[Nomad77]

For as long as I can remember I drove Audi's. I like the cars and they became part of my identity: who I was - I was an Audi man. Recently, because of the high gas prices and greater environmental consciousness I started driving a little Toyota more and more. At first the Toyota wasn't as smooth, quiet, or fun to drive but after awhile I got use to it. It did the job, got me from here to there. Every once in awhile I would drive the Audi just so it got some use. But after awhile a funny thing started to happen. I found, I didn't enjoy driving the Audi as much as I use to. I didn't feel the same pride as I did driving it before and it took me awhile to figure out why. A big part of my enjoyment of the Audi was that it validated my identity. It told the world what kind of man I was: an Audi man. But somewhere along the way, I had stop caring about this, it had ceased to be a part of my identity. I didn't need it anymore to validate who I am.

At first, I thought I would feel bad but strangely I felt happier. I felt more free somehow, like a burden had been lifted off of me and I could see more of myself. The more "things" we identity with, the more our true selves become hidden behind them. The watches, the clothes, the cars, the homes, and yes, even our computers and phones, only serves to hide our true selves not only from the world BUT also from ourselves. When we stop identifying with "things", when we stop "defining" ourselves by the "things" we own - we come to know our true selves and what really makes us happy.

There is still a part of me that is upset about the Audi situation - but I am sure it will get over it - it's called my ego

PS Over the years I have been removing a lot of things from my life and in turn my identity. The Audi was the last to go along, with it's custom audio system

[Tail Gunner]

(09-06-2013 02:36 PM)Nomad77 Wrote:  

PS Over the years I have been removing a lot of things from my life and in turn my identity. The Audi was the last to go along, with it's custom audio system

I hear you. I was the same way with high quality watches. I own a number of classic Patek Philippe watches and I always enjoyed having one on my wrist. It was a part of my identity. Now they all sit in a safe deposit box.

Now my goal is to own absolutely nothing and to travel the world as a PT (Perpetual Traveler). That is how I discovered this forum. I am about a year away from that goal, so I enjoy following Roosh's travels.

Material possessions no longer mean much to me. I will miss my firearms, because they represent badges of freedom. As the U.S. continues to evolve into a burgeoning police state, I have concluded that much more freedom is available as a PT. No jurisdiction really has a legal claim upon you when you move from place-to-place every three months. They just treat you as a tourist!

When you do not have money, the idea of material possessions means everything. Once you have money and gain those material possessions, it can be a real letdown. I now see materialism as a phase that well-grounded people eventually outgrow.

[Nomad77]

Traveling is nice but personally I have grown tired of it too. Now, my goal is just to live a part of the year in different places, about 3 - 4 months on each continent: South America, Europe, Asia, US (1 month). Sort of like what Roosh is doing.

[RexImperator]

I agree with this. I think all forms of external identification serve as barriers to being our true selves. With material objects, the danger is that the stuff ends up owning you instead of the other way around. It's all junk in the end anyway. Everything is subject to the same inevitable rot, corrosion, and decay.

To take things a bit further, I think this can even apply to nonmaterial concepts and ideas as well.

[LeBeau]

[Dr. Howard]

(09-06-2013 02:36 PM)Nomad77 Wrote:  

For as long as I can remember I drove Audi's. I like the cars and they became part of my identity: who I was - I was an Audi man. Recently, because of the high gas prices and greater environmental consciousness I started driving a little Toyota more and more. At first the Toyota wasn't as smooth, quiet, or fun to drive but after awhile I got use to it. It did the job, got me from here to there. Every once in awhile I would drive the Audi just so it got some use. But after awhile a funny thing started to happen. I found, I didn't enjoy driving the Audi as much as I use to. I didn't feel the same pride as I did driving it before and it took me awhile to figure out why. A big part of my enjoyment of the Audi was that it validated my identity. It told the world what kind of man I was: an Audi man. But somewhere along the way, I had stop caring about this, it had ceased to be a part of my identity. I didn't need it anymore to validate who I am.

At first, I thought I would feel bad but strangely I felt happier. I felt more free somehow, like a burden had been lifted off of me and I could see more of myself. The more "things" we identity with, the more our true selves become hidden behind them. The watches, the clothes, the cars, the homes, and yes, even our computers and phones, only serves to hide our true selves not only from the world BUT also from ourselves. When we stop identifying with "things", when we stop "defining" ourselves by the "things" we own - we come to know our true selves and what really makes us happy.

There is still a part of me that is upset about the Audi situation - but I am sure it will get over it - it's called my ego

PS Over the years I have been removing a lot of things from my life and in turn my identity. The Audi was the last to go along, with it's custom audio system

Good perspective, especially with cars, though i think everyone benefits if they can have an 'audi' or 'evo' or whatever car period as it gets it out of your system. I feel much more at ease driving a normal car than my evo. If someone even farts on the evo something will break or scratch on it whereas it someone launches a grocery cart into the back of the honda I will get over it. I can't park the evo at a mall or I come outside to kids lurking/hovering around it like its a girl in bikini and I cringe when I have to go over broken pavement or through a construction zone. The honda will get shot through tall grass if need be and I don't care.

That being said, if I would do it over again I would say to someone...lease your dream car for a year or two, give it back and get it out of your system.

Otherwise, get it out of your system and then buy one and become a hobby mechanic and/or weekend racer to really enjoy it.

[Nomad77]

True, it's a process you have to go through. Before the Audi's it was the Mustang GT.

[Grizzly]

(09-06-2013 02:36 PM)Nomad77 Wrote:  

But somewhere along the way, I had stop caring about this, it had ceased to be a part of my identity. I didn't need it anymore to validate who I am.

/snip/

When we stop identifying with "things", when we stop "defining" ourselves by the "things" we own - we come to know our true selves and what really makes us happy.

Absolutely! A thing is just a thing. Man has always known that things cannot make one truly happy, but we still ignore the long term happiness of good relationships and personal achievements for the immediate rush of obtaining that new thing, and the validation from our family and friends for having that cool new thing.

Incidentally, I think you've hit upon a source of the West's economic troubles. A huge part of our economy is based around four things:

1. Using your credit card to buy truckloads of crap you didn't know you needed or wanted until you saw an ad on TV, and making minimum payments @ 15% or 20% interest for the next several years, and accepting credit card offers in the mail so you can transfer the balance at 5% and then get additional truckloads of crap at 15%.

2. At least here in the U.S.: taking on a half million dollars of debt to buy a house, then going into another quarter MD of debt to replace the countertops, floors, etc. as they become outdated over the next 20 or 30 years, and then ANOTHER $100K of debt MINIMUM for repairs over the same time period, then reselling the house but probably at a loss because of 30 years of inflation.

3. Going $30-$60k into debt for the next few years to buy a car with fancy space-age options you will never notice or appreciate, then trading in THAT car a year after the loan ends, for another loan on a newer car.

4. Buying psych meds to suppress the apprehension that doing #1, #2, and #3 is fucking insane.

The last couple years of deleveraging has been hurting the economy because people are doing #1, #2, and #3 a whole lot less then they used to (but probably ramping up #4).

Sadly, I doubt most people will see past the things like you did, but just indebt themselves again the next chance they get.

[Nomad77]

An accurate description of the US economy and one that's being exported to the rest of the world.

[Grizzly]

(09-06-2013 02:36 PM)Nomad77 Wrote:  

But somewhere along the way, I had stop caring about this, it had ceased to be a part of my identity. I didn't need it anymore to validate who I am.

/snip/

When we stop identifying with "things", when we stop "defining" ourselves by the "things" we own - we come to know our true selves and what really makes us happy.

Absolutely! A thing is just a thing. Man has always known that things cannot make one truly happy, but we still ignore the long term happiness of good relationships and personal achievements for the immediate rush of obtaining that new thing, and the validation from our family and friends for having that cool new thing.

Incidentally, I think you've hit upon a source of the West's economic troubles. A huge part of our economy is based around four things:

1. Using your credit card to buy truckloads of crap you didn't know you needed or wanted until you saw an ad on TV, and making minimum payments @ 15% or 20% interest for the next several years, and accepting credit card offers in the mail so you can transfer the balance at 5% and then get additional truckloads of crap at 15%.

2. At least here in the U.S.: taking on a half million dollars of debt to buy a house, then going into another quarter MD of debt to replace the countertops, floors, etc. as they become outdated over the next 20 or 30 years, and then ANOTHER $100K of debt MINIMUM for repairs over the same time period, then reselling the house but probably at a loss because of 30 years of inflation.

3. Going $30-$60k into debt for the next few years to buy a car with fancy space-age options you will never notice or appreciate, then trading in THAT car a year after the loan ends, for another loan on a newer car.

4. Buying psych meds to suppress the apprehension that doing #1, #2, and #3 is fucking insane.

The last couple years of deleveraging has been hurting the economy because people are doing #1, #2, and #3 a whole lot less then they used to (but probably ramping up #4).

Sadly, I doubt most people will see past the things like you did, but just indebt themselves again the next chance they get.

[Kaizen]

Solid Post.

I get caught up with material things all the time. It's very true that 'the things you own end up owing you'. So many items I was hell bent on purchasing ended up being a throne in my side-regretted the purchase, saw something better, it got damaged etc etc.

Like everything it's a balance. I don't' want to be an ascetic either and dressing like Gandhi with a loin cloth. But this is a good reminder all this stuff is frivolous. Its important to look good and have some basic gear, but over the top stuff often isn't worth it.

[Grizzly]

Sorry about the double post, I think it somehow got posted twice when I clicked the back button on my browser.

[Nomad77]

@bigxxx Right, I am not saying hey don't own anything what I am saying is don't allow things to define you who and what you are. If you find yourself feeling somehow less of person because you don't have something with you then that thing is define who you are. I, for example, use to feel less of man somehow if I took out a girl without my Audi.

[Tail Gunner]

(09-07-2013 01:03 PM)Grizzly Wrote:  

4. Buying psych meds to suppress the apprehension that doing #1, #2, and #3 is fucking insane.

LMAO!

I would not be surprised if there is some conspiracy between rampant consumerism and the pharmaceutical industry!

[EasyMoney]

I've never felt that materialism was inherently bad, what gets people into trouble is what you're pointing out: that materialism + low self esteem = all sorts of bad results.

I'm materialistic in that I like material things. I love nice clothes, fast cars, expensive watches, nice restaurants, high end firearms, custom shop gibson guitars, and a bunch of other shit.

But I'm smart about my purchases. I find expensive things used, and I buy them second hand. I don't have to have it immediately. I never take on any debt to buy an item I'm lusting after. I could sell almost all of my nice posessions tomorrow for what i paid for them, and even make money on them. I own them; they do not own me.

There's nothing inherently bad about materialism - we live in the material world. These things provide entertainment, and comfort - and theres nothing wrong with that. It's kind of like drugs - if you can handle your high like a mature adult it'll never be a problem. But if you have very little state control or underlying problems with addiction and other emotional issues, you're gonna slide down that hill into the shitter - it's only a matter of time.

If you have the discipline to live within your means and not get carried away with your material desires, materialism can look good on you.

[Tail Gunner]

(09-07-2013 08:03 PM)EasyMoney Wrote:  

I've never felt that materialism was inherently bad, what gets people into trouble is what you're pointing out: that materialism + low self esteem = all sorts of bad results.

I'm materialistic in that I like material things. I love nice clothes, fast cars, expensive watches, nice restaurants, high end firearms, custom shop gibson guitars, and a bunch of other shit.

But I'm smart about my purchases. I find expensive things used, and I buy them second hand. I don't have to have it immediately. I never take on any debt to buy an item I'm lusting after. I could sell almost all of my nice posessions tomorrow for what i paid for them, and even make money on them. I own them; they do not own me.

I cannot argue with any of that. If you do want material possessions, that is exactly the way to operate. To provide one example, after the economic crash even classic Rolex watches lost substantial value at the major auction houses. But I did not lose a dime on my Patek Philippe watches, because PP is the premier watch company in the world.

Rolex makes more watches in one year than PP has produced since its founding in 1851. Just as importantly, I have never purchased a watch without a built-in profit. I bought the classic models that are no longer produced (nothing new). So I bought appreciating assets rather than depreciating assets. Similarly, I have never purchased a new vehicle, because they lose substantial value after they leave the lot.

So I have already traveled that road and found it lacking. Like anything else, it is a life choice. There is no correct answer. My focus has now shifted from material possessions to increased freedom. You would be surprised how material possessions can tie you down, both mentally and physically.