[MHaes]

Everything made in Argentina is stamped with "Industria Argentina."

Anything stamped with that falls apart after 3 months of use.

[Tigre]

As the old joke goes... there's a huge fortune to be made buying argentinos for what they are worth and selling them for what they think they are worth.

[Hencredible Casanova]

Simon Black made an interesting post about the latest articles about Argentina.

http://www.sovereignman.com/trends/it-ri...ail-13510/

It really hit close to home because he analogized it to the Big Brothers program, something that I have also been apart of.

Though my mentee didn't wind up going to jail

He did have a kid while still in high school though. But considering his environment, that's not the worst that could have happened.

[beta_plus]

With some distinctly British looking "Hitler Finds Out..." inspired subtitles.

[[email protected]]

I heard about the Argentinian story recently from another source. The basic premise was that there was a high ranking military person that introduced socialism and from then on it kept snowballing the gibs because any new politician that didn't offer gibs ended up losing to the ones that did and the country just progressively crumbled.

[KnjazMihailo]

I'm not so sure Argentina is really declining. This all honestly seems to be quite exaggerated with a lot of people being upset at socialism (not that i'm a fan of socialism).

While i do not know too much about Argentina or Latin America for that matter, to call it declining, especially compared to the Anglosphere or West Europe, just seems like a silly attempt by people from these places to pretend that "Oh look, they're doing worse than us!" in order to distract from their own problems.

Its true that Argentina has serious economic issues, but in many other ways its in a better state than the Anglosphere and West Europe. It does not have the non-European migration problem that the Anglosphere and West Europe do. Its true that they have population decline issues and an unfortunately recently intensified push of feminism, but their country is still more homogeneous than any country in the previously aforementioned groups are.

Of course, this could always change for the worse in the future as NGO's try to promote and encourage non-european migration into Argentina.

[CynicalContrarian]

As this was a rather old thread initially. What is the current state of play in Argentina?

[KnjazMihailo]

(04-29-2019 05:19 AM)CynicalContrarian Wrote:  

As this was a rather old thread initially. What is the current state of play in Argentina?

I don't really know.

You're going to have to ask someone else or browse through the most current content on the Argentina threads.

[Going strong]

(04-29-2019 05:19 AM)CynicalContrarian Wrote:  

As this was a rather old thread initially. What is the current state of play in Argentina?

The current state of play is the usual one: troubled (though secretly, not so bad).

And as always, one could sum it all by: the Argentinians who have (savings in) USD fare very well, and those who couldn't save hard money in USD, are in some (relatively moderate) trouble, because of the inflation (perceived and felt in pesos).

For most travelers in any case, Argentina remains a very good, safe destination, providing one brings hard currency and good temper.

Politically, it seems almost possible that the "she-horse" Cris might win the election later this year, thus providing a life-line to Maduro (if Maduro survives six months) and communism on the continent. But I bet that eventually and reasonably, intelligent center-Right Macri will actually win re-election, with just enough help from Lagarde and the FMI (to somehow stabilize the peso).

[MrLemon]

(04-29-2019 06:41 AM)Going strong Wrote:  

(04-29-2019 05:19 AM)CynicalContrarian Wrote:  

As this was a rather old thread initially. What is the current state of play in Argentina?

The current state of play is the usual one: troubled (though secretly, not so bad).

And as always, one could sum it all by: the Argentinians who have (savings in) USD fare very well, and those who couldn't save hard money in USD, are in some (relatively moderate) trouble, because of the inflation (perceived and felt in pesos).

For most travelers in any case, Argentina remains a very good, safe destination, providing one brings hard currency and good temper.

Politically, it seems almost possible that the "she-horse" Cris might win the election later this year, thus providing a life-line to Maduro (if Maduro survives six months) and communism on the continent. But I bet that eventually and reasonably, intelligent center-Right Macri will actually win re-election, with just enough help from Lagarde and the FMI (to somehow stabilize the peso).

Meanwhile, Argentinian women remain the most gorgeous in South America in my biased view. Hard to get, but gorgeous.

[Mekorig]

In the last years you get a proliferation of tattoed femi-troskists around Bs As, and some more normal women showing their weak comitment to the feminism by using the green scarf of abortism tied in the backpacks. But at the end of the day, they still kove to be gamed, and to get some spanking when you are fucking them.

[Swordfish1010]

RVF Argentina meetup?

[Cr33pin]

(04-29-2019 12:42 PM)Swordfish1010 Wrote:  

RVF Argentina meetup?

If its in the next month... Buenos Aires is just a quick ferry ride away from where I am

[BBinger]

(04-29-2019 04:13 AM)KnjazMihailo Wrote:  

I'm not so sure Argentina is really declining. This all honestly seems to be quite exaggerated with a lot of people being upset at socialism (not that i'm a fan of socialism).

While i do not know too much about Argentina or Latin America for that matter, to call it declining, especially compared to the Anglosphere or West Europe, just seems like a silly attempt by people from these places to pretend that "Oh look, they're doing worse than us!" in order to distract from their own problems.

Its true that Argentina has serious economic issues, but in many other ways its in a better state than the Anglosphere and West Europe. It does not have the non-European migration problem that the Anglosphere and West Europe do. Its true that they have population decline issues and an unfortunately recently intensified push of feminism, but their country is still more homogeneous than any country in the previously aforementioned groups are.

Of course, this could always change for the worse in the future as NGO's try to promote and encourage non-european migration into Argentina.

Argentina is roughly the US's future. A gradual frog boiling punctuated with acute crises. It's not just the socialism. It's the sort of economic populism the Perons and Kristinas accustomed the people to which is a huge cultural problem.

In 2006 Argentina decided to make severe cut to beef exports for the duration of a minor crisis out of a fear that Argentinos would become priced out of eating beef. Exporting beef outside of certain treaty obligations was prohibiting and as a result Argentine beef exporting never quite recovered. Argentina imagined itself an industrial power that didn't need to concern itself with mere agricultural exports.

Now Argentina is a soy exporter, does feedlot beef like the US, and is structurally poorer for taking a shoot from the hip measure in the name of economic populism more than a decade ago.

The way the labor movement works in the southern cone is that the Unions and Sydicates promote the idea that anything done in the name of labor is above the reach of the law. Many true believers will reminisce about Labor victories that amount to driving out foreign factories and businesses in a net loss of jobs for the country.

Here in Uruguay a group of workers at the Petrobras owned Montevideo Gas plant are trying to seize the plant under "worker control" and the main trade union PIT-CNT has their president going out and condemning the Uruguayan government and courts for having the police evict the looters. The grievance which started the seizure involved sanctions against some employees fucking around with a rifle on the grounds of the plant which lead to attempted firings, and now Petrobras is selling all of their service stations in Uruguay. For added context Uruguay doesn't have its own fossil fuels hiding in the ground. They all get imported. The workers are seizing a gas plant dependent on imported Natural Gas. Sure the gas network is small and most people get propane in tanks from "Rio Gas" instead limiting the number of folks who are going to be cold, but the situation is a serious WTF. But... this shit is embedded in the culture of a large part of the region's population.

It's hard to weigh the migration issues affecting Europe versus the cultural issues of Argentina. While some good things of European culture survive in the Southern cone, a lot of the immigrants from Europe were poor and from poor cultures. Many of them seem to have settled into a sort of passive Urbanity warehousing themselves in and around Buenos Aires instead of going into the massive expanses of Argentine land and developing the country.

On the plus side there's a lot of beautiful unspoiled land in Argentina. That this land wasn't developed after 1914 because everyone wanted to crowd in the city instead is great for nature lovers, but most pessimum for Argentina's economic trajectory.

(04-29-2019 06:41 AM)Going strong Wrote:  

(04-29-2019 05:19 AM)CynicalContrarian Wrote:  

As this was a rather old thread initially. What is the current state of play in Argentina?

The current state of play is the usual one: troubled (though secretly, not so bad).

And as always, one could sum it all by: the Argentinians who have (savings in) USD fare very well, and those who couldn't save hard money in USD, are in some (relatively moderate) trouble, because of the inflation (perceived and felt in pesos).

For most travelers in any case, Argentina remains a very good, safe destination, providing one brings hard currency and good temper.

Politically, it seems almost possible that the "she-horse" Cris might win the election later this year, thus providing a life-line to Maduro (if Maduro survives six months) and communism on the continent. But I bet that eventually and reasonably, intelligent center-Right Macri will actually win re-election, with just enough help from Lagarde and the FMI (to somehow stabilize the peso).

Since I arrived in Uruguay less than two years ago I have watched the Argentine peso go from well above the peso Uruguayo to well below. I don't know that there's any hope for stabilizing the Argentine peso beyond trying to move into a more Uruguayan situation where its depreciation simply happens in a more gradual fashion.

Anyways, yes Argentina is economically sad and there is little hope Argentina is ever going to become less sad. This doesn't mean its a bad place. Just don't work for Argentines, employ Argentines, or invest in Argentina further than satisfying needs and wants you have when in Argentina.

[Going strong]

(04-29-2019 05:13 PM)BBinger Wrote:  

Just don't ... invest in Argentina

One notable exception though: investing in Real Estate, especially in a good neighbourhood of Buenos Aires (or Cordoba, Mendoza).

If you have enough hard currency and some knowledge, you could buy a nice apartment in the right area of BsAs, for say 150.000 usd, and very probably sell it at some point (in a not-so-distant future) for a nice profit (in any case, price will never fall, on good property). Or just keep the apartment for yourself, as a survival base if and when Western Europe falls... Argentina can and will survive the civilizational fall of Western Europe, heck it would even prosper and strive from it, WWII-like.

[911]

True, you'd be buying at the ground floor, with the caveat that you have to check the legal landscape, especially as a foreigner.

In Venezuela, prices have been at rock-bottom but have already gone up because speculators think regime change is coming.

[Mekorig]

(04-29-2019 12:42 PM)Swordfish1010 Wrote:  

RVF Argentina meetup?

If we gather enough people, why not? I dont plan to leave the city in the near/mid future (to my dismay).

[Going strong]

(04-30-2019 09:33 AM)911 Wrote:  

True, you'd be buying at the ground floor, with the caveat that you have to check the legal landscape, especially as a foreigner.

In Venezuela, prices have been at rock-bottom but have already gone up because speculators think regime change is coming.

Not really buying at the ground floor, as far as Buenos Aires is concerned. Owners of apartments in BsAs stand their ground quite well, so local prices have only lost say 10% (in dollars, all properties are quoted in USD), but hey, it's something (a 10%-gain for the foreign buyer) - and prices will climb at some point, probably once the engineer Macri is re-elected.

As to the legal landscape, no particular problem there. Argentina respects the usual laws of property, and titles of property have full and sufficient value. Only difficulty would be to bring the foreign money into an Argentinian bank account, and for that you would need local help (and come to think of legal aid on the ground, well, our local expert Mekorig certainly would know about this).

[911]

You have to look into things like rent control and eviction rights, AirBnB local rules, nonresident taxation laws if you're planning on renting your place out as a foreign investor. If you're an expat though, it sounds like buying is a non-brainer.

[BBinger]

(04-30-2019 10:38 AM)Going strong Wrote:  

(04-30-2019 09:33 AM)911 Wrote:  

True, you'd be buying at the ground floor, with the caveat that you have to check the legal landscape, especially as a foreigner.

In Venezuela, prices have been at rock-bottom but have already gone up because speculators think regime change is coming.

Not really buying at the ground floor, as far as Buenos Aires is concerned. Owners of apartments in BsAs stand their ground quite well, so local prices have only lost say 10% (in dollars, all properties are quoted in USD), but hey, it's something (a 10%-gain for the foreign buyer) - and prices will climb at some point, probably once the engineer Macri is re-elected.

As to the legal landscape, no particular problem there. Argentina respects the usual laws of property, and titles of property have full and sufficient value. Only difficulty would be to bring the foreign money into an Argentinian bank account, and for that you would need local help (and come to think of legal aid on the ground, well, our local expert Mekorig certainly would know about this).

I wouldn't buy anything in Argentina or Uruguay that I wasn't interested in living in. In light of the culture its hard to tell if the prices aren't moving for because buyers are still buying, or if its the Argentine cultural overvaluation of what they have. A number of property types over here in Uruguay have seen slow downwards price movement since I started looking last year.

There's two big reasons I wouldn't want to hold property in this region as an investment:

1. The laws around squaters would make evicting any that capture an unattended property a costly matter
2. Units in my new construction apartment building are listed for sale around 100,000 to 120,000 USD. I've been paying 450-400 USD a month in peso demoninated rent (since I'm in Uruguay it will go up a set percent on the lease anniversary). Mortgage rates here are quite a bit above those in the US and require quite a bit down. The math just doesn't seem to support holding property for rental income when so many other things in the world offer better rates of return.
   

Buying property for my own use, enjoyment, or business is a stretch goal on the 5-year plan that may carry over to the next 5 year plan. I have substantial reservations about classing such a purchase an an investment.

[Going strong]

(04-30-2019 12:46 PM)911 Wrote:  

You have to look into things like rent control and eviction rights, AirBnB local rules, nonresident taxation laws if you're planning on renting your place out as a foreign investor. If you're an expat though, it sounds like buying is a non-brainer.

Note that I was referring to buying for keeping the apartment (and use it yourself) or re-selling it later on, for a reasonable profit. Or just keeping one's Argentine apartment empty and available, for if and when a civil war starts somewhere in Western Europe, as a backup solution.

Now, concerning renting, well, everywhere in the developed world, the people you rent your apartment to, have many rights and can become a pain in the neck. In Argentina, Sweden, Germany, wherever, tenants can somehow partially fuck you over, using the legal system.

Mind you, if you ever really need a bad tenant, who don't pay the rent, quietly removed from your Argentinian apartment, I hear there are ways, there are (not even especially violent) ways and people who can do it, for a moderate fee. The police could not be bothered to investigate, if the eviction is done quickly but with moderation. Actually they don't investigate anything, or if they miraculously do, no trial ever goes to completion (ask any motochorro).

[Heuristics]

I have heard that the liberalism and SJWism in Argentina are in an advanced stage at this point... apparently these marxist tendencies are spreading across the continent. I don't know whether this is true or not.

But a classmate of mine who was heavily SJW went down there to live, participate in pride parades, liberal activism, veganism and drinking of high priced faggot hipster coffee. Likely a bad omen if it's on the map for liberal american girls.

[BBinger]

(04-30-2019 05:48 PM)Heuristics Wrote:  

I have heard that the liberalism and SJWism in Argentina are in an advanced stage at this point... apparently these marxist tendencies are spreading across the continent. I don't know whether this is true or not.

But a classmate of mine who was heavily SJW went down there to live, participate in pride parades, liberal activism, veganism and drinking of high priced faggot hipster coffee. Likely a bad omen if it's on the map for liberal american girls.

Here in Montevideo it is mostly a "middle" to "upper" class kid thing the girls in the city do. Except less coffee and more Yerba mate.

[Hypno]

(02-16-2014 10:11 PM)assman Wrote:  

(02-16-2014 09:44 PM)Corroncho Wrote:  

The Economist is definitely anti-Argentina and anti-socialism across the board

Really? Did they call for no TARP, no QE, etc. (because bailing out the 'TBTF' banks is most definitely socialism)?

Give this man a cigar.

You are correct, the Economist is an establishment, big government, Deep State rag.

[AsiaBaller]

Looks like one of the nicest European influenced cities I have seen from this walking vid, but apparently it's designated to get flooded with the lower classes from neighboring countries as well.

Easily beats Manhattan, the trash heap that is Paris or Londonistan.