[Sonsowey]

I know there are some folks here who've lived and worked in the Gulf. Good pay but rather uptight societies.

I have heard from numerous sources that for Westerners it's basically impossible to make "friends" with locals in Saudi, Qatar, etc.

I am always interested in learning langauges when I travel, especially a huge international language like Arabic. I always try to learn socially, by making friends and trying to live my life in the language as much as possible.

In Saudi, Qatar, and other places like this, is it really possible to become involved in the social lives of locals?

[Aliblahba]

You can learn Arabic (speaking) from the OFW's there. Making friends with the locals depends on the country, your social status, ect. Not impossible as not all Arabs are rich. I met plenty that liked hanging out with Americans, and have sat and drank coffee with Sheikhs.

[Sp5]

I looked into this, and if you're looking at really learning Arabic in the Gulf, especially with any schooling, the best option seems to be Oman.

Less foreign workers, more traditional, more full-time schools in Oman. Dubai or Abu Dhabi would not be good places to learn Arabic; they're better places to meet Filipinas. Same with Bahrain and Qatar. Saudi is not easy to get into: restrictive visa conditions. Kuwait also has some visa issues.

Oman has several schools, one is in Buraimi, right across the border from Al Ain in the UAE, if you wanted to take a weekend break in Dubai by bus.

Yemen has plenty of schools, and is cheap to live in, but it's a bit dodgy right now for westerners.

I agree with ABB's comment above - it's not particularly hard to make friends in these countries. You can hang out at a coffeehouse during a big football match and talk about it, for example. Hotel lobbies and bars (where they have bars) are other places. In some countries the number of locals is small relative to foreign workers, so that is the main problem.

[Sonsowey]

Sp5 thanks for the info but I'm not looking to go to the Gulf specifically to learn Arabic. For instance, a place with more foreign workers would probably be a plus for me considering that I'm also not trying to be celibate and I enjoy meeting people from around the world.

I am considering working in the Gulf primarily for money's sake (duh) and would make my decision about where to go based on a combination of factors, but I wouldn't be going specifically to enroll in a school. I would have to find a place that offered a good job and had reasonable lifestyle options, and then just find some classes on the side. I'm sure that basically anywhere that would be an attractive option to work will have Arabic lesson availability.

I'm very self-motivated with language learning, and would do self-study like Pimsleur and such on my own, so my real concern is finding people to talk with and build a social life with.

(09-01-2013 10:40 PM)Aliblahba Wrote:  

You can learn Arabic (speaking) from the OFW's there. Making friends with the locals depends on the country, your social status, ect. Not impossible as not all Arabs are rich. I met plenty that liked hanging out with Americans, and have sat and drank coffee with Sheikhs.

OFWs?

Good to hear that you can be social with people there.

Which countries did you guys feel offer the best "lifestyle" options for a 1 year stay? Including easy travel to more "liberal" environments and little enclaves of such within their borders?

Basically I'm not trying to be celibate, of course, but all other resources I've found on these countries just stress the harsh punishments for being seen with a woman in public etc.

Hell, maybe I should just go to Dubai and forget about Arabic and rack up filipina notches...

[Sp5]

Sheikh Maktoum, the Emir of Dubai, recently made it a goal to have more Arabic language study in Dubai.

So maybe that's having an effect. There are evening classes in Arabic in Dubai and Abu Dhabi.

Actually, between Abu Dhabi and Dubai, I prefer Abu Dhabi. Kind of a more funky, laid back vibe in AD, especially in the "downtown."

Dubai is all glitz and apparent freedom, but the iron fist under the velvet glove. You know, when you get a resident card in Dubai, there's an RFID chip in it. If you jaywalk, it's detected and you get an automatic fine. You can't leave the UAE without paying the fine. These are all of Snowden's fears put into operation.

[Sonsowey]

Reading a little about Abu Dhabi, it seems that women are allowed to be in public, uncovered, and basically do whatever they want. Is it fair to say that in Abu Dhabi, you can game girls? You can go out on dates, you can meet people at bars, you can be out in public with a woman who isn't your wife, you can take girls back to your place, etc?

[Teedub]

Those countries may seem 'open' and what not, but unless you're part of the elite, I wouldn't want to live there. They're extremely restrictive, and no you can't just bring girls back and you can't go on dates etc. Unless you are explicitly not on a date' anyway. No holding hands or anything.

[Sonsowey]

Teedub have you been to Abu Dhabi? I am very curious to hear on the ground reports.

[Teedub]

I personally haven't been to Dubai, Saudi or anywhere in the Mid East... However I have a few friends who have. One Muslim (pretty strict, doesn't drink etc) friend of mine was treated pretty poorly in Saudi due to very minor discrepancies in his prayer routine. Which shocked me. The guy has two degrees and was on a very high salary, but someone grassed him up to the religious police. It sounds crazy, but it's absolutely true.

In terms of 'Western' people I know, one of my best mates and his girlfriend were told off by the police in Dubai for holding hands at the airport, however were allowed to stay together in a hotel. It was an American resort, and they are basically havens within those countries, where alcohol is allowed and stuff.

Abu Dhabi, according to a group of my friends who work in Dubai is a more conservative/traditional version of Dubai. It's a bigger power in the region, and the capital of the UAE. However, whereas Dubai has sought to be an international destination, Abu Dhabi has looked toward becoming a holiday destination of other Middle Easterners (specifically Arabs, not Lebanese etc) and is therefore more traditionally Muslim. I just wouldn't fancy living in any of those places. I'd go on holiday there, but never live there permanently. It's ironic really, as a lot of the royals and elites there aren't religious at all, they drink, and they fuck women when they go abroad etc - Yet expect the locals, and ex-pats (to a lesser extent - although punishments can be more severe to 'set a standard') to abide by these restrictive archaic religious laws.

[...]

Why not learn Arabic in a place like Morocco or Lebanon instead of some theocratic shithole in the Gulf?

[Teedub]

(09-02-2013 08:17 AM)... Wrote:  

Why not learn Arabic in a place like Morocco or Lebanon instead of some theocratic shithole in the Gulf?

They're not shitholes economically or aesthetically, but I get you.

[Sp5]

(09-02-2013 01:13 AM)Sonsowey Wrote:  

Reading a little about Abu Dhabi, it seems that women are allowed to be in public, uncovered, and basically do whatever they want. Is it fair to say that in Abu Dhabi, you can game girls? You can go out on dates, you can meet people at bars, you can be out in public with a woman who isn't your wife, you can take girls back to your place, etc?

Yes, you can do all of that, although fornication is more-than-technically illegal, so if things go bad (screaming argument with girl in your room that attracts the police) you can be arrested, imprisoned for a short time, and deported. Some hotels might hassle you bringing a girl in, find one with a lobby with restaurants and bars and it won't be a problem.

It's easy to go to malls, make approaches (be a little discreet as to who you approach, NOT locals with hijabs and abayas). You can also find dates on Tagged or Badoo very easily. I've heard that Bluetooth is often used by the locals (Emiratis) in malls to meet the opposite sex, I've never tried it.

There is a lot of hypocrisy about sex and alcohol. Technically, you're supposed to have a license to consume alcohol, but nobody checks in the bars. But if you drive drunk, or get drunk and disorderly, it is an issue. Same with sex. Dubai and Abu Dhabi are full of whores, but if you and your girlfriend get into a beef or step out of line, you can be arrested for fornication. No PDAs, either.

You can get a flavor of the place by reading the courts section in the Gulf News: http://gulfnews.com/news/gulf/uae/courts

[Cattle Rustler]

So from what I've read...it's a poosy paradise for locals who in addition to poosy get good gov't jobs and welfare. However, it's a hypocritical bureaucratic hell for foreigners. Fun to say hi, but boring to live in.

[Sonsowey]

(09-02-2013 08:17 AM)... Wrote:  

Why not learn Arabic in a place like Morocco or Lebanon instead of some theocratic shithole in the Gulf?

$$$

Again I'm not going to the Gulf to learn Arabic.

I would be going to the Gulf to make money.

While I'm there I would like to learn Arabic, because it's a great opportunity.

But I wouldn't be going anywhere "just" to learn Arabic.

[Sonsowey]

(09-02-2013 11:50 PM)Sp5 Wrote:  

(09-02-2013 01:13 AM)Sonsowey Wrote:  

Reading a little about Abu Dhabi, it seems that women are allowed to be in public, uncovered, and basically do whatever they want. Is it fair to say that in Abu Dhabi, you can game girls? You can go out on dates, you can meet people at bars, you can be out in public with a woman who isn't your wife, you can take girls back to your place, etc?

Yes, you can do all of that, although fornication is more-than-technically illegal, so if things go bad (screaming argument with girl in your room that attracts the police) you can be arrested, imprisoned for a short time, and deported. Some hotels might hassle you bringing a girl in, find one with a lobby with restaurants and bars and it won't be a problem.

It's easy to go to malls, make approaches (be a little discreet as to who you approach, NOT locals with hijabs and abayas). You can also find dates on Tagged or Badoo very easily. I've heard that Bluetooth is often used by the locals (Emiratis) in malls to meet the opposite sex, I've never tried it.

There is a lot of hypocrisy about sex and alcohol. Technically, you're supposed to have a license to consume alcohol, but nobody checks in the bars. But if you drive drunk, or get drunk and disorderly, it is an issue. Same with sex. Dubai and Abu Dhabi are full of whores, but if you and your girlfriend get into a beef or step out of line, you can be arrested for fornication. No PDAs, either.

You can get a flavor of the place by reading the courts section in the Gulf News: http://gulfnews.com/news/gulf/uae/courts

Thanks SP5.

This sounds ridiculous. Like being in high school and getting grounded by your uptight parents

http://gulfnews.com/news/gulf/uae/courts...-1.1217432

Dubai: A 31-year-old banker and her 19-year-old colleague have been given a one-month sentence each after they were caught kissing in a tinted car behind a mosque in Al Muhaisna.

An Omani man was said to have spotted the Emirati woman’s car with its engine on and parked suspiciously between two trucks.

The man claimed that he saw a couple clutching intimately to each other but he doubted that they were having sex. He called the police.

Prosecutors charged the Emirati woman and her fellow countryman with kissing inside the car on January 21.

Insh'allah

[Sonsowey]

http://gulfnews.com/news/gulf/uae/courts...-1.1208108

"Dubai: A student and a restaurant manager have been jailed for life for possessing marijuana for trading purposes and with the purpose of providing it to others.

The Dubai Court of First Instance convicted the 23-year-old Australian student, F.F., and the 34-year-old British restaurant manager, M.S., of possessing 4.1 grams of marijuana for trading purposes."


Jesus...

[Sp5]

(09-03-2013 12:23 AM)Sonsowey Wrote:  

http://gulfnews.com/news/gulf/uae/courts...-1.1208108

"Dubai: A student and a restaurant manager have been jailed for life for possessing marijuana for trading purposes and with the purpose of providing it to others.

The Dubai Court of First Instance convicted the 23-year-old Australian student, F.F., and the 34-year-old British restaurant manager, M.S., of possessing 4.1 grams of marijuana for trading purposes."


Jesus...

As I said, the iron fist within the velvet glove.

I bet they get out in a few months, though, and get on an episode of "Locked (Banged) Up Abroad." The diplomats will arrange a quiet release and deportation. Unpleasant, in any event.

I'm going to be there in a few days for a couple of days - I'm paranoid to say exactly when - they're watching!

The Kuwaiti newspapers are also amusing:
http://news.kuwaittimes.net/category/kuwait/crime/

http://www.arabtimesonline.com/CategoryD...spx?cid=26

[tomtud]

The gulf is not recommended if you want to learn Arabic. Housing is ridiculously expensive. The call to prayer in certain neighbourhoods is going to wake you up at 4 am at times. I can go on and on.................

Lebanon, Tunisia, morocco etc. I'd go to before the gulf.

[Hencredible Casanova]

Yemen is the best place to learn Arabic from a financial standpoint. Lessons are cheap as is the cost of living. The country has a lot of internal political turmoil, and is a shithole aesthetically, but you'd be surprised to learn how many westerners are there right now, from backpackers to businessmen.

Egyptian Arabic is the most widely understood dialect, because Egyptian movies, music and culture are influential throughout the Arab world. Egypt has the largest Arab population by far so that dialect is the best for being widely understood across the region.

There is wide differentiation between dialects which should not be underestimated. In most parts of the world these dialects would be considered distinct languages altogether.

I knew a Syrian guy who told me about a friend of his in Tunisia and how they preferred to speak French with each other since they had a hard time understanding each other's dialects in Arabic.

The Economist had a good post about this recently.

As for Dubai, I've been there. They are pretty welcoming of Americans and its culture superficially resembles ours - or at least is inspired by it. The biggest activity is shopping. The malls there are on another level. If you're a drinker, Dubai will make you cut back. Even though drinking is allowed, it's quite expensive and the culture is too conservative to enjoy it the way you would at home.

The local population is predominantly Filipino and South Asian (Pakistani, Bangladeshi, Indian). They far outnumber the native Emiratis who are 10% of the population at best. Then you have a large and diverse sprinkling of folks from across the region and around the world.

If you got a job there, I would recommend focusing on stacking paper and using its great transit logistics for getting it in elsewhere (i.e. Lebanon, Turkey). Flights are easy through low cost carriers that Dubai runs. I flew from Dubai to Beirut once for only $80. You can connect to almost all points of the world direct through Dubai.

In addition to pipelining, hitting the beach (i.e. Jumeirah) is a good place to find foreign chicks during the day. Elderly (indirect) openers are the way to go for day gaming in a conservative place such as Dubai.

[Doc_J]

Hey, I'm moving to Dubai shortly and planning to learn the language as well. I don't expect it to be easy but with a little effort and discipline I think it's possible. I don't have any friends there so I'm expecting a bit of a challenge and a world of opportunity.

I worked on and off in Kuwait for sometime and made friends with Lebanese guys mostly. They are usually very friendly and fun to be with so these are always a good target to befriend.

[Clunge]

Your flag says Thailand, I guess it will be pretty depressing going from Thailand to the Middle East.

[Aliblahba]

http://www.rooshvforum.network/thread-11584.html

[Aliblahba]

I say go for it and live in the ME for a year. I have a lot of good memories there and want to go back for work. It's an eye opener and a different experience. If you're on the local schedule, there are plenty of holidays to take breaks and fly over to Greece/Cyprus. The food is amazing. OFW's make around $600 per month, so you can do it on the cheap. Most Westerners go over there and eat American chain food that is expensive. They never venture off the beaten path and go for the Indian, Sri Lankan, Thai, Lebanese, ect.

I used to go into the cheap shopping malls and it was fun, striking up conversations with people, trying new food, searching for coconut water in the can, learning how to cook the weird shit I bought.

Getting laid wasn't hard, Filipino was a goldmine, and when the girls find out you live there they perk up quick. Dubai is the Las Vegas of the ME and a good place to start. Qatar is in between Kuwait and the UAE for rules. It's not just making money on your job, but potentially networking with the locals, cause some have unlimited funds for investment. Some like to hire Americans just because. I passed up an opportunity with one of the richest families over there. Oh well.

It's not as bad as the others are making it out to be. Dubai even has straight flights to Georgia. You can drink, fuck, and party in the right places. And make money. It's hard to pair those up.

[Hispanic_Reasoning]

(09-04-2013 08:34 PM)Aliblahba Wrote:  

I say go for it and live in the ME for a year. I have a lot of good memories there and want to go back for work. It's an eye opener and a different experience. If you're on the local schedule, there are plenty of holidays to take breaks and fly over to Greece/Cyprus. The food is amazing. OFW's make around $600 per month, so you can do it on the cheap. Most Westerners go over there and eat American chain food that is expensive. They never venture off the beaten path and go for the Indian, Sri Lankan, Thai, Lebanese, ect.

I used to go into the cheap shopping malls and it was fun, striking up conversations with people, trying new food, searching for coconut water in the can, learning how to cook the weird shit I bought.

Getting laid wasn't hard, Filipino was a goldmine, and when the girls find out you live there they perk up quick. Dubai is the Las Vegas of the ME and a good place to start. Qatar is in between Kuwait and the UAE for rules. It's not just making money on your job, but potentially networking with the locals, cause some have unlimited funds for investment. Some like to hire Americans just because. I passed up an opportunity with one of the richest families over there. Oh well.

It's not as bad as the others are making it out to be. Dubai even has straight flights to Georgia. You can drink, fuck, and party in the right places. And make money. It's hard to pair those up.

Happy.

[Sonsowey]

Still considering this... Got an offer in Saudi but I may hold out for Dubai...

How is living in Dubai as far as transport? Rent a car, just get cabs, busses?