[Needless]

I'm gonna try not to make this another 'There's this girl I like ...' type appeal...

You know her, mainly through a mutual friend. She's quite a lot younger than you, but you have no reason to think that's any barrier for her. From what the mutual friend has told you, any kind of relationship she has with men is centered around the fact she is so (plainly) gorgeous and all the men she knows can't help hitting on her - which seems to make her only more flirtatious and unable to interact with men any other way. Unfortunately he tells you this only after you made a move on her yourself and she turned her cheek to your kiss (this was a week ago).

It's also obvious she is very keen to be considered smart and intellectually capable - both of which she is - and not just a very hot girl.

With that roundabout introduction, the question is this: if you pursue her by appealing to that intellectual craving/vanity of hers, by having smart conversations about weighty subjects, you may give her what she wants, but do you get any closer to a romantic/sexual relationship? Or would you just end up a variation of the classic ego-boosting male friend she turns to for platonic conversation, meanwhile banging some other guy with no interest in her mind?

An old adage is that you compliment the intelligent woman on her looks and the beautiful woman on her understanding, but does the latter actually work? Is the way to get the woman who everyone hits on not to be the nth guy to make a move, but to be the guy who doesn't and, at first, has intelligent conversations with her instead? What would Roosh do about a girl like this?

[Roosh]

Quote:

she turned her cheek to your kiss (this was a week ago)

Alright. When a girl turns her cheek, your only hope is breaking through the same night it happened. For example in Argentina this was common. A girl would turn her cheek and i'd lean back, rebuild the attempt, and try again in about 20 minutes. Eventually i get the kiss and the cheek turn didn't make a big deal (it's an argentine thing).

But if you get the cheek turn and then part ways, man that's one big matzo ball hanging out there. The power is 100% in her hands. Even if you change gears and go cocky, she will rationalize that you are just bitter from her rejection. Unfortunately my friend your chances are very slim that this will proceed..

I'm sure she is hot and all, but chasing a girl who dissed you like that is a troubling sign.

That said, if i were you, i'd chalk it up. But since that's not the answer you were looking for, you do have one option. I would bring a date in her vicinity and make out with the date very sloppily in front of the girl as an attempt to make her jealous.

Jealousy is really your only option at this point. Trying to wow her with conversation is just supplication after a girl turns you down like that.

[Needless]

Good advice, thanks. Chances are indeed slim. I don't read that much into the cheek-turn, though - we'd both been dancing with each other and others for ages, and drinking, and she was all over me so I responded as seemed appropriate. Probably more a drunken lapse for both of us than a decisive move. I would have done it again if time had allowed - it's so true the first refusal of a kiss is far from always the final answer.

But on the wider point, is it in fact true that beautiful girls who are constantly being hit on sometimes respond better to a different approach? That the best way to compliment a beautiful woman is on her intelligence? She certainly wants to be thought intellectually capable - is that a way to get into bed with someone like her, or should one just do the usual playful flirting game stuff and show no interest in her mind?

[dollen]

How long before we see these?



I crack myself up!

[dollen]

That should be the title of you next book.

[Roosh]

Nice shirt!

If she wants to be intellectually capable, I would challenge her on that instead of complementing her.

[broken]

What game did you run before hand?

If you were "just being yourself", you're kinda missing the point.

[X-Factor]

Yo Needless.

Unless the circumstances are extreme, I would advise to NEVER try to appeal to a woman's intellect as a means of creating attraction. Women will tell you that "the brain is the biggest sex organ and turn on" blah blah blah. But we all know never to believe what a woman says, only believe the things they do. And really, this is not just specific to women, but since that is who we're talking about...

A good dialogue on the function of the UN in world peace-keeping missions just doesn't get the juices pumping for them. Sure, it's a nice change of pace for the woman that is constantly being hit on. But it doesn't create attraction. It has been my experience that this type of approach will lead you only to the dreaded friend zone, a place that is darn near impossible to escape.

I mean, that is how the classic "nice guy" would look at it: "If I appeal to her intellectual proclivities, I'll be different than all the other guys that hit on her for her looks." And that, my friend, will not get into her pants. Next thing you know, she is meeting you for coffee at Starbucks so she can tell you all her problems about this guy that boned her and who is a "jerk." All the while you're sitting there with a hard-on getting ready to cook spaghetti for her that night. I know because sadly, I've been there.

I agree with Roosh. The only way to try to salvage this is to show her that you're a sexual beast. If that doesn't work, then c'est la vie my friend.

[speakeasy]

(08-18-2008 11:14 AM)X-Factor Wrote:  

Yo Needless.

Unless the circumstances are extreme, I would advise to NEVER try to appeal to a woman's intellect as a means of creating attraction. Women will tell you that "the brain is the biggest sex organ and turn on" blah blah blah. But we all know never to believe what a woman says, only believe the things they do. And really, this is not just specific to women, but since that is who we're talking about...

A good dialogue on the function of the UN in world peace-keeping missions just doesn't get the juices pumping for them. Sure, it's a nice change of pace for the woman that is constantly being hit on. But it doesn't create attraction. It has been my experience that this type of approach will lead you only to the dreaded friend zone, a place that is darn near impossible to escape.

I mean, that is how the classic "nice guy" would look at it: "If I appeal to her intellectual proclivities, I'll be different than all the other guys that hit on her for her looks." And that, my friend, will not get into her pants. Next thing you know, she is meeting you for coffee at Starbucks so she can tell you all her problems about this guy that boned her and who is a "jerk." All the while you're sitting there with a hard-on getting ready to cook spaghetti for her that night. I know because sadly, I've been there.

I agree with Roosh. The only way to try to salvage this is to show her that you're a sexual beast. If that doesn't work, then c'est la vie my friend.

I really, really wish that wasn't true, because personally, I like cultured, intellectual women. The type that can explain the difference between neo-conservatism and conservatism(not that that's what I'd be talking about on a date, I'm just saying that caliber of mind). Or who know something about what the Taliban was doing before we invaded Afganistan. Your typical girl who loves American Idol, celebrity gossip and listens to top 40 music has no appeal to me whatsoever. There's nothing like meeting a girl who is wordly, traveled, well read, speaks a few languages, listens to out of the way foreign music AND is a looker. I recently met up with such a woman a few weeks back and it was one of the best times I've ever had out with a girl. Unfortunately, I wasn't able to successfully escalate. But I think that's for reasons beyond simply the conversation topics. I think you can touch on intelligent topics, just don't delve into politics and things that are controversial. I think if you mix it up with making her laugh and trying to escalate the kino and maybe taking her somewhere that you can dance, then you should be okay.

An ideal date for me would be going to a loungy modern restuarant/bar and having a few drinks, a great conversation that is intelligent, flirty and interesting.

I've gone on dates where I knew the type of girl I was out with would have no interest in discussing anything intelligent, so I just sort of "dumbed myself down" and avoided talking about anything heavy. But I know that I can't take such a girl seriously. When I do come across one that I know is my type mentally and enjoys talking about things I'm passionate about discussing, then it's difficult to hold back, just out of the theoretical possibility that it may be shutting off her sexual attraction mechanism. I think such a girl will take longer to win over than your typical club girl shaking her ass to top 40 hip hop.

[duncanidaho]

I think the title of Roosh's next book (provided it's a follow up to his first book) should be entitled:

"Bang Bang".

[X-Factor]

(08-18-2008 01:05 PM)speakeasy Wrote:  

I really, really wish that wasn't true, because personally, I like cultured, intellectual women. The type that can explain the difference between neo-conservatism and conservatism(not that that's what I'd be talking about on a date, I'm just saying that caliber of mind). Or who know something about what the Taliban was doing before we invaded Afganistan. Your typical girl who loves American Idol, celebrity gossip and listens to top 40 music has no appeal to me whatsoever. There's nothing like meeting a girl who is wordly, traveled, well read, speaks a few languages, listens to out of the way foreign music AND is a looker. I recently met up with such a woman a few weeks back and it was one of the best times I've ever had out with a girl. Unfortunately, I wasn't able to successfully escalate. But I think that's for reasons beyond simply the conversation topics. I think you can touch on intelligent topics, just don't delve into politics and things that are controversial. I think if you mix it up with making her laugh and trying to escalate the kino and maybe taking her somewhere that you can dance, then you should be okay.

An ideal date for me would be going to a loungy modern restuarant/bar and having a few drinks, a great conversation that is intelligent, flirty and interesting.

I've gone on dates where I knew the type of girl I was out with would have no interest in discussing anything intelligent, so I just sort of "dumbed myself down" and avoided talking about anything heavy. But I know that I can't take such a girl seriously. When I do come across one that I know is my type mentally and enjoys talking about things I'm passionate about discussing, then it's difficult to hold back, just out of the theoretical possibility that it may be shutting off her sexual attraction mechanism. I think such a girl will take longer to win over than your typical club girl shaking her ass to top 40 hip hop.

I couldn’t agree more. In fact, I agree 100% with you. I have a master’s degree and two bachelor’s degrees. I like to talk about intelligent subjects. And you really hit the nail on the head when you said you need to mix it up. Talking about heady topics and then showing her your wild side creates a little dissonance and confusion in her mind, and in turn, creates attraction.

But just going to a coffee shop and discussing the front page of USA Today or WSJ is going to put you into the friend zone quicker than anything if you can’t escalate (which is why you need booze, a comfortable atmosphere, and low lighting). This is coming from my own personal experience. The nice thing about getting a little older (I’m 31) is that you run into the quality women a little more, the kind of woman you describe (well-traveled, well-read, and well-proportioned).