[Sirob]

Peace and greetings to fellow gamers on this forum,

I'm a 32 YO Indian guy working and living in Basel, Switzerland for the last 2 years. Originally from Bombay, but have been out of Bombay for almost 4 years now. I was initially based in the US (Parsippany, NJ) for 2 years before moving to Basel.

As far as my level of game goes, it was almost zero 5 months back, but then I chanced upon Roosh and Roissy's websites. Bought Bang, went thru it, was a real eye opener and have been implementing the concepts and ideas underlined in the book (and on the sites) on the locals.

My stay in the US was ok poonani wise, but of course reading the posts on this forum, it seems that US girls are the easiest to lay. However I am running into a wall in Switzerland time and again.

The problem as I perceive it is that Swiss culture is very inward looking and they take a really really long time to open up to foreigners and build attraction/trust. I approach pretty regularly on the streets (mainly) and in pubs/bars (not so frequently) but find it hard to close/number close or go for a SNL. A part of the problem I guess is also the Asian/Indian background, which tends to block the pick-up, as the girls over here sort of clam up when I disclose that I'm from India. I am in good shape (hit the gym 3 times a week), am well read and traveled and generally don't look like an Indian guy (I've been told that I look like a Brazilian/Moroccan/Italian guy many times).

So my question to all the experienced and veteran gamers on this forum is: How would you approach gaming the local Swiss girls in Switzerland, if you were an Asian/Indian guy with average/decent looks and beginner level game ?

Peace and thanks to all,
Let the quest for poonani continue,
Sirob

[Badstuber]

(11-09-2010 09:04 AM)Sirob Wrote:  

The problem as I perceive it is that Swiss culture is very inward looking and they take a really really long time to open up to foreigners and build attraction/trust. I approach pretty regularly on the streets (mainly) and in pubs/bars (not so frequently) but find it hard to close/number close or go for a SNL. A part of the problem I guess is also the Asian/Indian background, which tends to block the pick-up, as the girls over here sort of clam up when I disclose that I'm from India. I am in good shape (hit the gym 3 times a week), am well read and traveled and generally don't look like an Indian guy (I've been told that I look like a Brazilian/Moroccan/Italian guy many times).

This is the same all over western-Europe, really. Read more here.

Back to your question:
http://www.rooshvforum.network/thread-2299.html?

[InternationPlayboy]

Man, I hear Switzerland is especially hard. One of my best friends has lived there for the last 3 years. She says it's nothing like the US or South America. You rarely see people making out at the clubs unless they are dating. Where she lives though is very international. It wouldn't seem like it would be a problem to be from another place in switzerland, as it's such a small country. But IDK, never been, but planning to go and see that friend the first trip I take to Europe.

[Sirob]

Yes, it is quite hard over here, especially if you are not white. There is a subtle hint of an undercurrent of racism and that makes it all the more harder for non-whites to sarge and pick up.

The American/British/Australian/Irish/Canadian and New Zealand guys have a very big plus point as the media portrays these countries as "cool" and therefore the locals naturally gravitate towards them. In fact the women look towards being opened by guys from the above countries.

There is really no bar/club scene out here. As you noted below, make-outs in bars/clubs are rare unless the couple is dating and ONS are almost impossible unless you know the girl well beforehand and/or are a part of her social circle.

However that hasn't stopped me from running day game (my primary focus). I mainly get tonnes of numbers and although flake rates are high (maybe someone can help me reduce this?), I eventually go on dates and get laid from there.

Night game has proved almost impossible for me to crack. I have been trying for the last 3 months (havent yet tried all concepts) and yet havent gotten a SNL due to running game. The only SNLs which I had gotten in the past were due to random drunk hookups.

In short, if you are white and/or belong to any of the "cool" countries, then it might make a big difference in Switzerland. Otherwise its hard over here to get poonani.

(11-10-2010 03:32 AM)InternationPlayboy Wrote:  

Man, I hear Switzerland is especially hard. One of my best friends has lived there for the last 3 years. She says it's nothing like the US or South America. You rarely see people making out at the clubs unless they are dating. Where she lives though is very international. It wouldn't seem like it would be a problem to be from another place in switzerland, as it's such a small country. But IDK, never been, but planning to go and see that friend the first trip I take to Europe.

[Badstuber]

Quote:

In short, if you are white and/or belong to any of the "cool" countries, then it might make a big difference in Switzerland. Otherwise its hard over here to get poonani.

That's true, it's sad really. All this is caused by far-right parties and media.

Anyways, just try to dhv as much as possible.

[Sirob]

Thanks Badstuber. Any useful tips on how to press high octane buttons while DHVing i.e. get your DHV soaring in the shortest time possible.

Normally I run the usual DHV stories featuring "preselection", "leader of men", "ability to protect" and "ability to emote".

(11-10-2010 05:25 AM)Badstuber Wrote:  

Quote:

In short, if you are white and/or belong to any of the "cool" countries, then it might make a big difference in Switzerland. Otherwise its hard over here to get poonani.

That's true, it's sad really. All this is caused by far-right parties and media.

Anyways, just try to dhv as much as possible.

[Badstuber]

Tell them stuff that you are there on business meetings and so on. Also never say that you are from India.

[Rocco81]

@Badstuber: Its not the whole "Far Right" parties. As a matter of fact most of the Euro countries push multi-culturalism too far IMO. I mean just because an Indian dude isn't getting play in Switzerland, doesn't mean that its because the Gov't is telling girls not to.

Back to the OP - I was in Germany a couple times, the first time for Several months and even as a white guy who spoke German, I can tell you that at times they are simply a little more closed off to meeting strangers. Swiss, German and Austrians are simply not as friendly and open to meeting new people, they are known for that. If you are approaching on the street, I would not recommend it. That is seen as pushy and rude in some cultures, maybe even desperate.

Gaming on these forums will lead you to believe things a certain way, which might be more tailored to picking up North American women or Colombian women etc. but not for certain pockets of Central Europe. The Swiss tend to be very educated, have money and are fairly multicultural. Switzerland is tiny and one of the richest countries in the world.
This means: 1. You are not a unique snowflake , you one of many Indians they have seen around town and in the cities (like Gringo's have become in Medellin) 2. Having an international Job isn't as impressive in A place like Switzerland. 3. Simply bieng educated is less of a big deal there where the education level is high. You need to keep on with gym talk, funny routines, things other than work or study talk. Not only is that boring anywhere, its esp. boring and common place in 1st world educated societies.

- Try to be the Indian guy with a slight edgyness. Up your gym routine, get a little bigger. Go out to regular bars and dress down. I know most of the Indian guys I see drink Scotch and dress up nice, but they end up looking the same and going to the same places as other Indian guys. Get out of your comfort zone and dress a little different, go to a different kind of bar. Go to sporting events , Swiss sports bars etc.

- Have you any Swiss friends? If not, make some. Hang out with some locals and get outside your zone, they will introduce you to girls.

- Do not eat Curry. If you do eat Curry stop. I wish I was kidding but Im not. No offense dude, but I choke when Im at the gym and an Indian comes next to me smelling like he uses Curry for talkum powder..I'm talking from 6 ft away I can almost taste it.

- Stop staying Poonani. There is just something strange sounding about an Indian dude sayin Poo Naaan Eeee to me.

[Rocco81]

Regarding some of the other Opinions about Swiss culture. I have only been to Austria and Germany, but I can imagine that like these 2 countries the small towns in Switzerland are more conservative (like anywhere I guess) and the cities tend to be more multicultural. I have a friend who lived in Zurich for a while and he said that while it was $$$$ as hell, it was very multi-cultural and open game wise

[Sirob]

As I mentioned in my earlier posts, if you are white and/or from the US/UK/Australia/Ireland/Canada/New Zealand, this gives you a very big plus point in just getting to the stage where the local women look forward to interacting with you. Gaming them after that is just a matter of individual expertise and motivation.

Also regarding the comments you made in the earlier post, those do not apply to me. For an Indian man, I am very well groomed, have good taste in clothes (maybe need to dress a bit more funky/edgy as you mentioned) and do not smell/reek of curry. I am especially sensitive to the last point and take all possible care to avoid any olfactory mishaps.

I have a fairly large social circle of friends out here, although very few of them are Swiss. They are mostly European and South American. Making friends with the Swiss is an exercise in itself. After trying extremely hard for the last 2 years, I sort of gave it up this year.

Thanks for your feedback tho. My opinion about day gaming in Switzerland has not changed, but I will try out your tips during night game.

(11-10-2010 10:08 AM)Rocco81 Wrote:  

Regarding some of the other Opinions about Swiss culture. I have only been to Austria and Germany, but I can imagine that like these 2 countries the small towns in Switzerland are more conservative (like anywhere I guess) and the cities tend to be more multicultural. I have a friend who lived in Zurich for a while and he said that while it was $$$$ as hell, it was very multi-cultural and open game wise

[Rocco81]

Yes Sirob, keep your chin up. Or just travel to another European country close by and bang all weekend to make up for lost time

I do know how hard it was to make quick friends in Germany. Most of my guy friends even were South African, English, Scottish or Italian. I can say that the few German guy friends I made in Germany were good people though. Once you get to know them, they will give you the shirt off their back and are brutally honest (to me that is a good thing)

Yeah its probably going to be tough there, but as I suggested try and change up a bit. One guy I know here in my area gets women from bieng the bad boy, smoker, drinker, rocker, don't give a fuck kind of guy. He is very Indian looking, very normal dude, but he's edgy and cool. He works out, drives a fast car listens to rock. The important thing, is that this comes accross natural and in turn he gets attention for bieng the "Indian" guy that doesn't wear sandals and program PC's all day.

(Sorry for the stereotype, but you know the kind of guys Im talking about Sirob)

[gds555]

This is making me feel better. I was chatting up a couple of twentysomething Swiss chicks tonight in Washington, D.C., at a small Swiss-embassy-sponsored reception in connection with the showing of a Swiss film in a German-language film festival. They were both from Bern, were vaguely connected with the embassy, and were sort of helping out with the reception. First the more attractive one (who I was barely talking to anyway) drifted off; then the less attractive one started to get less and less talkative; then a woman from the embassy cockblocked me by "rescuing" the less attractive one from the conversation with a request to help clean up. I've had similar experiences at this same reception twice before, in 2009 and 2010; nevertheless, I still walked away wondering what, if anything, I could have done better. I'm glad to see that there's at least a chance it might have been the culture more than it was me.

[Mystik]

(11-10-2010 02:45 PM)Rocco81 Wrote:  

One guy I know here in my area gets women from bieng the bad boy, smoker, drinker, rocker, don't give a fuck kind of guy. He is very Indian looking, very normal dude, but he's edgy and cool. He works out, drives a fast car listens to rock.

I suggest that you don't do this in Europe, especially Switzerland. You will come across as a jackass and it will definitely backfire. And I am an Indian.

Swiss are very reserved and I have heard this from white Europeans.So, try to game the foreigners but you are in Basel so I don't know if it attracts many tourists.

Befriend guys from other countries and hang out with them. Guys from Mediterranean countries generally like Indians and they are much cooler to hand out with but they do have the tendency to cockblock.

If you have fucked some women who are living in Basel then some of them might want to be friends with you and would like tohandout with you. There is no reason not to do so.

[rudebwoy]

Not to diminish what the OP is saying, but my one time menage trois was with two swiss girls from Lucerne. Granted it was in the greek islands but I have always heard positive feedback about swiss chicks. I even briefly passed through Zurich airport and was surprised that a few girls said hello to me. I guess my "kind" was not too common in that part of the world, the only other brotha I saw was a african working in the airport.
I would tend to think that if you moved around Europe on weekends, you might get a better reaction. I think the trouble is that Switzerland is a closed community and perhaps everyone knows each other.

[docsedated]

Sirob,

I Know exactly where you are coming from, I will give you my 2 cents based on my personal experience.

1. Background: Yes do not tell girls you are from India, If you look Moroccan/Italian etc, tell them you were born in Morocco and tell them Dad was from India mother is Italian/ moroccan ( Coming from Indian Background it's a hard lie to tell) , Be congruent, make some shit up, you were in Morocco till 9 then moved to NJ went to high school there, and now living a free life style......

I have the same backgorund as you and when I started telling girls I was born to Indian Parents in England and then moved to NY , They seem to nutralize and things roll.......

2. Style: Change what ever you are wearing these days and try some thing else, Try going out suited, Try the rocker look, biker look, try V neck showing muscles as some one said

"you can expect different results doing the same things again "

That used to be my sticky too that I looked like a family man breaking away from kids to hit on girls, Now I look like a badass looking to get in trouble. Now I have had Girls stop me and tell me that they dig my Style , Go figure....., A simple V neck can make that much of a difference

Attraction starts the second the girls see you , then you have to build on it, It would be hard for me explain this concept in words but it is very important, you need to work on getting positive Initial responses from girls, Some thing about you must be Intriguing, Big Necklace, Belt buckle, Odd yet fashionble Sports coat, Custom fitted suit , all above worn with confidence.

3.Inner Game Actually this should be number 1, Stop thinking you are Indian and that being Indian hinders your game, It will affect you if you let it, OK Think about the Indian kids born in US going to colleges in US, They are pulling major ass, they do not think they are Indian and girls respond to them as if they are American, Girls do sense your Insecurities from a mile away

4.Accent:Consciously try to change your accent to British or American whichever one is easier, I you have lived in Bombay till you were 28 you would have a strong Indian accent, get rid of that , even take phonetic classes.

I can go on and on..... , but I do not want to get carpal tunnel at this stage in life

You are doing all the right things keep it up, like some said keep your chip up, keep us updated with your progress, I will be particularly interested as I have the same background as you.

Oh yes, have some one critique your game, It's hard to know what are you doing wrong ? Meet some one from the Forum , Meet Quasi, Is he close to you ? Go meet Mixx in Ukraine in April.... Seriously this shit is going to take effort......... I drove over 200 miles to meet Mixx and he ripped my game apart and I was able to see what I was doing wrong, I flew to DC to have roosh realigned my thinking process, Biggest game changer for me .............

I can not stress the Importance enough but you do have a sticky that only some one looking from outside can see , and be a little tough skin and let others tell you what is it that you are doing wrong ?

Now after all this I do want to know your progress as it will help mine

Happy Hunting........

[Aliblahba]

The guys have given you sound advice sirob. I especially agree w/ doc on the accent training. I know two Indian dudes here in the U.S. that rack up pussy. They dress edgy, drive nice cars, are rich, work out, ect. They never approach in the bar but rather create a social bubble that chicks want to be in. Their very atypicial Indians. If none of this works then fuck'em. Go Alexander style and sarge through Switzerland on the back of an elephant. If the bitches don't put out then run'em through w/ tusks.....or move to the Philippines.

[Global Baller]

(01-26-2011 11:25 PM)rudebwoy Wrote:  

Not to diminish what the OP is saying, but my one time menage trois was with two swiss girls from Lucerne. Granted it was in the greek islands but I have always heard positive feedback about swiss chicks. I even briefly passed through Zurich airport and was surprised that a few girls said hello to me. I guess my "kind" was not too common in that part of the world, the only other brotha I saw was a african working in the airport.

I wasn't intending to comment here, but since you -- a brotha -- chimed in, I will state that generally, Black guyz will have more success in Switz. There's two interesting factors at play here: (1) Opposites do attract...particularly, with white females. (2) Black guyz are perceived as being cool, hip & edgy to be with. Most of the top global athletes & entertainers are Black. If that weren't enough...the prez of the USA is Black. (3) There's one more thing that I have to mention: Many, many white females believe that brothas are packin' big-time. It doesn't matter whether it's true in all cases...what matters is the 'perception'. That's what helps brothas get over.

I think that Black females are ones that are really going to lose out long-term if more and more brothas start globetrotting.

[subutai]

I know an Asian dude (Westernized Chinese) who lived in Geneva. He banged a lot of European girls through social circle game in that city. In fact, it's his top spot in the world for lays, especially with liberal-minded, Northern European girls with Masters Degrees & PhDs on temporary assignment in Switzerland.

Basically, it's like this.

For a lot of classy, educated European girls, they like to get with Asian guys because it's "different" but "not tooooo different."

There's a level of social acceptance of East Asians (Japanese, Koreans, etc) as well as an image that Asian guys are incredibly smart, ambitious, well-mannered, spiritual, and deep. If you can tap into this but also offer the sexual/masculine vibe, it's game over. Asia has an incredibly rich culture, history, and traditions. There are A LOT of women who go ga ga over it. Don't be ashamed of that -- embrace it.

[Sirob]

Thanks to all you guys for the tips and sound advice!

Ive already put into effect some of the points that you guys mentioned. For e.g. have begun dressing up in custom suits quite often (even to lounges and classy bars).

Have also experimented with my look a bit - sort of making it a bit edgy with a goatee and some spiritual chains.

There has definitely been a big change in the IOIs from women. The main thing is to get out more often and practice. Unfortunately almost all my friends are either coupled up or are majorly beta, so that throws a spanner in the works, as a lone dude out and about in Switzerland is perceived as a weirdo by the women.

My day game is still strong and I rely on that heavily for approaches and dates. Have tried to stick to Mixx's 2 approaches a day policy and have begun to see a positive change already.

The lays I got in Basel were all thru day game and subsequent day 2 and day 3 dates. But from October last year it has become almost impossible to day game as the winter freeze takes over. However I still stick to the tried and tested spots such as grocery stores, coffee shops and department stores. But street game will have to wait till spring.

My night game sucks big time and a lot of it is due to the fact that I find it really hard to focus with all the distractions around. I also get stuck up during rambling quite often during night game. This rarely happens during a day game encounter, where I almost always have material and something to go on and eventually transition to an insta date.

Is there anyone close to Basel who I could meet up and take some constructive feedback about my game? Someone based maybe in germany or france.

In any case, Ill keep you guys updated about my progress on a frequent basis.

[gds555]

I wanted to add a couple of suggestions to docsedated's January 27, 2011 remarks to Sirob about passing for Indian-American or Indian-British rather than Indian, particularly as regards accents.

docsedated says "[tell the Swiss girls] you were in Morocco till 9 then moved to NJ". I'd change that to "thirteen". The reason is that age twelve, approximately, is a cutoff time for language and accent acquisition. Up to about age twelve, kids immersed in a new language or dialect or accent will usually acquire it perfectly, and do it semi-unconsciously. Around age twelve, your brain prunes away much of the extra language-learning circuitry that you needed up till then but that--your genome believes--you won't be needing any more. After that point, kids immersed in a new language or dialect are generally only able to learn it imperfectly; if simply immersed in a new accent, they may not bother to pick it up at all. So if Sirob is talking to some Swiss girls and they're sharp-eared enough to pick up on his Indian accent and are somewhat knowledgeable about language acquisition, they're liable to think to themselves, "This guy has been in New Jersey since he was nine and he still has an Indian accent? There must be something really wrong with him."

Now on the other hand, if Sirob can do a reasonably good though not perfect job of faking an American accent, he might be able to stick with the "in New Jersey since age nine" claim when gaming in Switzerland, as long as there aren't any sharp-eared Americans around to expose him.

One other similar comment, regarding docsedated's statement "I[f] you have lived in Bombay till you were 28 you would have a strong Indian accent": I'd rephrase that as "If you've lived in Bombay past early adolescence, you'll normally have a full-on Indian accent". From early adolescence to age 28 the accent isn't going to get any stronger, it's just going to stay the same.

[sheesh]

Sirob, how is the quality of girls in Switzerland or Basel in particular ?

I have just graduated from university and there seem to be attractive job opportunities for me in Switzerland. Of course, being a lover of thick blonde women, I'd rather move to Scandinavia, but unfortunately that is not in the cards for me in the nearer future.


The few Swiss girls I've met abroad where nothing to write home about looks wise. Especially no tits and ass, it seems, but my sample size is very small. Maybe you can give us an update. I know that the Swiss are a very closed society but being German, I'm used to it so this wouldn't be much of a problem for me, even if many Swiss do not seem to like their northern neighbours.

Could you perhaps give a comparison between Zurich and Basel ?

[bface]

I can't speak about Basel but Switzerland in general.

Swiss people are quite introverted, that's true. But it doesn't matter. The girls just won't give you any hints on how you are doing. Just keep doing your stuff, if she is still there she is interested. This is where most tourists get it wrong, they give up way too fast just because the girl is not showing interest. This has a lot to do with worrying about reputation etc. So isolate and you are good to go.

With the far right, even if you take the worst case scenario and you say that everyone that votes for those parties hates foreigners, you still have about half the population left who won't care/prefer you to locals.

Zurich is the hardest place in my opinion. Girls are cold and quite superficial on average. But who cares, they still put out at the end of the night if you don't walk away disgusted haha.

Lucerne for example is quite the opposite, people are a lot friendlier and might even approach you.

I have no personal experience, but from what I heard from people I met in the army it's more like Lucerne than Zurich.

So to sum it up. Be friendly, stick around the girls if logistics are good and isolate. As long as you don't depend on indicators of interest it will be the same as everywhere. And then when you are in another country you feel like the king of the world because you are not used to it anymore ;-)

Edit:
Quality of girls is average for Europe I would say. Not really bad, not really good. Think german/french/italian.

[sheesh]

Thanks bface. I don't know whether I will make the move to CH because I only hear negative things about the society and mentality. You can earn a lot of money but that's about it, it seems.

[Sirob]

Ill send you a pm with my thoughts in a couple of days.

(11-29-2011 06:12 PM)sheesh Wrote:  

Thanks bface. I don't know whether I will make the move to CH because I only hear negative things about the society and mentality. You can earn a lot of money but that's about it, it seems.

[nomadicdude]

You should just stop focusing on the fact that you're Indian. Just game chicks and whatever happens, happens. You are thinking about your Indian-ness too much.

Swiss chicks aren't easy... for anyone. It is just a more socially conservative/retarded culture so don't worry about it. I see Swiss chicks travelling all over the place and they never are the crazy ones getting wasted and fucking around.