[mikado]

Hi guys.
After approaching day after day (daygame, nightgame and online game, no social circle game though), getting a bunch of numbers but only something like 5 makeouts and 1 notch for a whole year, I have finally understood something really important.

Most of the time, these rejections happened because the girl was not even attracted when I first approached her.

I am 21, quite skinny ( 139 lbs, 5.87 feet ), with such a baby face (non existent facial hair) that I feel like my appearance alone make them reject me.
I roll solo dolo, am confident in my BL and the way I stand, but my voice is a bit too high -actually, the most logical explanation to all of this is that I hit puberty way too late (when I was 16 years old), I used to cry a lot when I was young and I definitely, and up to today, lack a lot of testosterone- and the whole picture makes it that if sometimes girls come next to me, I never ever get approached. Girls never kino me too.

I may seem like someone bitching too much(knowing I posted a rant in the no porn/no fap group), but I am really depressed because I love game a lot, I always think about it almost every hour a day, approach in huge numbers, and that lack in results is irking me.
Yesterday I sarged for the second time with a guy I met recently. He can't dance much, is a bit shy in general (except that he teases girls a lot when he is with them). However he is a bit taller than me, more ripped, has more or less the same humor than me, yet though he did not approach, he got APPROACHED by a girl. He did not do more than tease her, couldn't dance for shit, but he dragged her off the bar(without her friends cockblocking her) and got laid. I was happy for him, but also incredibly frustrated seeing all my close friends in game got laid with girls from that same bar, but also were APPROACHED, which never ever happened to me.

Though I think I dance quite good (at least solo, since most of the times partner dancing does not last 1 mn, because of I think that lack of physical attraction), girls never seem to click when I try getting in mixed or all-female groups, and the dance approach strategy neither works.

I have decided to start a social circle approach the upcoming year, which seems like the best solution, but I know this is a long process, which still might fail because of the aforementioned problem.

I have come to that conclusion: in order to get laid, I must get a lot more TESTOSTERONE and get rid of that baby face and skinny body.

How long do you estimate it will take (knowing I have not too much money and thus can't subscribe to gym courses) to get a decent body? Should I get injections of testosterone? Does it increase a lot when we workout?
My inner game is strong (otherwise I would not have been so persistent, and gone solo so much), but I think that here, it's my body who is letting me down.
Thank you

[metalheadatheart]

You need to lift heavy. Don't worry about cardio. Do kettlebell swings for endurance. Cut all carbs, and eat a ton of protein. I eat around 10 eggs per day (cheap and easy). Just change up the spices if you get bored.

Also, and this is crucial, get a spiral notebook to use as your training log. Write down how much weight, and your reps and sets, with dates. Without this, you will fail to perceive your gradual gains.

I've been lifting systematically for only 3 months so far, and I've got my bp to 195, and my deadlift to 295. I do kettlebell swings with a 50 pounder. When I started I would do 3 sets of 25. Now I do 120 straight.

Note that I am starting from a different place than you. Prior to this lifting, I did rather erratic sets of pushups, planks, and body squats. I am also trying to get lean. Back in January, I weighed 250. Now I'm at 218. 6 feet tall.

The point is to start somewhere, and keep it systematic.

I can write some more if desired.

[nek]

Do some sort of contact martial art. MMA, Muay Thai, Jiu-jitsu, wrestling, judo. These will help raise testosterone. It's cardio too, but not in the same sense that most people talk about cardio. It's not running or going on the elliptical, it's worrying about getting choked out or knocked out. It's directly competitive, so it's still test-inducing. Watch your diet, moderate fapping, and if/when you fap, don't use porn.

[cocko]

(08-10-2013 09:37 AM)mikado Wrote:  

Hi guys.
After approaching day after day (daygame, nightgame and online game, no social circle game though), getting a bunch of numbers but only something like 5 makeouts and 1 notch for a whole year, I have finally understood something really important.

Most of the time, these rejections happened because the girl was not even attracted when I first approached her.

I am 21, quite skinny ( 139 lbs, 5.87 feet ), with such a baby face (non existent facial hair) that I feel like my appearance alone make them reject me.
I roll solo dolo, am confident in my BL and the way I stand, but my voice is a bit too high -actually, the most logical explanation to all of this is that I hit puberty way too late (when I was 16 years old), I used to cry a lot when I was young and I definitely, and up to today, lack a lot of testosterone- and the whole picture makes it that if sometimes girls come next to me, I never ever get approached. Girls never kino me too.

I may seem like someone bitching too much(knowing I posted a rant in the no porn/no fap group), but I am really depressed because I love game a lot, I always think about it almost every hour a day, approach in huge numbers, and that lack in results is irking me.
Yesterday I sarged for the second time with a guy I met recently. He can't dance much, is a bit shy in general (except that he teases girls a lot when he is with them). However he is a bit taller than me, more ripped, has more or less the same humor than me, yet though he did not approach, he got APPROACHED by a girl. He did not do more than tease her, couldn't dance for shit, but he dragged her off the bar(without her friends cockblocking her) and got laid. I was happy for him, but also incredibly frustrated seeing all my close friends in game got laid with girls from that same bar, but also were APPROACHED, which never ever happened to me.

Though I think I dance quite good (at least solo, since most of the times partner dancing does not last 1 mn, because of I think that lack of physical attraction), girls never seem to click when I try getting in mixed or all-female groups, and the dance approach strategy neither works.

I have decided to start a social circle approach the upcoming year, which seems like the best solution, but I know this is a long process, which still might fail because of the aforementioned problem.

I have come to that conclusion: in order to get laid, I must get a lot more TESTOSTERONE and get rid of that baby face and skinny body.

How long do you estimate it will take (knowing I have not too much money and thus can't subscribe to gym courses) to get a decent body? Should I get injections of testosterone? Does it increase a lot when we workout?
My inner game is strong (otherwise I would not have been so persistent, and gone solo so much), but I think that here, it's my body who is letting me down.
Thank you

as a man with a lot of testosterone (male physique, deep voice, body and facial hair) i agree with your sentiment. i make girls blush sometimes just by opening them. when i lift i get crazy masculine and day dream about starting fights etc like ripping the hearts from the chests of large men around me. it's very unhealthy thinking and i cut back on lifting for this reason alone.

however you sound like a sissy and could probably use some of that sweet testosterone. don't worry too much about your diet right now, as long as you lift you will begin to feel testosterone's heat. eat protein (beans, nuts, meats) and you'll be fine. you do not need to cut carbs. if anything just eat whole grains. there's a lot of science on the whys of whole grains and how they affect your insulin levels (the hormone responsible for fat storage.) also limit soy intake if you're worried about testosterone levels

[godofwar]

start eating like a motherfucker.

make it your life. (and lift heavy of course)

i was 150-165 from age 17 to 24. i'm almost 6'1", averaged around 160 lbs. i was always ripped, and girls responded to me positively, but always average girls. i routinely got ignored and rejected from the best girls, although my persistence and game made me last longer in the process and eventually got a few lays... but i was fighting against my size.

i got a hot gf finally at 24 and after a while, she flat out told me that she was just attracted to large men, and i was by far the smallest guy she had been with. i managed to keep her for 9 months, but it was a constant struggle, whenever i thought i could be myself, i would almost lose access, then i would 'turn game mode back on'. it was tiring for me, eventually she got tired of the inconsistent image.

i put on 20 lbs this summer, and am heavier than I have ever been. not all of it is muscle obviously, but it doesn't seem to matter that much. at 185 lbs, i'm heavier than i've ever been, and shit is SOO much easier. women smile at me. i've gotten two notches without even trying. the girl i'm currently seeing is hotter than any i've ever been with in my life. and the BEST part is that i don't have to 'game,' she is submissive, kind, and treats me better than i've ever been treated.

anyone who tells me size doesn't matter... HA. i have a feeling i'm a good looking guy, maybe that's why it's so easy. but before i had this size, my looks didn't even matter. you need size to even get your foot in the door. different sizes for different quality of girls.

START EATING and LIFTING like your life depended on it. forget approaches. put in work for a year instead on your size. you'll start getting approached instead... and you'll have a better body anyways if you don't. (you will though, trust me)

[Ensam]

Squat and deadlift - those two lifts will do the most to boost your testosterone. Toss in bench and overhead press once you get a routine going but they're optional to start. Get someone to show you how to do the lifts properly and work up to heavy weights. If you're using proper form you'll get nice upper body development just from squatting and deadlifting. Use
http://www.exrx.net/Testing/WeightLiftin...dards.html as a rough guide. You should be able to hit intermediate weights within six months. The advanced might take a year or two but you're young enough it should happen pretty fast. In my experience girls will start to notice and treat you differently in 6 to 8 weeks. In six months to a year you'll be a new man.

[Veloce]

I'll chime in to echo what others have said, but also: I relate to you completely OP.

I'm a bit of a late bloomer, both mentally and physically, so don't worry if you feel a little behind. Your early 20s are gonna suck but if you put in the legwork, by the time you hit 28 you'll be a god. I didn't hit my stride until late 20s, in my beliefs, my mentality toward women, gaining weight, confidence, etc.

Think of your early 20s as a time to invest, as hard as you can. Sure you can still go out and approach and try to fuck as many girls as you can, but use your time wisely. Better to improve yourself now so you can cash in when you're in your late 20s and early 30s, which is a man's peak desirability. You're lucky that your recovery time is insane right now. Literally push your body as hard as you can, eat as many calories as you can, and sleep as much as your body needs. Spend a full year or two bulking, don't worry if you get a little gut (and you will get one).

This is basically the advice I'd give myself if I was talking to the 21 year old me. I couldn't even grow a real beard until like 22-23. I didn't hit 185lb until I was 28 or so. I'm 205lb now at 32, but I could have acheived this 10 years ago, and without the soreness too.

[Stun]

I'll just add to the other's sentiments.

I am 6' and if I didn't work out probably be around 170. A woman won't even look at me at that weight.

At 195-200 with a big chest, shoulders and arms and thighs, it is an ENTIRELY different story. Some girls after the interaction mention they noticed me because of my arms or ass or whatever.

It's probably a lot less important at age 21, but as you get older you'll notice that it becomes increasingly more and more important.

[AntiTrace]

I second everything thedude has said.

OP sounds exactly like where I was when I was 21 body wise.

I was always skinny, I did decent with women but not as good as I wanted. I just started hitting the gym hard as of about 6 months ago. I've gained 10 pounds and watched all my weights go up. The best part is looking at my before and after pics. Watching my progression from skinny to actually having broad shoulders, visible lats, a much more defined chest, the upside down horseshoe tricep, etc.

I also went from having to push myself to go to the gym instead of being lazy. Now, even on an "off" day I'll go do something light at least. I've seen workout partners come and go, and now I mainly workout solo and adapt my workouts as needed (I.E. dumbbell bench as opposed to heavy barbell bench with no spotter).

And this was all done without a strict diet at all. Sometimes I was lucky to get 1500-2000 calories a day for up to two weeks due to work. I am certain you will see better gains with a more constant diet.

You don't have a lot of money and can't join a gym?. Golds gym normally cost around 20-30 bucks. If you can't fork over 30 bucks a month for a lifestyle change then you have no hope. You would ideally need more than than that, around 80-100 bucks a month to afford gym membership and enough protein to take three shakes a day.

If you want your life to improve, start lifting and don't stop. My only regret is that I didn't start years ago.

We've given you the answer. All the information can be found on this forum. The rest is up to you. From this point on, the only person you can blame is yourself.

[kaloha]

First of all I think you should try to get a full hormonal panel done. Complain about low libido and erectile problems and you may be able to get it (but remember to not let them think you're "depressed" or you might get thrown on an SSRI instead, which is the last thing you want here).

As for raising T/improving hormonal balance, here's some safe and sound things you can do:

Make sure to get enough high quality deep sleep
Lift heavy. Follow a typical strength lifting program with deadlifts, bench and squats. Keep it at 3 - 5 reps. Martial arts, fitness or cardio programs will not be as beneficial.
Get enough carbs (at least 250 gr per day) and enough protein (100 - 140 gr per day). DO NOT listen to people saying you should go low-carb - you want to keep your glycogen stores filled and avoid gluconeogenesis at all times
Eat lots of saturated and mono-saturated fats. Avoid poly-unsaturated fats.
Supplement with zinc
Get plenty of sunlight
Cold showers / ice baths

Then of course there is AAS but this should be considered a last resort as it may mess you up permanently. Also remember that some people are late-bloomers and testosterone levels typically peak at around 25 y o.

Bonne chance!

[mikado]

Here I am again, guys!

First of all: thank you so much on sharing your experiences, and advice. I did not want to ask on another forum for advice, because here, we help people to become a real man in all the aspects of his life.

Sure enough, I started since yesterday looking at the Kcal behind most of the products, making some stats and getting a program done for every day of the week.
Some funny thing happened yesterday, when I trully decided to carve this path: I no longer wanted to fap, stood up to clean most of the mess in my room, feeling it come from the inside of me: yes, I want to be that man, I was born to, and I will be, whatever happens. And when I went to sleep, I had for the first time in something like 2 years (and like the 4th or 5th only in my life) an erotical dream, pounding some hot bitches like it was the end of the world. Everything is linked!! Lol
The ride will be long, but it is actually exciting

[bodmon]

if you wanna get bigger than do the following

1. follow any strength-based weightlifting routine centered around the 7 essential compound movements (squat, deadlift, bench press, standing press, bent over row, dip, chinup).

2. eat 1 gram of protein per 1 pound of lean body mass everyday. so if you're 140 lbs at 15% bodyfat, then eat 120 grams. the protein should come from meat (chicken, beef, pork, fish, etc.) or dairy (milk, yogurt, cheese, whey powder, etc.).

3. to gain weight, eat at a 10-20% caloric surplus. this is called bulking. if you've discovered that your maintenance calories are 2500 cal/day, then eat 2750-3000. to lose fat, eat at a 10-20% caloric deficit. this called cutting. so again if your maintenance calories are 2500 cal/day, then eat 2000-2250. if you find that you are an ectomorph or "hard-gainer" with a high metabolism (maintenance >3000), then yes, your life will centre around eating lots of food and shelling out lots of money for it.

it will take around 3 years to reach your genetic potential. you will gain around 30 pounds of muscle, with very little beyond that. if you've trained optimally and have decent genetics, you can end up looking something like this:



that there is the limit of natural bodybuilding. it's pretty good for most men. if however you want to look bigger, leaner, and in a FASTER period of time, then you have to take steroids.

also, regarding your babyface, you cannot really change the structure of your face other than 1) hoping that it'll fill out and mature with age, 2) reducing bodyfat to make it more defined.

[Onto]

There's a lot of good advice here. All I can say is don't do artificial shit like injections and all the rest. It's not worth destroying your organs.

An old friend of mine was 5'5", didn't weigh much and would date hot girls. Why? Because of his personality, his attitude. He was also a former special forces soldier. In short, he was a killer, but never advertised it. You would never know that about him, because he always acted humble, never bravado. He simply had nothinig to prove. Even when some big tough guy drunk at a bar would provoke him, he just needed to look that guy in eye and say in a calm manner, "You just don't want to fuck with me.", and you wouldn't. I imagine he was the same way with women.

I think it's great you want to develop more muscle, because tuning the body can lead to tuning the spirit. That said, muscles will get a girl to look, but attitude will get them hooked.

[Nolecbo]

Agreed, good advice here. I was 135lbs and 6 feet when I was 18. Almost 20 years later I am the same height and about 185 (I could stand to lose 10lbs but the rest is muscle).

You are facing a problem some of the naturally bigger guys don't face - your body has to create muscle mass where it has none. You were on the right track with the testosterone injections but that is the *end* of the road, not the beginning.

In the beginning you need to start with creatine and NO2. Once you see the gains from those level off, you add something to it. Maybe a post-workout drink or a recovery supplement. For me creatine, NO2 and 3 rounds of andro did the trick, I never had to take testosterone or HGH. Start small, then work up. What you are proposing is going from a bicycle to a hot rod.

These guys are great for the brand names of the products:
http://www.bodybuildingoutlet.com/whwere1.html

I know Roosh likes Starting Strength and it is a great program. I got my results from Body for Life, but it is two sides of the same coin.

Then LISTEN to the advice above. Taking ANY supplement without maxing your lifts and eating protein like a maniac makes ZERO sense.