[SeanBateman]

What can happen if an American guy gets a European girl pregnant? Can she come after his US assets and/or income for child support? What about Ukrainian and Russian girls? I haven't had this issue but it is not outside of the realm of possibility in the future.

Maybe slubu has an official legal answer?

[commiejoe]

yeah good question, thought of it before, but never enough to ask, or even google.

[iknowexactly]

I don't like judges telling me how many hours a week I have to work, but leaving my kid hungry is even lower than I would go. Not the same as paying some bitch to do nothing on my dime though.

there was a thread on the international chip support compact list:

https://www.google.com/url?q=http://www....prJzMI7GJg

[CEOArob]

Hehe, this was something I was actually looking up last night. I think that it has already been addressed in other threads, but in case not, I will post my findings here:

(European Countries in Bold)

Quote:

The following countries were declared by the U.S. government as foreign reciprocating countries for child support purposes.

Australia
Canada
Czech Republic
El Salvador
Finland
Hungary
Ireland
Israel
Netherlands
Norway
Poland
Portugal
Slovak Republic
Switzerland
The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland

http://www.acf.hhs.gov/programs/css/reso...-countries

http://socialservices.westchestergov.com...-countries

[rhino]

deleted.

[Parlay44]

She'd have to establish paternity first before she could enforce any kind of child support. Fortunately courts only have jurisdiction in their own countries. So she'd be shit out of luck if you leave. I asked my lawyer all these questions. We might be screwed one day with globalization. The borders will become more transparent and the reach of the law will become worldwide.

International child abduction is a whole other matter.

[Duke Castile]

(01-31-2014 04:21 AM)iknowexactly Wrote:  

I don't like judges telling me how many hours a week I have to work, but leaving my kid hungry is even lower than I would go. Not the same as paying some bitch to do nothing on my dime though.

there was a thread on the international chip support compact list:

https://www.google.com/url?q=http://www....prJzMI7GJg

He never said he would leave his child hungry. He said he didn't want his assets seized by child support laws. It's been well established here that child support laws equate to paying for a woman's lifestyle.

[jimukr104]

Always use fake NAMES!

[Brosemite]

Well...better knock up a Spanish or Ukrainian chick then....

[SeanBateman]

(01-31-2014 12:27 PM)Fisto Wrote:  

(01-31-2014 04:21 AM)iknowexactly Wrote:  

I don't like judges telling me how many hours a week I have to work, but leaving my kid hungry is even lower than I would go. Not the same as paying some bitch to do nothing on my dime though.

there was a thread on the international chip support compact list:

https://www.google.com/url?q=http://www....prJzMI7GJg

He never said he would leave his child hungry. He said he didn't want his assets seized by child support laws. It's been well established here that child support laws equate to paying for a woman's lifestyle.

Thank you for clearing that up. I wouldn't intentionally put myself in this situation, but it's a real possibility. I just want to know what the worst case scenario is.

[iknowexactly]

(02-02-2014 03:22 PM)SeanBateman Wrote:  

He never said he would leave his child hungry.

Didn't mean to make any accusations there.

In the US child support laws and the arbitrary way they are enforced are clearly unreasonable. I don't know if it's like that in the whole world.

The idea of child support is general seems reasonable.

if you knock a chick up, it seems decent to do your best to contribute at least to the basic living expenses for feeding clothing etc the kid.

Also while the the kid is quite young, the mothers ability to work is clearly compromised, so I can see it being quite a shitty predicament to be in.

[Celtic]

I mentioned this in the thread that was linked to, but the US courts are so pro-woman they will cooperate with foreign courts seeking child support even if there is not a treaty for child support enforcement.

So if a Brazilian man knocks up an American woman, he is safe in Brazil. But the US court(or, at least the state courts I checked with when I had my scare-fortunately not mine) will still help the Brazilian court with the collection of child support.

iknowexactly- it's not a matter of letting a kid go hungry, child support payments are punitively large.

I believe this is due to state getting matching funds from the Feds for child support enforcement, along with the anti-male bias that exists throughout that system.

Now as a practical matter it's going to be harder for the foreign court to find you and there will be more logistical hurdles, but it is still very possible they could come after you. Child support is so expensive, it's worth it to take all of the same precautions you would with an American girl to avoid knocking her up.

[rishboy77]

(02-03-2014 08:28 AM)Celtic Wrote:  

I mentioned this in the thread that was linked to, but the US courts are so pro-woman they will cooperate with foreign courts seeking child support even if there is not a treaty for child support enforcement.

So if a Brazilian man knocks up an American woman, he is safe in Brazil. But the US court(or, at least the state courts I checked with when I had my scare-fortunately not mine) will still help the Brazilian court with the collection of child support.

iknowexactly- it's not a matter of letting a kid go hungry, child support payments are punitively large.

I believe this is due to state getting matching funds from the Feds for child support enforcement, along with the anti-male bias that exists throughout that system.

Now as a practical matter it's going to be harder for the foreign court to find you and there will be more logistical hurdles, but it is still very possible they could come after you. Child support is so expensive, it's worth it to take all of the same precautions you would with an American girl to avoid knocking her up.

I living proof that if your crazy enough to get married or have children get a pre-nup, think things through and know the laws about your situation as much as possible. I'm going through a nasty divorce now and the whole system in the West is biased towards men. I'm been forced to sell my house which I paid for while she never worked a day and greed lawyers are burning through cash like no tomorrow while I'm going broke.

[DaveR]

Anyone know of any estate planning tricks to protect yourself from excessive child support rulings? Asset protection trusts, etc.

In Russia it's based on a percentage of taxable income, so very easy to avoid by using trusts and companies.

I would be interested to know what the situation is in the UK and other European countries.

I plan on having kids in the future, but I want to avoid the possibility of a court deciding how much child support is due and giving the mother control of how it's spent. I agree with the earlier comments that we have a moral obligation to support kids that we create, but in my book whoever pays should get to choose the music. I.e. I would rather it be at my discretion and that I pay for expenses like school fees, college, travel, etc. directly.

[DaveR]

(02-03-2014 08:45 AM)rishboy77 Wrote:  

I living proof that if your crazy enough to get married or have children get a pre-nup, think things through and know the laws about your situation as much as possible. I'm going through a nasty divorce now and the whole system in the West is biased towards men. I'm been forced to sell my house which I paid for while she never worked a day and greed lawyers are burning through cash like no tomorrow while I'm going broke.

The problem I see with prenups is that they are private agreements and the State keeps changing the rules. Also, as you have pointed out, bitches will happily challenge them in Court and burn through your estate with legal fees.

Even if you're not married but living together, the courts in the Anglo-sphere can assign some of your capital gains to her.

So for the guys here who run location-independent businesses, what have you done to protect yourself from child support and divorce/separation cases?

[UrbanNerd]

Disclaimer: I am not promoting being a deadbeat but....

If you guys are going to run up in the chicks RAW, then you need to stop giving these chicks your real name and access to information that can track you down.

[DaveR]

(02-03-2014 08:59 AM)UrbanNerd Wrote:  

Disclaimer: I am not promoting being a deadbeat but....

If you guys are going to run up in the chicks RAW, then you need to stop giving these chicks your real name and access to information that can track you down.

Some of us have a main girl and side dishes... it's difficult to keep that much information secret from a main girl. Eg. how would you keep her from seeing your license plate?

[rishboy77]

[/quote]
So for the guys here who run location-independent businesses, what have you done to protect yourself from child support and divorce/separation cases?
[/quote]

That's exactly the problem I face. If your self employed no one really knows what your true income is and she can and will contest it.

In my case I needed to spend tens of thousands on a independent business valuation and she got her own which is almost the opposite of mine. She paid double for her's, what a coincidence. LOL.
Crazy.
Now a judge will decide, a trial here will cost us $60-80K each or more.

Currently all the support money I pay for my son, she can do what ever she wants with it. I end up buying him things things like new shoes, etc as it obvious most women don't spent all the money on the kids. There is not much I can not unless I want to keep wasting money on lawyers.

[UrbanNerd]

Yeah, the main girl....ummm, you will have to work on that one. I thought the OP was referring to randoms during travels. With the main girl, the goal would be to get her "on your side" as much to keep her out the court system.

[DaveR]

(02-03-2014 09:10 AM)rishboy77 Wrote:  

That's exactly the problem I face. If your self employed no one really knows what your true income and she can and will contest it.

In my case I needed to spend tens of thousands on a independent business valuation and she got her own which is almost the opposite of mine.
Crazy.
Now a judge will decide, a trial here will cost us $60-80K each.

Currently all the support money I pay for my son, she can do what ever she wants with it. I end up buying him things things like new shoes, etc as it obvious most women don't spent all the money on the kids. There is not much I can not unless I want to keep wasting money on lawyers.

I agree there isn't much that can be done now. Ideally in the future, before you get married, you should ensure that you don't legally own anything... you can use trusts to put your assets in a 'deferred' legal state, so one day in the future they will be owned by your kids or someone else, but for now they are owned by nobody and in control of a third party (usually a lawyer). I admit it's quite complicated to set up a structure in Western countries... just makes me glad I'm in Russia and have all of my assets abroad.

There are some tips here: http://www.rooshvforum.network/thread-24888.html

I feel for you man..

(02-03-2014 09:18 AM)UrbanNerd Wrote:  

Yeah, the main girl....ummm, you will have to work on that one. I thought the OP was referring to randoms during travels. With the main girl, the goal would be to get her "on your side" as much to keep her out the court system.

I don't think trusting a woman is a good strategy...

[DaveR]

Another option... if your country doesn't have inheritance or gift taxes, put everything in a relative's name. I would trust my parents and my brother before any bitches that came into my life.

Can anyone give a legal take on that?

I think this area is one which definitely hasn't been given enough attention on this forum.

[iknowexactly]

Yeah, the according to US Federal law, the states as well as the federal government can cooperate with any foreign government on their own.

One time I actually found the documents online the woman would have to send from overseas to the child support authorities which established "proof" that someone is the father, the things required are pretty laughably vague, there is a questionnaire that asks something like , if she wasn't married to the father, "Were you living with him and not having sex with anyone else?"

That is actually considered EVIDENCE hahhah. '

But I don't think that's conclusive enough, what seems to be the big thing is if you were married there might be a presumption of fatherhood, if she can get it together to file in the USA.

One thing I've done by just being a beta loser, is just get old. If they start giving me shit about retroactive back support when I'm 70, I'll just give them the finger and keel over.

One of my friends had his passport taken away and they had him in court when the daughter was 20 and in college. Her mother had kidnapped her when she was three and changed the kid's name so the father lost all contact with the daughter all through her childhood. His only contact was them suing him for child support. His daughter, after trying and failing to get money from him as a young adult; has almost no contact with him.

The Bold below is from this web site:
http://www.state.gov/documents/organization/86823.pdf

In addition to providing authority for federal-level child support declarations, 42 U.S.C. 659a provides that:
The Uniform Interstate Family Support Act (UIFSA), which has been adopted by every state, provides that a state may enter into reciprocal arrangements for the enforcement of child support obligations with a foreign country that has procedures the state determines to be substantially similar to UIFSA. Information about U.S. states and other jurisdictions that have reciprocal arrangements with other countries is available on the HHS/ACF/OCSE Intergovernmental Referral Guide Public Map Page (IRG) under the heading “reciprocity” for each state.
7 FAM 1756 MULTILATERAL NEGOTIATIONS
(CT:CON-449; 03-25-2013)
The United States is not a party to any existing multilateral child support convention. The United States actively participated in the negotiation of a new multilateral convention on child support under the auspices of the Hague Conference on Private International Law. The United States signed the 2007 Hague Convention on the International Recovery of Child Support and Other Forms of Family Maintenance on November 23, 2007. The U.S. Senate provided its advice and consent to ratification of the Convention on September 29, 2010. The Convention is not yet in force for the United States, as implementing legislation has not yet been enacted at the Federal or State levels. We encourage other countries to consider becoming a party to this Convention. See The Hague Conference Internet page under works in progress, Maintenance Obligations. Address questions about this Convention to CA/OCS/L ([email protected]).
7 FAM 1757 CHILD SUPPORT ENFORCEMENT AND PARENTAL CHILD ABDUCTION
(CT:CON-327; 05-11-2010)
According to the U.S. Office of Child Support Enforcement policy issuance Dear Colleague Letter (DCL-99-19), “there is no Federal mandate under title IV-D of the Social Security Act that requires IV-D agencies to enforce child support where a custody dispute exists. The State IV-D agency clearly has discretion not to proceed in providing child support enforcement services in cases of disputed custody, even where there is a State or Federal reciprocity agreement with the
"[s]tates may enter into reciprocal arrangements for the establishment and enforcement of support obligations with foreign countries that are not the subject of a [federal] declaration ...to the extent consistent with Federal law."

[jimukr104]

Solution: don't have kids..get a cat!
That being said..
Best is to live overseas in country A away from country of citizenship ship(county B) and put financial assets in country c. This way if country B gets country A after you... they can't get your assets since they are in a 3rd country whee you are NOT even a resident of...thus no law applies. And in the time it would take for them to track down country C..you had time to load assets to country D!

[Celtic]

Well, as far as establishing paternity, DNA testing companies are capable of performing the test with the child and the father in different countries, so a US court could make you cooperate wtih a DNA test to establish just as if an American girl accused you of being her baby daddy. The US court could do this on behalf of a foreign child support enforcement agency.

No worries about retroactive child support though! That only comes into play if you have an actual support order and you ignore it.

Hope of some of y'all find this useful, I had to pay for this legal advice when I had my scare. Bottom line, just don't cum raw inside a girl, whether foreign or American. The fact of it is that these days being in different countries does not protect you the way it once might have. And even if it's not yours, it's not worth the stress and drama of having some foreign fling come after you.