[Hencredible Casanova]

(02-07-2014 02:45 PM)Hotwheels Wrote:  

I'm not a senior citizen and I hate living in the big city.

Always have.

Right. But there's congruence between that and your posts. And I rarely agree with you on most cultural issues from what I gather but I think you're a legit poster.

But to find out we have a guy arguing incessantly about grand topics with members more versed in them, when he has no steady income (no benefits), lives in a relatively insignificant part of the country, has a dearth of compelling posts rooted in experience, I think calling into question his identity is fair game. What's actually informing his views? Apparently, lack of real world success. Typical.

He claims to not care about what I say but unfailingly responds to my posts.

I must have struck a nerve because he revealed a lot of info about himself that he had been withholding previously.

Also, I don't see this as a forum-wide battle. Many of the people who endorse his posts only appear on political threads for the most part. Haven't seen them drop game, money, or lifestyle info. I actually think most of those dudes know their boundaries though. They keep it to a certain minimum so you can just ignore them.

I'm just saying, I think in life it's only right to call out bullshitters. We do it all the time on the forum (feminists, economists, etc). Anyone can voice an opinion, but authenticity is key. It's the cornerstone of every guy's niche.

Any dude on this forum with some type of angle put in work to get there.

Anyway, it's whatever at this point. The facts have come out. We know the difference between who's done it and who's said it.

Kill it.

[The Lizard of Oz]

WestCoast, my point is not that you should try to figure out the other guy as a courtesy or because you owe him anything. Forget about that.

It's a purely selfish/self-improvement suggestion for you -- you should try to figure him out because it's an opportunity to learn something and to take something away from what would otherwise be a complete waste of time.

Forget about what someone said about you, etc. Just look at it as a puzzle. Here's an intelligent guy. Why does he feel so passionately about these things. What is driving him?

And to say that these are your views from 5 years ago is missing the point. I feel that your personalities and psychology are sufficiently different that even if you held the "same" views 5 years ago, it would have been for totally different reasons. It's not really an answer that allows you to learn anything.

It's not just about something as specific as immigration, either. The guy has a whole worldview, and there are clearly plenty of others who are sympathetic to it. Why? What animates it?

I'm not known as someone who is a big fan of feminism. But I read two books by Andrea Dworkin cover to cover and thought about every word. And I read other radical feminist texts at every opportunity. There is no danger of me agreeing with them. But I always want to understand more and more. Not just the thinking but the emotion. What's really going on?

You'll never convince someone else or make them change their mind unless you understand why they think the way they do. This is the way to gain real intellectual power.

[WestCoast]

^ Yes I already do that.

I have gotten quite good in that I can tell what race/age range and income range a person is with deadly accuracy before I meet them.

I know why he has the views he has (believe I do) and understand that many agree with this. I already know what the response is to the full in the blank request so just looking for confirmation. Note again I don't care where he lives or whatever not important to me once I understand he bought process I can add or subtract the person from someone of interest to me. It is clear I have chosen the latter and again I use these threads to further drive the stake between people I would want to meet and those that I wouldn't bother with.

That is also why i stated I have no interest in meeting people that think like this. It's okay the world moves on. It's not really a big deal we have very opposing personalities and ideologies. I would rather find people who share the same mindset as I do because all the guys who do quickly change their lives, improve and grow. If the view scorpion shares is popular and many agree and on top of that they are happy with their lives then great.

I don't have time to learn about everyone I only learn about people I believe I can help.

---

You're basically giving me Dale Carnegie 101 for everyone. Unfortunately this is a place where I voice my real opinion (real life experience only and real reading only). I work with enough nut jobs who I trick into liking me in real life as it is, here that is not my concern. I would rather have people polar against my type of views or with them. Easier to sort, I don't have time to convince someone that I may consider as an acquaintance in the future better for like minds to meet than not

I also realize my view is not in the majority based on the responses here and that doesn't bother me one bit. I look at who agrees with me, what type of person they are.

I would rather have 1 legit guy in agreement with me that I want to meet than 75 random people who I don't want to meet in agreement with me. The majority is practically always wrong. So on that basis I was able to pick up another guy I would like to meet so it was a net win.

Simply put I only want the cream of the crop on my side. If my voice goes against the cream I will be worried.

[The Lizard of Oz]

Fair enough. I'm really making a more subtle point, but I understand it's not for everyone. But you're a smart and ambitious dude and you're always looking for ways to get better, so why not try.

I have no doubt you have a good rough and ready understanding of different types and where they're coming from. That much is obvious from your posts.

But that understanding doesn't go as far you might think. It's probably a little bit thin, a little bit mechanical. It doesn't go to a depth where you really feel what animates the other person.

You're trying to be efficient and sort things and people out quickly so you can get on with your life and make your money. I get it.

But there is a lot of value in being a little less efficient, in allowing yourself to really linger on things, in coming back to them again and again. It's the only way to gain depth of understanding.

I've been in your shoes. When I was much younger I was just a smart guy who picked everything up very quickly. I had a lot of rough and ready recognition -- and very little real understanding. It's easy to mistake one for the other.

Your feeling is, life is short, there is no time. But the truth is that life is long and there is time for all sorts of things.

Anyway, I hope you can make something from what I've said here. If not, that's fine -- you'll probably figure it out sooner or later.

[Veloce]

You talk about the bigger picture, but I don't see it in your post. I see lots of "smaller picture" scenarios. Let's go through them:

(02-07-2014 09:12 AM)Blaster Wrote:  

To see most of the side-effects, you have to look at a bigger picture and include social consequences. I have seen your story myself and is partly why I made the point that a rigid, inflexible policy is a bad idea. But it's not the whole story.

Doing the same job for less pay isn't a "bad thing" in and of itself. That's how a free labor market works. But when the US moved away from 80-hour work weeks in the 20th century it was considered progress and greatly improved the quality of life for Americans, especially middle-class Americans.

I'd like to see some stats here. Both my parents owned their own business in the 20th century and I don't recall them ever cutting their hours. It was always 60-80.

Quote:

To see how immigration can harm or at least change a community you have to look at the whole community. You have to look at the burden on public services (schools, police, transportation, use of public parks and recreation, etc.). You have to look at the effects on housing and rental markets. You have to look at the changing demand for local businesses, for example a french bistro failing and a cheap-eats taqueria opening in its place. You have to look at secondary effects. The immigrant workers might not collect welfare but the displaced Americans will. Or, more likely, the baby momma's of the displaced American workers will collect the welfare.

I don't think any French bistro ever closed because too many ethnic minorities moved in. Every French bistro I know of are in neighborhoods that ethnic minorities are too broke to afford.

I do agree that it's largely ethnic groups that utilize public service like free parks and transportation, but you can't fault them for that. Most white people don't ride the bus in L.A. because it's such a shitty system, and they don't go to parks because they're too insular and would rather be hanging out at the Standard rooftop pool.

Quote:

You also have to look at the day to day interactions of the people when they interact with store clerks, food service workers and such. It's hard to describe how much nicer it is to interact with a cheerful teenage girl who speaks fluent English than a sullen adult who mumbles and barely makes eye contact. If you go to a grocery store in a small community in white middle America, you're more likely to get the teenage girl (though increasingly she will be overweight). If you go to a grocery store in big city immigrant neighborhoods, you're more likely to get the sullen adult.

I wrote a post about this a month or two ago. The most miserable people I see are white people in Whole Foods, so I stopped going. The most polite people I've seen at a grocery store are at my local Ralph's, in mid city, who are mostly black and hispanic (or mestizo or whatever the hell you want to call them. Brown)

Quote:

You also have to look at the scale of the demographic change and the capacity for the immigrants to improve their economic standing over time. Young males working hard 80 hour work weeks to "pay their dues" is OK so long as the system will reward them for sacrificing their youth in such a way. If 80 hard work weeks become the norm, that means quality of life is going down not up. It will mean an increasing gap between wealthy and poor and decreasing ability of the poor people do anything but work eat and live in soul-crushing tenement housing.

That's an exaggeration. Nobody HAS to work 80 hours, it's called jumping at opportunity and a strong work ethic. My guys working 80 hours a week make about 50k per year. Not bad for someone without a college degree and wasn't born here. That's about 5 times more than they'd make back home, depending if they're Mexican or Central American. That's also how much I've had to work at various points in my career to get where I am today, and now work 50 hours a week.

Quote:

That's why there has to be a sane, sensible immigration policy that doesn't simply take one look at a cheerful, hard-working Mexican and say open borders forever it's every man for himself.

Whoever espoused that idea?

Your post largely consists of rhetoric based on your own personal experiences, or I don't know what. I'm not sure. Just like my posts are based on my experience, which happen to come from Los Angeles, the third largest economic center in the entire world. [/quote]

[Agent 47]

http://gma.yahoo.com/blogs/abc-blogs/cok....html?vp=1


BAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!











ROUND 2 MOTHERFUCKERS!!!

[scorpion]

Just got back from the gym, did a hard leg workout and now I'm wiped out and have that full-body high going on. Feeling the love for everybody including HC and WestCoast. We may have our differences and not get along, but at least on my end I can say I'm not taking it personally. Enjoy the weekend, gentlemen. Life is too short to spend angry and arguing on the internet.

[Alpharius]

Holy shit! We were talking about Coca Cola in this thread?!

But really, a quick look on
youtube
shows
videos
interviewing
each
of
the
girls
singing.
Coke has been planning this as a large advertising campaign, and it's only just getting started.

In the battle between its haters and its advertising, Coca Cola always wins. Even after Coke had officially been banned as an American product when the communists took over South Vietnam, Coke still dominated the market quick becoming a hot commodity for smugglers from across SE Asia. Hell, after the ban was dropped, Coke capitalized on the its image as as an icon of times in South Vietnam, making its Vietnamese slogan "Good to see you again!" Coke will always win.

Coca Cola 1, Haters 0

[Veloce]

(02-07-2014 04:31 PM)scorpion Wrote:  

Just got back from the gym, did a hard leg workout and now I'm wiped out and have that full-body high going on. Feeling the love for everybody including HC and WestCoast. We may have our differences and not get along, but at least on my end I can say I'm not taking it personally. Enjoy the weekend, gentlemen. Life is too short to spend angry and arguing on the internet.

Right there with ya bro. Chest day today and my torso feels like overcooked spaghetti. Nothing better in life.

[All or Nothing]

delete

[svenski7]

I've decided from here on out all my posts in this thread will be memes.

[NY Digital]

I wonder how many more pages till the mustache guy would be mentioned.

[Blaster]

(02-07-2014 03:55 PM)thedude3737 Wrote:  

I don't think any French bistro ever closed because too many ethnic minorities moved in. Every French bistro I know of are in neighborhoods that ethnic minorities are too broke to afford.

The example I pulled out of my ass, but the basic prediction is that when you import a lot of cheap labor that primarily benefits the upper classes, the result is an increased demand at the high and low end of the scale. You'll have an expensive 5-star restaurant and you'll have McDonalds, but you won't have a classy-but-affordable neighborhood cafe.

This article discusses the topic in terms of department stores:

Death of the US Middle Class

Talks about thriving bargain-bin stores and luxury department stores, but that old middle class standards like JC Penny are struggling. I'm certainly not ready to "blame immigrants" for this, not by any stretch, the reasons are almost certainly more complex.

Quote:

I do agree that it's largely ethnic groups that utilize public service like free parks and transportation, but you can't fault them for that. Most white people don't ride the bus in L.A. because it's such a shitty system, and they don't go to parks because they're too insular and would rather be hanging out at the Standard rooftop pool.

I'm not faulting THEM for anything, just making observations about consequences about the way the system works. If you're a longtime resident of a community and can no longer enjoy a public park because it's crowded with people who don't even speak your language, it's not racist to to be upset about that.

Quote:

You also have to look at the day to day interactions of the people when they interact with store clerks, food service workers and such. It's hard to describe how much nicer it is to interact with a cheerful teenage girl who speaks fluent English than a sullen adult who mumbles and barely makes eye contact. If you go to a grocery store in a small community in white middle America, you're more likely to get the teenage girl (though increasingly she will be overweight). If you go to a grocery store in big city immigrant neighborhoods, you're more likely to get the sullen adult.

I wrote a post about this a month or two ago. The most miserable people I see are white people in Whole Foods, so I stopped going. The most polite people I've seen at a grocery store are at my local Ralph's, in mid city, who are mostly black and hispanic (or mestizo or whatever the hell you want to call them. Brown)

Quote:

That's an exaggeration. Nobody HAS to work 80 hours, it's called jumping at opportunity and a strong work ethic. My guys working 80 hours a week make about 50k per year. Not bad for someone without a college degree and wasn't born here. That's about 5 times more than they'd make back home, depending if they're Mexican or Central American. That's also how much I've had to work at various points in my career to get where I am today, and now work 50 hours a week.

Again, I'm taking pains not to blame the immigrants themselves for anything. However, the politics concerns how to restrict, encourage, or otherwise cope with immigrants and potential immigrants. There are lots of friendly, hardworking people in the world, we can't import all of them to the US without suffering substantial social consequences. The simple fact of being an honest, hardworking man is not sufficient justification to allow immigration.

Anyway sorry to bump this thread, I wanted to respond to thedude3737's post since it was thoughtful and intelligent, just did not have the chance until now.

[Avon Barksdale]

(02-07-2014 04:31 PM)scorpion Wrote:  

Just got back from the gym, did a hard leg workout and now I'm wiped out and have that full-body high going on. Feeling the love for everybody including HC and WestCoast. We may have our differences and not get along, but at least on my end I can say I'm not taking it personally. Enjoy the weekend, gentlemen. Life is too short to spend angry and arguing on the internet.

[Moma]

(02-10-2014 04:39 PM)Avon Barksdale Wrote:  

(02-07-2014 04:31 PM)scorpion Wrote:  

Just got back from the gym, did a hard leg workout and now I'm wiped out and have that full-body high going on. Feeling the love for everybody including HC and WestCoast. We may have our differences and not get along, but at least on my end I can say I'm not taking it personally. Enjoy the weekend, gentlemen. Life is too short to spend angry and arguing on the internet.

Luv that film