[direct2Leo]

My mentor married a girl 10 yrs younger... went to court, signed the paper and THEN bought her a ring. His thought was, the money you spend on marriage can be better spent on buying a new house or for kids education...
It was few years ago... and I thought that's how you should do things...

[Mercenary]

This guy was lucky. Saved at the last second.

[Atheistani]

This is completely fucked up. Even worse some UK asians (my bro in law, brother too I think) actually do the following.

Marriage in the South Asian community is quite serious and family oriented, so not conducive to the typical "on your knees soldier" proposal bullshit. But not to be outdone by their non-desi counterparts, these guys have gone up a level.

So these guys figure out they wanna get married. Either they were 'introduced' by matrimonial community networks or met some other way. Next the parents are notified at which point they take over. Relatives of both familes would be notified and everyone would be round to congratulate you. Familiea get to know each other and make plans for the wedding in a years time. A few months later, my sister and future BIL go out for.....

THE PROPOSAL

Thats right boys...6 months after agreeing to get married, and even after getting engaged, they PLAN a fucking proposal. Go to a nice dinner, BIL gets on a knee, tells my sister how he loves her so, how she has changed his life and if she would marry him. Well, what the fuck does he think has been going on the last 6 months.

I find out about this as my sister casually mentions to my other sister at home "we had our PROPOSAL today." I was like "Whaaat? But you guys had an arranged marriage"

But it seems to all the rage now with blue pill south asian englanders. My brother be like "Yo, you wanna come out for dinner with us, Im gonna propose tonight". Im all "Yo, you already engaged bro".

At my cousins engagement he's getting ready to put the ring on her finger as about 10 girls in the back start shouting "ON ONE KNEE, ON ONE KNEE" and I thought if that were me those girls are getting thrown out that very moment, infront of a hundred guests. No one asks the King to get on one knee, certainly not on his engagement party.

[Easy_C]

The gesture? Yeah doesn't mean much. I did because I'm a "tradition" kind of guy. Hell I even chose a degree program based in part on it being a very tradition filled program.

Difference was that I did NOT make it a big deal. It was only me, her, and an immediate family member to take pictures....and I asked because we had already discussed our intent and knew what we expected in our future marriage.


As I've said many times before the reason a romantic gesture gets my girl weak in the knees and other dude's girls dry is intent. I do it because I KNOW she's into me(and I'm rewarding that), they do it because they WANT her to be into them.

Pavlovian training works. Reward food behavior, not bad.

[General Stalin]

(05-01-2016 08:56 PM)Mercenary Wrote:  

snip

Seeing men get turned down at proposals always makes me cringe. Not in a "what an embarrassing moment for that sucker" kind of way, but a mournful sympathy kind of way. That man was set to lay it all on the line for a girl, and it wasn't enough. It's the absolute zenith of rejection. It's only compounded when its a spectacle.

As for OP; I disagree. Nothing wrong with the Western tradition of taking a knee. It's classic, romantic, and symbolic. We talk a lot about how a woman's natural imperative is to lock down a suitable man who can provide and make a family with her. The tradition of proposal isn't "begging" but rather a symbol that the wild untamed man is ready to become tame and commit his life to a woman. The act of getting on one knee (genuflection) is a gesture of respect, not submission.

[Tim in real life]

Thanks, MrLemon. You made us realize that even the basics such as body language still applies in something what's traditionally lifelong like marriage.

That is all.

[Mage]

My opinion is that marriage is sacred for the purpose of raising children. There is no other reason to get married other then to raise children.

Even in older religious older times it was even acceptable to divorce if your partner was infertile, because a fruitless union is useless.

The stupidest thing that happened was that marriage became associated with "love" (read lust) and people started to get married for love even without plans to raise children.

So in my opinion a man should only marry if:

1)He wants children with this current woman, he is convinced she would be a good wife and a good mother. In this case he should not offer marriage but should offer her to conceive a child together. The woman should feel honored, because that is the greatest honor a woman can receive from a man - to be asked to be mother for his children. Then it is the ball in woman's court to ask is marriage is included in this deal and the man should answer yes because he wants his children to know that his parents have sworn to be faithful to each other and feel the stability of his parents love.

2)His woman already is carrying his child and he wants to raise that child believing she would make a decent mother.

In both cases:

No kneeling - a woman must feel honored for being chosen as mother of man's children and not feel as being a special snowflake for merely having a vagina.

No engagement ring - the pregnancy is your sign of engagement. A ring should feel as something totally insignificant compared to a living baby to a loving woman. You could buy an engagement ring if your woman was virgin before you, has never had other men, but it is not really necessary.

A simple, cheap and not flashy ceremony - spare that money for your your family house, your family car, your family business and other practical needs. A practical woman who wants to spend a lifetime with you will appreciate investing money in long term projects rather then blowing a large sum in one day. If a woman insists on expensive wedding that means she is more interested in the short term attention whoring rather then lifelong dedication and it should be a major red flag.

The simpler the wedding the stronger the marriage.

A marriage where the partners don't want children yet or at all is stupid. Only marry if you want children ASAP.

[zombiejimmorrison]

^^
Right on point. There are a million different things to do that celebrate a marriage between two people instead of spending so much on a ring and massive wedding reception. Take a nice holiday somewhere, a ship cruise or anything else besides a flashy expensive wedding day, its so boring and predictable. I read that in the old days a man would take a woman to a nice secluded area and propose. They'd both pray and swear their vows before coming back to their family and telling them about the union. No priests involved or flashy bullshit, simple and elegant.

[FireStarter]

(05-03-2016 11:05 PM)General Stalin Wrote:  

Seeing men get turned down at proposals always makes me cringe. Not in a "what an embarrassing moment for that sucker" kind of way, but a mournful sympathy kind of way.

I wouldn't wish that level of pain on anyone and I feel sorry for the men who get rejected so brutally.

But these men, to a large extent bring it on themselves. In a serious relationship there are conversations about where the relationship is going. In the majority of cases the man already knows the woman want to marry him. The men who get publicly rejected are proposing because they know the woman doesn't want to marry them. They're hoping to get a yes either because it's public and it will be hard for her to say no or because they're hoping the proposal will push her into the zone where she likes him as much as he likes her.

This is the male equivalent of the girl who deliberately gets pregnant to keep a guy. Except it's a lot less effective, it's coming from a place of extreme weakness and as we all know women are not attracted to weakness.

Women are not shy about their desire to get married. If she wants to get married she'll drop strong hints. If she's not dropping hints or outright talking about being married then it's not a good idea to propose.

[Mercenary]

(05-03-2016 11:05 PM)General Stalin Wrote:  

Seeing men get turned down at proposals always makes me cringe. Not in a "what an embarrassing moment for that sucker" kind of way, but a mournful sympathy kind of way. That man was set to lay it all on the line for a girl, and it wasn't enough. It's the absolute zenith of rejection. It's only compounded when its a spectacle.

(05-04-2016 08:02 AM)FireStarter Wrote:  

I wouldn't wish that level of pain on anyone and I feel sorry for the men who get rejected so brutally.

You guys need to harden up.

I 'm 100% certain that (in hindsight) these utterly horrible and totally cringe worthy embarrassing failed marriage proposals, were the one of the most important moments of these men's lives in changing themselves for the better. It would be interesting to find out what happened to these guys and how they live life and see things now. I'm pretty sure many of them never made fools of themselves like that again. Perhaps some of them are now forum members or lurkers.

Many of the worst failures of my life are what brought me to Roosh, the red pill, and this forum.


And for your viewing pleasure...here's 3 more totally brutal rejections:

[Khan]

(05-03-2016 11:59 PM)Mage Wrote:  

A marriage where the partners don't want children yet or at all is stupid. Only marry if you want children ASAP.

I wouldn't even call that a marriage at all. More like a glorified roommate agreement.

I agree with Mercenary, all those guys who got publicly rejected by their GFs are probably better off now. That pain of rejection might be just enough to tip their lives off in a better direction, one that is perhaps even red-pill.

[cascadecombo]

Any guy who gets rejected on a proposal obviously wasn't on the same page and was probably proposing as a last ditch effort to keep the girl.

[General Stalin]

Realistically, those guys who got turned down are probably still beta chumps. Most men don't have red pill awakenings regardless of how much shit gets dumped on them by females or their own doing.

I won't argue they are certainly better for it, as obviously they were about to make a grave mistake and it got corrected. They surely will have learned something from the incident, but I'm sure none of those men became weight lifting pussy smashing expats or anything. Those types of guys live their lives in scarcity and more than likely will go sexless and single until they girlfriend up with the next chick their friends' girlfriend introduces them to.

To elaborate more on OP; I think guys who make a big spectacle out of proposals are beta. Making it a big deal in a public place, getting a mariachi band, cameras, all this other bullshit - lame. I also think it puts a lot of undue pressure on the woman to say "yes" and as someone else mentioned in this thread, this is likely a beta tactic to guilt a wavering girl into accepting.

Proposing to a girl at the mall is beta. Why are so many of these videos in a mall?

[Valentine]

I laugh when I see rejections at over the top public proposals.

They're trying to use social pressure to get these girls to marry them.

They deserve it.

[samsamsam]

So divorce?