers suggested I had ADHD.

Today, if there's one thing I'm grateful to my parents for, its not getting me on ritalin or adderall. Everyone I kow today (late-teens and early-20s) who has been on ADHD medication is emotionally unhealthy. They are either chronically depressed or have an incapability to empathize with other people.

My story was similar to Suits'. Never was destructive, but was (and still am) very right-brained. I was always daydreaming and could never pay attention to boring classes but somehow always did better on standardized tests than all the other kids. When it came to high school, I aced the standardized tests (top 1% in the SAT nationally) but did ok in my classes.

If I want to work on something, I will sit down for hours and create something great. When I don't want to, I will procrastinate until the last moment and do half-ass job. Not the best strategy to succeed academically but a great strategy for what I want to do once I graduate. I still fulfill my responsibilities but cannot do well for myself on something I don't like, even though I can do so for a team.

What am I trying to get at? Its simple - ADHD medications create drones out of the most creative members of society, often with destructive results. I'm extremely happy that the mainstream is finally taking note of this. Pretty sure society will be healthier if we get rid of this abomination.