[Ferro]

When the logistics are right, the Bang bar/club strategy of leaning back and holding the magic spot against the bar works quite well. I didn't see it covered in Bang, but is there ever a time when you guys see fit to move out of the way? I am finding that never moving an inch for girls only helps me open them. I used to move a bit for guys if they didn't seem like competition and there were no girls around, but I now think that might be enabling stronger guys that are watching to try and do the same when there are girls present or try to physically pull me out of my spot.

What is your default behaviour for male intruders? Just say "this is my spot."? Just stare them down? "No."? "Ask someone else" or "find another spot"? I know that logically there are only so many bartenders and that me being there is not slowing them down, and even tried using that and pointing to other spots, but it seemed they didn't care about that.

I would like to avoid violence, but don't want the cockblockers to win. By now a consensus must have been formed on the best practices for this strategy.

[el mechanico]

Well if the ask politely let them but if they don't tell them to fuck off. If they try to reach over you tell them something like this isn't happening here tonight do it someplace else. I will actually grab their arms but don't really care about avoiding violence it is what it is.

Once this goes too far it creates a pussy vacuum around you where dudes turn your area into a waitress station. But sometimes it works in your favor if girls do it you can open them. That makes it easier to re engage with them when you feel like it.

Lothario actually watched me clear our area like this once maybe he can chime in.

[Ferro]

That sounds pretty standard for North America, and I like your point on arm reaching. In Poland, where the guys seem to make it their mission to out maneuver you, I am looking for more aggressive zero tolerance solutions.

If we break down exactly why the Bang method works so well, it is because picking the right spot gives you maximum exposure and opening potential in the hottest area in the club, and the success rate is maximized by how natural the opener is (they come to you). If I wanted to optimise the first strength, I would try to maximise the amount of girls coming to me from the front and sides by minimising the amount of guys trying to do the same. For the second strength, I would preferably like to open girls without having to simultaneously fend off guys. Since other guys are watching, I believe that shutting down intruders in the most effective way will maximise both strengths.

Depending on the logistics of the club layout, amount of girls, group types, country, etc, there are alternatives to the Bang strategy that work better, but I want to find the best way to do it, even in this hostile territory. Btw, unless there is a fun situational opener I can do, I am usually opening girls in that one second window after they pay for their drinks, as suggested on this forum.

[Lothario]

(09-01-2013 09:45 AM)el mechanico Wrote:  

Lothario actually watched me clear our area like this once maybe he can chime in.

Sure, That is where you want to stand/sit and is a vortex point for approaching. e-mech showed me how to control the vortex point and never to let go of that spot. E--mech asked me to guard a spot and stepped away for a min, I was a young player at that time and kinda let a biker dude slide past me , guess what he planted himself there and never left. Needless to say e-mech wasn't happy when he returned.

Yo e-mech i have come some ways from them days, last weekend I showed Isaac at the Athens, GA meet up what a vortex point is, we all stood next to Cash register and told Isaac , just wait here and Approach girls as they order their drinks and just as we were talking about it, a girl shows up alone, I open with Nice, Boots, They look like Frye's . yada yada.... number close in 3 min.

As far as standing your ground and not phasing , you have to see it to really absorb well. Fisto stood his ground and one girl had to literally turn around and go the other direction Priceless........

[el mechanico]

That whole vortex spot thing deserves a detailed discussion it's the cornerstone of successful bar game.

[Ferro]

(09-01-2013 11:36 AM)el mechanico Wrote:  

That whole vortex spot thing deserves a detailed discussion it's the cornerstone of successful bar game.

When you find a venue with the right logistics and enough talent, securing the vortex is hard to beat as a strategy. Its only downfall is exposure (though it appears ballsy to girls) and having to endure the siege of invaders.

Whereas in a venue like Vodka Bar in Kiev, where the whole club is just one semicircle bar with minimal talent, I might get only one approach opportunity an hour at best as there really is no vortex. This is where Kamaki's Blitzkrieg strategy of quickly approaching every group and getting rejected without the others knowing seems to work well.

[Tuthmosis]

(09-01-2013 09:45 AM)el mechanico Wrote:  

Lothario actually watched me clear our area like this once maybe he can chime in.

[gringochileno]

I usually shift my weight or back away a bit to let other dudes get in but at minimum I'll keep one hand on the bar so as to not lose my spot. For girls, I won't give an inch and then if I want to open them I can use "hey this is my space, get your own. I need a lot of space."

[el mechanico]

The ultimate vortex spot is the mall entrances and exits outside now available with no cockblocking. You'll talk to better talent in this spot in three smokes worth of time than you will in the bars or clubs in three months.

[soup]

I've had guys do this when there are clearly other spots to order from. Regardless of whether or not they are conscious of what they are doing, they are trying to usurp any social capital I've generated by being in that spot.

You can generate a sense of gravity by being in one spot in a high energy club where everyone is moving around quickly. I've had girls comment on how still I am.

It's usually something like "hey can I get in there to order a drink?" "Hey are you waiting to order?"

If it's the first, I will act like I didn't hear them and hopefully they go away.

If it's the second, I'll just say "yes" and they wait around for a while until some other spot opens up.
and they take a hint and leave.
If either of these is followed up by a repeated request, I'll turn around and tell them "there are a lot of other places at the bar where you can order your drink"

To which they will either put up a whiny sarcastic scoff "oh thanks a lot" or they will escalate. If they escalate, I know that I don't want drama, because I'm usually at a place where I know all the bouncers and staff because I'm a regular. At the same time, if a guy gets physical with me, he will be removed.

If he escalates, I'll either turn my back to him, or I'll tell him something like "man, you don't want to be enemy here, you should try to be my friend" if he seems like he might have potential as someone I can work with in the future. Usually they'll look at me in disbelief and walk off.

Fuck those guys. I say the same about pushy girls who try to get up in my shit when I'm doing my thing relaxing at the bar.

If I'm just trying to order a drink, and I'm not looking to post up, I always wait for a spot to open up. They can do the same.

This shit points to a bigger problem that guys have when they go out. It's not that girls are the issue, it's usually that guys are antagonizing each other so much. It's bad etiquette or manners.. It's not even good AMOGing. The best AMOGing is when you steal a girl out from underneath a guy with him not even realizing what you are doing. This is just childish shit.

What a waste of focus. Fellas need to realize that if we all work together, there will be more options for pussy.

I had a guy soccer kick me in the back of the leg a couple nights ago because I ignored him.

[soup]

(09-01-2013 01:51 PM)el mechanico Wrote:  

The ultimate vortex spot is the mall entrances and exits outside now available with no cockblocking. You'll talk to better talent in this spot in three smokes worth of time than you will in the bars or clubs in three months.

This is so true. Once you realize that the world is your club, you options grow exponentially.

You aren't going to be getting AMOG'd on the street most likely.

[MrXY]

(09-01-2013 11:36 AM)el mechanico Wrote:  

That whole vortex spot thing deserves a detailed discussion it's the cornerstone of successful bar game.

I agree- you'll get ten times more good opportunities at the vortex. I know where the vortices are at all my favorite spots and look for them when I go in a new place-sometimes they are at an obvious place but not always-there can be subtle factors that determine where the vortex is

New guys-find it ( or them) by observing, post up there, and let the girls come to you

It's not only great for opportunities-it's camouflage. Rather than being obvious running around hitting on girls and looking like a player you're just standing there, and if you get blown out no other girls even notice.

We need a data sheet complete with diagrams........

[Pyre]

where does mechanico come up with these nuggets of wisdom?

[slothpiece]

If a guy asks me if he can get a drink and move into my spot, I tell them I'm good. I've even been super nice and offered to get the guy a drink since I'm not moving. That's an extreme, but usually they'll ignore it and move on to another spot. One guy kept trying to slowly push me out of my spot and I ended up putting him in the headlock and he started apologizing profusely. That isn't recommended because then the staff and other patrons think you're a lunatic and you get cut off.

As far as girls asking you to move, you of course decide whether to open them and it's an easier, natural transition. I've had one just move me to the side like I was a sliding glass door. I was just visiting San Diego then and didn't need to tell her off to ruin the vibe or get kicked out. This past weekend though, a girl told me to move and I told her to lose the entitled attitude. She took my martini and dumped it all over my shirt. She grabbed another drink and tossed that one on me to add to the mix. I told her to get the fuck out of here. I really didn't know how else to respond. A giant bouncer came up and told me to calm down and I thought it was white knight time. The bartender said she got kicked out, but I was still drenched in vermouth for not wanting to move from my spot or listening to the commands from a child.

[Ferro]

Thanks soup, those sound like good standard responses. I was actually brainstorming ways to use my height and progressively increasing physical strength to intimidate these scumbags enough to just stay away. Then it finally hit me: the main reason that hasn't been totally working and will never be completely effective is alcohol. Alcohol will give any man (especially hard-drinking slavs) the confidence to go up against anything, and especially targeting someone they recognise as being effective with girls.

I now think that projecting a strong frame (yet ballsy and cool enough to entice girls) combined with short and simple responses designed to route the guys elsewhere and minimize escalation (such as soup's examples) might be the best practice. And from now on: not one inch for anybody.

[Roosh]

Another trick: NEVER make eye contact with dudes around the bar. This gives them an opening to make a request. It's easy to sense when a guy is about to ask you to move, so simply give him your back and pretend you don't hear or feel anything.

[soup]

(09-01-2013 04:45 PM)Ferro Wrote:  

Thanks soup, those sound like good standard responses. I was actually brainstorming ways to use my height and progressively increasing physical strength to intimidate these scumbags enough to just stay away. Then it finally hit me: the main reason that hasn't been totally working and will never be completely effective is alcohol. Alcohol will give any man (especially hard-drinking slavs) the confidence to go up against anything, and especially targeting someone they recognise as being effective with girls.

I now think that projecting a strong frame (yet ballsy and cool enough to entice girls) combined with short and simple responses designed to route the guys elsewhere and minimize escalation (such as soup's examples) might be the best practice. And from now on: not one inch for anybody.

Dancing takes up space as well, so if you move around in place, like dancing with your pelvis but keeping you legs in place, you can bump people away from you.

Or you can lean into guys who get right up behind you.

Sometimes I pretend to be a sloppy drunk guy (sometimes I am the sloppy drunk guy) that throws his weight around without thinking about it.

[JohnQPublic]

One thing that always works for me when somebody is trying to push through is saying, "do you have enough room there?". The first time I did it was when I was in a bad mood and was trying to be aggressive, but the guy backed up and said "sorry". Almost 100% of the time they back up and respect my space and about half the guys become friendly and start talking to me. I'm almost always bigger than them, so that may play a part, but I find it surprising that when they can choose whether to think you're being polite or aggressive, they usually choose polite and back straight off.