[Stun]

Hey guys, so it's time that I contributed a little more to the forum, as the forum has given me a lot.

OK so there are a lot of NYC threads, and a lot of California threads, but I haven't seen one that highlights NY from a Californian's perspective. I go to NY a lot, but am CA based, so I thought I would drop a quick thread on what Cali guys should expect to see in terms of differences.

This was originally written as a series of PMs from me to one of the NY members, but nothing in the notes would identify him. I wrote this while I was in NY recently, so it's a very fresh perspective. Here are my notes:


"Hey man I am little brain dead today from drinking 3 days in a row, but I will send you some of my thoughts as they come to me. I'm a bit scattered at the moment, but I noticed some stuff right away that stands out.

There are a lot more alpha guys here. They don't necessarily have more game than SF guys, I would argue they actually have less. But night game here is very different because you have a lot of guys trying to talk to girls whereas in SF you have a lot more guys who are afraid to approach.

The girls here are on a much wider spectrum of showing interest vs disinterest. Girls have straight up stared at me here, which doesn't really happen at home - even a girl who is very interested in you will maybe give you a glance at best. On the flip side, girls who didn't want to talk to me or my buddy here were not subtle about their disinterest. We got a few one word answers where the girl immediately walked away.

Girls are a lot more yes/no here. A California girl who's not really interested in you will often hang around and let you talk her into it. I don't really see girls here doing that.

Girls are not afraid to beta their boyfriends here, which is kind of fucked up. A few girls have straight up stared at me while walking with their boyfriends. A girl in CA would be a lot more subtle normally.

My initial impression is that masculinity is respected here. So is outspokenness. I can't really say that about home.

On the 3rd day of trying to figure out why I was getting ignored so much, I started changing the way I move and walk. Started walking more aggressively, more of an open stance. More of a come-at-me attitude. More attitude in general. More of a pissed off arrogant look on my face, even if I wasn't feeling that way exactly. This made a huge difference in how girls responded and were willing to talk to me.

My impression is that you have to be more aggressive and that if you aren't here then forget it, because the other guys are.

There is also a wider age range of girls showing interest here. Teenage girls at one point - that would almost never happen in SF."

"Money seems to also matter more so here. I think there are more gold diggers here. I feel like showing off that you have money here would be more effective than at home.

A lot of things you can be blatant about here are things you have to be more subtle about in sf."

"Basically to summarize it, I noticed that masculinity is respected here in NY, whereas out there if you come off as too hyper masculine you will come across too buffoon-ish. Out here I noticed no matter how much I jacked up the attitude, the walk, the swagger, etc it didn't come off as a negative with the girls. Whereas at home girls will often roll their eyes at that shit.

I didn't get any notches from the bars while I was out here, but my next to last night in the city I banged my airbnb hostess. We pre-gamed at her apt, then went out, got smashed in the city. Lol!"

[Nolecbo]

Good write-up. Useful to know how I should adjust my game if I travel.

[slubu]

(03-05-2014 04:19 PM)Sugar Wrote:  

OK so there are a lot of NYC threads, and a lot of California threads, but I haven't seen one that highlights NY from a Californian's perspective. I go to NY a lot, but am CA based, so I thought I would drop a quick thread on what Cali guys should expect to see in terms of differences.

I wrote about it before, from an LA guy's perspective here.

I do agree generally with your observations too, I've noticed it as well especially the directness of the girls.

[Stun]

^ Your write-up is solid, and confirms my suspicions that it's even better when you live there. Probably the only US city where you would get tired of broads and need to take time off.

I couldn't put up with the weather at this time of the year, but May-early November NYC rocks.

[TheRookie]

(03-05-2014 04:19 PM)Sugar Wrote:  

Girls are a lot more yes/no here. A California girl who's not really interested in you will often hang around and let you talk her into it. I don't really see girls here doing that.

Very true - it is easy to waste time on a set. A girl will size you up and if you are wanting the look of disgust or plain disinterest on her face will be evident. Walk away from these sets while keeping a wry smile on your face. If they insult you it is best to insult them back and walk away with a smile to save your dignity and confidence.

(03-05-2014 04:19 PM)Sugar Wrote:  

My initial impression is that masculinity is respected here. So is outspokenness. I can't really say that about home.

Masculinity is generally respected here but there is also a lot of fake masculinity. Many men are insecure and putting up a crude and brash front - think of low rent ghetto thugs, nouveau riche types, and Ed Hardy boyz types. There are not a lot of gentleman so you constantly need to test men for true masculinity - seek out the gentleman and be generous towards the good types and do not be generous to shysters or girly men (do not cast pearls before swine).

(03-05-2014 04:19 PM)Sugar Wrote:  

On the 3rd day of trying to figure out why I was getting ignored so much, I started changing the way I move and walk. Started walking more aggressively, more of an open stance. More of a come-at-me attitude. More attitude in general. More of a pissed off arrogant look on my face, even if I wasn't feeling that way exactly. This made a huge difference in how girls responded and were willing to talk to me.

This reminds me of a Roosh post about how in the future only fame game or steroid game will work. In NYC the women are not looking for provider types at all. But ironically, they are surrounded by hard-working provider types. If you come across as a provider or needy, they will not hide their disgust. To even get a hearing with girls in NYC, you need to have a certain attitude. It doesn't have to be pissed off but it needs to be confidence and swagger. It also helps to be wearing fashionable clothing. It seems harsh the first 50 times you are rejected but it is actually a great incentive to improve your fashion and the way you carry yourself. If you can learn these things and survive in NYC I am guessing it makes things easier elsewhere.

(03-05-2014 04:19 PM)Sugar Wrote:  

"Money seems to also matter more so here. I think there are more gold diggers here. I feel like showing off that you have money here would be more effective than at home.

A lot of things you can be blatant about here are things you have to be more subtle about in sf."

I don't know how much money matters per se in attracting NYC women - but with money you can access the top venues where the beautiful women hang out and also dress fashionably.

[deathtofatties]

I'm still trying to get a programming job in NYC so I can relocate. NYC sounds like "poosy paradise" the way some have described it. But I don't want to make the leap and commitment with a job there if it may not be poosy paradise for me. Different people excel in different places, right?

[Yeti]

NYC is a good place to be young and free, and a very difficult place to be old. Mostly because of the very high cost of living and because everyone is in a goddamn rush.

I was walking up the stairs behind a slow-moving, old woman on a cane. I wanted to say hurry up or something, and then I remembered that she was using a fucking cane.

In NYC, the guys who do best with lots of women tend to present themselves as the opposite of that old woman - young, fast-moving, and wealthy. That means aggressive usually, though women here don't generally understand that aggressive does not necessarily mean successful, fast-moving does not necessarily mean better. Bitches here burn out after a few years and move back to Ohio - this corresponds with the types of men to whom they are drawn. They don't think long-term.

I agree that a lot of men here are masking weakness. A lot of men here are fucking morons. I need to meet some RVF members.

[TheBulldozer]

It's important to present a clear definition of who you are and attract girls into that. I present myself as an in shape, stylish guy who knows the city inside and out, but is also an adventurous world traveler. Wax your style and experiences to fit your personality and you'll find plenty of women who are into it, regardless of what your interests are.

I notice guys who shape shift themselves into whatever that specific girl probably digs can't pull it off here.

[Stun]

^ I wouldn't say you should completely change who you are venue to venue or girl to girl - but subtle changes to your vibe in unfamiliar locations will probably benefit you more than hurt you.

[Stun]

(03-06-2014 04:30 PM)deathtofatties Wrote:  

I'm still trying to get a programming job in NYC so I can relocate. NYC sounds like "poosy paradise" the way some have described it. But I don't want to make the leap and commitment with a job there if it may not be poosy paradise for me. Different people excel in different places, right?

I wouldn't move somewhere based on the amount of pussy you will be getting.

You might hate the cold like me for example, i.e. no amount of hot girls would make me want to live in NY in the winter.

You should visit first for an extended period of time (min 2 weeks) and make sure you like it before relocating..

[deathtofatties]

(03-07-2014 03:23 PM)Sugar Wrote:  

(03-06-2014 04:30 PM)deathtofatties Wrote:  

I'm still trying to get a programming job in NYC so I can relocate. NYC sounds like "poosy paradise" the way some have described it. But I don't want to make the leap and commitment with a job there if it may not be poosy paradise for me. Different people excel in different places, right?

I wouldn't move somewhere based on the amount of pussy you will be getting.

You might hate the cold like me for example, i.e. no amount of hot girls would make me want to live in NY in the winter.

You should visit first for an extended period of time (min 2 weeks) and make sure you like it before relocating..

I'd be coming from place where most of the women are extremely over weight, ugly, trashy, and inbred. I guess dealing with one extreme pushes this man toward another.

I want young white girls that are pretty and fit/thin. NYC seems like the best place to get them.

I should visit, but that'd be too expensive for me. I can only get money from my family to go somewhere if I get a job.

[speakeasy]

NYC sounds cool from what guys are saying. But one thing that I don't like about NYC in the times I've been there is the whole hustle and bustle live-to-work bee in a hive vibe of the place. Cars honking non-stop, everyone impatient, shoving and in a hurry.

A place like SF is bustling as well, but it has that California laid-back live-and-let-live vibe to it that I like. We've already discussed the downsides of SF however so I won't rehash them.

SF sucks for women, and NY sounds great, but as a city, I'd take SF any day of the week because of the freer and more laid-back vibe, the mild climate and the fact that NYC has no scenic beauty to speak of.

[deathtofatties]

What would be a good compromise between the two?
A city that has:
Hot young girls that are DTF for guys with game + laid back, chill, and good weather?

Is there a place where, with a few small compromises, a man could have the best of both worlds? Maybe Austin TX? Maybe Chicago? How about Tempe Arizona with all the ASU poon?

[Yeti]

(03-07-2014 05:23 PM)deathtofatties Wrote:  

What would be a good compromise between the two?
A city that has:
Hot young girls that are DTF for guys with game + laid back, chill, and good weather?

Is there a place where, with a few small compromises, a man could have the best of both worlds? Maybe Austin TX? Maybe Chicago? How about Tempe Arizona with all the ASU poon?

Austin is full of conformist white people with beards/black-rimmed glasses who think they're pleasantly weird. They're just annoying.

Chicago, I'm not sure. Tempe is cool but way too small. You'd get bored.

Look, I've lived in NYC for long enough to know that it's not somewhere to stay long-term, for most of us anyway. I'm feeling down today because of the late winter blues, but also because of bullshit NYC garbage. I don't know if I'll want to stay here. NYC is a good place to make your money and get out, much like America generally.

Having said that, I don't know where else in America I'd want to live - I just kind of ended up here because:
1) I tried my hands at the rednecks in the south, and saw way too many fat people deep-fat frying their Snickers bars,
2) conformist Californians annoy me, and
3) there's opportunity here to become whoever you'd like.

This is a good city but it's not as cool as it used to be, in some ways. It used to be edgier and more fun. NYC is becoming more regulated and blase. Manhattan especially is becoming an island for the very poor (public housing, etc.) and the very rich. Mike Bloomberg moved here as someone not at all of means, as a young man - he got an apartment in Manhattan. There's no way he could afford to do that now.

/rant

[speakeasy]

Fuck it, there's no decent place to live left in America. My new plan: I'm gonna buy a dirt cheap farm in the middle of the Texas panhandle, grow my own food and then start a cult and run cult guru game and build a harem. This is the next level lifestyle.

[deathtofatties]

(03-07-2014 06:18 PM)speakeasy Wrote:  

Fuck it, there's no decent place to live left in America. My new plan: I'm gonna buy a dirt cheap farm in the middle of the Texas panhandle, grow my own food and then start a cult and run cult guru game and build a harem. This is the next level lifestyle.

David Koresh game? That is some next level shit.

[Clint Barton]

(03-06-2014 07:06 PM)MaleDefined Wrote:  

It's important to present a clear definition of who you are and attract girls into that. I present myself as an in shape, stylish guy who knows the city inside and out, but is also an adventurous world traveler. Wax your style and experiences to fit your personality and you'll find plenty of women who are into it, regardless of what your interests are.

I notice guys who shape shift themselves into whatever that specific girl probably digs can't pull it off here.

Yup what MaleDefined(and Slubu in his linked post) said. I grew up in SoCal, went to university in LA, and even lived some of my post-college years there. Its a bit difficult to compare experiences because there is a big difference between young-20s LA Clint and a mid-30s Clint who now lives in NYC.

That said, I can't see myself moving back to Cali anytime soon. I was in SF/LA/SD and even with the great weather, it just doesn't appeal to me as it did in my youth. Maybe one day if I ever want to settle.

Anyways, you don't need to be wealthy in NYC but it helps to have strong goals/ambitions and work towards achieving them. The girls here dig that. If you enjoy living in a dense metropolis, keep upping your lifestyle, and keep improving your game, then NYC becomes the best city in the US(IMHO), and one of the best in the world, to live your life, kick ass in your career, and game women.

[TheRookie]

NYC is a huge learning curve - don't think you will step foot in the city and get laid if your game isn't that tight. I had a lot of beginner's luck and then a hard sophomore slump where I had to learn that my game wasn't that good and I wasn't that cool. Have put in the work on my game and myself and am starting to see better results.

I agree with MaleDefined and Clint - you need a strong identity and ambition in NYC. A girl just isn't going to give you the time of day if you are unsure about yourself or not confident, whereas in other places girls might find you endearing or cute and be patient with your flaws. In NYC if you don't have a strong identity and you try to shape shift you can come across as a conman or phony. A good place to find what you are really made of and what kind of person you want to be.

[Yeti]

(03-09-2014 11:34 PM)Clint Barton Wrote:  

Anyways, you don't need to be wealthy in NYC but it helps to have strong goals/ambitions and work towards achieving them. The girls here dig that. If you enjoy living in a dense metropolis, keep upping your lifestyle, and keep improving your game, then NYC becomes the best city in the US(IMHO), and one of the best in the world, to live your life, kick ass in your career, and game women.

Great analysis of life in NYC.

I recall a debate somewhere about Tampa being the best place in the U.S. somehow, because you can live on a boat for $50,000. That's cool, but...

NYC is where you go to be alive, to live the hustle, to be who you were meant to be. As long as it's May-October - the winters here are the time for everyone to languish and suffer. But it depends - every situation is different. You can have a very good life here even without a surfeit of cash - if you get set up in the right apartment, in the right neighborhood, and with the right commute.

You can game here without spending $$$$$$ - online dating helps, and the first-date bang recipe. A night like that costs maybe $30. All the while working hard, upping your style, and expanding your social and professional circles.

You've got to really plan it though, and have the drive to live through the serious lows. And I'm still not convinced that it's a good long-term city. I don't even think NYC is that cool anymore, it's just a place with very good opportunities. I've been to cooler cities - Osaka in some ways. Bogota (better women). Berlin...

What I like about NYC is that there's always going to be an in for the motivated individual, in pretty much any career field in which he takes an interest. You can live without health insurance in a shared apartment (your own room) in far Queens for $400-500, eat very simply, and commute every day to an internship in Manhattan, while working part-time at night. A lifestyle like that won't cost more than $1200 per month - anyone can afford that. If you work hard at your internship (or whatever) and take the long game approach, you'll work your way up. And the most normal of dudes from Podunk, Nebraska can do that - anyone with drive can do that. I really like that about NYC - it's a place to make something out of nothing, to exceed the expectations that others had for you.

Then you can life the $100k/year lifestyle, with the posh apartment in Manhattan, eating out at fine establishments, keeping up with fashion, summers spent with connections in the Hamptons. If that's your thing.

Which is one of the reasons that America is still a good country.

[Brodiaga]

(03-11-2014 08:43 PM)Yeti Wrote:  

Then you can life the $100k/year lifestyle, with the posh apartment in Manhattan, eating out at fine establishments, keeping up with fashion, summers spent with connections in the Hamptons. If that's your thing.

More like $300k/year, IMO.

[Yeti]

(03-11-2014 08:50 PM)Brodiaga Wrote:  

(03-11-2014 08:43 PM)Yeti Wrote:  

Then you can life the $100k/year lifestyle, with the posh apartment in Manhattan, eating out at fine establishments, keeping up with fashion, summers spent with connections in the Hamptons. If that's your thing.

More like $300k/year, IMO.

That's true. I think $100k here is comfortable - just. An income that allows you to not worry about money, but not go mad either.

[TheBulldozer]

I think the experience of non-native NYCers and NYC transplants needs to be broken down and examined because it's almost as if you're writing about two different things when talking about costs of the city.

The greatest currency in NYC is your network. NYC has a 'common' experience and a 'connected' experience. You can find the 'connected' experience if you're new here but it requires an enormous amount of cash.

However, if you're well connected in the city, and I mean that in every facet of your life, both professionally, and personally, you can access that 'connected' experience merely because of your network.

When it comes to moving to NYC, don't listen to my posts about living here. I've left messages saying you can do it on a smaller salary, but it's different for me because I can access that network.

You'd laugh at my COL living in NYC.

I can live a life under 100k here that is representative of a transplant making 500k here, just as a brief example of what I'm talking about.

[Brodiaga]

MaleDefined: can you give some examples of how a "connected" experience can help save so much money? I mean, I get it that some people live in rent controlled apartments for a fraction of the market rate, but other than that... it's not like in South East Asia where there are different prices for locals and foreigners.

[Clint Barton]

I can give one example of what MaleDefined is talking about, as a transplant. For the Big Brothers Big Sisters' Young Professionals Committee black tie event that I posted about and went to a few weeks ago, another prominent forum member rolled out, as well as his friend, who grew up out here. They both got in for FREE because the local friend "knew people", while I paid the $150 ticket.

I'm guessing that if you grew up around here and are well-connected, you've got: insider access and a front line to best jobs and professional leads, real estate connects for the best apartments at the lowest rates, multiple clubs and bartenders on lock, insider knowledge of exclusive events, possibly better prices on drugs, and a whole bunch of stuff I can't even imagine.