[oldnemesis]

Before asking the question I'd like to define the playground as the advice which is good for one goal/persona is useless for another.
My situation is the following. In clubs and bars I am interested only in one night stands obtained with minimum effort from my side (I'd rather skip on girl than spend more time on her). No dates, no phone numbers. I go out typically once a week for a few hours, and do either karaoke or dancing. Generally I do not enjoy talking to people in general with few exceptions of some very bright people. I can easily do it when necessary to achieve my goal, but typically this would be something I consider a chore, not something I would enjoy.

Now, the question is whether I should approach or not. The reason I'm asking is that I see very low feedback when I approach - in most cases she expects me to spend more effort on her than I'm willing to, which means the approach dies sooner or later. I would guess my success rate to be around 1 per 60 approaches or so. It also feels like I'm doing most of the work, and resistance often happens.

However if I do not approach anyone at all, and just sit there and expect to be approached, the success rate goes up dramatically - now it is more like 1 per 5 approaches or so. There is no bitch shield or crap tests, she is also more eager to keep the conversation going, and not only there is no resistance, but she often actually pushes it. It is obvious why it happens, so it is quite reliable.

So the benefits of not approaching are obvious. Now, what are the drawbacks?

1. I can spend the whole evening in a bar without talking to a single person. This is not a big deal for me, as I'm not a very social person (by American standards I'm likely to be considered anti-social which again is good). However I have no idea whether it affects anything else.

2. The overall success rate is significantly less because not every girl is going to approach a guy she considers attractive/fuck partner. Therefore by not approaching I am missing this chunk of the population, which may be significant. However this is offset by the fact that a major part of those girls would put up at least some resistance which I would be too lazy to push through.

3. I am not improving my approach skills. However in my situation it appears to be a useless skill anyway. There is a (very small) chance it may become useful in future, but I'd rather spend time on improving something I need right now, not in a far future.

I do not see any other drawbacks. But there is a good chance I am missing something from the big picture, or there are some missing parts of the equation. Therefore this request for comments.

[Mrs. Chocolate]

When you don't approach you must be patient.
VERY patient.

[Roosh]

You didn't mention having any status or fame at the bar you go to. Therefore, approach.

[oldnemesis]

My thought is that having high status or fame would make things worse for me. They mostly help when YOU approach. However if you want to be approached, being high status means that only those who perceive themselves to be high status would approach you. This sounds good, but it is not as my scale is significantly different from locals. This means the girl who considers herself 8, may be actually 4 on my scale, and I will treat her like that, meaning it is unlikely something happens between us. Then if you consider that local 8 is like 4 to me, and local 4 is like 3, I'd rather have a 4 doing all the work than 8 which would require me to do all the work.

Can you explain your thoughts what are the benefits of approaching in my situation? I'm pretty much got an opinion that it is waste of time, and explained my rationale. Is there any mistakes in this rationale?

2Mrs. Chocolate: I do not know what is considered "very patient", so I do not know whether myself would qualify. It is just getting laid is not something I would work my ass for. If it is there or the process of getting it is enjoyable by itself, I'll go for it. But if it feels like work, I'd rather skip it.

[OGNorCal707]

Ummm.... Very few attractive women will approach you, unless you are extremely attractive, or have some kind of high status or fame/reputation as Roosh mentions. Attractive women just don't approach men, I don't know if it's societal, cultural, or evolutionary, but it's basically a fact of life. You simply can't expect women to approach you, so if you want any increase in your success with women, approaching is mandatory.

It sounds like you are very anti-social and are proud of it, well I'll tell you as someone who has been shy, anti-social, and has had social anxiety, you get out what you put in. Therefore, if you sit at the end of the bar staring at your drink, you can't expect people to engage you or talk to you. Maybe you should be a little more open, or open-minded, there are cool people out there, but if you just assume everyone sucks, you'll never meet them. Sometimes it's just going with the flow, and having a good time.

What your saying about having better success when you don't approach, is kind of obvious, you're not really having better results, it's just that any women that approaches you is obviously going to be attracted to you straight off the bat, increasing the probability for success. It's possible that you just need to work on your "game" if it's something that is important to you, if you're success rates approaching are low, it could be because you just aren't very charming, smooth, interesting, etc. to the women you meet. Or maybe you're vibe is just off, if you are not in a social mood, and not having fun, women will pick up on that from a mile away, and it will repel them.

I guess what it boils down to is how bad do you want to get laid? Are you willing to put forth any effort? I know I was a horny dude who couldn't get laid for shit, for the longest time, it was tormenting, but I didn't do anything about changing my situation. Also, I have heard you say on these boards repeatedly how women aren't up to your standards, and you don't find Latinas, Asians, etc. attractive, but to me it sounds like you're kind of close-minded, or maybe narrow-minded. I can understand that if you're coming from a place like Eastern Europe where some countries the vast majority of women are attractive and would be considered stunners here in the U.S.

But... there are hot women every where, and there are some damn hot women, including Latinas and Asians in Cali., if you're in the San Jose/Silicon Valley, that area is known as "Man Jose" and is suffering from a serious shortage of hot women, I suggest you try SF, Santa Cruz, etc. We can't all date 9s and 10's all the time, it's ideal and what we all desire, but sometimes we got to deal with reality, I'll casually date a girl even if she's only a 6 or 7, if she's cool and DTF all the time, IMHO it's better than paying $400 for an hour with some hotter 10 off cityvibe.com

[oldnemesis]

(09-29-2010 07:21 PM)OGNorCal707 Wrote:  

Ummm.... Very few attractive women will approach you, unless you are extremely attractive, or have some kind of high status or fame/reputation as Roosh mentions. Attractive women just don't approach men, I don't know if it's societal, cultural, or evolutionary, but it's basically a fact of life. You simply can't expect women to approach you, so if you want any increase in your success with women, approaching is mandatory.

Thank for the feedback, probably more clarifications are needed.
First, I am not looking for attractive woman, there are so few of them in US that it makes no sense at all. She just needs to be fuckable. Roughly two out of five who approach me are. Since I am not looking for anything more than a single one night stand (not even fuck buddy relationship), I can afford to lower my standards there.
Second, I am not looking to increase my "success", my goal is very different: one night stands obtained with minimum effort from my side.

Quote:

It sounds like you are very anti-social and are proud of it, well I'll tell you as someone who has been shy, anti-social, and has had social anxiety, you get out what you put in. Therefore, if you sit at the end of the bar staring at your drink, you can't expect people to engage you or talk to you. Maybe you should be a little more open, or open-minded, there are cool people out there, but if you just assume everyone sucks, you'll never meet them. Sometimes it's just going with the flow, and having a good time.

There is some difference here. I am definitely not shy, and usually when I go out I either dance (and I'm good in it even when they play some shitty hiphop), or karaoke (and I'm good on it as well). I'm good looking and dress sharp, often in suits. Neither I stare on my drink, I look around and smile a lot. My thing is that I am not interested in other people at all. It is not because I assume they suck, it is just socializing with others feels like work to me.

Things, however, are significantly different when I travel - usually when in Europe I go out every night, and approach at least three girls a night, and we usually end up talking over an hour. Somehow it feels different there. Language barrier maybe?

Quote:

I guess what it boils down to is how bad do you want to get laid? Are you willing to put forth any effort? I know I was a horny dude who couldn't get laid for shit, for the longest time, it was tormenting, but I didn't do anything about changing my situation.

This is easy to answer - not bad at all. Note that I'm married, my marriage is not sexless, and my wife is hot. It is just like monogamy does not work for me, and my wife is ok with that subject to some reasonable conditions. Let me rephrase it like that - when I see in bars how much effort guys put into get laid, it looks ridiculous to me.

Quote:

Also, I have heard you say on these boards repeatedly how women aren't up to your standards, and you don't find Latinas, Asians, etc. attractive, but to me it sounds like you're kind of close-minded, or maybe narrow-minded. I can understand that if you're coming from a place like Eastern Europe where some countries the vast majority of women are attractive and would be considered stunners here in the U.S.
But... there are hot women every where, and there are some damn hot women, including Latinas and Asians in Cali., if you're in the San Jose/Silicon Valley, that area is known as "Man Jose" and is suffering from a serious shortage of hot women, I suggest you try SF, Santa Cruz, etc. We can't all date 9s and 10's all the time, it's ideal and what we all desire, but sometimes we got to deal with reality, I'll casually date a girl even if she's only a 6 or 7, if she's cool and DTF all the time, IMHO it's better than paying $400 for an hour with some hotter 10 off cityvibe.com

Somehow we got disconnected here. The reason I do not even consider 8s-10s (by local standards) is that it takes a significant effort to get them, and it makes no sense to put all that effort just for a single one night stand. Remember my stated goal includes minimal effort and one night stands, and excludes dates completely.

Yes, I'm in Silicon Valley, but it is not that bad here. There are a lot of guys, but majority of them are Asians or Hispanics, we Whites are minority here (and Blacks rock the world as there are only few of them in Bay Area). I will check SF/SC, but last time we partied there it didn't look like the place to go for me. It is also one hour drive, which is quite far.

[OGNorCal707]

The fact that you're married and have regular sex with your wife explains a lot, I have a better understanding of where you're coming from. Hot women in America can take a lot of work to game, so if you're already in a relationship it makes sense that you wouldn't want to put forth so much effort. As far as feeling like socializing is "work", I kind of understand if you're not a naturally extroverted and outgoing person, but a lot of it boils down to your outlook and perspective, which is something you can have control over.

[oldnemesis]

Indeed. And if you combine it with the fact that 99% of those considered "hot" here are just ordinary for me, you can easily see why I see absolutely no reason to put any effort into them.