[Maciano]

1) Bitcoins can be regulated, but since the bitcoin economy is global, it will be impossible for governments to do, without becoming overly tyranical.

- Cody Wilson opensourced & torrented his 3Dprinted gun, it's downloadable right now through The Pirate Bay. The Feds tried to stop him, but it didn't work. Actually, today some other guy showed of his METAL 3Dprinted gun. Again, they'd have to shut off the internet to do this. What I'm trying to say is: if filesharing of MP3s, movies & even gun-CADs can't be stopped, neither can bitcoin, which is based on the similar decentralized structure.
- If you say: they'll target the exchanges. True, that'll deepsix BTC's price, but not permanently. There will be exchanges surviving & new ones coming into being. It'll be possible to access them through TOR/I2P, hard to check every person on the internet willing to buy cryptocurrencies. Starting an exchange will be exceedingly easy, with SaaS (like WooCommerce/Magento for webshops) today.
- Also, Mesh networks are being made so people can create their own 'inter-nets' through mobile phones that function as antennas. Gov's can never stop that.

2) Bitcoin vs. Gold? False dichotomy.

Both are commodities; gold is a physical commodity, bitcoin a digital commodity. The real rivalry is between commodities vs. fiat money in an inflationary world. I'd say, buy a little of both: cryptocurrencies and precious metals. It's part of a good portfolio. What's more likely, btw? Seizing physical gold or outlawing BTC? I suspect both are similarly risky. The former even happened in history.

And even if BTC would be outlawed you could still sell it for cash in countries where it'll not be illegal. One country will never be strong enough to force their will upon all other countries in the world.

My buddy is in Argentina right now, he can't get money from ATM, but he could change BTC for pesos.

[Barada22]

I would bet on a government being overtly tyrannical before I bet against it haha.

Look at how china restricts Internet access, any country could do the same thing very easily, cutting you off intermittently or completely.

The difference between a gun and bitcoins is the will of the government to stop it. Guns do not compete with capital of a nation, bitcoins do. If the government truly wanted to stop any part of the Internet they could, online poker in the US is a perfect comparison, they shut it down and froze people's assets. Just wait until they freeze people's 401k plans and start taking money out as they please (not to get off subject).

The problem with the very technical ways around servers and exchanges and such is that it is very technical. Not enough people have the knowledge to make it a viable option, prices would be affected and wouldn't be able to recover. The recovery in that case would come solely from manipulation of the marketplace.

Bitcoins are more of a fiat currency than a commodity. The difference is that they are privately created instead of publicly.

And I don't mean to completely shit on bitcoins. It is definitely the future of money, but they are not ready to be mainstream. For me there is just too much risk involved and there are way more and way easier ways to make money than trading something whose value comes solely from demand.

[polar]

I'm admittedly a newb to bitcoin, but considering plowing into it in the "me-too" fashion. You can mine on your home computer, but it's hardly at record speeds. I don't pay for electricity, so it doesn't matter to me.

Can anyone experienced with Bitcoins provide an opinion on mining with USB Block Erupters via a USB hub and fan setup? At the current rates of ~$23/ea (plus hub, plus fan) and 330 MH/S, is it a worthwhile investment?

Given everyone is plowing into the currency, with massive server racks and custom solutions becoming available, does this have an ROI good enough to at least recoup losses and make some happy hour money - or is this just another one gold rush where the only people making out are the ones selling the picks and shovels to greedy miners?

[Parlay44]

If you have a common international currency it will just give more power to the wealthy ruling elite.
It's the same thing as Walmart coming to your small town and sucking up all the wealth. The money
goes out of town and is not reinvested in the community. All the little "mom and pop" shops will suffer.
Traditional cultures will disappear and be replaced with American style consumer culture.

From the player's point of view you won't be able to exploit the difference in value of currency as you travel.
You won't be seen as the wealthy foreigner anymore. Bitches will only want to fuck you because of some
kind of racial fetish they might have or strictly for your wealth and position in the new international economy.

The concept of international currency scares me. It's some New World Order shit.

[el mechanico]

Quote:

BUSINESS INSIDER More: Bitcoin
Bitcoin Could Go To $1 Million
HENRY BLODGET NOV. 8, 2013, 10:20 AM 44,996 154

inShare
51 EMAIL MORE

beatles fans screaming mania
Eddie Adams / AP
The value of the electronic currency Bitcoin has hit a new high of $340.
This is not surprising.

Earlier this spring, when Bitcoin was in the middle of its last price spike, I "raised my Bitcoin target" to $400.

This was an inside joke — I don't have a Bitcoin target. But I was getting at a more profound point. $400 is a perfectly reasonable target for Bitcoin. As is $1,000. As is $10,000 or $100,000 or $1 million.

And as is $0.01.

This is because Bitcoin has no inherent value. Its adherents refer to it as a "store of value," but Bitcoin is only a "store of value" because, right now, its price keeps going up. Unlike gold or dollars or other things that have widely accepted utility, Bitcoin's price is determined entirely by what someone else is willing to pay for it. Right now, because Bitcoin's price is going up, and Bitcoin is in relatively short supply, people are willing to pay $340 for it. And the ever-increasing demand for Bitcoin will keep driving the price up until people don't want to buy or hold it anymore.

At that point, by the way, the price of Bitcoin will collapse. And anyone who thinks it can't collapse all the way to zero is delusional.

I have written extensively about Bitcoin.

I have explained why Bitcoin is the "perfect asset bubble."

I have explained why Bitcoin speculators are just laughing at everyone who thinks they are idiots for buying Bitcoin.

And I have explained that Bitcoin prices could go "vastly higher from here." (I first said this when Bitcoin was $90. It's just as true today, at $340.)

I also think, however, that it is highly likely that Bitcoin will prove to be a gigantic bubble, like Beanie Babies, Pogs, or, yes, tulip bulbs. Bitcoin has all the hallmarks of bubbles, including:

A good underlying story
A sexy "new-ness" that requires some work to understand
A small and finite supply
A fundamental "value" that is highly subjective and, therefore, justifiable at almost any level
A high level of risk and excitement associated with trading it
A passionate community of early adherents who are convinced of their own brilliance and lash out defensively at anyone who dares suggest that they are, in fact, hallucinating. (Don't believe this? Diss Bitcoin on Twitter and see what happens. The Bitcoin Zealots are more aggressive and sillier than Apple fanboys.)
I have also described some of the major risks that could break the Bitcoin spell and lead to a price collapse. The biggest of these, I think, is that Bitcoin won't ever be widely accepted — either because governments ban it or because it remains complicated and shadowy. (One of the biggest advantages of "dollars" is that they are accepted everywhere and are extremely easy to use. Bitcoin isn't.)

I do think the world is ready for a simple, global, electronic currency, and that Bitcoin has a shot at becoming that. But this success is the farthest thing from guaranteed.

Having said that, I want to be clear about something:

In the months and years before we know the ultimate fate of Bitcoin, the price could do absolutely anything.

There is no limit to the price that Bitcoin could attain.

There is no theoretical difference between a price of $1 per Bitcoin and $1 million per Bitcoin. The only thing that will determine Bitcoin prices is what people are willing to pay them. And if enthusiasm about Bitcoin continues to move beyond a small group of digerati, cryptologists, and hard-money fanatics, Bitcoin's price could go vastly higher.

How high?

It is perfectly reasonable to think that Bitcoin's price could go to $1 million.

That's not a prediction. It's just a fact.

(I have no idea what Bitcoin prices are going to do. I also don't own Bitcoin, so I don't care what the price does. And I'm not "encouraging speculation." I couldn't care less whether you buy or don't buy Bitcoin.)

So, there, I've said it.

Bitcoin is probably a gigantic bubble that will leave its early religious devotees looking and feeling like fools.

But in the meantime, Bitcoin could make them dynastically rich.

Because, yes, the price of Bitcoin could go all the way to $1 million.



Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/bitcoin-p...z2kGNRwdND

[el mechanico]

Now Parlay, how dumb are you going to feel if you don't have 1 stupid Bitcoin?

I have over 100 right now= el mech possible millionaire soon.

[Parlay44]

(11-10-2013 12:16 PM)el mechanico Wrote:  

Now Parlay, how dumb are you going to feel if you don't have 1 stupid Bitcoin?

I have over 100 right now= el mech possible millionaire soon.

Don't you also have a stash of New Iraqi Dinars in your safe as well?

[el mechanico]

(11-10-2013 12:20 PM)Parlay44 Wrote:  

(11-10-2013 12:16 PM)el mechanico Wrote:  

Now Parlay, how dumb are you going to feel if you don't have 1 stupid Bitcoin?

I have over 100 right now= el mech possible millionaire soon.

Don't you also have a stash of New Iraqi Dinars in your safe as well?

Yup.

[Maciano]

Business Insider seems a bit too invested in naming bitcoin a bubble. One of their worst clown, Joe Weisenthal, is especially annoying. But free speech and all... whatever.

Anyway, I think that bitcoin is not a bubble, right now it is (was?) in a bubbly phase, just like april '13. I think the bitcoin-code will be as profoundly disruptive as the internet was, in ways we can't yet imagine. And when I mean disruptive, I mean really disruptive; like the original intention of the word -- not like an app such as Tinder becoming more popular than OkCupid.

High-fee wire transfer services like Western Union will go first; then savings/loans functions of banks will be replaced; finally, currencies will be impacted. It might take decades, but it will happen. It might not be bitcoin, but it will be the cryptocurrency system causing the change.

Right now, there's not even a killer-app like email was for the internet, but it will come. For a very good interview, I point people to this IBM computer scientist who explains & brainstorms on bitcoin's future.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gERNbqUNMm4

It's really not a bad idea to have some bitcoin

@el_mechanico

100 BTC, wow. That's a good catch, my man. Wel done.

[Acute Angle]

For Bitcoin to reach $1 million, then it would have to represent a huge slice of the world economy. I think there can only be 21 million bitcoins, and at $1 million each, that's $21 TRILLION dollars. That's a lot of money. That must be in the ballpark of the total GDP of all the countries in the world. It seems unlikely that that value of trade will be conducted in BTC, in the next few years, at least.

[el mechanico]

Parlay maybe you should start with some of the cheaper alt coins

[pants]

(11-10-2013 12:16 PM)el mechanico Wrote:  

Now Parlay, how dumb are you going to feel if you don't have 1 stupid Bitcoin?

I have over 100 right now= el mech possible millionaire soon.

That's a decent fortune. All time high in china was 418 i belive? The you had a decent 41 800USD for a while. Not bad!

I hope you take necessery precautions to store them safely. Would hate to read you got victim of a hacker attack.

[Parlay44]

(11-10-2013 03:26 PM)el mechanico Wrote:  

Parlay maybe you should start with some of the cheaper alt coins

I'm starting to read a little bit on how to mine them. That appeals to me more than buying them.

[Parlay44]

I might be on the wrong track though ...

http://theweek.com/article/index/242753/...-dont-mine

Quote:

As TechCrunch cautions, "While you could simply set a machine aside and have it run the algorithms endlessly, the energy cost and equipment deprecation will eventually cost more than the actual Bitcoins are worth.

[el mechanico]

I think I offered to buy a miner if someone would maintain it for me once here. Either way I made over two btc last night after I sold some at around 6pm I'm trying to figure out the Chinese buying habits. I'm probably going to buy a plug and play litecoin miner and hook it up to free electricity. I'm doing this and really have no clue WTF I'm doing. I was taking coins for work and buying them "cheap" with my extra cash. Now I just buy and sell.

[el mechanico]

Also log on to your local criagslist and type bitcoins in the initial search. Barter your services or troll them for used miners of whatever it's been growing on there since I started. Now I won't barter at 300 right now but at 100- 150 yeAh. Also dont at full value because the fluctuate so much.

[LeBeau]

(11-07-2013 11:56 PM)cycliss Wrote:  

As someone who has made thousands from Bitcoin as well as contributed code to the ecosystem, I can comfortably say that this guy knows very little and I would not follow his advice.

Bitcoin, aside from being one very cool piece of technology, has been a legitimate get-rich quick scheme for some people. However, for every get-rich quick scheme, there have to be a shitload of sheep out there. If you aren't sure whether or not you are a sheep, then you ARE the sheep. Its pretty cool and fun dipping your toes in and getting immersed in the world, but don't go in expecting to be Gordon Geckko if you don't know what the fuck you are doing.

Would you be able to write up a guide/datasheet for the rest of us?

I'm sure that would add a lot of value here.

[el mechanico]

My problem: I can't type my thoughts because my brain is too busy. I know all my posts sound retarded because I read them and don't understand myself if that makes sense.

But I'll tell you watch the clock btc 347 now on gox. They pump we dump but will only go for so long in my eyes because with their support the " currency" is more stable.

I believe LTC is going to be the next.. Maybe but it's cheap so wait for a crash and buy in.. It will be boring but it spikes everytime any hype surrounds it to 4 or so. It was 1 something and I didn't read about anyone here fucking with it...

I'm going to buy and hold soon. If you read the trollbox they hype it all day. Which means the holders are playing it hard. I'll post a link

[el mechanico]

Btc-e trolls are heavily invested in LTC. Chicken shit and will mass dump at 4.95 to 5.25 if the Chinese pick the slack up LTC will re stabilize and go up slowly then skyrocket again to 10 to 15 dollars as long as btc doesn't crash below 250

[Cattle Rustler]

It's a bit surreal finding emech giving financial advice and talking about investments. He's a good investor, but after reading his poon diaries and troll log....it's a bit odd.

emech should open his own investment firm.

[el mechanico]

Nobody here gives a fuck about this Cattle Rustler.

[Parlay44]

Stupid question: Why are these bitcoin miners doing all these calculations? Is it for scientific research? Who is the end customer that is paying for all this bitcoin mining?

[cycliss]

(11-10-2013 07:20 PM)LeBeau Wrote:  

(11-07-2013 11:56 PM)cycliss Wrote:  

As someone who has made thousands from Bitcoin as well as contributed code to the ecosystem, I can comfortably say that this guy knows very little and I would not follow his advice.

Bitcoin, aside from being one very cool piece of technology, has been a legitimate get-rich quick scheme for some people. However, for every get-rich quick scheme, there have to be a shitload of sheep out there. If you aren't sure whether or not you are a sheep, then you ARE the sheep. Its pretty cool and fun dipping your toes in and getting immersed in the world, but don't go in expecting to be Gordon Geckko if you don't know what the fuck you are doing.

Would you be able to write up a guide/datasheet for the rest of us?

I'm sure that would add a lot of value here.

My opinion wouldn't be too popular here but here are some basics. Firstly, you have to accept the fact that the overwhelming interest in Bitcoin comes from the get-rich quick angle. This is perfectly natural and has legitimately worked out for some people (including me on a small scale). I've met a guy who cashed out and bought a house as well as a guy who had 20k coins when I last spoke to him. The great news is that there will be TONS more opportunities to make big money going ahead. We won't have reached the end of "get rich quick" period until investor activity in Bitcoin is the same as it was for the 90's dot coms. Not only that, but due to no regulation and no real valuation metrics, the valuation of Bitcoin will be CRAZY MORE volatile than any IPO. That being said, one of the biggest reasons for the price swings right now is due to a lack of a derivatives market. When that is created, expect the actual price demonination to settle down considerably.

The big problem though is that so many people getting into it have no idea what the fuck they are doing. They have no strategy and little to no understanding of the technical, economic, investor, or trading aspects of bitcoin. The forum posters here are no exception. The level of knowledge competence displayed in the general [Making Money]investing non-btc posts here is ridiculously bad. Technical knowledge of BTC here is also laughably bad but understandable since most forum members aren't engineers. The more of these sheep there are, it just means more slaughter (profit) for the wolves. So typical sheep would be people who bought miners or thought we were in a new paradigm when it hit 300 a few months ago or investors in the BTC Savings Trust etc. Typical wolves would be ASIC miner companies, many exchanges, many online wallet services, big money market manipulators, companies who sold bitcoin stocks etc. There are a lot of players and complex relationships...

The easiest way to get rich quick without doing much work in BTC is to start trading. Would I recommend it? No. But it is the easiest way and can net you much faster profits than anything you would get out of the regular markets. The best way is to just start getting your hands dirty and put some real money on the line. Taking a real loss will ensure you don't make the same mistake again. Its the same reason real traders don't recommend paper trading. The price of BTC is almost entirely investor psychology driven so its best to get your cues from great traders who specialize in this area. I can recommend George Soros.

There are a lot of wantrenpreneurs here on the board and Bitcoin represents fantastic "in" that hasn't yet been touched by retail. It is also the method of entry I'd recommend. You don't need to know tech to found a bitcoin business. Many of the biggest people in the space don't. For inspiration you can take a look at Charlie Shrem, 23-year old economics undergrad who started BitInstant (allows you to buy bitcoin at 7-11, walmart etc.) by basically just making a shitload of calls to payment processors and banks until he found one that would process bitcoin payments; he co-owns a bitcoin bar in NYC and is now a millionare.

Anyway there are so many more aspects to bitcoin but these are just some thoughts to chew on.

[LowerCaseG]

(11-07-2013 07:11 PM)LowerCaseG Wrote:  

When the other thread was going down, I went through Wikipedia, and read up on Bitcoins. I am a relatively smart guy though not computer wise. I still have no idea:
-What a Bitcoin is.
-How you make one.
-What they are used for. I mean practically, not as a currency. If it has no practical use, and is simply a currency, how is it any different than paper money?

Still have no idea what a bitcoin is in real life.

[Steve9]

(11-10-2013 12:16 PM)el mechanico Wrote:  

I have over 100 right now= el mech possible millionaire soon.

el mech, at what price would you start selling your horde?