[TheBulldozer]

@Ali I completely agree with the pushing yourself and reaping the rewards. That's why I'm so frustrated with my female compatriots. I look good, I dress well, I make cash, I've been places, I've done shit. When I look around, even in New York, I'm underwhelmed. I've become very indifferent about a lot of what I've experienced stateside these past few weeks.

Have things gotten worse? Have I grown/changed as a man? Have my experiences shaped me in ways that I'm struggling to grasp at the moment? The narrative is probably all of these things.

At this point, I'm taking my own thread off topic by rambling on about nothing in particular. But long story short, I want to date GREAT women. I don't know if I can find that in an American girl.

[Vitriol]

(09-07-2013 06:53 PM)worldwidetraveler Wrote:  

(09-07-2013 10:00 AM)Aliblahba Wrote:  

The more you push yourself, the bigger the rewards. That covers all aspects of life.

1. I suffered through some of the most dangerous jobs in the worst environments around the world. Now no job will present a challenge and employers know it, making me marketable worldwide.

2. Maintaining success w/ American women gave me access to quality girls in Europe. Not drunken slag in the bars, even though they were fun too. IF you can bang sober 8's here the world is your oyster.

3. Keeping valuable here leaves the door open to the U.S. I'm close to family and don't want to be torn between pussy and what is really important. As they get older I don't need to be a 20 hour flight away for some stank.

4. I like a challenge. American women present it but always going for the easy kill gets you nowhere in the long run. Stay sharp.

Sure, but then there is also this important law.

Noun1.law of diminishing returns - a law affirming that to continue after a certain level of performance has been reached will result in a decline in effectiveness

You're confusing wanting to deal with a situation versus being able to deal with a certain situation. The op never said he couldn't be successful with American women, he said he didn't want to deal with what it takes to be successful. That is a pretty big distinction to what you are talking about.

I am also close to my family. That doesn't mean I am going to sit around close to them waiting for something to go wrong so I can spring into action. I lost my grandfather when I was on the other side of the globe. He was like a second father to me. I actually woke up from a dream and knew he was dead. He died at about the same time as I had that dream. I called my family and they told me the news. I already knew. There wasn't anything I could have done by being there. He knew how I felt and I knew how he felt. He would have been the first one to tell me to go.

You can't live your life for others.

Life is too short. I don't want build up game over years for sorority cum dumpsters that I hate the minute after my balls are drained.

A couple recent bad experiences have me dead serious about being serious with foreign language and getting the fuck out in a window of a few years. American culture is nice for people who are really into television and care about what kind of car they drive, but when you don't take that seriously what's left?

[Vitriol]

This Canadian band had us beat...

[Akula]

(09-07-2013 03:43 AM)MaleDefined Wrote:  

I've said in previous posts that the perfect woman is The Forbidden Fruit, The Atlantis, The Library of Alexandria, what have you, and there are two incidences tonight that have fully defeated any sort of faith in a woman who speaks English as her first language. I don't need to get into them because they've been repeated and repulsed by 100 guys on this forum in a thousand different ways.

However, from living around the world, a few ideas came clear in my mind. The perfect woman cannot speak English as her first language. The Forbidden Fruit, the taste were all looking for cannot and does not speak English from birth. The conversation begins and ends at this fact. End of story. I denied, denied, and denied until it was too obvious. Our culture is diseased and I have no interest in catching it.

My pledge is to not date any woman whose first language is English for one year.

This was not a decision I made easily, conscious of the fact that I'm now back in America. Nor was this a decision I made without great disdain for English speaking women. I will go home with my dick in my hand many nights. I will go home frustrated many nights. However, after nights of Brazilian beauty, Romanian romanticism, and South East Asian submissiveness, I cannot; no I will not deal with an English speaking girl. I will not put in the effort to lay game on a fat 5, when I know I have put in the work necessary, across all facets of my life, to make love to beautiful women from around the world. I have now met a number of members on this forum, and I can say that you have the looks, game, and commitment to excellence that commands the presence of beautiful, feminine women. If we are selling ourselves short, then everyone is.

The only way to stop the disease of the Western woman is to cut yourself off. The unambitious, average Anglo woman is a succubus for men who have worked too hard and settled for too little. Even if my message reaches few, it's a few more women who have to rethink their reality about what it means to be a woman.

Join me. Stop dealing with women who leave you unhappy and unfulfilled. I'm done. I don't care what you think about my decision, but it's the only one. A key part of this forum is trying to create a reality that you previously thought could not, or would not exist for you. Break the rules.


If I break my own, break me.

Preach on brotha...hear you loud and clear. Have lived in Russia for almost 5 years and can never go back to US women won't happen. Even the worst women I've dated here are still normally better than practically every other girl I dated back home. Sad to say but the West is just a mess and continues to get worse.

I also had a pretty successful career and actually did ok with women in general back in NYC even when I was totally beta and looking for 'the One.' But I felt like I still had to 'date down' instead of 'up', at least looks wise. It really just a 'bizarro' anti-player numbers game over there and by that I mean there simply aren't enough attractive women percentage-wise to make it a 'level playing field at least as far as marriage and relationships go - the good looking ones have a massive advantage especially with divorce laws being so skewed against men. There's also zero social pressure for most American women to look good, act feminine and be a great spouse. If anything it's the opposite as they are constantly told 'they can have it all' and each and every one is a special little snowflake no matter how slutty or fat they are. I mean walk down the street where's the competition or role models for US women? Chr*st everytime you see a somewhat in shape woman on a billboard there's some kind of 'anti-sexist/women are being seen as objects' protest. They are fed bs 24-7 by the corrupt, feckless media about about how they are all 'victims' and how they should think about getting out of their marriage with no-fault divorce the minute problems start to arise. To boot, over 1/3 of them are over-medicated on some kind of anti-depressant or one thing or another, further making them less desirable (and more likely to go nuts at some point). And I think the pill, while good for the average player, has all sorts of side effects that Big Pharma won't tell them about too. Yeah I know that's controversial but come on something that completely re-sets your hormones and period for years on end has to have some kind of negative consequences - but go try and say that on the news and see if you don't get a sh*storm of attacks from Feminists, to whom the 'pill' is pretty much a sacred cow/symbol of freedom.

I grew up down South, know what those women can be like and let me tell you yes they are pretty and more family oriented but I would say almost every one of the really pretty ones either got fat, went crazy or were just waayyyy more trouble than they were worth. I'd still say the South is probably one of the better places to get a wife to raise kids, the women there are generally more feminine, and there are many pretty girls, but end of day you're beholden to her to not go batshit crazy, have post-partum depression or become a land-whale and thus trapping you in marriage. But sure there are exceptions just not enough IMO. In the US with marriage these days you're rolling the dice with fairly limited upside and massive downside.

[VincentVinturi]

The funny thing is, when you express your feelings about American women to your friends back home and how they stack up to say, Thai women, they get all bent out of shape.

I had a friend call me a misogynist and project all sorts of pseudo-freudian psychobabble on me because I told him how I *really* feel when I see an American girl walking down the street in Bangkok.

Pictures this: there was this tall white girl in the middle of a street packed with people. She was burrowing through the crowd in an apparent rush. She was wearing loud, multi-colored, baggy hippie/tourist clothing and tugging at her poor boyfriend's arm. She had on a mean scowl, contorting an otherwise pretty face.

She stopped in front of a couple with their baby stroller. They were trying to get by in the same narrow space as she and her boyfriend. She stops short, looks at them, and yells "Ex-CUSE Me!" and barrels right through them, with her embarrassed boyfriend in tow.

Naturally, I wanted to run after her and do some violent things to her and her boyfriend (for letting her act that way to begin with). Of course I didn't. But the impulse arose and what am I going to do? Pretend like I don't feel it?

I expressed as much to a friend back home and he called me a borderline psychotic. Sigh, how can you explain to a fish that it's surrounded by water?

[Midlands Man]

OP- your analysis is spot on, exactly the same in the UK

Was watching a sliming show on TV the other day with my Bulgarian girlfriend (been seeing her for over a year), basically it's was about a fat English woman, late 20s, blonde, 5ft 5, I think about 20+stone, trying to lose weight via a personal lifestyle coach/trainer. Anyway at the start of the show I told my girlfriend that even this "fat woman has value here in the UK" and that "she will probably have a boyfriend/husband"

My girlfriend said "no way / not possible" (given the state of the woman's appearance), anyway half way through the show they showed her husband who was slim and good looking. My girlfriend said that in Bulgaria, it would just not be possible for such a woman to find a husband.

The bottom line is that the supply of attractive women is so low in the Anglosphere, that the dating market favours women on every level. The amount of chubby women I see with attractive / in shape men in my town is everywhere, says its all.

Tough times indeed for western men.

[Aliblahba]

I learned a valuable lesson watching American guys in Japan. It was the 90's and things were still good, but coming to a close. Dudes went from getting no pussy stateside to banging average J-girls, and stayed. Over time a lot of them got sloppy, and as it became harder to work over there, they returned to the U.S. to where their prospects with women dried up.

I realized then it was important to stay on top of things, and as I've traveled to easier places, I push myself there for better quality, which keeps me sharp here.

As far as long term end game, bringing a poor girl from another country is a disaster in itself. When guys leave the U.S. and praise women in poor countries abroad, I cringe. If I was looking for a suitable bride, she's gonna come from the U.S., W. Europe, Japan, or from affluent families in lesser industrialized nations. But again, it comes down to having the skills to attract that level of girl, and if you can't do it here, you're not gonna do it somewhere else. Quality is quality across the board.

[worldwidetraveler]

(09-09-2013 11:48 AM)Aliblahba Wrote:  

As far as long term end game, bringing a poor girl from another country is a disaster in itself. When guys leave the U.S. and praise women in poor countries abroad, I cringe. If I was looking for a suitable bride, she's gonna come from the U.S., W. Europe, Japan, or from affluent families in lesser industrialized nations. But again, it comes down to having the skills to attract that level of girl, and if you can't do it here, you're not gonna do it somewhere else. Quality is quality across the board.

Ali, you been married before? If not, why not get back to us after you put your theory to the test.

[Aliblahba]

Never been married, but I've seen the full spectrum. No fucking way will I bring a barrio girl back home. Quality girls don't want to come here anyways, cause they got it good where they are, which give you access to residency and work in that country.

The more you travel, the more you see the big picture, that's why I don't completely discount American women. I see much worse out there. Guys new to travel get that "new car smell", and stay caught up in it for awhile. It's usually the first time they've had access to reasonably attractive feminine females. Over time when you stay alert, the realization that women are all basically the same sets in.

[Sp5]

(09-09-2013 11:48 AM)Aliblahba Wrote:  

I learned a valuable lesson watching American guys in Japan. It was the 90's and things were still good, but coming to a close. Dudes went from getting no pussy stateside to banging average J-girls, and stayed. Over time a lot of them got sloppy, and as it became harder to work over there, they returned to the U.S. to where their prospects with women dried up.

I realized then it was important to stay on top of things, and as I've traveled to easier places, I push myself there for better quality, which keeps me sharp here.

As far as long term end game, bringing a poor girl from another country is a disaster in itself. When guys leave the U.S. and praise women in poor countries abroad, I cringe. If I was looking for a suitable bride, she's gonna come from the U.S., W. Europe, Japan, or from affluent families in lesser industrialized nations. But again, it comes down to having the skills to attract that level of girl, and if you can't do it here, you're not gonna do it somewhere else. Quality is quality across the board.

This is good advice on my situation. First, I am trying to up my quality, but I recognize the inherent limitations of being 57, so I am looking for the best 35 year old I can get. So far, I'm stuck in the 40 - 50 range and a lot of 5's at that.

Second, I don't even know where I am going to live, but know that a lot of women who would be sweet living with in the Philippines, Thailand, or Colombia would become sour in the USA.

Third, the USA is a pretty good place, so I would not rule out a high-value older woman if I decide to stay here.

[worldwidetraveler]

(09-09-2013 12:08 PM)Aliblahba Wrote:  

Never been married, but I've seen the full spectrum. No fucking way will I bring a barrio girl back home. Quality girls don't want to come here anyways, cause they got it good where they are, which give you access to residency and work in that country.

The more you travel, the more you see the big picture, that's why I don't completely discount American women. I see much worse out there. Guys new to travel get that "new car smell", and stay caught up in it for awhile. It's usually the first time they've had access to reasonably attractive feminine females. Over time when you stay alert, the realization that women are all basically the same sets in.

I hear ya. Most of my experiences with American women have been good. You get the occasional crazy bitch but that just means great sex. heh

Marriage is a different beast. I don't care where she comes from.

A couple of things that will probably take me abroad again.

Saving massive cash on taxes by relocating my business.

Laws designed to inflict pain on men. I don't think some of my past girlfriends would ever think about going the route we see on this forum, but that still doesn't mean they couldn't.

I have had enough experience dealing with this type of nonsense for me to not want to take a chance.

Sometimes it takes time to figure out the quality of a person. In that time, they can royally fuck you up. The more high value you are, the bigger the target.

[Aliblahba]

For guys looking at marrying into a different culture, plan on spending a year in said country to fully understand it. In that time also you should be climbing the social ladder for quality women. Most guys don't have that luxury and force it. That's when everything goes downhill. And yeah, gold digging bitches from overseas can be worse than American women. They know about the I-785 form. This gives them more power than the women here.

I saw a lot of guys in the ME let the "fog of fur" get them. It was a knee jerk reaction and they marry quick. 8 years later they are still broke, as they for some reason didn't know that marrying a poor girl from a poor country means you are responsible for their family. All white dues btw. Lol. Ethiopian girls are the white guys kriptonite over there.

[Mumbojumbo]

I've lived in 12+ countries and seriously the US isn't that bad. The cool cities like LA, SF, NY and Miami have tons of beautiful, often foreign born girls. They have more attitude as anywhere else but are also more interesting than the average say Malaysian girl. I actually look forward to my couple of months in the US every year.

I think it's all about calibrate, calibrate, calibrate and I don't buy into the negative that Roosh and others are preaching about US girls. Find the right girls, find a way to attract them and get laid. That works in the US as good as anywhere...

[jariel]

(09-09-2013 01:05 PM)Mumbojumbo Wrote:  

I think it's all about calibrate, calibrate, calibrate and I don't buy into the negative that Roosh and others are preaching about US girls.

A lot of those guys live in places like D.C., and because they're unhappy with their local scene and the women that are available to them, they make blanket statements like "American women suck".

The game is rough, but as you've stated, I don't hear guys from Atlanta, L.A., Miami, etc. echoing the same sentiment. Miami does have a lot of foreign-born women, but there are also a lot of NY/NJ transplants here as well, aka American women.

I go out 4-5 nights a week here, and I see dudes with these American women all the time. They seem happy with their situations, and they don't appear to be guys who know anything about "game" or the "Manosphere".

As far as I'm concerned, if you don't like the women where you are, then do what was Roosh has done, and put your money where your mouth is; move out of the country and find your women elsewhere.

[TheBulldozer]

I do agree on the fact that there are many high value foreign women in large American cities. However, I've found translating the existence of these women into anything more than the fact that they exist in these places to be difficult. Random approaches with foreign women via day or night, may lead to dates or even an occasional bang, but never anything longer term or more meaningful. I can't make it past bang 1 or 2, if I even get that far from cold approaching foreign girls here in NYC.

The only solution I've found thus far in terms of having high quality foreign girlfriends while in America is to get inside their social circle. Now you may think that isn't difficult, but my experience tells me differently. Most foreigners, especially those from more conservative societies seek out and spend significant time with other people from their country who happen to be living in the same city. I've had three foreign girlfriends over the past five or six years, and all three of them came from being vouched for, and let into the social circle by a male friend who belonged to that social circle.

Excellent cold approach game has not yielded me the same results that decent social circle game when it comes to foreign women. I feel strongly about needing to get into a foreign social circle because my excellent cold approach game works better than decent social circle game on American girls. This proves to me at least that cold approaches to foreign women are not effective ways of meeting them. An American girl drips when I have the balls to walk up and crack some hard hitting wit on her. A foreign girl I find becomes a bit apprehensive in this situation.

[speakeasy]

(09-08-2013 11:54 AM)Akula Wrote:  

I grew up down South, know what those women can be like and let me tell you yes they are pretty and more family oriented but I would say almost every one of the really pretty ones either got fat, went crazy or were just waayyyy more trouble than they were worth. I'd still say the South is probably one of the better places to get a wife to raise kids, the women there are generally more feminine, and there are many pretty girls, but end of day you're beholden to her to not go batshit crazy, have post-partum depression or become a land-whale and thus trapping you in marriage. But sure there are exceptions just not enough IMO. In the US with marriage these days you're rolling the dice with fairly limited upside and massive downside.

Huh? Well I've lived both in Tennessee and Georgia and I don't see what the hype about southern women is. I found the women overall not that attractive, at least not more attractive than what I'm used to seeing in L.A. And the south is the fattest part of the country. The women may be more old school in some ways, but a lot of religious bible-thumping baggage tends to come along with that, as well as a lot more bigotry.

[Samseau]

(09-09-2013 03:48 PM)speakeasy Wrote:  

(09-08-2013 11:54 AM)Akula Wrote:  

I grew up down South, know what those women can be like and let me tell you yes they are pretty and more family oriented but I would say almost every one of the really pretty ones either got fat, went crazy or were just waayyyy more trouble than they were worth. I'd still say the South is probably one of the better places to get a wife to raise kids, the women there are generally more feminine, and there are many pretty girls, but end of day you're beholden to her to not go batshit crazy, have post-partum depression or become a land-whale and thus trapping you in marriage. But sure there are exceptions just not enough IMO. In the US with marriage these days you're rolling the dice with fairly limited upside and massive downside.

Huh? Well I've lived both in Tennessee and Georgia and I don't see what the hype about southern women is. I found the women overall not that attractive, at least not more attractive than what I'm used to seeing in L.A. And the south is the fattest part of the country. The women may be more old school in some ways, but a lot of religious bible-thumping baggage tends to come along with that, as well as a lot more bigotry.

Yes. Fatness is the major downside to the south. People are friendlier but fatter.

[Aliblahba]

Speaking of the South, where would you put this gal on the 1-10 scale?

http://www.pof.com/viewprofile.aspx?profile_id=58861271


Obesity might be a problem here in Ole' Dixie, but there are more of the above running around than any of us can possibly shake a stick at.

[Samseau]

^ She's in the top 10% of women = she's a 7

[Aliblahba]

7 is about right. I'd go with an 8 if she jumped up and down on the bed in panties and those boots.

During the Athens meetup I saw around 20 of those piling out of a pickup truck. The disparity of men here is getting worse. Girls have to choose from:

Spoiled frat boys
Rednecks
Ex cons
IRT's
Fat asses
Dope heads

That's about 95% of the demographic.

They don't know how to act when encountering a guy with their shit together. Again, it is a players market here. Women have had no choice but to adjust with dating down and higher bitch shields. Some of these girls are sweet as honey, and become submissive around real men.

[speakeasy]

...

[Hencredible Casanova]

(09-09-2013 05:53 PM)Aliblahba Wrote:  

Women have had no choice but to adjust with dating down and higher bitch shields. Some of these girls are sweet as honey, and become submissive around real men.

I take that to mean that social circle/reputation counts for a lot for those southern belles? ONS culture lacking?

[YaManBT]

So, from what I have gathered, there is a higher quantity of pussy to be had with Anglo women, but a higher quality to be had with non-Anglo women.

[Travesty]

(09-09-2013 09:48 PM)YaManBT Wrote:  

So, from what I have gathered, there is a higher quantity of pussy to be had with Anglo women, but a higher quality to be had with non-Anglo women.

American 6's are extremely easy and extremely plentiful, but still most have shit attitudes. American 7+'s are rare compared to many other countries. Top American girls are harder to impress, harder to lock down because they have sky high value. This is why so many forum members preach making more $ if you stay in America and frequent high class venues and cities to access these girls.

Abroad just has more 7+'s in general and without the attitude. Still need logistics and in many cases language skills to pull well.

[Samseau]

(09-09-2013 06:27 PM)speakeasy Wrote:  

(09-09-2013 05:30 PM)Samseau Wrote:  

^ She's in the top 10% of women = she's a 7

With her combination of perfect body, youth and nice girl next door face, she's a solid 8 in my book. You will find some girls like this in Nashville, but they are not the norm. You'll see way more fat white trash girls than these succulent southern belles. I think your best bet is the SEC campuses.

Btw, if a girl is in the top 10% of women, shouldn't that make her a 9? Assuming that women are normed on 5 where an absolute 5 would be more attractive than 50% of women.

I rank on bellcurve -

(This is for western women due to obesity, skrillex, tatoos, and other ugly side effects of Western culture)
5 = top 45%
6 = top 25%
7 = top 90%
8 = top 97%
9 = top 99%
10 = top 99.99%

It makes the most sense. Phrase it in words and you'll see.

A 6 is one out of every four women.
A 7 is one out of every ten women.
An 8 is one out of every thirty-three (roughly) women.
A 9 is one out of every hundred women.
A 10 is one out of every ten-thousand women.

For foreign women:

5 = top 50%
6 = top 33%
7 = top 15%
8 = top 95%
9 = top 98%
10 = top 99.9%