[wolf]

(11-29-2010 03:32 AM)oldnemesis Wrote:  

(11-28-2010 09:01 PM)wolf Wrote:  

I pretty much agree with most of your points. The problem is we can't go back, for various reasons( financial instability, crime, and etc.). You mentioned "to move again" I would like to hear more on that. What options are there?

The whole world is yours. However in my opinion before moving on it would be unwise to ignore the opportunities America provides. While here I would concentrate on the following:

1. Get into LTR. With an expat, of course, don't even consider other chicks. Even Asians - our cultures are very similar, but the lack of language will make it very difficult. LTRs are difficult enough to make them even harder.

Getting into LTR here is valuable because of three reasons. First, if you decide to move, for example, to Brazil, your options would be significantly more limited than here as there are likely less expats from your country. Second, if any of you have any immigration issues, you'll have enough time to have it fixed before moving. Third, it typically takes up to two years of living together to ensure you're compatible, and the earlier you start, the more you'll be able to try if needed.

2. Make money and contribute for your retirement. In America you would probably make more money than anywhere else (I assume you're here legally and do not have "issues" like H1B). By contributing to Social Security you also getting an option to receive retirement when you're old. Good if you don't need it, but if you do, it is a nice safety net. You won't live like a king, but you won't be starving either.

3. Work on your career, or on your business. Make sure your career/business is portable. If you're a software engineer, you can work anywhere in the world. Not so if you're a lawyer or a social worker. This is extremely important, as having a lot of skills and experience would make it significantly easier for you to get a job after move. If you choose the company wisely, you will also visit different countries as part of your work, not spending a cent of your money.

4. Travel. You have time and money. Investigate the countries, visa regime, language, weather, and work opportunities, and decide for yourself.

And, of course, game. I may be condemned for what I'm going to say, but my opinion so far is that you should not learn American-style game at all. Without cultural knowledge and your level of English you're five years below the weakest dude here, and spending five years just to get to his level is a complete waste of time. Do not try to copy other American players, in the best case you will look like you're trying too hard - but typically you'd look like a clown. Play European-style game, when you dress sharp, having fun and not approaching anyone. It is easier, it is more fun and while your overall "score" will be lower, being from Europe you should not be concerned about scoring as much as Americans are.

One thing you may want to do is to talk to girls from different countries, not with intention to bang them, but with intention to learn how the people live there. Tell her you consider moving in next N years, and want to learn more about her country. Once she understands you're genuinely trying to learn that, and not just using it as opener as most American guys would do, you'll very likely to at least get into her social circle, and to her bed as well.

I've been dating but the mistake I've been making is dating American women or Americanized foreigners. I've dated several foreign girls who knew their place but nothing LTR material yet. I have lived in the states for 16 years, so my cultural knowledge is good, I just have a hard time not throwing up in disgust. My English is better than my Russian, I don't even have an accent anymore. I think it would be to my benefit to improve my Russian, two of my friends are contemplating moving back, one already bought a place there.

I wouldn't have to think about scoring if I was scoring all the time, over there girls sleep with you just because, over here I don't know what the hell is going on, to me it's a big clusterfuck.

[exe]

(11-28-2010 08:15 PM)oldnemesis Wrote:  

..You are used to treat women like a commodity because they are commodity in EE.

..You find American chicks amusing, more eager and open in bed comparing to girls from your native country. .. you find out they're much more enthusiastic to try any sexual kinks you have.

If EE girls are a commodity back home and are used to having to compete for men - as stated on this board many times - wouldn't they be typically more eager & enthusiastic to try things to please a man?

[oldnemesis]

(11-29-2010 09:24 AM)wolf Wrote:  

I've been dating but the mistake I've been making is dating American women or Americanized foreigners. I've dated several foreign girls who knew their place but nothing LTR material yet. I have lived in the states for 16 years, so my cultural knowledge is good, I just have a hard time not throwing up in disgust. My English is better than my Russian, I don't even have an accent anymore. I think it would be to my benefit to improve my Russian, two of my friends are contemplating moving back, one already bought a place there.

Pretty much every Russian I know made that mistake, considering an American chick for an LTR. They tend to believe that after you lived in the country for a lot of time, they will become part of its culture. They will not; in my opinion the cut-off point is high school, meaning if you end up being in America after the high school, you won't be able to assimilate into the culture. You can only accept it.

[oldnemesis]

(11-29-2010 11:52 AM)exe Wrote:  

If EE girls are a commodity back home and are used to having to compete for men - as stated on this board many times - wouldn't they be typically more eager & enthusiastic to try things to please a man?

Because the culture teaches them to behave shy, and to pay extra attention to not present herself as "slut". Otherwise she won't be considered a marriage material.

For example, let's assume a guy just met an EE girl on a party, and got back in his place with her. Things progress well, and now he asks her to blow him. Here's how the culture clash in action:

A guy, pointing on his dick: suck it?

EE girl: No, I don't do that
What she is really saying is that "only cock-hungry sluts agree in such scenario", and she is concerned not to look like one, i.e. save face.

Western guy reply: Well, it's ok, no problems
He was taught to "respect women" and "if she says no, she meant it", would reply with something like "no problem". This makes the girl think on two things. First, he probably didn't really want it, and just wanted to test what kind of slut I am. Second, he didn't even try to push - those Western guys are really weak on women, which means he'd be an easy target, let's see what else I can get out of him.

European guy reply: Now you do.
He knows that even she has no problem doing so, she is concerned with possible loss of face. By taking the responsibility he confirmed he is an alpha male, but at the same time he saved her face by giving her a mental excuse "I was forced to do that, not my fault".

This is just one example, and you'll have tons of them if you go for LTR.

[wolf]

(11-29-2010 07:28 PM)oldnemesis Wrote:  

(11-29-2010 11:52 AM)exe Wrote:  

If EE girls are a commodity back home and are used to having to compete for men - as stated on this board many times - wouldn't they be typically more eager & enthusiastic to try things to please a man?

Because the culture teaches them to behave shy, and to pay extra attention to not present herself as "slut". Otherwise she won't be considered a marriage material.

For example, let's assume a guy just met an EE girl on a party, and got back in his place with her. Things progress well, and now he asks her to blow him. Here's how the culture clash in action:

A guy, pointing on his dick: suck it?

EE girl: No, I don't do that
What she is really saying is that "only cock-hungry sluts agree in such scenario", and she is concerned not to look like one, i.e. save face.

Western guy reply: Well, it's ok, no problems
He was taught to "respect women" and "if she says no, she meant it", would reply with something like "no problem". This makes the girl think on two things. First, he probably didn't really want it, and just wanted to test what kind of slut I am. Second, he didn't even try to push - those Western guys are really weak on women, which means he'd be an easy target, let's see what else I can get out of him.

European guy reply: Now you do.
He knows that even she has no problem doing so, she is concerned with possible loss of face. By taking the responsibility he confirmed he is an alpha male, but at the same time he saved her face by giving her a mental excuse "I was forced to do that, not my fault".

This is just one example, and you'll have tons of them if you go for LTR.

That's very true. Every time I give an order there is this 'who the fuck are you to tell me anything' look and a lot of lip that I get with American women. With a foreign girl she knows her place, she could still not do what I say but I don't get lip from them.

[subutai]

Fuck. I think I just got dissed by this Western European chick.

I'm not sure whether to swallow my pride and persist until total burn out or cut my losses.

What a jarring re-entry back into US dating life.

But in a sociological, semi-academic way, I'm almost fascinated by how the tables of turned.

In EE, I was an exotic foreigner. Wherever I went, I would inevitably have women take one look at me and give me the long, drawn-out stare that I KNEW meant sex was on offer if I wanted it. My ace card was also that I was making income that fell in the top 1% of the local income bracket AND had a very developed social network. In the first few months, I was delirious. After a few years, it still felt good but I started taking it for granted. I was supremely confident, but also downright lazy because I ALWAYS had multiple women after ME, and had no qualms about dumping 8s and 9s because equivalent chicks were always available night and day. I got "bored" of sex. I only wanted GREAT sex with girls who had vaginas that fit my cock in the perfect way. If a hot chick was too loose or liked sex in a way I didn't like, I dumped her. If a hot chick was boring, I dumped her. If a hot chick smoked, I dumped her. Sure, I couldn't get 9s and 10s with a snap of my finger, but I could get 7s into my bed WITHOUT FAIL given a bit of time and effort.

Observing this Western European girl (who I think just dissed me) over the last few weeks, was like watching a mirror image...of MYSELF! She is supremely confident, as she has guys CONSTANTLY coming up to her, and those who don't, are giving her long, desperate drawn-out looks. She's playing the field, not committing to any one guy and makes no effort to flirt with guys because there's a line out of the door of guys wanting to get a conversation in with her. In short, she knows she has an infinite number of options, and although she pretends to "ignore" all the attention, she's actually LOVING IT and enjoying her time immensely.

This is of course all common sense: law of scarcity and supply and demand.

But having EXPERIENCED IT and then OBSERVING how the tables have COMPLETELY TURNED is making me go through a Twilight Zone experience right now. I have this bad feeling I'm going to be drinking Chivas alone in my dark room if this keeps up.

[exe]

(11-29-2010 07:28 PM)oldnemesis Wrote:  

European guy reply: Now you do.

Nice one! I do have to say this can also be achieved with US chicks - I think the term is 'plowing' or 'powering thru' - and sometimes coming up with some nonsensical reason also works. The 'token resistance' is exactly what it is - token.

[Shaman]

(11-29-2010 11:48 PM)subutai Wrote:  

In EE, I was an exotic foreigner. Wherever I went, I would inevitably have women take one look at me and give me the long, drawn-out stare that I KNEW meant sex was on offer if I wanted it. My ace card was also that I was making income that fell in the top 1% of the local income bracket AND had a very developed social network. In the first few months, I was delirious. After a few years, it still felt good but I started taking it for granted. I was supremely confident, but also downright lazy because I ALWAYS had multiple women after ME, and had no qualms about dumping 8s and 9s because equivalent chicks were always available night and day. I got "bored" of sex. I only wanted GREAT sex with girls who had vaginas that fit my cock in the perfect way. If a hot chick was too loose or liked sex in a way I didn't like, I dumped her. If a hot chick was boring, I dumped her. If a hot chick smoked, I dumped her. Sure, I couldn't get 9s and 10s with a snap of my finger, but I could get 7s into my bed WITHOUT FAIL given a bit of time and effort.

Can I ask what country you're from and what you look like (ethnicity)? I hear latino guys do really well in EE so I'm curious.

[MiXX]

As I read these rules, I can say with confidence that it impact latinas coming form any country in Latin America to the USA the exact same way as it does to European girls.

[Urban Renaissance Man]

(11-28-2010 09:49 AM)playa_with_a_passport Wrote:  

(11-27-2010 04:53 AM)subutai Wrote:  

Which again confirms my theory that American guys are STARVED for any kind of symmetrical beauty in white women.

Your are giving them too much credit, American guys no longer have any standards. Even Euro girls who are on the opposite end of the beauty spectrum the 0's to 4's do very well in the US specially in New York. There's used to be a joke that a Black guy would fuck a refrigerator as long as it was White, this is no longer true everybody out there is fucking fat chicks. What Euro girls have going for them is that they have zero attitude and none of the entitlement nonsense that afflicts their American Sisters.Thus, Nowadays European fat chicks have literally the pick of the litter. I have seen more times than I care to count huge blonde hippopotamuses from Germany and points East with very good looking White/Asian/Latino/ Black dudes.

Really good post! American men are sort of doing it to ourselves. Of course that's already been said here. I had a rather interesting conversation with a very attractive white American lady here in the Bay. I told her that I was not the steroetypical thug black guy and that my lack of ghettoness actually has worked against me in picking up women. This particular girl actually recommended that I start daying European women here in the Bay! (I'm new to the area, but I'm assuming the Frisco area has a large pupolationof European expats.) I was somewhat floored because other than on this board, I've never heard anyone make that suggestion. When I asked her why, she stated that European women are less tolerant of the 'bad boy' and more into gentlemen. I found this rather profound coming from a non-European woman. Now, I don't knowif anything she ssaid was true, as I've never dated a European women, but it seems to coincide with things I've read on this board.

[Urban Renaissance Man]

(11-29-2010 01:05 AM)Jim Kirk Wrote:  

"Which again confirms my theory that American guys are STARVED for any kind of symmetrical beauty in white women"

Watching my wife get pregnant an gain (and then loose) weight over 3 pregnancies provides a glimpse into how whacked American fatties are and how much damn fat is involved. My 5' 2" wife at 9 months pregnant topped out at about 135 pounds going into Labor and Delivery. She started at about 117 pounds. She has a Kim Kardashian type frame - she will never be a marathon runner put it that way. At 135 pounds - the circumferance of her waist and pregnancy belly was less than parhaps 60% of females under the age of 50 on Long Island.

If you figure a lean 'fit' weight for Mrs. Kirk would be 105 pounds - she was 15 pounds overweight when she got pregnant and still weighed under 120 pounds. When you see a typicall fatty - look at the circumferane of the waist and the size of the individual buttcheeck. If her buttcheeck is the same size or larger than the ass of a 200 pound male - that woman is going to be 170 pounds or so. In other words she is going to be AT LEAST 65 pounds overweight. Even if she worked out like a nut and dieted - that kind of weight takes over a year to get off. At that weight - all her hormonal secretions and glands are going to be out of whack. How would she ever properly wash her ass? No honey - those birth control pills you take because you want to have clear skin? - They might be helping you put weight on. That with 8 donuts a day and Ruby Tuesdays 3 nights a week might have something to do with it.

All these Irish barmaids and bartenders all over New York - they must have a weight requirement that they have to hit 150 pounds. They squeeze their asses into black tight pants - the uniform of the bar - so I have to see this. "Can I take your order sir?"

Jim Kirk true life story this morning - had the kids out at the indoor pool this time as opposed to the lake. A lifeguard was doing a lesson. She was in a red speedo with racerback. She weighed 200 pounds. I swear - they should mark these chicks with a displacement number as the pool water is going to spill over the lip of the pool. I'm 205 pounds and 35 - She was 19 - and was 200 pounds - teaching all the young'ens how to swim. . .

It would be interesting to see what proporation of women would weight between certain ranges 90 pounds to 110 pounds - 110 pounds to 130 pounds, and so and so forth? I bet the number hitting 200 pounds would be very large.

Actually, the lacklusterness of women doesn't just stop at weight. Even the girls that aren't over weight but just have 5 and 6 level faces are still given an inordinate amount of attention. Women who some successful men shouldn't even be looking at, are getting asked out on dates by these guys. It messes up the curve. The 4 to 5 level guy she's supposed to be with is sort of left out in the cold because a level 7 to 9 guy is trying to date her! Being over weight isn'tthe only problem that plagues American women. The bad attitude is even more insidious than the weight factor. Even when you're successful in landing a 6-7 American girl, the levels of disrespect are still there! Flirsting with other guys, sassy talk, and a general attitude of "I can take you or leave you" that is prevalent with American relationships. They always seem to be looking for the next best thing, even when they already have something decent at home, who might even be helping her take care of her illegitimate child/children! At the same time, providing nothing in the way of pleasant personality or caregiving that would make them qualify to have anything better, other than the fact that they're a halfway decent looking American girl! The only way to combat this here at home is to (1) develop an attitude that at the FIRST sign of disrespect, lack of emotional support or sex games, you'll kick her to the curb at once! and (2) American men have got to stop coming on extra strong to anything under an 8!!

[Rocco81]

I think you are partially right Nemesis, but I do not know about the returning back to the community thing. Not saying it doesn't happen, just that I have seen many EE girls who I know personally who stayed outside of that social ex pat group as far as dating atleast, before, during and after their initial run at bieng "all American" like you are describing. They didnt always go back to American guys, but they didn't always go back to their own culture either.

[oldnemesis]

(11-29-2010 07:57 PM)wolf Wrote:  

That's very true. Every time I give an order there is this 'who the fuck are you to tell me anything' look and a lot of lip that I get with American women.

You can try it with "too bad you're so shallow to hang out with real men; seems like you only dealt with some pussies who'd be happy to be with anyone possessing a vagina". Wonder how it would work on an American chick. I am still amazed with how much shit you can give them and they'll still swallow it.

(I'd never try something like this on EE chick though; she'd lose face).

[oldnemesis]

(11-30-2010 04:57 PM)Rocco81 Wrote:  

They didnt always go back to American guys, but they didn't always go back to their own culture either.

Not everyone is moving at the same pace. Some people take it longer. But finally she will be there.

This of course does not mean she'll be fucking Russian guys only. This means:

- When she is looking for LTR she'll only really consider guys with the same culture background. This also means she'd be a more frequent guest on community events and social gatherings, and will spend significantly less time with her American friends.

- She'll be much harder target for American guys. She knows now that all the attention she is getting from them is basically what everyone with vagina is getting, no matter how ugly or lame. And she (correctly) interprets this attention as "I am horny and want to stick my dick inside you". American chicks understand that too, but they are fine with that; they actually enjoy it. EE chicks are not.

- She'll skip on bars, clubs and other American typical dating markets, making it even harder to reach her. And when she goes there, she goes with her EE friends who'll make it comfortable to an outsider trying to approach them. Here is a very typical situation which I've seen quite a lot of times:

(A bunch of EE guys, gals or mixed sitting in a bar drinking and chatting, obviously in their native language):
(A dude comes in): Hey guys!/What language are you speaking?/Where are you from?/Let me guess, you're from whatever?
(Someone close to this dude, to the company, in our language): Anyone knows this guy?
(Someone from the company): Not me.
(We continue our discussion, not even giving dude a second look)

Is it familiar? In EE culture this is NOT considered rude! It is a perfectly acceptable way to ignore uninvited strangers. The rationale is that if you try to ask what he wants or engage in any kind of discussion, he'd try to weasel into the company where it would not be easy to get him out. At the same time, nobody said anything rude to him, it is more like passers-by, so he did not lose face.

The only exception is when a dude approaching says something like "guys, you're in America, why don't you use English?". In this case he will likely get a reply, which would be "fuck you" (in English), and the discussion will continue. I've never seen it, but heard about it quite a few times.

[subutai]

I wouldn't say this applies to every Eastern European nation however, esp. ones that are smaller in number. You have to keep in mind that the mentality of a Russian/Ukrainian is far far different, than e.g. an Estonian. In fact, Estonians have a lingering resentment against all things Russian and go out of their way to embrace the West and avoid any kind of association with Russia/Slavic countries.

Additionally, Western European girls, especially Scandinavian ones (Sweden, Norway, etc) that have been here long-term have ALL hooked up and married American men (of all colors) that I personally know of.

But if you take the larger, Slavic nations, e.g. Poland, Ukraine, Russia, etc...then all of Oldnemisis' observations seem spot on.

[Rocco81]

I don't know about Russian girls specifically, but I thought we were talking about Eastern Europeans in geneneral. I do know some Russians, here in DC but for me my familiarity is more with Slovak, Polish and Czech girls. Of coures all of the EE cultures are more similar to each other than they are to US culture, but within these groups you can definitely notice the different cultures. Like Subatai mentioned I know some EE folks that do go out of their way to remind you they aren't Russian, not sure why.

[oldnemesis]

(11-30-2010 08:44 PM)subutai Wrote:  

I wouldn't say this applies to every Eastern European nation however, esp. ones that are smaller in number. You have to keep in mind that the mentality of a Russian/Ukrainian is far far different, than e.g. an Estonian.

Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania are definitely not Eastern European. They're Baltic, so I'd group them together with Finland, Sweden and Norway.

Quote:

But if you take the larger, Slavic nations, e.g. Poland, Ukraine, Russia, etc...then all of Oldnemisis' observations seem spot on.

I wonder if my observations are also valid for such Western nations as France, Italy, Spain, Portugal, Greece?

[Rocco81]

One think I've noticed is specifically with the younger Russian girls, is the frequency I see them with Middle Easter men. I tend to see them doing to the whole club thing and its not rare I see them with an old Persian or Lebenese guy (easily 15-20 older) who has money.

Of course this can happen with women of any background, but I tend to see more Russian girls doing this, atleast in my area.

[wolf]

(12-01-2010 11:24 AM)Rocco81 Wrote:  

One think I've noticed is specifically with the younger Russian girls, is the frequency I see them with Middle Easter men. I tend to see them doing to the whole club thing and its not rare I see them with an old Persian or Lebenese guy (easily 15-20 older) who has money.

Of course this can happen with women of any background, but I tend to see more Russian girls doing this, atleast in my area.

+1

[subutai]

(12-01-2010 05:28 AM)oldnemesis Wrote:  

(11-30-2010 08:44 PM)subutai Wrote:  

I wouldn't say this applies to every Eastern European nation however, esp. ones that are smaller in number. You have to keep in mind that the mentality of a Russian/Ukrainian is far far different, than e.g. an Estonian.

Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania are definitely not Eastern European. They're Baltic, so I'd group them together with Finland, Sweden and Norway.

Quote:

But if you take the larger, Slavic nations, e.g. Poland, Ukraine, Russia, etc...then all of Oldnemisis' observations seem spot on.

I wonder if my observations are also valid for such Western nations as France, Italy, Spain, Portugal, Greece?

Definitely not for the Western European countries, mostly because the girls who are in the US in the first place came because they had a preference for the US, or at least, an open-mindedness towards it.

I should probably also start using the term "Former Soviet Republics" instead of Eastern Europe to be more accurate. But for certain, the Baltic countries also have a mentality of their own and are far more pro-Western in a variety of ways (including fucking, relationships, even marriage) and downright anti-Russian as well if you come down to it.

I'm also no expert on Russians / Ukrainians, but I know that the "Russian Soul" is something that writers have even tried to describe in literary terms and failed at.

All I know is that Russian / Ukrainian mentalities, and American mentalities, seem sufficiently different that the chances of such relationships working out are very, very slim.

Strangely, Russian women seem to form easy relationships with Arab and Italian men, esp. with Arabs/Italians who are loud, brash, and throw money around. The whole Dolce Gabana champaigne party scene seems to really do it for a lot of the Russian girls from what I can see.

[oldnemesis]

(12-01-2010 11:19 PM)subutai Wrote:  

Definitely not for the Western European countries, mostly because the girls who are in the US in the first place came because they had a preference for the US, or at least, an open-mindedness towards it.

Well, nobody nowadays is brought up into US by ships as it happened in past. We all come because we have open-mindedness about the country. Note that even from Western Europe they still need a visa to stay in US over three months, or to work here - and work visa requirements are the same for a person from Germany and a person from India.
There is, however, significant difference between living in the country, and assimilating with the culture. While Western Europe culture is closer to US than EE, they seem to be significant enough to prevent LTRs, and the language barrier is still there.

Quote:

I should probably also start using the term "Former Soviet Republics" instead of Eastern Europe to be more accurate.

This would exclude Poland, Slovenia, Chezh, Romania, Bulgaria, Hungary - which belong to EE, but weren't FSRs.

Quote:

But for certain, the Baltic countries also have a mentality of their own and are far more pro-Western in a variety of ways (including fucking, relationships, even marriage) and downright anti-Russian as well if you come down to it.

Actually I didn't have any obstacles in Lithuania. The girls there were not my type (blondes suck), but I managed to score even though I didn't pursue it. And we spoke Russian. My impression was that as soon as you go down from talking to "population" to talking to a specific person, there is nothing anti-Russian there.

Quote:

Strangely, Russian women seem to form easy relationships with Arab and Italian men, esp. with Arabs/Italians who are loud, brash, and throw money around. The whole Dolce Gabana champaigne party scene seems to really do it for a lot of the Russian girls from what I can see.

A slight correction: Russian women seem to form easy relationships with rich Arab and Italian men. Not so much with poor ones. They'd do well with rich American men as well. A relationship based on money is typically very stable and satisfying for both parties - as long as money is here, and both parties understand the terms and follow them.

[subutai]

Well, I don't know what the overall stats are, but I know quite a few Western European women (Swedish, French, German, etc) who are with American guys, have kids, been together 20+ years, etc. Just personal observations so who knows about the wider trends are but these relationships don't seem any harder or easier than marriages in general these days, to my eyes.

I'm not sure about Lithuania, but I can say for sure that Estonian women stay away from Russian men as a general rule. Partly due to parental pressure (many whom "hate" Russians), but probably also because Russian men from Estonia are clearly disenfranchised and occupy the bottom-end of the socioeconomic pyramid. Women date up, not down. Tallinn, the capital of Estonia, is 45% Russian. But I can't even remember running into one Estonian girl dating a Russian guy -- whereas I ran into Russian girls dating Turkish, American, English, Swedish, German, French, Spanish, Japanese, Chinese, Morrocan, and pretty much every other nationality under the sun. That's pretty telling right there. On the other hand, I could see how an English-speaking well-off Russian guy NOT from Estonia would do fine...although I've never met such a guy myself. The ones I'd run into were usually on vacation from St. Petersburg and had minimal "game" -- mostly drunk on vodka and stumbling around.

Agree with you on the rich Arab/Italian thing.

[Princeton]

(11-29-2010 07:28 PM)oldnemesis Wrote:  

(11-29-2010 11:52 AM)exe Wrote:  

If EE girls are a commodity back home and are used to having to compete for men - as stated on this board many times - wouldn't they be typically more eager & enthusiastic to try things to please a man?

Because the culture teaches them to behave shy, and to pay extra attention to not present herself as "slut". Otherwise she won't be considered a marriage material.

For example, let's assume a guy just met an EE girl on a party, and got back in his place with her. Things progress well, and now he asks her to blow him. Here's how the culture clash in action:

A guy, pointing on his dick: suck it?

EE girl: No, I don't do that
What she is really saying is that "only cock-hungry sluts agree in such scenario", and she is concerned not to look like one, i.e. save face.

Western guy reply: Well, it's ok, no problems
He was taught to "respect women" and "if she says no, she meant it", would reply with something like "no problem". This makes the girl think on two things. First, he probably didn't really want it, and just wanted to test what kind of slut I am. Second, he didn't even try to push - those Western guys are really weak on women, which means he'd be an easy target, let's see what else I can get out of him.

European guy reply: Now you do.
He knows that even she has no problem doing so, she is concerned with possible loss of face. By taking the responsibility he confirmed he is an alpha male, but at the same time he saved her face by giving her a mental excuse "I was forced to do that, not my fault".

This is just one example, and you'll have tons of them if you go for LTR.

Awesome response!

[BSYD3000]

+1 on the whole Euro chick working in west, they are a different creature, an not in the good sense, seems like they only care about setting themselves up to stay here, last 2 I went on dates with where duds no fun, first one I took for drinks waste of money an time last one no waste of money but time gone, unless they are bubbly, fun, cool etc dont bother.

[Travesty]

(11-27-2010 04:53 AM)subutai Wrote:  

Had a long chat with European girls in California. Without exception, they all remarked how much attention they're essentially overloaded with in the US. They literally get bombarded with male attention on a daily basis to the point that they find it annoying.

Keep in mind, these are NOT 9s and 10s. More like 6s and 7s from Europe but of course, 8s and 9s here in the states.

Which again confirms my theory that American guys are STARVED for any kind of symmetrical beauty in white women.

Never seen this thread 5 years old, explains the competition in California perfectly - this was 2010 pre-Tinder and OkCupid wasn't mainstream yet.