[pants]

Many good advice here so far!
Good to ask some guys without a medical degree. Although I believe in western medicine, the problem is there lots of great resources in traditional medicine, but there is no reason to promote them from medical companies as its impossible to get a patent.

Many things I will try out in 2014, as mentioned before psychedelics are a last resort to unwind this mental twist.

Hope other users as well get some benefit from this thread.

Merry Christmas!

[Bill]

(12-24-2013 03:27 PM)The Lizard of Oz Wrote:  

(12-24-2013 03:15 PM)Bill Wrote:  

But the more difficult part is reducing stress. That is something where a lot of constant work has to be put on.

There is a little trick.

Don't think of reducing stress as something that you "work" on. That way, it's just another chore that you have to worry about.

Instead, just let it go. Think of being stressed as one more thing in your life that you don't need, and let go of it.

This may seem like just playing with words, but it isn't.

It's not work, or adding one more task -- it's letting go of something.

Like having a weight you didn't even realize was there drop off your shoulders. Now you can breathe easier.

That would be the nicer way but I doubt it would work for the most. Reminds me of positive thinking. Cognitive dissonance could be the consequence.

[Giovonny]

(12-24-2013 12:57 PM)Tail Gunner Wrote:  

The only thing that I would be very cautious about is taking any illicit drug, such as magic mushrooms or pot.

I generally agree with you about being cautious.

However, I don't consider these to be "illicit drugs". I disagree with the official government classification.

I call them plants. (maybe, mushrooms are technically a "fungi")

Wine comes from plants. (Grapes)

Beer comes from plants. (Barley, hops, wheat, etc.)

Why are mushrooms and cannabis "illicit" but beer and wine are not???

Alcohol is just as addictive if not more, and just as dangerous if not more..

I know this is a totally different topic but I just wanted to make that point.

What some people call "illicit", other people call "natural".

(12-24-2013 12:57 PM)Tail Gunner Wrote:  

The other thing is to try one thing at a time, if you can, rather than all at once -

This is a very important point.

Don't try everything at once. Try one simple thing at a time.

Simple, easy steps first.

(12-24-2013 01:24 PM)The Lizard of Oz Wrote:  

All serious psychotropic substances, whether illicit or prescription drugs, are very tricky and unpredictable.

I'm glad you stated this.

Anti-depressants should be used with just as much caution and care.

(12-24-2013 01:24 PM)The Lizard of Oz Wrote:  

If a problem can be treated without recourse to these crude and risky chemical interventions, then they should be avoided.

Agreed.

[Tail Gunner]

(12-24-2013 04:46 PM)Giovonny Wrote:  

(12-24-2013 12:57 PM)Tail Gunner Wrote:  

The only thing that I would be very cautious about is taking any illicit drug, such as magic mushrooms or pot.

I generally agree with you about being cautious.

However, I don't consider these to be "illicit drugs". I disagree with the official government classification.

I call them plants. (maybe, mushrooms are technically a "fungi")

Wine comes from plants. (Grapes)

Beer comes from plants. (Barley, hops, wheat, etc.)

Why are mushrooms and cannabis "illicit" but beer and wine are not???

Alcohol is just as addictive if not more, and just as dangerous if not more..

I know this is a totally different topic but I just wanted to make that point.

What some people call "illicit", other people call "natural".

I should have stated "mind-altering." As several people have already mentioned, alcohol should also be avoided in regard to anxiety.

[The Lizard of Oz]

(12-24-2013 04:13 PM)Bill Wrote:  

(12-24-2013 03:27 PM)The Lizard of Oz Wrote:  

(12-24-2013 03:15 PM)Bill Wrote:  

But the more difficult part is reducing stress. That is something where a lot of constant work has to be put on.

There is a little trick.

Don't think of reducing stress as something that you "work" on. That way, it's just another chore that you have to worry about.

Instead, just let it go. Think of being stressed as one more thing in your life that you don't need, and let go of it.

This may seem like just playing with words, but it isn't.

It's not work, or adding one more task -- it's letting go of something.

Like having a weight you didn't even realize was there drop off your shoulders. Now you can breathe easier.

That would be the nicer way but I doubt it would work for the most. Reminds me of positive thinking. Cognitive dissonance could be the consequence.

No, this has nothing to do with positive thinking. Let me explain.

The reason to think of it this way is because that's how it really is.

Anxiety is something that goes on in your brain that just doesn't need to be there. It's like an annoying fly buzzing in a room.

You open the window and let it go.

Opening the window is analogous to the work you need to do. Get yourself on a consistent sleeping schedule; don't abuse your brain with alcohol, caffeine and other stimulants or depressants; use CBT to understand and dispute your irrational thoughts.

All of these efforts are about creating the conditions that will allow you to be rid of anxiety. That's what the "work" part consists of.

But you don't "work on removing the anxiety" -- you create the right conditions, and then you let go of it.

It breaks like a fever.

By the way: anxiety is a lot like sexual jealousy. They're both conditions that are completely absorbing at the time, and incomprehensible to you once they're gone. How could I be so stressed about this stupid interview? How could I spend all my waking and sleeping hours thinking about whose cock this worthless bitch is sucking? Yet at the time, there is nothing else.

You can't fight these things directly -- it's useless. You open the window (which may take work if it's been bolted down). And you let the fly out of the room.

[Beyond Borders]

(12-24-2013 04:46 PM)Giovonny Wrote:  

(12-24-2013 12:57 PM)Tail Gunner Wrote:  

The only thing that I would be very cautious about is taking any illicit drug, such as magic mushrooms or pot.

I generally agree with you about being cautious.

However, I don't consider these to be "illicit drugs". I disagree with the official government classification.

I call them plants. (maybe, mushrooms are technically a "fungi")

Wine comes from plants. (Grapes)

Beer comes from plants. (Barley, hops, wheat, etc.)

Why are mushrooms and cannabis "illicit" but beer and wine are not???

Alcohol is just as addictive if not more, and just as dangerous if not more..

I know this is a totally different topic but I just wanted to make that point.

What some people call "illicit", other people call "natural".

I don't think everyone responds the same to "natural drugs."

I've done mushies and found it to be the most life-altering experience. I especially found this to be a good time to sort through my anxieties.

But I've also done them and wigged the fuck out.

One guy near where I grew up who was (apparently) mentally unstable killed one of his best friends. Cut out his tongue. Most of his face. Cut out his heart, cooked it up and ate it while frying on nothing more than mushrooms. He tried to kill himself in jail when he realized what he'd done.

Of course, that's very extreme and not rare - not fear-mongering here. The more unstable your mind is (read "anxious" if you will) the more likely weird shit going to happen.

But let's not pretend it's some cure-all for psychological delimnas. That's just irresponsible.

It's always good to be cautious about recommending mind-altering substances to other people, especially when they're already struggling to control their mind. Opening up those doorways is always something that should be done when you legitimately feel you're ready and are in a safe environment.

Wine and beer are poor comparison points - I think most every person offering advice in this thread would agree that alcohol is a bad idea for people who are depressed or facing problems with anxiety.

[Giovonny]

(12-24-2013 09:24 PM)Beyond Borders Wrote:  

when you legitimately feel you're ready and are in a safe environment.

Great point. This can not be overstated.

Only use psychedelic plants with trusted friends/family in a safe environment and mind state.

I also recommend only doing them out in deep nature. Like, around campfire at Monument National Park in Utah.

Mushroom induced violence is extremely rare.

Here is an earlier thread on the subject if anyone's interested:

The power of magic mushrooms

[Bill]

(12-24-2013 05:19 PM)The Lizard of Oz Wrote:  

(12-24-2013 04:13 PM)Bill Wrote:  

(12-24-2013 03:27 PM)The Lizard of Oz Wrote:  

(12-24-2013 03:15 PM)Bill Wrote:  

But the more difficult part is reducing stress. That is something where a lot of constant work has to be put on.

There is a little trick.

Don't think of reducing stress as something that you "work" on. That way, it's just another chore that you have to worry about.

Instead, just let it go. Think of being stressed as one more thing in your life that you don't need, and let go of it.

This may seem like just playing with words, but it isn't.

It's not work, or adding one more task -- it's letting go of something.

Like having a weight you didn't even realize was there drop off your shoulders. Now you can breathe easier.

That would be the nicer way but I doubt it would work for the most. Reminds me of positive thinking. Cognitive dissonance could be the consequence.

No, this has nothing to do with positive thinking. Let me explain.

The reason to think of it this way is because that's how it really is.

Anxiety is something that goes on in your brain that just doesn't need to be there. It's like an annoying fly buzzing in a room.

You open the window and let it go.

Opening the window is analogous to the work you need to do. Get yourself on a consistent sleeping schedule; don't abuse your brain with alcohol, caffeine and other stimulants or depressants; use CBT to understand and dispute your irrational thoughts.

All of these efforts are about creating the conditions that will allow you to be rid of anxiety. That's what the "work" part consists of.

But you don't "work on removing the anxiety" -- you create the right conditions, and then you let go of it.

It breaks like a fever.

By the way: anxiety is a lot like sexual jealousy. They're both conditions that are completely absorbing at the time, and incomprehensible to you once they're gone. How could I be so stressed about this stupid interview? How could I spend all my waking and sleeping hours thinking about whose cock this worthless bitch is sucking? Yet at the time, there is nothing else.

You can't fight these things directly -- it's useless. You open the window (which may take work if it's been bolted down). And you let the fly out of the room.

In positive psychology, anxiety is described as the mental state that results from a difficult challenge for which the subject has insufficient coping skills.


as with many things:
for some it may be easy like opening the window
for some it´s a lot of work
for some almost not reachable in spite of working hard, suffering and fighting.

[Tenerife]

If you've got anxiety issues, don't touch shrooms, marijuana, cocaine, lsd, or any of that shit. Also, if you have any latent schizophrenia, you can suffer instant problems, which is probably what was mentioned above when someone took shrooms and killed a friend.

Marijuana is a hardcore drug. Most people can take it and be fine, but for others it can cause serious mental problems that are either difficult to remedy, or perhaps impossible. Millions of people are suffering mental problems from ingesting marijuana and this has largely gone unspoken in recent years.

You should also limit your consumption of caffeine and alcohol. Many times people who have Panic Disorder are simply over consuming caffeine.

Anxiety can also be a result of post-acute alcohol withdrawal. It may take years of abstinence for this to dissipate for those who are sensitive to this. Some people can drink alcohol for years and never develop this problem. Other people can actually have psychotic episodes during a severe hangover.

[Need]

Did you try the system yet? So much crap advice posted here from well intended people. Like I said, try a proven method millions have used successfully that's gold-standard easy to use self help and the results last forever here: http://www.howtoovercomepanic.com it will knock out your anxiety and depression fast making your life better fast.

[Tenerife]

(12-25-2013 06:31 AM)Need Wrote:  

Did you try the system yet? So much crap advice posted here from well intended people. Like I said, try a proven method millions have used successfully that's gold-standard easy to use self help and the results last forever here: http://www.howtoovercomepanic.com it will knock out your anxiety and depression fast making your life better fast.

There are a million anxiety programs out there with amazing testimonials and large promises. Most of them are mediocre and consist of the same type of advice.

What exactly did you learn from it? What is the content and the active ingredients?

[Bill]

(12-25-2013 09:53 AM)Tenerife Wrote:  

(12-25-2013 06:31 AM)Need Wrote:  

Did you try the system yet? So much crap advice posted here from well intended people. Like I said, try a proven method millions have used successfully that's gold-standard easy to use self help and the results last forever here: http://www.howtoovercomepanic.com it will knock out your anxiety and depression fast making your life better fast.

There are a million anxiety programs out there with amazing testimonials and large promises. Most of them are mediocre and consist of the same type of advice.

What exactly did you learn from it? What is the content and the active ingredients?

Guy is trolling

[Giovonny]

I see a bit of fear-mongering surrounding "magic mushrooms" ( and "ayahuasca")

I must say, I think more people go crazy from NOT doing shrooms than go crazy from doing them

"The Blue Pill" and the modern, western lifestyle is more dangerous to a mans sanity than "mushrooms".

"Mushrooms" are well known for being non-violent.

Beyond Borders story of murder is extremely rare and probably not significant statistically. A very isolated incident.

Again, my personal opinion is that NOT DOING THEM IS A BIGGER THREAT then doing them.

[Tail Gunner]

(12-25-2013 06:02 AM)Tenerife Wrote:  

Anxiety can also be a result of post-acute alcohol withdrawal. It may take years of abstinence for this to dissipate for those who are sensitive to this. Some people can drink alcohol for years and never develop this problem. Other people can actually have psychotic episodes during a severe hangover.

That is really interesting. Do you happen to have a web link to that particular topic?

[pants]

Giovonny: So whats a good start doing mushrooms? Get one of those shroom shake next time i´m in bali?

[Giovonny]

(12-25-2013 04:28 PM)pants Wrote:  

Giovonny: So whats a good start doing mushrooms? Get one of those shroom shake next time i´m in bali?

No.

Not in a touristy environment. Not in an unknown environment. Not for recreational or party purposes.

Only do them with trusted friends while out in nature. The whole ceremony must be planned out. Food, water, shelter, and all other necessities must be pre planned.

I only do them while hiking in National Parks like Yosemite or Yellowstone. I camp out in a tent with close friends. I like to do them on top of a large mountain while looking at a world class view.

My friends know that this is not for fun but for therapeutic purposes.

Take it serious. Go in with a short list of "issues" that you want to contemplate. Take notes

That is what I recommend.

[MidniteSpecial]

(12-24-2013 03:01 AM)Hades Wrote:  

I have anxiety pretty bad at times.
Try out a keto diet and see if that doesn't fix up pretty much everything.

This.

Single most important thing you can do for your brain is going gluten and sugar free while going on a life long high healthy fat diet.

Check out this doctor he is an expert on the subject. http://www.drperlmutter.com/

Gluten is messing up the country bad.

He also has a book called 'grain brain'. Very good and informative read.
http://www.amazon.com/Grain-Brain-Surpri...031623480X

[WilliamShatnersEgo]

Psilocybin once every few months and MDMA once a month will set your head straight.

[Cr33pin]

Man I had panic attacks bad for a few years. Went to the ER 8 or 9 times cause I was for sure I was dying. They started when I took some bad ""Molly" it was not MDMA.... MDMA can be one of the greatest feelings in the world. My dads side of the family has a history of panic attacks, the bad trip brought the first one on then many followed. I wouldn't wanna leave the house cause I was afraid I would freak out. It's a pretty shitty thing to have to go through. Eventually I just got tired of having them and having them effect my life in such a shitty manner. So I just went on about living my life and when ever I felt panicky I just said here we go again.. Oh well if I am dying then I am gonna die, no since in worrying about it. Then over time they got fewer and farther in between. Also I put myself in uncomfortable situations, just to come face to face with thins to see that nothing bad was gonna happen and my heart was not gonna explode. I thought for sure when I hoped on a plane to Asia by myself not knowing any one out there I would be a prime candidate for freaking out.... never did tho. A few hang overs had me on the edge but never fully went into a panic.
Now the only time I feel anxiety is when I have a bad hang over or smoke weed... they are getting less and less to tho. I know its brought up all the time on here like its the cure all end all problem solver but you wanna wanna get your Testosterone checked to. It effects your hormones with effects depression and anxiety. Since I got on Testosterone injections I haven't really had anxiety when hung over or smoking pot really.

Lots of good advice on this thread about cleaning up your life in general. Clean diet,working out, meditating, everything you do to make your life better like this will not only help in getting rid of anxiety but also help in you being the best healthiest happiest person you can be.

[Beyond Borders]

(12-24-2013 09:24 PM)Beyond Borders Wrote:  

Of course, that's very extreme and not rare - not fear-mongering here.

Whooops! I meant to say that type of story IS rare, obviously!

LOL

[jtbabycarrots]

(12-23-2013 03:07 PM)pants Wrote:  

I have had anxiety for years now. For some time periods more than others.

There is really nothing in my life to worry about either, that´s the worst part.
I´m 6,4, earn 100k more in a year, good friends, good family, live in a part of the world with low crime and I know I´ll be taken good care of no matter what happens to me, apart from anxiety I have good health also.

Even though most things in my life are great I still feel a lot of if from time to time. Close my eyes in quiet room and there is a lot of unrest in my body.

Things I´ve tried with some success is therapy, group therapy, meditation, medication, but I´m still not all the way where I want to be.

Things that work, but only for a short while are working out and getting a good night of sleep.

So I turn to rooshvforum, anyone have some good tips to share about anxiety?

I beat it. Stress and anxiety are mental constructs. If you understand how to create a mental construct you can understand how to beat it.

In your case you already have all the answers. You just don't trust that you have all the answers.

In your post you start in reality and quickly decent into unreality.

You know you are a good guy that has a lot to offer society in general and women in particular. But you quickly turn away from this knowledge and give away your integrity by expressing joy that these girls that hurt you are now suffering. By doing this you are essentially relinquishing your power over yourself and giving it away. You are turning from reality toward an ego created fantasy.

Are you with me at this point?

If you are, here is what I recommend (on top of all of the other great advice concerning diet and exercise);

Look at each source of conflict that is going on in your head right now and write them out - like a list of things you are conflicted about.

Start with one conflict you are having with another person - your ex (let's call her Anne). So the conflict that you had with Anne might have happened years ago, but you are still experiencing it because that's how our brains and trauma work.

So write down on a piece of paper (away from the computer) your side of the story. Get as detailed as you feel is sufficient.

Then write down her side of the story - from HER perspective. This will be very hard for you to do as it will require that you treat her with an incredible amount of compassion. She has hurt you deeply and is probably the source of your anxiety... Now is the time to be brave bro.

Write down her side of the story from a place of Love, Kindness and compassion. It's very easy to discredit her perspective. If you do, you will not grow from this exercise.

Lastly, write out what happened from a 3rd party perspective.

Do this exercise with every conflict in your life. Through the process of doing this you will regain ownership of yourself from your ego.

Let me know how it goes and whether you have any questions.

[Pewpewpaw]

All fears are related to uncertainty. When you are afraid of something, you either do not know what will happen next or you believe you do know what will happen but do not know how to handle it. The uncertainty causes anxiety within you to build, and you may even become paralyzed or panic. Fears are actually a good thing; they keep us out of harm’s way by warning us so we have the chance to prepare or run away from the unknown — from what could be dangerous — which is why our socialization instills many fears in us; we are not born with any fears. For instance, we are taught to fear strangers and to fear failure through stories of the horrible experiences of others, without being introduced to the differences in each situation because we are unable to assess such situations when we are young. This has helped humankind survive for a long time, but occasionally it hurts us as individuals. It is no longer of any help to us when what we are afraid of is not dangerous at all.

Taken from Anton, W. (2013-10-16). The Manual: What Women Want and How to Give It to Them (p. 108). . Kindle Edition.

Definitely worth a read, it has changed my outlook a lot.

While many you have suggested useful ways for overcoming anxiety, it is really down to the person to find their own solution. What works for you might not work for me and vice versa. It is worth noting that I've seen anxiety ridden individuals take magic mushrooms and completely lose their minds. It isn't for everyone and there are risks involved.

A combination of exercise and literature works for me.

[clever alias]

trying to figure this oyt too. became really neurotic in the last 18 months. but it does run in the family, brother has ocd

[Tail Gunner]

(12-23-2013 03:27 PM)K Galt Wrote:  

THE first place anyone who suffers from depression or anxiety needs to look at, is their diet. More specifically the balance of Omega fatty acids.

In most cases, you need to reduce your intake of Omega 6 fatty acids and increase your intake of Omega 3 fatty acids.

Avoid eating commercially fried foods, don't cook with "vegetable" oil (aka soybean, canola, safflower, cottonseed oil), and try and increase your intake of seafood. Small, oily fish are also full of Omega 3 fatty acids - sardines, anchovies etc. Wild Salmon is also a great source (but make sure it's wild caught, as farmed Salmon are fed soy feed, which is a large source of Omega 6 fatty acids).

You can also try and start taking fish oil supplements.

You can also try cutting out wheat gluten from your diet...as wheat flours effects on overall health has been implicated in a number of diseases and conditions. When going gluten free though, it can take up to a month or so before you feel any benefits from cutting it out of your diet.

This post was spot on. I am currently reading "The Brain Diet," by Alan Logan, which another forum member recommended. The author devotes a chapter to fats and Omega-3 intake.

One study showed that taking three grams of fish oil per day led to a progressive decline in anxiety symptoms. That decline even lasted three months after participants stopped taking Omega-3 supplementation.

Another study that involved fish oil supplementation in a UK prison for young offenders resulted in a thirty-seven percent reduction in violent acts.

Lack of Omega-3 is related to learning disorders, lack of impulse control and behavior extremes, anxiety, depression, and dementia.

Aside from taking two or three fish oil capsules (usually one gram per capsule), you can also eat small non-predator fish (e.g., sardines), wild salmon, free range eggs, or dark leafy greens with flax oil or walnut oil. You want to avoid large predator fish, farm-raised salmon, and regular eggs.

[lowbudgetballer]

It will be there. Follow the 5-second rule and use it to your advantage, like a martial artist with an adrenaline dump.

lowbudgetballer