[soup]

I've noticed a lot of trannies on OKC lately. Some of them are really good at looking like women in their pictures. Massive trolling.

I have a lot of dyke and "post-gendered" acquaintances, and I'm always drawing the line in the sand that says if a person is not capable of producing sperm (regardless of whether or not the sperm works), he is not a man. If someone cuts off their dick and can not produce eggs like a women, he is not female.

This is the biological definition of male and female. Everything that is masculine and feminine comes from this. An example would be men's strength vs. women's strength. I think men are physically stronger than women because women were more precious because they have fewer eggs, so they couldn't be involved in dangerous physical activities.

But, what happens if in the future, scientists are actually able to give trannies the ability to make babies using their adopted sex?

What will that mean for us?

Or, what if we upload our consciousness into a computer where sex is not part of the equation?

What will happen if there's a future where our ancient physical characteristics lose their immutability?

This stuff may seem like science fiction now, but who knows what's going to happen as technology gets exponentially more powerful.

For right now, Redpill is the most honest assessment of the situation: men are men, and women are women, and trying to cross those boundaries can be seen as crass, stupid, or just attention whoring.

But, in the same way that a guy can go from a Beta with oneitis to an Alpha who is banging fly chicks left and right, maybe people will be able to actually change their. It will be like online avatars where people can "be" whatever they want, but in real life.*

Where will we get our purpose and meaning from? Right now, I see most of my purpose deriving from my needs as a man. What will serve as a source of meaning for future generations?

*and it could be making yourself into a wolfman or whatever.

[Handsome Creepy Eel]

I don't get it.

Red pill is about rationality and fairness, not gender. What does it matter if a tranny can produce eggs or sperm as normal for his/her new gender? I'm still going to despise him if he's a hamsterrific piece of shit, or agree with him if he/she is a cool person with rational opinions.

What am I missing here?

[soup]

(11-23-2013 12:25 PM)Handsome Creepy Eel Wrote:  

I don't get it.

Red pill is about rationality and fairness, not gender. What does it matter if a tranny can produce eggs or sperm as normal for his/her new gender? I'm still going to despise him if he's a hamsterrific piece of shit, or agree with him if he/she is a cool person with rational opinions.

What am I missing here?

All of that irrationality comes from being a woman.

Let's take it even further and say that not only can the scientists give the tranny a way to make a baby, but can also re-wire the mind to think more like the gender it's aiming for.

Most of the trannies already believe that they think more like the opposite sex. There are a lot of people claiming to be bi or gay who are really just attention whores, but then there are people who really don't think like they way we'd expect them to.

Based on your definition of Redpill, would you say that a super butch dyke with higher testosterone and a much more rational, masculine way of thinking is Redpill?

Also don't forget that guys have hamsters too. What else accounts for the beta male who keeps providing for his wife when she's giving off signs that she's straying. The male hamster is going to explain away her strange behavior.

[Flint]

It is tempting to overstate the relative influence of these vegan-pantransgender broads on society at large. Just like homosexuality this whole transgender issue receives disproportional media coverage and if I take a look at the hamster thread it seems they are absolutely overrepresented on datingsites like OKC. I next to never meet these types of people in real life and it's not too difficult to avoid them.

Trannies are a tiny minority and always will be. Even if science finds a way to let them have children via artificially produced sperm, the effects on the overall population will be negligible. Most people will continue to consider them a quirky fringe group.

In society, the evolutionarily generated norms of sexuality will always prevail over the special interests of a few thousand trannies.

Quote:

What will that mean for us?

Nothing. It would have no impact on any real man's life and on his mission to sleep with the women he likes.

[bacon]

(11-23-2013 12:22 PM)soup Wrote:  

I have a lot of dyke and "post-gendered" acquaintances, and I'm always drawing the line in the sand that says if a person is not capable of producing sperm (regardless of whether or not the sperm works), he is not a man.

[gfly]

We are influenced by our acquaintances even if we don't agree with them. There is the case that society condoning homos is an end marker for that society but whatever. Freaks be freaks most people despise them some ignore them and some are conned by the good press they get to think the freaks are brave equality warriors. If they don't provide positive value to your life maybe consider ditching them as friends.

[runsonmagic]

In the future, you'll be able to grow children in artificial wombs.

The ability of men to have children without women, plus a male birth control pill will mean total red pill freedom.

At present, the only reason to marry is children and family, which is something I know I want. Think how easy it'll be to MGTOW when you don't have to worry about accidental pregnancy and you don't need women to have children.

Don't worry about the future. We'll make it right.

[Ensam]

Gender is fucking weird. Our scientific understanding of the edge cases is still pretty limited.

Take this chick:

Very feminine. The thing is she's chromosomally male. That's right, she's an XY. She's genetically as male as any dude on this forum - save for one gene. She has androgen insensitivity syndrome. Her body just doesn't respond to male sex hormones. So even though her endocrine system is telling her body to be male her cells just aren't listening. In fact many fashion models and female athletes have this condition as well. A lot of these women have testiciles where their overies should be and don't have a uterus. It wasn't really until the last 20 or 30 years that the scientific community really got a handle on what was going on.

Would you get upset if you ended up on a date with a woman like her? Hell, I bet a lot of the women with this condition probably don't even know they have it until they try to conceive.

[pheonix500000]

(11-23-2013 01:54 PM)runsonmagic Wrote:  

In the future, you'll be able to grow children in artificial wombs.

The ability of men to have children without women, plus a male birth control pill will mean total red pill freedom.

At present, the only reason to marry is children and family, which is something I know I want. Think how easy it'll be to MGTOW when you don't have to worry about accidental pregnancy and you don't need women to have children.

Don't worry about the future. We'll make it right.

hmmm thats pretty much the first twenty minutes of the superman movie.

[soup]

(11-23-2013 01:54 PM)Ensam Wrote:  

Gender is fucking weird. Our scientific understanding of the edge cases is still pretty limited.

Take this chick:

Very feminine. The thing is she's chromosomally male. That's right, she's an XY. She's genetically as male as any dude on this forum - save for one gene. She has androgen insensitivity syndrome. Her body just doesn't respond to male sex hormones. So even though her endocrine system is telling her body to be male her cells just aren't listening. In fact many fashion models and female athletes have this condition as well. A lot of these women have testiciles where their overies should be and don't have a uterus. It wasn't really until the last 20 or 30 years that the scientific community really got a handle on what was going on.

Would you get upset if you ended up on a date with a woman like her? Hell, I bet a lot of the women with this condition probably don't even know they have it until they try to conceive.

Are you saying that chick has balls where her uterus is supposed to be? Does she have a cock or a pussy?

[Ensam]

(11-23-2013 02:08 PM)soup Wrote:  

Are you saying that chick has balls where her uterus is supposed to be? Does she have a cock or a pussy?

Depending on the specifics of her condition (which she wasn't open about) she'd have testicles where her ovaries would be and no uterus. Externally her genitally would look female so she likely has a vulva (the exterior part of the pussy) and no cock (besides the clit - which would be normal size due to the lack of androgen sensitivity). Some women with AIS suffer from a shallow vagina which they may or may not correct with surgery.

[soup]

(11-23-2013 02:18 PM)Ensam Wrote:  

(11-23-2013 02:08 PM)soup Wrote:  

Are you saying that chick has balls where her uterus is supposed to be? Does she have a cock or a pussy?

Depending on the specifics of her condition (which she wasn't open about) she'd have testicles where her ovaries would be and no uterus. Externally her genitally would look female so she likely has a vulva (the exterior part of the pussy) and no cock (besides the clit - which would be normal size due to the lack of androgen sensitivity). Some women with AIS suffer from a shallow vagina which they may or may not correct with surgery.

So she's essentially a chick in every other way- she doesn't give off male pheromones or anything like that?

[AnonymousBosch]

Quote:

For right now, Redpill is the most honest assessment of the situation: men are men, and women are women, and trying to cross those boundaries can be seen as crass, stupid, or just attention whoring.

I don't think science will ever override thousands of years of desirable mating traits. A dominant, fit, masculine man will always be sought after by anything that thinks like a woman. Red pill won't go anywhere.

Having worked in workplaces with high numbers of gay men, I can honestly say from my observations they have the mind of teenage girls - the main difference being they're far more honest about their complete lack of emotional and sexual loyalty to friends and partners.

They have hamsters; they respond the same way to dominant, alpha men; and you can 'game' them (obviously non-sexually) to get them on your side. They even do the 'playful slap' of your chest or arms if you say something politically-incorrect. They are women.

One at my last job functioned as my office spy, as I refused to be part of the break room henhouse. The women all loved him and thought he was their best friend and 'fun'. He hated every one of them.

Through him I'd learn things trivial, (my office was known as 'bad boy corner'); more serious (if any of the mushroom-cutted hags had seen the young temp feeling my body in the copy room whilst telling me she was studying 'Reiki massage' and that she needed someone to practice on); and of great importance, (when a hag was gunning for my job, or wasn't coping with her workload, allowing me to prepare damage control after she publically failed by instantly solving the problem).

Since lately it seems the really Hot Girls are more likely to have a status-raising Pet Fag than a status-lowering Tagalong Fatty, it's worth expanding game to defeat the cockblocker. Because they have zero loyalty, if you 'game' them, they'll practically throw her your way as a way of maintaining access to you, thinking they can try and 'turn' you behind her back if you date her.

So, basically, the boundaries may get blurrier with all the gender bullshittery, but Red Pill will always give you the option of not having to select anything but that which you're naturally attracted to.

[Ensam]

(11-23-2013 02:20 PM)soup Wrote:  

So she's essentially a chick in every other way- she doesn't give off male pheromones or anything like that?

In some ways she's hyper-female because her body doesn't respond to testosterone at all. In other words, she couldn't pull a Chaz Bono if she wanted to. I don't know that there's any literature on AIS and pheromones. Given that they seem to be linked to hormonal states my guess would be no male pheromones at all.

[soup]

(11-23-2013 02:28 PM)Ensam Wrote:  

(11-23-2013 02:20 PM)soup Wrote:  

So she's essentially a chick in every other way- she doesn't give off male pheromones or anything like that?

In some ways she's hyper-female because her body doesn't respond to testosterone at all. In other words, she couldn't pull a Chaz Bono if she wanted to. I don't know that there's any literature on AIS and pheromones. Given that they seem to be linked to hormonal states my guess would be no male pheromones at all.

Are you saying she's more of a girl than most girls except for the fact the's got balls inside?

Does she get horny like a female would? I know girls get turned on right before their period.

[MHaes]

(11-23-2013 02:21 PM)AnonymousBosch Wrote:  

Since lately it seems the really Hot Girls are more likely to have a status-raising Pet Fag than a status-lowering Tagalong Fatty

[Ensam]

(11-23-2013 02:33 PM)soup Wrote:  

(11-23-2013 02:28 PM)Ensam Wrote:  

(11-23-2013 02:20 PM)soup Wrote:  

So she's essentially a chick in every other way- she doesn't give off male pheromones or anything like that?

In some ways she's hyper-female because her body doesn't respond to testosterone at all. In other words, she couldn't pull a Chaz Bono if she wanted to. I don't know that there's any literature on AIS and pheromones. Given that they seem to be linked to hormonal states my guess would be no male pheromones at all.

Are you saying she's more of a girl than most girls except for the fact the's got balls inside?

Does she get horny like a female would? I know girls get turned on right before their period.

This is getting far outside of my areas of expertise but I have a PhD in a totally unrelated field so I feel qualified to answer. It depends on how you define femininity, but it terms of external characteristics - yes. A huge open question is how much is if women with AIS have brains that are more 'male' or 'female'. That probably depends on how much of the brains development is driven by the genes on the Y-chromosome and how much is determined by hormones.

In terms of sex drive, everything I can find indicates that most women with AIS have normal sex drives. Of course that means understanding what normal is. They wouldn't have a menstrual cycle so I doubt they're horny during particular periods of the month like XX women are. It's probably more of a steady state thing like men have. The literature is pretty thin though.

[soup]

Do her balls make sperm? What about the tits?

[Ensam]

No functional sperm. Unclear if there are sperm cells that could potentially become viable. She does have tits though.

Here's an interview with her where she's open about her condition:

It's a really complicated issue. There's really no good definition of gender that doesn't breakdown in edge cases. She says she's a woman because she 'feels' like a woman. At the moment that seems to really be the only answer. However, it opens the doors for attention whores to make all sorts of claims about how they feel about their gender that nobody can really confirm or deny. The fact that people can alter their appearance with hormones and surgery just further complicates things.

Actually I think there's a fairly strong 'red pill' lesson here:
Gender is neither a strict biological or social/cultural construct. It's both. Feminists seek to deny the biological aspect by redefining the cultural. Effeminate dudes attempt to hijack the feminine cultural aspect while still maintaining the male biological advantages. Instead of denying either aspect of gender we should be embracing both and celebrating the differences between men and women.

[runsonmagic]

(11-23-2013 02:05 PM)pheonix500000 Wrote:  

(11-23-2013 01:54 PM)runsonmagic Wrote:  

In the future, you'll be able to grow children in artificial wombs.

The ability of men to have children without women, plus a male birth control pill will mean total red pill freedom.

At present, the only reason to marry is children and family, which is something I know I want. Think how easy it'll be to MGTOW when you don't have to worry about accidental pregnancy and you don't need women to have children.

Don't worry about the future. We'll make it right.

hmmm thats pretty much the first twenty minutes of the superman movie.

And Brave New World, and Michel Houellebecq's sci-fi, and several alien conspiracy theories...

Sci-fi has explored this a lot.

The sexual revolution was enabled by the separation between sex and reproduction caused by birth control. Sex is separated from reproduction, but reproduction still requires sex. When it doesn't, there is nothing to stop Nike from ordering up a hundred Asian children from the wombvats to do their bidding.

Or we might evolve into Grey-like aliens that explore the universe free from sex, who have to time travel back and interbred with humans because genetic engineering has weakened the available genes for their species.

Pick your sci-fi fantasy. Just know that the blue pill depends on needing women to provide sex and raise children. When you don't need women, you don't need their imperative either.

[kbell]

Would you bang Eden Atwood?

Also I was pretty sure Jaime Lee Curtis had non descending testicles.

[Hades]

(11-23-2013 01:00 PM)soup Wrote:  

Let's take it even further and say that not only can the scientists give the tranny a way to make a baby, but can also re-wire the mind to think more like the gender it's aiming for.

Right there, evidence that there are concrete differences separating the genders.
If the mind has to be "rewired" to "think more like a man (or woman)" that's a solid argument for sexual dimorphism.

I think a lot of feminists can't wait for a day when technology supersedes gender and renders their inadequacies as women functionally meaningless.

[lurker]

(11-23-2013 04:54 PM)kbell Wrote:  

Would you bang Eden Atwood?

Also I was pretty sure Jaime Lee Curtis had non descending testicles.

Does she get wet? I thought vaginal lubrication came from female-specific glands.

[The Beast1]

You know what,

If a man wants to become a woman. More power to him.

If a woman wants to become a man. More power to her.

I honestly, don't care. I don't understand why they want to change, but if they feel so empowered to do so then let 'em.

There is something wrong with an individual that wants to change their sex. Something mental, but I'm not 100% sure what it is.

I trust my gut to be able to flesh out such insecurity at its individual level. These people will go through changes that will permanently scare them beyond any tattoos possible.

We live in a country where we can allow people like this to practice what they believe and live lives that they think we make them happy.

I 100% support their right to change their sex. I 100% believe in my ability to find people and flesh them out on sheer instinct alone as people I should not get involved with.

However, back to my country statement: they have the right to be whomever they want and if that includes there sex then so be it.

Yes I find it weird and yes they shouldn't feel like that. But dang nabbit we live in a place where we can say, "Go for it brah!" while saying, "Maybe you should look for better avenues." Let them do stupid decisions and use your gut to distinguish someone so insecure as to change their sex so to protect yourself from the "UGH".

This post is ethanol fueled. Cheers