[Daddy]

Quote:

A Pinecrest Police officer is accused of failing to render aid at the scene of a deadly accident. She’s now taking criticism for not helping the man and woman who died.

On October 16th a driver struck two University of Miami graduate students, Ying Chen and Hao Liu.

Off-duty Miami Police Sergeant Javier Ortiz happened to be in the area and came upon the scene immediately.

“I jumped out of my car, I have a defibrillator, and checked the vitals on both victims,” Ortiz told CBS4 News reporter Gary Nelson Thursday.

“I immediately started CPR on the female. It was just me. I had no one to work on the male and I was waiting for help to arrive,” said Ortiz.

A dash camera from a Pinecrest police car shows the first possible help arriving, Pinecrest Officer Ana Carrasco.

The video shows a blood covered Ortiz administering CPR to the female victim.

Officer Carrasco gets out of her car and approaches.

“I told her that the male was not breathing and had no pulse and she needed to turn him over and start CPR,” said Sergeant Ortiz.

“I got no response. She just stood there,” added Ortiz.
The dash camera video showed the officer standing with her hands in her pockets watching Ortiz try to help the stricken female student.

Ortiz said he begged her to help.

“I said it again and again and again,” Ortiz said. “There were people, civilians, yelling at her to please do something and she did absolutely nothing.”

In recorded statements, witnesses said Officer Carrasco did not help the victims.

An audio recording with Calvert Evers said: “She got within, I don’t know five feet and just kind of stood there and looked at him and he, the officer, yelled at her ‘Get over here and start doing CPR on this guy.’ He distinctly said it. He was pissed he said ‘Get over here and start doing CPR’ and she just stood there.”

A statement from Samantha Evers said: “She walked slowly and he started yelling at her. She didn’t kneel, she didn’t do anything. She just looked and walked away.”

When questioned as part of an internal affairs investigation, Carrasco said she gave Ortiz a pair of gloves when he asked for them, told bystanders to back away from the scene and tried to locate the vehicle that hit the victims which was stopped a short distance away.

A recording of Carrasco’s statement says, “I actually made a visual assesment on the male facing down. I didn’t see him breathing I didn’t see his lungs or chest expanding or any signs of life.”
Later she said, “Based on my training, education, experience I was concerned flipping the male victim over. I was concerned it could cause cervical or spinal injury and maybe kill him. I don’t know if he’s dead or not. I run back to my car to see if I have more gloves to see if I can search for any vital signs at that time rescue arrived.”

She said she never checked vital signs because she didn’t have another pair of gloves.

In the end, neither Chen nor Liu survived.
Chen’s boyfriend Pengfei Sun is devastated by the loss of his girlfriend. “I just want the truth,” he said. “I miss her.”
Ortiz, too, says he still grieves their deaths and is livid at the Pinecrest officer who did nothing.

“She has no business wearing a badge and a gun,” Ortiz said. “Somebody that wears a badge and gun takes an oath, and part of that oath on or off duty is to save lives and she didn’t do it.”

A thirty-two page investigative report by Pinecrest Police, obtained by CBS4 News, found Officer Carrasco failed to render aid at an accident involving serious injury.

Her proposed punishment was a one-week suspension without pay.
Miami’s Ortiz was incredulous.

“I think that’s pretty unheard of,” Ortiz said. “I’m actually surprised that Pinecrest would be so lenient. In our department, you would be terminated for that.”


Pinecrest Police Chief Samuel Ceballos in a written statement late Thursday said he is not bound by the recommendation of the one-week suspension, which was made by a division lieutenant.
Ceballos said he will determine the officer’s punishment after meeting with her and her union attorney.

A final decision must be approved by the Village of Pinecrest manager.

Efforts to reach Officer Carrasco through her Police Benevolent Association attorney were unsuccessful.

Take from : http://miami.cbslocal.com/2014/02/06/vid...h-victims/

[Vacancier Permanent]

Is this for real? This is sickening!!! I am speechless!
I sincerely hope this cunty bitch gets what she truly deserves...

[kbell]

aliblablah is posting on that article as chris. and daddy as well. Why did she freeze. Its really bad they didn't fire her. But perhaps this how police are now responding to injuries due to fear of law suits.

[Hades]

I don't necessarily think that women make bad first responders or medical caretakers.

If you're anxiety-prone and get overcome in a stressful situation that you did not train enough to prepare for, you would not be able to respond effectively either.

While it is a tragedy that this woman froze at the scene of the accident the problem is that she was too stupid to realize her limitations and plan accordingly. That trait alone makes her unqualified for the job and a hazard to herself and everyone else on the force.

[dog24]

(02-09-2014 06:23 PM)Hades Wrote:  

I don't necessarily think that women make bad first responders or medical caretakers.

Not sure if serious, there have been studies that show that women pretty much have no empathy for other men unless its her own.

Not to make fun of such a tragedy but i wouldnt be surprised it that girl was thinking why should i help him whats in it for me? Or hes just a guy its not like he suffers just like i do...Or where is a guy i can yell to to do something.

A male`s first response is to act whenever something happens, thats why firefighters and paramedics teach not to touch the body cause otherwise everyone tries to carry around the guy who had the accident. Women`s first response is to look around for a guy who can solve the problem.

[tarquin]

I read too fast initially and thought the first line said "A Pinterest Police Officer..."

[Vicious]

I dunno, due to their natural empathy women actually make good care-givers and first-responders (where there's not a physical challenge). These are roles we should encourage them to fill. Rather than being University professors in gender studies.

This particular event was just tragic and it sounds like nothing could have been some no matter what. Still some disciplinary action is definitely in order but it would be a bad precedence to take a cops badge for this. That's a double edged sword and might make them ultimately them shy away from this kind of response in the first place. Like how some ambulances won't go into troubled areas unless they have a police escort.

[devilution]

Could be a classic Freeze survival response, female officer shocked at scene and just froze.
Her excuse said otherwise though.

[dog24]

(02-09-2014 06:47 PM)Vicious Wrote:  

I dunno, due to their natural empathy women actually make good care-givers and first-responders (where there's not a physical challenge).

http://therationalmale.com/2013/11/13/empathy/ props to the guy who wrote this

I started crying when i went to the OR when i shattered my leg, i was very into muay thai and olympic lifting at the time, the thought that i wasnt gonna be able to throw a leg kick or squat ever again was too much for me. One of the nurses started making fun of me and said oh hes such a momma`s boy.

I have broken up fights that didnt involve me or one of my friends, i dont know why i do it i just do, usually once its over i think hmm maybe that could have been dangerous. One time i stopped a fight in a nightclub where two guys we already on the ground and random guys were stomping their heads. Afterwards a girl crossed paths with me and laughed in my face kinda like saying why did you bother?

I have many stories like that, i cant help but laugh when i hear about women`s empathy these days.

[Suits]

*Woo! WooOOooooOOOOoooooo! WooooOOOOOooooo! Honk! Honk!*

Clear the traffic lane! Here comes the pussy pass!

(02-09-2014 06:47 PM)Vicious Wrote:  

I dunno, due to their natural empathy women actually make good care-givers and first-responders (where there's not a physical challenge).

No, women make good care-givers....to children.

Women are naturally empathetic to children, but could care less about men.

I've worked with or observed many women who did an excellent job as first responders. However, most women aren't suited to this, just as hipster men aren't.

This women clearly is useless at her job, but let's be fair. Male police officers get off easy on a regular basis in matters that the regular unwashed masses would quickly be criminally charged for.

[Parlay44]

It's just a little girl playing dress up in her daddy's clothes. I'll bet her father was a cop.

Women don't belong in positions that require them to be serious for long periods of time.

[Frontenac]

The worst part is she makes up some excuse (lies) about what happened, and doesn't take responsibility for her actions.

What she should have said was:
"I froze, I cracked, and I didn't do my job. People died because of my inaction, and I will accept whatever punishment is handed my way. I'm sorry."

Hell, if that happened to me, I'd have to hand in my gun and badge. Not all jobs are for everyone.

[BadWolf]

They passed me up to put tons of these on the force.

smh.

Just a personal ancedote. During college, the woman who was picked to be the 'best student in class' and given a pat on the back from all the male cops on the local force called in THAT year with a false rape accusation against her boyfriend. Later on she was still admitted to the force despite all the hubbub. The best students that should have become police in that graduating class were all passed up for politically correct women officers. Annoyed and disgusted.

Despite my best efforts I was told not to even bother applying as they were only taking: Minorities, disabled and LGBT officers. I was told this by a high ranking officer. Later on when I went to apply for military police, I was told I probably wouldn't make the cut by a female air force officer at the recruiting station.. Finally I went to an RCMP meeting and was poo poo'd by the local recruiting officer, a woman, who was very quick to answer all the female's questions. Guess what b1tch, I passed all the entry exams. When I get home, I'm gonna see if I can get in again... I've heard too many horror stories just like this one.

[BadWolf]

They passed me up to put tons of these on the force.

smh.

Just a personal ancedote. During college, the woman who was picked to be the 'best student in class' and given a pat on the back from all the male cops on the local force called in THAT year with a false rape accusation against her boyfriend. Later on she was still admitted to the force despite all the hubbub. The best students that should have become police in that graduating class were all passed up for politically correct women officers. Annoyed and disgusted.

Despite my best efforts I was told not to even bother applying as they were only taking: Women, Minorities, disabled and LGBT officers. They said there wasn't much room anymore for white male officers. I was told this by a high ranking officer. Later on when I went to apply for military police, I was told I probably wouldn't make the cut by a female air force officer at the recruiting station.. Finally I went to an RCMP meeting and was poo poo'd by the local recruiting officer, a woman, who was very quick to answer all the female's questions. Guess what b1tch, I passed all the entry exams. When I get home, I'm gonna see if I can get in again... I've heard too many horror stories just like this one.

[soup]

What are the stats for this kind of thing happening for males and females?

[Glock]

(02-09-2014 06:38 PM)dog24 Wrote:  

(02-09-2014 06:23 PM)Hades Wrote:  

I don't necessarily think that women make bad first responders or medical caretakers.

Not sure if serious, there have been studies that show that women pretty much have no empathy for other men unless its her own.

Not to make fun of such a tragedy but i wouldnt be surprised it that girl was thinking why should i help him whats in it for me? Or hes just a guy its not like he suffers just like i do...Or where is a guy i can yell to to do something.

A male`s first response is to act whenever something happens, thats why firefighters and paramedics teach not to touch the body cause otherwise everyone tries to carry around the guy who had the accident. Women`s first response is to look around for a guy who can solve the problem.

Dog24 is right on this one.

The truth is that women have far less empathy for strangers and are vastly less likely to take any risks to help someone. Take a look at this video of amazing rescues.

In many of them, women stand by while men take risks to save people in danger. I started a thread about this video a while back and even noted that all the rescuers were men. (The opening post reads: "Notice that every single rescuer is a man. The women just sit around and watch while people are about to be killed.")

Women's lack of empathy for strangers has been well known for a very long time. This is what Florence Nightingale had to say about women's lack of "sympathy" for others:

Quote:

I have read half your book thro', and am immensely charmed by it. But some things I disagree with and more I do not understand. This does not apply to the characters, but your conclusions, e.g. you say "women are more sympathetic than men".

Now if I were to write a book out of my experience, I should begin Women have no sympathy. Yours is the tradition. Mine is the conviction of experience.

Now look at my experience of men. A statesman, past middle age, absorbed in politics for a quarter of a century, out of sympathy with me, remodels his whole life and policy - learns a science the driest, the most technical, the most difficult, that of administration, as far as it concerns the lives of men - not, as I learnt it, in the field from stirring experience, but by writing dry regulations in a London room by my sofa with me. This is what I call real sympathy.

Another (Alexander, whom I made Director-General) does very nearly the same thing. He is dead too. Clough, a poet born if ever there was one, takes to nursing administration in the same way, for me.

I only mention three whose whole lives were remodeled by sympathy for me. But I could mention very many others...

I have never found one woman who altered her life by one iota for me or my opinions.

Now just look at the degree in which women have sympathy - as far as my experience is concerned. And my experience of women is almost as large as Europe. And it is so intimate too. I have lived and slept in the same bed with English Countesses and Prussian Bauerinnen. No [other woman] has ever had charge of women of the different creeds that I have had. No woman has excited "passions" among women more than I have. Yet I leave no school behind me. My doctrines have taken no hold among women...and I attribute this to a want of sympathy.

It makes me mad, the Women's Rights talk about "the want of a field" for them - when I know that I would gladly give £500 a year for a Woman Secretary. And two English Lady Superintendents have told me the same. And we can't get one ... they don't know the names of the Cabinet Ministers. They don't know the offices at the Horse Guards...Now I'm sure I did not know these things. When I went to the Crimea I did not know a Colonel from a Corporal. But there are such things as Army Lists and Almanacs. Yet I never could find a woman who, out of sympathy, would consult one for my work.

I do believe I am "like a man," as Parthe says. But how? In having sympathy.

Women crave for being loved, not for loving. They scream out at you for sympathy all day long, they are incapable of giving any in return, for they cannot remember your affairs long enough to do so...They cannot state a fact accurately to another, nor can that other attend to it accurately enough for it to become information. Now is not all this the result of want of sympathy?

You can see a book that contains Nightingale's words here.

[kosko]

The standards for female cops are bare bottom. There are some hard-core chics that manage well don't get me wrong, but for most they get in simply because they got a pussy. Also there is a ton of material on how women have less empathy and are way worse at gauging risk.

She was probably having brain farts about if she would make the situation worse... Most likely was trying to remember all the steps and protocols and second guessing herself instead of acting on gut instinct like men do. From my time working the Psych Ward routinely broads would "start fires they couldn't put out", meaning they would get ultra aggressive /or/ way too passive and a patient would flip their lid. When SHTF more times then not I would be the only dude around and would have to bail these broads out before they got round-housed by the patient.

I remember this one broad telling me "I saved her life" because she pissed off homeboy in the ward over something stupid like a Apple. Dude was running at her like a bull in Spain and she froze screaming with nothing but a wall behind her instead of running. I had to run in and restrain and toss the dude but he would of basically done this to her if I was a second to late:



If your not able to restrain somebody your supposed to leave their room and lock the door. She was so shook (that she fuked up and made him made in the first place) that she literally just froze like dear and dude was running full speed to try and take her head off.

I've seen to many sleazy female cops. One chic pretended that a dude touched her because she was sick of his moaning when he was getting arrested. The wagon was full of drank fools from a party (I was one of them haha) and through the window I could hear her scream and yell that he shoved her. Dude was standing handcuffed and never moved once during the time she was watching him, but next minute you know both male cops rolled through and beat the shit out of him with the night sticks and tazed him. Ridiculous shit.

Behind every female first-responder is two dudes whom always back her up and bail her out.

[Vroom]

Without going into too much detail, I was in a situation where I had to perform CPR on a guy who had had a heart attack while behind the wheel of a car. I pulled him from the vehicle, and must admit, I was pretty sure he was already dead.

Sometime while I was doing CPR, I noticed that there was a female cop looking on. I didn't really think about it until later, but then it seemed odd that she didn't make any effort to take over, or even assist with resuscitation. After the paramedics had arrived and taken over, I wondered where she had gotten to - I learned that she was inside the house, bawling her eyes out. Think about that for a second - a trained emergency services worker, offered no help and went to pieces herself, becasue she couldn't handle the sight of a perfect stranger near death.

Worse than being no help at all, she actually required resources to be diverted to her, because she couldn't handle her emotions. Meanwhile, I was just doing what needed to be done - and to my surprise, the guy survived.

[Hades]

(02-09-2014 06:38 PM)dog24 Wrote:  

(02-09-2014 06:23 PM)Hades Wrote:  

I don't necessarily think that women make bad first responders or medical caretakers.

Not sure if serious, there have been studies that show that women pretty much have no empathy for other men unless its her own.

Not to make fun of such a tragedy but i wouldnt be surprised it that girl was thinking why should i help him whats in it for me? Or hes just a guy its not like he suffers just like i do...Or where is a guy i can yell to to do something.

A male`s first response is to act whenever something happens, thats why firefighters and paramedics teach not to touch the body cause otherwise everyone tries to carry around the guy who had the accident. Women`s first response is to look around for a guy who can solve the problem.

Lots of surgeons score really high on the Hare Psychopathy Checklist - not only do they lack empathy but they also make better (and more rational) decisions under pressure that would paralyze the average dude. If you handed a regular guy a scalpel and told him to cut somebody open, they'd panic about cutting the wrong thing and killing the guy on the table - to a surgeon with a high degree of psychopathy a different patient is just another piece of meat.

That being said, I don't know if the character trait that would separate men from women in responding to "disaster situations" is actually empathy. It's probably just a complete lack of initiative on the behalf of women. Women know that they're not really held accountable for anything. There is rarely a consequence for not taking a risk.

Not saying that women don't lack empathy for strangers (they probably do) but my guess is that training them to overcome the "freeze" response would make them into decent first responders.

I have more faith in positive effects of training than in the virtues of women, mind you.

[Suits]

I thought this thread was going to be about a female cop that decided that weather was too cold and warmed up in her cruiser while someone was dying on the pavement.

[T and A Man]

Sounds like chick here are after a uniform that gives them leverage to boss people around, but don't like the "acting in an emergency" bit.

All rights, no responsibilities? Sounds familiar.

[WanderingSoul]

Shouldn't criminal charges have been brought against her? Aren't cops bound by law to intervene in these situations. I know my firefighter friends who are CPR/first responder/whatever certified are, and said they can face legal action if they don't help st the scene of an accident. Aren't cops in the same situation?

[T and A Man]

Guess who can play the "I'm only a woman" get out of jail card?

No woman is ever going to be held into account for inaction.... ever.

[Handsome Creepy Eel]

I think it's sad shit, but a shit that happens. Still, if officer Ortiz had tried to help the male victim first, I'm pretty sure there would be outrage at "valuing the male life more than female".

[Beyond Borders]

(02-10-2014 03:40 AM)Handsome Creepy Eel Wrote:  

I think it's sad shit, but a shit that happens. Still, if officer Ortiz had tried to help the male victim first, I'm pretty sure there would be outrage at "valuing the male life more than female".

I noticed that too, but I think there's a protocol to follow that doesn't depend on gender. Is it to help the person most badly injured, or to help the person most likely to survive?

Can anyone offer insight?