[Saweeep]

(08-17-2014 10:48 AM)samsamsam Wrote:  

(08-17-2014 10:18 AM)CrashBangWallop Wrote:  

I do 12 rounds pad work per day with one of my staff.

Staff as in butler?

On a serious note, CBW how many days a week do you train twice a day?

I am trying to get on that schedule but hesitant to do heavy upper body on a boxing day. I'll do heavy legs or cardio in the morning on a day I plan on boxing.

On a side note, I have been away for a week and miss hitting the bag. I finally pulled the plug on those gloves. Can't wait to use them this week.

One of my businesses is a martial arts one so got plenty of excellent pad men sitting around all day pretending to work

I train three times per day 5 days per week. I take weekends off. I run a 3 day split weightlifting and rotate it so that over a three week period I do each split 5 times.

I run every night after weights. I know people say this is not optimal but it works for me.

The way I see it is my body has just gotta be able to handle the workouts…it has no choice. My advice to you would be to just crack on with it and wait for your body to adapt (in Thailand 5/6 hours training per day is the norm, 6 days per week).

I'm naturally tall and broad shouldered and a classic "look at a pizza and put on weight" body type so my goals are weight control, fitness and confidence (my confidence goes down if I stop the martial arts irrespective of strength etc).

Weekends are pretty indulgent for me and to make it guilt free I train like an athlete during the week.

As I said above, though, I'm lucky that my life is structured around this madness, not the other way around.

[DVY]

Do people still get concussions when wearing headgear?

[Saweeep]

(08-18-2014 03:28 AM)DVY Wrote:  

Do people still get concussions when wearing headgear?

Yeah.

As I mentioned on the previous page, this is a contentious issue.

Lots, including the ABA think that head guards increase concussive impacts due to a larger sphere (head plus head guard) increasing the rotational force. Hence no head guards in boxing at the recent Commonwealth games.

It's a difficult one as they certainly help with cosmetic injuries.

[samsamsam]

(08-18-2014 06:41 AM)CrashBangWallop Wrote:  

It's a difficult one as they certainly help with cosmetic injuries.

Chicks dig scars

[ddjembe mutombo]

(02-14-2014 01:59 PM)thedude3737 Wrote:  

So I pulled the trigger and signed up to a boxing gym for the next month. To get my money's worth I'm planning on going 5 days a week. I currently lift mon-wed-fri.

I was planning on continuing my lifting routine and then hitting the boxing gym afterward. Would anyone recommend against this? I don't want to fuck up a muscle by lifting heavy for an hour and then working on a bag for an hour, but maybe that's an irrational fear.

Basically looking to hear from guys that lift and train martial arts simultaneously and if there's an ideal way of going about it.

Does the boxing gym have any weight lifting times? The one I attend has group weight lifting times on the schedule.

I wouldn't worry about lifting for an hour then boxing for an hour though. You will be much slower as a beginner because you will be concentrate mostly on technique. Depending on the hour boxing class, you could possibly do it five times a week. Some are more intense than others.

[Saweeep]

(08-19-2014 11:14 PM)ddjembe mutombo Wrote:  

(02-14-2014 01:59 PM)thedude3737 Wrote:  

So I pulled the trigger and signed up to a boxing gym for the next month. To get my money's worth I'm planning on going 5 days a week. I currently lift mon-wed-fri.

I was planning on continuing my lifting routine and then hitting the boxing gym afterward. Would anyone recommend against this? I don't want to fuck up a muscle by lifting heavy for an hour and then working on a bag for an hour, but maybe that's an irrational fear.

Basically looking to hear from guys that lift and train martial arts simultaneously and if there's an ideal way of going about it.

Does the boxing gym have any weight lifting times? The one I attend has group weight lifting times on the schedule.

I wouldn't worry about lifting for an hour then boxing for an hour though. You will be much slower as a beginner because you will be concentrate mostly on technique. Depending on the hour boxing class, you could possibly do it five times a week. Some are more intense than others.

I'd go 3 times the first week.

If you haven't boxed before you will hurt in places you didn't know existed if the workout if relatively intense.

When I haven't hit the pads for a while it always shocks me how much my shoulder (jab shoulder) and the little muscles in my back hurt the day after.

In fact, my left shoulder is bigger than my right shoulder and it really pisses me off (although I'm the only one who can notice it) from the years of jabbing. No amount of isolation bodybuilding exercise on the right can seem to fix it.

Charge it to the tough guy game I guess

[viajero]

(08-20-2014 08:39 AM)CrashBangWallop Wrote:  

When I haven't hit the pads for a while it always shocks me how much my shoulder (jab shoulder) and the little muscles in my back hurt the day after.

In fact, my left shoulder is bigger than my right shoulder and it really pisses me off (although I'm the only one who can notice it) from the years of jabbing. No amount of isolation bodybuilding exercise on the right can seem to fix it.

Any tips on building strength and explosiveness in that shoulder for the jab?

I feel like that's limiting me when I try to double or triple up the jab.

[Saweeep]

(08-20-2014 09:30 AM)viajero Wrote:  

(08-20-2014 08:39 AM)CrashBangWallop Wrote:  

When I haven't hit the pads for a while it always shocks me how much my shoulder (jab shoulder) and the little muscles in my back hurt the day after.

In fact, my left shoulder is bigger than my right shoulder and it really pisses me off (although I'm the only one who can notice it) from the years of jabbing. No amount of isolation bodybuilding exercise on the right can seem to fix it.

Any tips on building strength and explosiveness in that shoulder for the jab?

I feel like that's limiting me when I try to double or triple up the jab.

When I'm coaching (I am a kickboxing coach though, not a boxing coach), it is normally footwork and balance that makes people struggle with double/triple jabs. I.e. technique.

Another common mistake is trying to hit the first jab of the sequence too hard which messes up the timing and rhythm.

To be honest it's impossible to say without seeing you in action; there are just so many things, often really small things, that can be messing it up.

Do you have a decent coach?

[viajero]

(08-20-2014 09:45 AM)CrashBangWallop Wrote:  

(08-20-2014 09:30 AM)viajero Wrote:  

(08-20-2014 08:39 AM)CrashBangWallop Wrote:  

When I haven't hit the pads for a while it always shocks me how much my shoulder (jab shoulder) and the little muscles in my back hurt the day after.

In fact, my left shoulder is bigger than my right shoulder and it really pisses me off (although I'm the only one who can notice it) from the years of jabbing. No amount of isolation bodybuilding exercise on the right can seem to fix it.

Any tips on building strength and explosiveness in that shoulder for the jab?

I feel like that's limiting me when I try to double or triple up the jab.

When I'm coaching (I am a kickboxing coach though, not a boxing coach), it is normally footwork and balance that makes people struggle with double/triple jabs. I.e. technique.

Another common mistake is trying to hit the first jab of the sequence too hard which messes up the timing and rhythm.

To be honest it's impossible to say without seeing you in action; there are just so many things, often really small things, that can be messing it up.

Do you have a decent coach?

Yeah, I have a good coach and work the technique, but I feel that same soreness in the left shoulder and back, and I'm thinking there might be some conditioning stuff I could do just for that. Never possible to have too good a jab.

This partly gets into a whole other issue, but I think a lot of the best boxing coaches here in the States are old-school boxing guys who don't always know a ton about modern strength and conditioning.

[Giovonny]

(08-20-2014 09:30 AM)viajero Wrote:  

Any tips on building strength and explosiveness in that shoulder for the jab?

The power of the jab actually starts from the legs.

Footwork is essential.

"Snapping" the jab like a whip is actually a process that incorporates the entire body.

The power is generated by the legs, this power is transferee through the core, and finally, all that power should be extended and exploded through the fist.

Strength and explosion is a total body process.

---

To increase the power, stamina, and explosion of my jab, here are some things that worked for me:

1) Shadow boxing in a swimming pool (water up to neck)
2) Shadow boxing while holding 2.5 pound weights (or 5 pound weight)
3) Jabbing while my hand is connected to weighted cables or giant rubber bands
4) Jogging with my hands held above my head
5) Working my legs and core {squats, power cleans, over head press, etc.)
6) Yoga/stretching to increase flexibility and body control
7) Dancing
8) Running up sand dunes while holding weights

(08-20-2014 08:39 AM)CrashBangWallop Wrote:  

In fact, my left shoulder is bigger than my right shoulder

You should jab with your right hand.

Turn southpaw.

I do this every time I am in the gym. As soon as my left arm gets tied from jabbing, I turn and fight southpaw. I have been doing this my whole life.

It allows the entire left side of your body to rest and allows you to attack with the fresher side of your body.

I have learned to jab with either hand.

Alot of people say that this is difficult to learn but with a bit of practice, most people can pick it up easily.

I admit, years of soccer and basketball helped me to pick up the footwork.

(08-20-2014 09:30 AM)viajero Wrote:  

I feel like that's limiting me when I try to double or triple up the jab.

Honestly, the double/triple jab is mostly about footwork and core explosion.

The arm is just an extension of the body's powers.

The arm itself should not be forced to generate the power.

Focus on transferring the power from your legs - through the core - out your arms and then quickly coiling and firing again.

The legs control everything, not the arms!

Hope this helps

[Kieran]

(08-20-2014 09:45 AM)CrashBangWallop Wrote:  

(08-20-2014 09:30 AM)viajero Wrote:  

(08-20-2014 08:39 AM)CrashBangWallop Wrote:  

When I haven't hit the pads for a while it always shocks me how much my shoulder (jab shoulder) and the little muscles in my back hurt the day after.

In fact, my left shoulder is bigger than my right shoulder and it really pisses me off (although I'm the only one who can notice it) from the years of jabbing. No amount of isolation bodybuilding exercise on the right can seem to fix it.

Any tips on building strength and explosiveness in that shoulder for the jab?

I feel like that's limiting me when I try to double or triple up the jab.

Another common mistake is trying to hit the first jab of the sequence too hard which messes up the timing and rhythm.

This is usually the problem from what I see around.

There's really no need to throw every jab (or even every punch) with power. Of course you need to be able to throw a good stiff jab to get your opponent's respect, but you also want to use the jab to measure range, disrupt your opponent's rhythm, obstruct his vision to hide the right hand by pawing, use it to see how he responds to the jab so you can set up other big shots with feints etc.

As for imbalances, I'm also a little off. My hips are definitely out of alignment and I have one leg turned out more than the other. I train in the southpaw stance too, but I'd been training boxing 15 years or so before I started, so too little too late I guess. Shoulders are okay though, maybe because I practice throwing the lead right hand a hell of a lot (actually lands more for me than the one-two strangely).

[Enjoythedecline]

(08-20-2014 05:00 PM)Kieran Wrote:  

(08-20-2014 09:45 AM)CrashBangWallop Wrote:  

(08-20-2014 09:30 AM)viajero Wrote:  

(08-20-2014 08:39 AM)CrashBangWallop Wrote:  

When I haven't hit the pads for a while it always shocks me how much my shoulder (jab shoulder) and the little muscles in my back hurt the day after.

In fact, my left shoulder is bigger than my right shoulder and it really pisses me off (although I'm the only one who can notice it) from the years of jabbing. No amount of isolation bodybuilding exercise on the right can seem to fix it.

Any tips on building strength and explosiveness in that shoulder for the jab?

I feel like that's limiting me when I try to double or triple up the jab.

Another common mistake is trying to hit the first jab of the sequence too hard which messes up the timing and rhythm.

This is usually the problem from what I see around.

There's really no need to throw every jab (or even every punch) with power. Of course you need to be able to throw a good stiff jab to get your opponent's respect, but you also want to use the jab to measure range, disrupt your opponent's rhythm, obstruct his vision to hide the right hand by pawing, use it to see how he responds to the jab so you can set up other big shots with feints etc.

Boxing is all about being always in balance. Remember that famous quote by Muhammad Ali : Fly like a butterfly and sting like a bee ?

If you're off balance, you won't be able to skip your opponents punches or to throw a punch effectively.

For the double, tripple jab : You gotta be careful about returning your hand straight to your face between the jabs cause your opponent can smash your face if he times you and you are off guard. The jab is the most important punch in boxing cause you can do so much with it.

And if you want something harder, try to mix upper jab and body jab.

[viajero]

(08-20-2014 03:09 PM)Giovonny Wrote:  

(08-20-2014 09:30 AM)viajero Wrote:  

Any tips on building strength and explosiveness in that shoulder for the jab?

The power of the jab actually starts from the legs.

Footwork is essential.

"Snapping" the jab like a whip is actually a process that incorporates the entire body.

The power is generated by the legs, this power is transferee through the core, and finally, all that power should be extended and exploded through the fist.

Strength and explosion is a total body process.

---

To increase the power, stamina, and explosion of my jab, here are some things that worked for me:

1) Shadow boxing in a swimming pool (water up to neck)
2) Shadow boxing while holding 2.5 pound weights (or 5 pound weight)
3) Jabbing while my hand is connected to weighted cables or giant rubber bands
4) Jogging with my hands held above my head
5) Working my legs and core {squats, power cleans, over head press, etc.)
6) Yoga/stretching to increase flexibility and body control
7) Dancing
8) Running up sand dunes while holding weights

(08-20-2014 08:39 AM)CrashBangWallop Wrote:  

In fact, my left shoulder is bigger than my right shoulder

You should jab with your right hand.

Turn southpaw.

I do this every time I am in the gym. As soon as my left arm gets tied from jabbing, I turn and fight southpaw. I have been doing this my whole life.

It allows the entire left side of your body to rest and allows you to attack with the fresher side of your body.

I have learned to jab with either hand.

Alot of people say that this is difficult to learn but with a bit of practice, most people can pick it up easily.

I admit, years of soccer and basketball helped me to pick up the footwork.

(08-20-2014 09:30 AM)viajero Wrote:  

I feel like that's limiting me when I try to double or triple up the jab.

Honestly, the double/triple jab is mostly about footwork and core explosion.

The arm is just an extension of the body's powers.

The arm itself should not be forced to generate the power.

Focus on transferring the power from your legs - through the core - out your arms and then quickly coiling and firing again.

The legs control everything, not the arms!

Hope this helps

Great post, thank you.

I've tried a few of those things but shadowboxing in water and using resistance bands are things I'm eager to try.

Might try heavier hand weights while shadowboxing, have never gone as high as 5 lbs.

Maybe I'm not explaining myself well, I understand the value of technique and where most of the power comes from, I just can also feel how I fatigue when I keep snapping off the punches.

I've been thinking about turning southpaw a lot lately, I don't know if you watched Terrence Crawford KO Gamboa but that guys ability to switch stances is incredible. Don't know if I have the coordination for it, the straight left feels so awkward.

[the chef]

I agree with everything Gio said, but wouldn't advocate shadowboxing with weights for beginners. If you're still new to the technique of throwing punches holding weights in your hand can really screw up the mechanics. When holding weights in your hands the resistance is going in the DOWNWARD direction towards the floor which can cause you to develop bad technique, an alternative solution is to use resistance bands stretched throughout your back... but even then I still don't think that's a good idea for beginners... For you physics nerds out there think of the free body diagram as a person holds dumbells with their hands. If you're new to training this can really fuck with your development in feeling the movements and intricacies of the technique and develop bad habits.

As a beginner, the only way to get a better jab is to study the mechanics through countless hours shadowboxing, heavy bag work, and double end bag work. Shit, a lot of seasoned pro's still dedicate rounds on the bag just working on jab mechanics.

Without some damn good legs you aren't shit in boxing. You'll fatigue way too easily and won't really hurt anybody if you try to muscle punches with your arms and shoulders. Pretty much everything in boxing from the footwork, power shots, jabbing, slipping and ducking all come from the legs and hips.

Keep deadlifting, squatting (the front squat is the king for boxing as it forces thoracic extension which counteracts the hours in the gym where you're curled up and covered in a defensive stance), power cleaning for explosiveness, and also involve plyometrics, med ball throws, and sprinting. A lot of new cats in the gym on the MMA craze neglect jumping rope, the OG plyometric exercise that is king for developing footwork; as well as long distance running, but I don't know any decent boxer who doesn't do his roadwork.

Also, work on developing strong lats (heavy weighted chinups, strict pullups, rows, etc.) as the lats are the "brakes" that decelerate the punch. Developed lats are necessary for bringing your fists back to fighting position after you throw. Hell... Bruce Lee's lats were one of the most developed muscles in his body.

Always remember to stretch and breathe. I feel naked when I leave the gym without doing a couple of rounds of static stretching.

[Giovonny]

(08-21-2014 12:43 PM)viajero Wrote:  

I fatigue when I keep snapping off the punches.

Okay, so, the issue is stamina.

Your body is not in condition to throw multiple punches in a row.

How to fix this? How to get in better shape?

Increase the quality of your conditioning work!

Make conditioning and fitness the priority. Working on technique will not help your stamina and fitness. You have to design your workouts to eliminate your weaknesses. If stamina and conditioning are the weakness, then the workouts should be tailored to fix those things.

Don't worry about technique.

Sometimes, sheer effort is more important than technique. This is the case for you right now. Stamina is holding you back, so, stamina should be the focus of your training.

A fighter can have perfect technique but if he is not in shape to fight, he will quickly get tired. Once he is tired, a well conditioned fighter with poorer technique will be able to quickly overwhelm him.

In boxing, conditioning is king.

The guy who gets tired is at a disadvantage.

Make conditioning the focus of your workouts, even if your technique suffers a little. Once you have improved your stamina and fitness, you can go back and clean up the technique.

That said, try to maintain good technique at all times, but, right now, conditioning is the most important thing.

Push yourself harder when it comes to conditioning. Make that the focus of your workout.

Do you jog? Jog faster and keep your hands up the whole time.

Do you jump rope? Jump rope faster and harder.

Maybe, wear a oxygen restricting mask to make things harder on yourself:

(the guy on the right is wearing a training mask)



Sprints are great.

Uphill sprints are even better.

Up sand hills are the best.

Up sand hills while holding weights is next level.

Do you spar?

Too many people are afraid to spar with intensity.

In my opinion, sparring is the best way to get in shape for fighting.

Spar with more intensity, throw more punches! Maybe try heavier gloves to make it harder.

Bag work? Do it with more intensity and effort, throw more punches, throw punches with more power.

Worry less about technique and more about stamina.

You can always fix the technique once your stamina has increased.

In a real fight, stamina is more important anyways.

(08-21-2014 12:43 PM)viajero Wrote:  

I've been thinking about turning southpaw a lot lately,


Don't know if I have the coordination for it, the straight left feels so awkward.

Do it.

Don't worry about the straight left.

Just jab with your right until your left side gets a chance to rest, then, turn back to conventional and fight normally.

Turning southpaw for a few seconds just gives you a chance to rest, while at the same time allows you to continue jabbing.

Practice it. Practice the straight left.

Of course, none of this is as important as your conditioning work.

(08-21-2014 01:17 PM)the chef Wrote:  

I agree with everything Gio said, but wouldn't advocate shadowboxing with weights for beginners. If you're still new to the technique of throwing punches holding weights in your hand can really screw up the mechanics.

I agree that shadow boxing with weights can screw up mechanics.

But, sometimes, mechanics are not as important as strength and conditioning.

Shadow boxing can be done for a variety of reasons.. Warm up, visualize, footwork, technique, etc.

In viajero's case, I was recommending shadow boxing for strength and stamina, not for technique.

But, 5 pound weights would be too heavy. Stick to 1 or 2 pound weights for shadow boxing.

Also, hold the 1 and 2 pound weights in your hands while you jog, keep them at shoulder height.

(08-21-2014 01:17 PM)the chef Wrote:  

Without some damn good legs you aren't shit in boxing.

Yes, leg and core strength are everything in boxing.

(08-21-2014 01:17 PM)the chef Wrote:  

Keep deadlifting, squatting, power cleaning for explosiveness, and also involve plyometrics, med ball throws, and sprinting.

Yes, build your body. Condition your body.

These are all great exercises!

(08-21-2014 01:17 PM)the chef Wrote:  

jumping rope

The original and still the king of getting quicker feet.

(08-21-2014 01:17 PM)the chef Wrote:  

Always remember to stretch

I love what you said about stretching and breathing.

Proper breathing will literally increase your stamina.

Proper stretching were literally make you more more loose, limber, flexible, rested and explosive.

[SDGuerro]

Great advice! My trainer had us jump rope in 3min round intervals and do burpees during the 30 second "break". He kept saying mind over matter mind over matter- and it worked. Also, when doing bag work or skipping rope- do the last 30 seconds at 100 %. Punch as fast as you can and jump with high knees and or double jumps and make sure the rope is whistling. The only way to be a beast in the ring with amazing cardio is HARD WORK. It won't be fun and you should feel like shit when starting out- it'll get easier! Keep it up!

[samsamsam]

I think I am enjoying boxing too much. I just mentally tune out the world and focus on it. Which is welcome.

About to go to 3 days a week with my trainer.

And I was thinking of interesting ways to do stuff on my own not at the gym. And stumbled onto this low budget DIY weekend project. I rent so I can't really build a speedbag stand like I want to. But this is something I could do in the garage. But I will probably wear safety glasses so I don't poke eye out with a high speed tennis ball

[Kieran]

(08-21-2014 12:43 PM)viajero Wrote:  

(08-20-2014 03:09 PM)Giovonny Wrote:  

(08-20-2014 09:30 AM)viajero Wrote:  

Any tips on building strength and explosiveness in that shoulder for the jab?

The power of the jab actually starts from the legs.

Footwork is essential.

"Snapping" the jab like a whip is actually a process that incorporates the entire body.

The power is generated by the legs, this power is transferee through the core, and finally, all that power should be extended and exploded through the fist.

Strength and explosion is a total body process.

---

To increase the power, stamina, and explosion of my jab, here are some things that worked for me:

1) Shadow boxing in a swimming pool (water up to neck)
2) Shadow boxing while holding 2.5 pound weights (or 5 pound weight)
3) Jabbing while my hand is connected to weighted cables or giant rubber bands
4) Jogging with my hands held above my head
5) Working my legs and core {squats, power cleans, over head press, etc.)
6) Yoga/stretching to increase flexibility and body control
7) Dancing
8) Running up sand dunes while holding weights

(08-20-2014 08:39 AM)CrashBangWallop Wrote:  

In fact, my left shoulder is bigger than my right shoulder

You should jab with your right hand.

Turn southpaw.

I do this every time I am in the gym. As soon as my left arm gets tied from jabbing, I turn and fight southpaw. I have been doing this my whole life.

It allows the entire left side of your body to rest and allows you to attack with the fresher side of your body.

I have learned to jab with either hand.

Alot of people say that this is difficult to learn but with a bit of practice, most people can pick it up easily.

I admit, years of soccer and basketball helped me to pick up the footwork.

(08-20-2014 09:30 AM)viajero Wrote:  

I feel like that's limiting me when I try to double or triple up the jab.

Honestly, the double/triple jab is mostly about footwork and core explosion.

The arm is just an extension of the body's powers.

The arm itself should not be forced to generate the power.

Focus on transferring the power from your legs - through the core - out your arms and then quickly coiling and firing again.

The legs control everything, not the arms!

Hope this helps

Great post, thank you.

I've tried a few of those things but shadowboxing in water and using resistance bands are things I'm eager to try.

Might try heavier hand weights while shadowboxing, have never gone as high as 5 lbs.

Maybe I'm not explaining myself well, I understand the value of technique and where most of the power comes from, I just can also feel how I fatigue when I keep snapping off the punches.

I've been thinking about turning southpaw a lot lately, I don't know if you watched Terrence Crawford KO Gamboa but that guys ability to switch stances is incredible. Don't know if I have the coordination for it, the straight left feels so awkward.

For me, Terrence Crawford is one of the most promising fighters in the sport today. Been a big fan since seeing him fight a perfect fight against Breidis Prescott, at short notice and above his usual fighting weight. And while Prescott may not be the best around, he is still a very dangerous fighter.

[Kieran]

(08-20-2014 05:21 PM)Enjoythedecline Wrote:  

(08-20-2014 05:00 PM)Kieran Wrote:  

(08-20-2014 09:45 AM)CrashBangWallop Wrote:  

(08-20-2014 09:30 AM)viajero Wrote:  

(08-20-2014 08:39 AM)CrashBangWallop Wrote:  

When I haven't hit the pads for a while it always shocks me how much my shoulder (jab shoulder) and the little muscles in my back hurt the day after.

In fact, my left shoulder is bigger than my right shoulder and it really pisses me off (although I'm the only one who can notice it) from the years of jabbing. No amount of isolation bodybuilding exercise on the right can seem to fix it.

Any tips on building strength and explosiveness in that shoulder for the jab?

I feel like that's limiting me when I try to double or triple up the jab.

Another common mistake is trying to hit the first jab of the sequence too hard which messes up the timing and rhythm.

This is usually the problem from what I see around.

There's really no need to throw every jab (or even every punch) with power. Of course you need to be able to throw a good stiff jab to get your opponent's respect, but you also want to use the jab to measure range, disrupt your opponent's rhythm, obstruct his vision to hide the right hand by pawing, use it to see how he responds to the jab so you can set up other big shots with feints etc.

Boxing is all about being always in balance. Remember that famous quote by Muhammad Ali : Fly like a butterfly and sting like a bee ?

If you're off balance, you won't be able to skip your opponents punches or to throw a punch effectively.

For the double, tripple jab : You gotta be careful about returning your hand straight to your face between the jabs cause your opponent can smash your face if he times you and you are off guard. The jab is the most important punch in boxing cause you can do so much with it.

And if you want something harder, try to mix upper jab and body jab.

Yeah balance is important, and is very closely linked to over-committing to punches; If you allow your weight to travel too far forward, as happens when you over-commit to a shot, then you will be out of position, off balance, and vulnerable to counters. It also makes it much more difficult to get in and out quickly, because you have to turn around so much momentum.

This is one of the reasons beginners are so easy to counter (along with having poor range due to not being loose in the shoulders), because they throw lunging jabs with all their weight, and allow their weight to travel too far forward on the straight right, and therefore can't get back out of range quickly enough to avoid being countered. Obviously there's a time and a place to really sit down as much as you can on your punches, but it's important to realise that you are leaving yourself vulnerable to being countered. For me, if I ever need to really reach with a shot, then I'll often follow with my head down a la Hopkins.

You even see it with top guys. If you take Marquez for example, he often really lunges with his lead hand uppercut, which is a beautiful shot when it lands, but often leaves him out of position and off balance, and I've seen him wobbled with hard shots several times while throwing it. Ricardo Lopez, also Beristain trained, used to get caught sometimes while throwing the exact same shot too.

It helps for beginners to think about not transferring all of their weight forward when throwing punches, and to think of just loading their weight from hip to hip, rather than forward to the knee and right down to the front foot. It's hard to explain with words and is something you really need to get a feel for with each punch as you don't want to limit your range either.

For example, I remember that after several years of training, I still struggled with getting countered with overhand rights when jabbing to the body against quicker fighters, and couldn't understand why because my trainer and I thought my technique was pretty good. It wasn't until a trainer at another camp told me to imagine the footwork when jabbing to the body to be like stepping on a bug to kill it (you know how you kind of stick a leg out and stamp on it, but most of your weight stays on your rear leg, and your lead foot comes back quickly), that it clicked for me. Even though I wasn't letting all my weight come forward, I was putting just a little too much on it, and once it clicked, I stopped getting countered while throwing it, and it's actually one of my favourite punches now.

[viajero]

deleted

[viajero]

(08-22-2014 11:53 AM)viajero Wrote:  

(08-21-2014 02:28 PM)Giovonny Wrote:  

Okay, so, the issue is stamina.

Your body is not in condition to throw multiple punches in a row.

How to fix this? How to get in better shape?

Increase the quality of your conditioning work!

Make conditioning and fitness the priority. Working on technique will not help your stamina and fitness. You have to design your workouts to eliminate your weaknesses. If stamina and conditioning are the weakness, then the workouts should be tailored to fix those things.

Man, you guys are killing it with the advice, good to see we have some guys who really know a lot about the sweet science.

Gio, and the Chef you're right on conditioning-I think what I'm trying to say, specifically, is I lack arm endurance. I've been an athlete my whole life and my conditioning is good, my legs too. My core strength was lacking but is coming back fast-however, I've never done anything that requires the arm endurance to keep punching clean and crisp for minutes at a time. Lots of sports require arm strength but a lot of the guys that started around the same time I did have a ton of gym strength but start letting their hands drop real quick, I'm guessing this is something a lot of new guys struggle with.

Anyway, it sounds like the old school ways are still best. Yesterday I did a few extra rounds on the bag and shadowboxing after some technique work, I liked that since the technique was fresh in my mind I didn't get too wild, but really got myself to that point that I didn't want to throw or keep my hands up anymore.

Kieran-I think what you said makes a lot of sense. I feel much more explosive when I really feel the jab through the hips. It's kind of tricky because you don't exaggerate the twisting motion so much like you do on power punches, but I'm working on it.

[the chef]

the "step on a bug" cue is great for learning how to throw a jab. gets a lot of beginners to pick up that everything starts with the legs up. one of my favorite cues for teaching the left hook is telling a beginner to swing your front foot like "you're putting out a cigarette butt"... really gets them to generate that torque.

for me personally, the only way i developed a better endurance was to actually put in the rounds of boxing and bag work. strength and conditioning work is done so i can build my body and train harder and be more explosive for the hours spent of rigorous training; it's not a substitute for the rounds spent actually throwing punches. doing 50 reps on a bench press doesn't really translate to being able to throw 100 quality shots in a round. you build endurance in boxing by putting in the hours learning the art of boxing. strength and conditioning come second to that.

"punch out drills" done with a parter are great for increasing your punch output. find a buddy and take turns throwing jabs for 10 seconds straight, and basic combos (1,1,2,3 or 1,2,1,2) for 15 seconds straight. also, whenever the 30 second timer goes off towards the end of a round throw 1,2,1,2's as hard as you can and sustain that until the timer goes off for the rest time. don't forget to put in at least 2 rounds of speed bag work as this really teaches you to keep your hands up and keep a constant rhythm with your upper body.

[Giovonny]

(08-22-2014 12:00 PM)viajero Wrote:  

got myself to that point that I didn't want to throw or keep my hands up anymore.

That is the point where improvement begins.

The most important punches of your workouts will be the punches you throw after that point.

Pushing through that barrier will be a psychological test for you. Your physical conditioning depends on your mental toughness.

I am reminded of the famous Muhammad Ali quote about training:

"I go til I can't go anymore, then, I am halfway done"

(08-22-2014 12:27 PM)the chef Wrote:  

you build endurance in boxing by putting in the hours learning the art of boxing. strength and conditioning come second to that.

I agree that boxing endurance is best acquired through boxing.

However, in a real boxing match or in a real street fight..

Conditioning is second to none.

A fighter who is in great shape has a huge advantage over a fighter who is not in good shape. Technique and form is secondary.

If you are not in great shape, your technique will quickly breakdown.

I would describe it like this..

If you want to learn to art of tactical boxing, practice technique.

If you want to be prepared to actually win a fight or defend yourself, be in great shape.

If you want to be really good at winning boxing matches, you must have both

There is really no right or wrong answer here.. The key is that each of us address are own specific weaknesses and prepare ourselves to win whatever fights we will be facing..

(08-22-2014 12:27 PM)the chef Wrote:  

"punch out drills"

Yes, this is what viajero needs to built his "arm endurance"!

[samsamsam]

(08-22-2014 01:20 PM)Giovonny Wrote:  

(08-22-2014 12:00 PM)viajero Wrote:  

got myself to that point that I didn't want to throw or keep my hands up anymore.

That is the point where improvement begins.

The most important punches of your workouts will be the punches you throw after that point.

Pushing through that barrier will be a psychological test for you. Your physical conditioning depends on your mental toughness.

I am reminded of the famous Muhammad Ali quote about training:

"I go til I can't go anymore, then, I am halfway done"

Thanks Gio. Explains why my trainer only does mitts with me after he was worn me out on heavy bag, treadmill and 1lb weights and shit. I always thought it was so he could smack me around

I also find it sort of funny that the gym erupts in noise and output once that 30 seconds to go timer goes off.

[viajero]

(08-22-2014 01:20 PM)Giovonny Wrote:  

(08-22-2014 12:00 PM)viajero Wrote:  

got myself to that point that I didn't want to throw or keep my hands up anymore.

That is the point where improvement begins.

The most important punches of your workouts will be the punches you throw after that point.

Pushing through that barrier will be a psychological test for you. Your physical conditioning depends on your mental toughness.

I am reminded of the famous Muhammad Ali quote about training:

"I go til I can't go anymore, then, I am halfway done"

(08-22-2014 12:27 PM)the chef Wrote:  

you build endurance in boxing by putting in the hours learning the art of boxing. strength and conditioning come second to that.

I agree that boxing endurance is best acquired through boxing.

However, in a real boxing match or in a real street fight..

Conditioning is second to none.

A fighter who is in great shape has a huge advantage over a fighter who is not in good shape. Technique and form is secondary.

If you are not in great shape, your technique will quickly breakdown.

I would describe it like this..

If you want to learn to art of tactical boxing, practice technique.

If you want to be prepared to actually win a fight or defend yourself, be in great shape.

If you want to be really good at winning boxing matches, you must have both

There is really no right or wrong answer here.. The key is that each of us address are own specific weaknesses and prepare ourselves to win whatever fights we will be facing..

(08-22-2014 12:27 PM)the chef Wrote:  

"punch out drills"

Yes, this is what viajero needs to built his "arm endurance"!

I also like "I don't count my sit-ups, I only start counting when it starts hurting."

For now, my goals aren't too set, I just want to learn the art of a sport I've admired for a long time. I'm working on my technique in the gym, but the conditioning I can work on in and out of the gym. I don't put conditioning in front of technique, it's just that when I have access to trainers and equipment I want to spend that time on technique.