[Buddy Orion]

My dad is a successful university professor and he sees all the different kids going through university who have no clue what they want to do and he knows they are doomed to mediocrity after graduating. He's helping me set up a couple businesses that I will work on after graduating high school while I can continue competitively with my sport for a couple years. If they don't work out, I will have to head back to university and pursue some sort of academic career. I'm 17 and I've been red pill for about a year and a half now. I've heard every story about the scams of getting a worthless uni degree and I know that if I go it'd be in a STEM degree for sure.

My dad has had countless doctorate and post-grad employees go through his lab and land jobs that give them at the most $42000 per year salaries. I could probably make that much money selling hot dogs outside a Home Depot. I know of countless successful people who didn't graduate university (Steve Jobs, Jay-Z, etc...), so it's possible for sure. Many bloggers in the Manosphere live that way too. I have no passions for any subject that can be studied in university either.

SO. My question to my fellow red pillers is:

Should I grind it out with business and risk living poor or should I get a degree and go for the best 9-5 job I can? In the back of my mind, I want to be an entrepreneur until I die, and I have the mind for it, and ideas that are realistic and can work. I just can't tell if my fear of not going to university is rational or just socially conditioned. Please give me some advice guys, I don't want to waste my youth going insane inside a school... But I don't want to fuck myself over either.

[The Beast1]

If your dad is a professor, can't you get an employee discount and have near free tuition?

Most college degrees are worthless, but if you can go to college for free why not?

[Suits]

Why can't you do both?

[Dr. Howard]

The fact that your Dad is a professor and is steering you away from University is a telling sign. That being said, you should be able to get free tuition? In that case I agree with Suits. Pursue a college degree part time that goes along with one of your businesses. If there is no college degree that matches, pursue a tech school diploma that matches with it.

[Buddy Orion]

(01-04-2014 11:10 AM)Suits Wrote:  

Why can't you do both?

I will have to move across the country to take my sport to the next level, and would likely go to a different university. Plus, the university that employs him is top tier in only a few fields and none that I have considered doing.

There is no way I can keep up my grades and do business at the same time either.

My biggest fear is getting a job that has a salary cap and limits my potential to make money. No way am I settling with a $42000 salary, and that guy was the best my dad has ever had.

[Buddy Orion]

(01-04-2014 11:14 AM)wiscanada Wrote:  

The fact that your Dad is a professor and is steering you away from University is a telling sign. That being said, you should be able to get free tuition? In that case I agree with Suits. Pursue a college degree part time that goes along with one of your businesses. If there is no college degree that matches, pursue a tech school diploma that matches with it.

What about college courses in business? Finance, marketing, accounting, etc... There is a college close to where I will be moving next year.

[Suits]

If you have the potential to start a money earning business, doing a uni degree would simply be a distraction/fallback option.

If you have the resources and already have a workable business idea that you can be passionate about, focus on that.

Ideally, get a location independent business running or something that would be hard to co-ordinate with your sports career.

Meanwhile, gradually take some cheap online courses that you are sure will transfer to your dad's university and some other places you might consider attending. Then, if you decide three, four or six years down the road that a university degree is something you need, you won't be staring four years of full-time school in the face.

Just take some general online courses, the sort that would take care of core/breadth requirements and shoot towards building a transfer ready transcript of about 1.5 years of college education.

That would leave only 2.5 years of full-time study, which isn't a terribly long and could be very reasonably done in 4 years on a part-time basis if you have other commitments at that point.

Don't study business as a major. Unless you do accounting, business courses won't teach you anything you couldn't easily learn from a book. Even MBA programs don't want undergrad business majors. Do economics instead, if you want a business education. Chose majors based on what is going to give you unique skills that will compliment your natural abilities/giftedness well.

[Goldin Boy]

Quote:

My dad has had countless doctorate and post-grad employees go through his lab and land jobs that give them at the most $42000 per year salaries. I could probably make that much money selling hot dogs outside a Home Depot. I know of countless successful people who didn't graduate university (Steve Jobs, Jay-Z, etc...), so it's possible for sure. Many bloggers in the Manosphere live that way too. I have no passions for any subject that can be studied in university either.

Keep in mind those people you named are the exception to the rule. Guys like them (the most successful kind) have tunnel-vision, they are obsessed with their vision. They sacrifice quality time with friends to build their businesses. They have concrete goals and steps to reach them and they will use anyone on the way to the top (look up how Jay-Z took advantage of State Property).

Don't get me wrong, I have no problem with ppl who exploit the weak to achieve ones ends, just pointing it out

Think about what your business plan is: Is there collegiate field you can study that can perhaps help you (Comp Sci, Engineering, etc)? If no, and you have no financial aid, I'd wouldn't go, starting working saving funds for your venture.

Fyi: You can buy legit looking degrees online.

[Buddy Orion]

(01-04-2014 11:26 AM)Suits Wrote:  

If you have the potential to start a money earning business, doing a uni degree would simply be a distraction/fallback option.

If you have the resources and already have a workable business idea that you can be passionate about, focus on that.

Ideally, get a location independent business running or something that would be hard to co-ordinate with your sports career.

Meanwhile, gradually take some cheap online courses that you are sure will transfer to your dad's university and some other places you might consider attending. Then, if you decide three, four or six years down the road that a university degree is something you need, you won't be staring four years of full-time school in the face.

Just take some general online courses, the sort that would take care of core/breadth requirements and shoot towards building a transfer ready transcript of about 1.5 years of college education.

That would leave only 2.5 years of full-time study, which isn't a terribly long and could be very reasonably done in 4 years on a part-time basis if you have other commitments at that point.

Don't study business as a major. Unless you do accounting, business courses won't teach you anything you could learn from a book. Even MBA programs don't want undergrad business majors. Do economics instead, if you want a business education. Chose majors based on what is going to give you unique skills that will compliment your natural abilities/giftedness well.

Thanks so much. Location independence is something I dream of everyday. When you say economics, do you mean micro or macro? I'm good in math and could combine the two for sure. I'm interested by the idea of economics but it's hard to find any info on what someone with an economics degree actually does...

[MHaes]

Finance/accounting are both solid degrees to get.

However, if you are pursuing your sport next year first and foremost, than I would say try your hand at the businesses. If they don't work out, than so be it, but you will come away from the experience a) with some real world experience, b) it won't be like you were just fucking around those years because you will have also been competing in this sport (hopefully its a strength based sport so you can get somewhat jacked as well).

If it doesn't work out, you can go back to university for free/next-to-nothing thanks to your dad, and get your degree. It sounds like his uni teaches mostly science courses, so go for a degree in (Micro)Bio/BioTech. If you like the coursework than think about medical school (definitely more than $42,000/year), and if not, see if you can just power through the degree (since its free) and then look into jobs as a analyst for financial firms working in the healthcare field, or get a job at one of those medical technology/pharmaceutical companies but on the business side as opposed to the actual science side (you will probably make more $$ on biz side). However for this second route you may need to go back to school to get MBA or something, but honestly that is not too bad, especially since you will have 0 debt from your first 4 years.

[Buddy Orion]

(01-04-2014 11:30 AM)Goldin Boy Wrote:  

Quote:

My dad has had countless doctorate and post-grad employees go through his lab and land jobs that give them at the most $42000 per year salaries. I could probably make that much money selling hot dogs outside a Home Depot. I know of countless successful people who didn't graduate university (Steve Jobs, Jay-Z, etc...), so it's possible for sure. Many bloggers in the Manosphere live that way too. I have no passions for any subject that can be studied in university either.

Keep in mind those people you named are the exception to the rule. Guys like them (the most successful kind) have tunnel-vision, they are obsessed with their vision. They sacrifice quality time with friends to build their businesses. They have concrete goals and steps to reach them and they will use anyone on the way to the top (look up how Jay-Z took advantage of State Property).

Don't get me wrong, I have no problem with ppl who exploit the weak to achieve ones ends, just pointing it out

Think about what your business plan is: Is there collegiate field you can study that can perhaps help you (Comp Sci, Engineering, etc)? If no, and you have no financial aid, I'd wouldn't go, starting working saving funds for your venture.

Fyi: You can buy legit looking degrees online.

I think the reason those guys are the exception to the rule is because they actually follow through with their ideas and believe it is possible. Your quote definitely reminded me of that.

At the moment, I can't see how any university degree could translate over into buying and selling product, promotion, manufacturing, marketing, or being an intelligent individual who can represent himself professionally. The more I think about it the more I think that university is not the way for me to go.

Thanks for the advice

[Suits]

(01-04-2014 11:38 AM)Buddy Orion Wrote:  

At the moment, I can't see how any university degree could translate over into buying and selling product, promotion, manufacturing, marketing, or being an intelligent individual who can represent himself professionally.

You can't see how because you haven't attended university.

My story
I started university over eight years ago. That was after taking a gap year off after high school to work and travel. I'm about to graduate.

I just finished by 9th semester. I've spent extra time in uni because I've taken frequent breaks to work, travel and build experience.

I will be going into small business, working as a consultant. I won't be actively pursuing a job (because I can make plenty of money just teaching English in China for a minimum number of hours each week), and will simply begin working for myself. I'll be approaching a number of potential clients offering my services, but I won't be applying to be a full time employee anywhere.

Considering how I will be working for myself, why was university not a waste of my time?

*Having an undergraduate degree makes it a lot easier for me to get work visas and permits in other countries.

*Spending time in the university environment exposed me to different people than go-it-alone would have right out of high school. It means that now, as I build a business model for my consulting agency, I have professors who are happy to have me come by their offices at any time and bounce business ideas off of. I get the benefit of their hundreds of years of combined experience.

*I'm educated about a range of subjects. I've taken core requirement classes that I had no interest in and never would have investigated on my own. I took a geology course this last semester that I wouldn't have taken if I hadn't been more or less forced to, but it ended up being a very educational experience that will be useful to my consultancy. Although this has been somewhat undermined by college being turned into an industry, the purpose of a degree is equal parts skills building and personal development. It definitely has been super useful to me in my personal development.

*I'll be going into educational consulting. Being pissed off at the current post-secondary education schemes has led me to brain storm about solutions and the answer that I've come up with have become the basis of my consulting business plan. I will be offering services that will appeal to people like yourself, who want to get somewhere in life without shelling out big money for a degree of questionable workplace value. Having the experience of seeing post-secondary educational for what it is has been educational on more than one level.

*I've made friends with above average college students rather than below average high school graduates. I know that it is unfair to characterize everyone who doesn't go to university as below average, but in general, talented, motivated people will and won't meet them at the local factory, unless then are college students working part-time.

*Doing college has given me an avenue to see other countries. I've studied in China for years, earning credit their for cheaper than I would have in the US, towards my degree. While I could have conceivably gone to China without being a student, it gave me an easy way to get long term access to the country and network domestically. Once I did that, I learned how to beat the visa system and did more time their just working. But without going their as a student, I wouldn't have built the experience to work under the table as I did. I would have had to finish school and then apply for a work visa through normal channels.

In general, though being a student is a great way to see a third world country. Go for a semester and you get three to four months exposures, because anything less than that is not even scratching the surface. Student housing is cheap and tuition isn't that high if you study independent of your home university.

*College parties.

[Buddy Orion]

(01-04-2014 12:21 PM)Suits Wrote:  

(01-04-2014 11:38 AM)Buddy Orion Wrote:  

At the moment, I can't see how any university degree could translate over into buying and selling product, promotion, manufacturing, marketing, or being an intelligent individual who can represent himself professionally.

You can't see how because you haven't attended university.

My story
I started university over eight years ago. That was after taking a gap year off after high school to work and travel. I'm about to graduate.

I just finished by 9th semester. I've spent extra time in uni because I've taken frequent breaks to work, travel and build experience.

I will be going into small business, working as a consultant. I won't be actively pursuing a job (because I can make plenty of money just teaching English in China for a minimum number of hours each week), and will simply begin working for myself. I'll be approaching a number of potential clients offering my services, but I won't be applying to be a full time employee anywhere.

Considering how I will be working for myself, why was university not a waste of my time?

*Having an undergraduate degree makes it a lot easier for me to get work visas and permits in other countries.

*Spending time in the university environment exposed me to different people than go-it-alone would have right out of high school. It means that now, as I build a business model for my consulting agency, I have professors who are happy to have me come by their offices at any time and bounce business ideas off of. I get the benefit of their hundreds of years of combined experience.

*I'm educated about a range of subjects. I've taken core requirement classes that I had no interest in and never would have investigated on my own. I took a geology course this last semester that I wouldn't have taken if I hadn't been more or less forced to, but it ended up being a very educational experience that will be useful to my consultancy. Although this has been somewhat undermined by college being turned into an industry, the purpose of a degree is equal parts skills building and personal development. It definitely has been super useful to me in my personal development.

*I'll be going into educational consulting. Being pissed off at the current post-secondary education schemes has led me to brain storm about solutions and the answer that I've come up with have become the basis of my consulting business plan. I will be offering services that will appeal to people like yourself, who want to get somewhere in life without shelling out big money for a degree of questionable workplace value. Having the experience of seeing post-secondary educational for what it is has been educational on more than one level.

*I've made friends with above average college students rather than below average high school graduates. I know that it is unfair to characterize everyone who doesn't go to university as below average, but in general, talented, motivated people will and won't meet them at the local factory, unless then are college students working part-time.

*Doing college has given me an avenue to see other countries. I've studied in China for years, earning credit their for cheaper than I would have in the US, towards my degree. While I could have conceivably gone to China without being a student, it gave me an easy way to get long term access to the country and network domestically. Once I did that, I learned how to beat the visa system and did more time their just working. But without going their as a student, I wouldn't have built the experience to work under the table as I did. I would have had to finish school and then apply for a work visa through normal channels.

In general, though being a student is a great way to see a third world country. Go for a semester and you get three to four months exposures, because anything less than that is not even scratching the surface. Student housing is cheap and tuition isn't that high if you study independent of your home university.

*College parties.

So you're saying the college experience is valuable not because of the degree that I will earn but because it will provide me with complimentary skills to entrepreneurship?

So, go to uni, but then become an entrepreneur afterwards. I can see that.

Are college parties really that good? I've been to a few with my buddy who is in his first year and wasn't super impressed, but then again I didn't know anyone.

[Suits]

(01-04-2014 12:36 PM)Buddy Orion Wrote:  

(01-04-2014 12:21 PM)Suits Wrote:  

(01-04-2014 11:38 AM)Buddy Orion Wrote:  

At the moment, I can't see how any university degree could translate over into buying and selling product, promotion, manufacturing, marketing, or being an intelligent individual who can represent himself professionally.

You can't see how because you haven't attended university.

My story
I started university over eight years ago. That was after taking a gap year off after high school to work and travel. I'm about to graduate.

I just finished by 9th semester. I've spent extra time in uni because I've taken frequent breaks to work, travel and build experience.

I will be going into small business, working as a consultant. I won't be actively pursuing a job (because I can make plenty of money just teaching English in China for a minimum number of hours each week), and will simply begin working for myself. I'll be approaching a number of potential clients offering my services, but I won't be applying to be a full time employee anywhere.

Considering how I will be working for myself, why was university not a waste of my time?

*Having an undergraduate degree makes it a lot easier for me to get work visas and permits in other countries.

*Spending time in the university environment exposed me to different people than go-it-alone would have right out of high school. It means that now, as I build a business model for my consulting agency, I have professors who are happy to have me come by their offices at any time and bounce business ideas off of. I get the benefit of their hundreds of years of combined experience.

*I'm educated about a range of subjects. I've taken core requirement classes that I had no interest in and never would have investigated on my own. I took a geology course this last semester that I wouldn't have taken if I hadn't been more or less forced to, but it ended up being a very educational experience that will be useful to my consultancy. Although this has been somewhat undermined by college being turned into an industry, the purpose of a degree is equal parts skills building and personal development. It definitely has been super useful to me in my personal development.

*I'll be going into educational consulting. Being pissed off at the current post-secondary education schemes has led me to brain storm about solutions and the answer that I've come up with have become the basis of my consulting business plan. I will be offering services that will appeal to people like yourself, who want to get somewhere in life without shelling out big money for a degree of questionable workplace value. Having the experience of seeing post-secondary educational for what it is has been educational on more than one level.

*I've made friends with above average college students rather than below average high school graduates. I know that it is unfair to characterize everyone who doesn't go to university as below average, but in general, talented, motivated people will and won't meet them at the local factory, unless then are college students working part-time.

*Doing college has given me an avenue to see other countries. I've studied in China for years, earning credit their for cheaper than I would have in the US, towards my degree. While I could have conceivably gone to China without being a student, it gave me an easy way to get long term access to the country and network domestically. Once I did that, I learned how to beat the visa system and did more time their just working. But without going their as a student, I wouldn't have built the experience to work under the table as I did. I would have had to finish school and then apply for a work visa through normal channels.

In general, though being a student is a great way to see a third world country. Go for a semester and you get three to four months exposures, because anything less than that is not even scratching the surface. Student housing is cheap and tuition isn't that high if you study independent of your home university.

*College parties.

So you're saying the college experience is valuable not because of the degree that I will earn but because it will provide me with complimentary skills to entrepreneurship?

So, go to uni, but then become an entrepreneur afterwards. I can see that.

Are college parties really that good? I've been to a few with my buddy who is in his first year and wasn't super impressed, but then again I didn't know anyone.

You can only do so much in a life time. What do you see as the end result of your sports career?

You cannot do school, sports and expect to have enough time to achieve results as an entrepreneur all at the same time, unless you do school extremely part-time (one online course at a time, two years of study spread over three to five years).

If you must be a serious athlete, either business or school will have to go on the back burner for a while.

Unless you can successfully go pro in a sport that plays decently, focusing on a sport is going to slow down your plans.

So, you need to wait on one of the three: athletics, education or career.

The choice is yours.

And yes, university can be a "greater than the parts" experience.

College parties mostly suck. You need to get invited to the good ones. Or throw good parties.

[Blaster]

Quote:

I just can't tell if my fear of not going to university is rational or just socially conditioned.

It's a little of both.

The main downsides of going are costs (tuition, books, etc.) and insulation from reality which can stunt development of important real-world skills. You can partially address the latter concern by running a business and living on your own instead of in the dorms/residence halls.

The main upsides are access to smart professors who can motivate you to learn, help you get past initial learning roadblocks by guiding you to the best materials, and by challenging you to meet your potential. There's something about a classroom environment, too, that can't be replaced by books and video lectures. Another upside is opportunities to meet a wide range a people and build a network of contacts. (This upside is way overplayed sometimes. People often act like this is the only useful thing about going to college, but it's nevertheless worth mentioning)

My generic advice about college if you choose to go:

1. Pick a school with a reputation for strong academics.

2. Picking a STEM major is less important than NOT picking a fluff major for a frivolous reason and expecting work to be available when you graduate.

3. When evaluating and choosing professors, take rumors/complaints about difficulty with a grain of salt, especially from girls. Sometimes the hardest professors are also the best if you are a good student. That said, pay attention to complaints of feminism and bigotry and steer clear unless you've got some credits to burn and don't care.

4. When all else is equal, choose teachers highly fluent in your native language. One of the best reasons for attending classes goes to shit if there's a substantial communication barrier.

[gfly]

throw down on your sport. just don't be a loser about it if it doesn't pan out after a reasonable effort. then deal with business, and or uni. one warning if you start uni after a couple of years living on your own pursuing sport or selling hotdogs college freshmen will seem like children. I always preferred the night classes filled with adults, even though many of them are much older. obviously if you have game and banging is number one priority head straight to college. and remember those salary surveys about the value of college are always 40 years out of date.

[Buddy Orion]

(01-04-2014 12:54 PM)gfly Wrote:  

throw down on your sport. just don't be a loser about it if it doesn't pan out after a reasonable effort. then deal with business, and or uni. one warning if you start uni after a couple of years living on your own pursuing sport or selling hotdogs college freshmen will seem like children. I always preferred the night classes filled with adults, even though many of them are much older. obviously if you have game and banging is number one priority head straight to college. and remember those salary surveys about the value of college are always 40 years out of date.

In two years time I will have competed in the Elite Men category for a year. If it's not going anywhere at that point, I'm willing to call it a good run and move on. My business plans are very compatible with my training/competition schedule too so I will have some momentum if my sport doesn't go anywhere.

[Suits]

(01-04-2014 01:16 PM)Buddy Orion Wrote:  

(01-04-2014 12:54 PM)gfly Wrote:  

throw down on your sport. just don't be a loser about it if it doesn't pan out after a reasonable effort. then deal with business, and or uni. one warning if you start uni after a couple of years living on your own pursuing sport or selling hotdogs college freshmen will seem like children. I always preferred the night classes filled with adults, even though many of them are much older. obviously if you have game and banging is number one priority head straight to college. and remember those salary surveys about the value of college are always 40 years out of date.

In two years time I will have competed in the Elite Men category for a year. If it's not going anywhere at that point, I'm willing to call it a good run and move on. My business plans are very compatible with my training/competition schedule too so I will have some momentum if my sport doesn't go anywhere.

In that case, spend the next two years focused on that, while working on game and either (a) reading a good non-fiction book per week or (b) taking part-time college classes online.

When you're ready to rumble, come back and ask us whether you should go to university or start a business (or both).

[Buddy Orion]

Sweet, thanks everyone for the great advice!

[soup]

I'd only go to university if it was neccesary to getting some kind of liscencse (lawyer, doctor) to do what I wanted to do with my life.

Otherwise it's autodidactic all the way. Try apprenticing with someone you respect.

[Hencredible Casanova]

I'm surprised no one has emphasized chicks. College provides unparalleled context to increase your notch count.

[J.J.]

(01-04-2014 02:02 PM)Hencredible Casanova Wrote:  

I'm surprised no one has emphasized chicks. College provides unparalleled context to increase your notch count.

College is the only place and time in your life where the ratios are you in your favor by a wide margin. Not to mention girls being at their peak attractiveness. Why not take advantage of that opportunity?

[Suits]

(01-04-2014 11:32 AM)Buddy Orion Wrote:  

When you say economics, do you mean micro or macro?

Applied economics.

[Blaster]

(01-04-2014 02:02 PM)Hencredible Casanova Wrote:  

I'm surprised no one has emphasized chicks. College provides unparalleled context to increase your notch count.

This is true but there's still the question of costs. How much tuition are you willing to spend for access to pussy?

[younggamer1992]

I think its better to start off in a job around 16 and stick with that kind of job to move up in the ranks. No school no anything, maybe training if job requires. Youll acquire more respect that way