[Ziltoid]

I've been lurking here and posting about topical shit for a while now, but have never really gotten personal or engaged deeply in the game forums before.
I'm not really sure where else to say this or who else to say it to, as this place (RVF) is honestly the only place I can even imagine discussing this. Since taking the metaphorical red pill, I feel very isolated and disconnected from everyone around me, even close friends and family. How do you confide in someone when you're effectively speaking a different language than they are?
That in mind, please excuse the spilling of guts that is about to ensue.

My problem:
(Is it even a problem? If it is, am I the problem or is my environment?)

As time goes by, I'm finding myself less and less interested in engaging with women on any level. Sex is fun and all, but the logistical effort and mental drain involved in fucking women compared to the enjoyment I get from it more often than not feels like a net loss.
I have no travel experience outside of the US or first hand dealings with women of other cultures, so I feel odd acknowledging this, but everything about American women truly disgusts me. Their wannabe masculinity, bitchiness, sense of entitlement, perpetual victim mentality, shallowness, and insecurity turns me off more than their bodies could possibly ever turn me on.

I've never really considered myself MGTOW, and I don't think I'm a pathetic beta, but to some extent I'm the cuddle/romance type I guess you could say.
It goes without saying how compatible that outlook is with American girls...
I want to seduce worthwhile women, make love to them, and potentially even engage in a long term relationship with them.
I do not want to engage in incessant sarcastic verbal gymnastics to entice her to fuck me. I do not want to throw her around in bed, pull her hair, and call her names. I do not want to have to restrain my moderate interest in her in order to foster insecurity and maintain whatever dysfunctional attraction to me she's even capable of, lest I otherwise quickly be labeled as needy and desperate. I enjoy none of these things, very much to the contrary. Yet I push myself to engage in them.
Though I'm FAR from being a great player, I'm basically satisfied with my current ability to get women into bed... But every sacrifice of my true desires in sex and courtship sucks some enjoyment out of it, and I feel like I'm becoming a fucked up product of other people's piddly neuroses, all for the lackluster and numbing payoff of sliding my dick into a slit between their legs.
I don't expect sex nor love to come easily or without effort and compromise, but am I really engaging with women on my own terms if I'm continually altering myself in undesirable ways in quest of winning their favor?

I hesitate to say that I want to pursue relationships more than I do sex, because the idea of either is becoming less and less appealing with American women in the equation.

Am I deluding myself in believing that there ought to be something more out there than being an asshole to a girl to squeeze a few lays out of her? I don't, by any means, delude myself into the sad beta pipe dream of wanting to find that "perfect, fascinating, intelligent woman who completes me", but a large part of me wants to find a woman that I can at least have some semblance of interest in as a person and a woman.

Am I just whining and making excuses for myself; blaming American women for my own problems and shortcomings? Should I try to experience things outside the US to see if they're even that much different/better?
Any general advice?

Thanks.

[CJ_W]

(07-22-2013 01:05 AM)Ziltoid Wrote:  

I've been lurking here and posting about topical shit for a while now, but have never really gotten personal or engaged deeply in the game forums before.
I'm not really sure where else to say this or who else to say it to, as this place (RVF) is honestly the only place I can even imagine discussing this. Since taking the metaphorical red pill, I feel very isolated and disconnected from everyone around me, even close friends and family. How do you confide in someone when you're effectively speaking a different language than they are?
That in mind, please excuse the spilling of guts that is about to ensue.

My problem:
(Is it even a problem? If it is, am I the problem or is my environment?)

As time goes by, I'm finding myself less and less interested in engaging with women on any level. Sex is fun and all, but the logistical effort and mental drain involved in fucking women compared to the enjoyment I get from it more often than not feels like a net loss.
I have no travel experience outside of the US or first hand dealings with women of other cultures, so I feel odd acknowledging this, but everything about American women truly disgusts me. Their wannabe masculinity, bitchiness, sense of entitlement, perpetual victim mentality, shallowness, and insecurity turns me off more than their bodies could possibly ever turn me on.

I've never really considered myself MGTOW, and I don't think I'm a pathetic beta, but to some extent I'm the cuddle/romance type I guess you could say.
It goes without saying how compatible that outlook is with American girls...
I want to seduce worthwhile women, make love to them, and potentially even engage in a long term relationship with them.
I do not want to engage in incessant sarcastic verbal gymnastics to entice her to fuck me. I do not want to throw her around in bed, pull her hair, and call her names. I do not want to have to restrain my moderate interest in her in order to foster insecurity and maintain whatever dysfunctional attraction to me she's even capable of, lest I otherwise quickly be labeled as needy and desperate. I enjoy none of these things, very much to the contrary. Yet I push myself to engage in them.
Though I'm FAR from being a great player, I'm basically satisfied with my current ability to get women into bed... But every sacrifice of my true desires in sex and courtship sucks some enjoyment out of it, and I feel like I'm becoming a fucked up product of other people's piddly neuroses, all for the lackluster and numbing payoff of sliding my dick into a slit between their legs.
I don't expect sex nor love to come easily or without effort and compromise, but am I really engaging with women on my own terms if I'm continually altering myself in undesirable ways in quest of winning their favor?

I hesitate to say that I want to pursue relationships more than I do sex, because the idea of either is becoming less and less appealing with American women in the equation.

Am I deluding myself in believing that there ought to be something more out there than being an asshole to a girl to squeeze a few lays out of her? I don't, by any means, delude myself into the sad beta pipe dream of wanting to find that "perfect, fascinating, intelligent woman who completes me", but a large part of me wants to find a woman that I can at least have some semblance of interest in as a person and a woman.

Am I just whining and making excuses for myself; blaming American women for my own problems and shortcomings? Should I try to experience things outside the US to see if they're even that much different/better?
Any general advice?

Thanks.

1)Nothing is WRONG with you. Stop thinking in those terms

2)if American women don't interest you don't date them. Yeah they can suck (not in a good way either) but just don't worry about it. If you want to try foreign women do it.

3)depending on how old you are (under 55) you need to have women on Rotation. Monogamy does not work so if youre looking to get married/kids/etc you already know not to do it. . .or just go to another country where divorce laws are not against you. After three years its perfectly normal for the women to not be sexually interested in their husbands, and for men to want to and go ahead and screw other women. its simple biology, nothing can be done about that.

4)Yes, you DO need to stop whining about American women. . .

but so does the whole manosphere.

WOMEN are NOT the enemy. Don't forget that.

but still doesn't mean that you have to deal with them where there are better women around the world.

yes you should travel, meet women of different cultures.

If there is a hobby or passion you have, focus on that more as well. Sounds like you're not doing enough of that. . .if you have time to think you're "wrong" somehow.

[Ziltoid]

Though the post was very serious, the title was intended to be melodramatic and humorous. In retrospect it sounded a little more pathetic than I meant.

However;
On some level, from hanging around these forums and my dealings with other guys in person, something slightly bothers me about the fact that some force besides the desire to fuck as many women as humanly possible at any cost is not what is driving me. I don't know if it should bother me or not.

*edit* And, I'd like to add I actually have a lot of fulfilling hobbies and interests; shit, I even have a job I really enjoy and am passionate about.

And no, marriage does not interest me at all, at least not now... Just the idea of finding women tolerable of being around for longer than one night.

Keeping in mind that I have never traveled internationally, ever, where would a good place to start be?
And I don't even mean locations, I mean like, threads on here, books, websites, etc...

[NYC_HipsterDouchebag]

Bang Brazil, Bang Poland, Bang Iceland? I think Roosh has it pretty nailed down

[Cattle Rustler]

(07-22-2013 01:25 AM)Ziltoid Wrote:  

Keeping in mind that I have never traveled internationally, ever, where would a good place to start be?
And I don't even mean locations, I mean like, threads on here, books, websites, etc...

Go to SEA (South East Asia), where boys get turned into men. No seriously, after reading so many threads (fisto does SEA, etc)....everybody gets laid there. From Fisto to the old fat dirty retired American bastard. Book something like 10 days phillipines and 10 days thailand.

Normally I'm not into people living there (I'll fuck their expats abroad though), but that's my next trip. You get to enjoy a good stay, it's cheap, and you can practice your game. Learn some martial arts or take cooking classes. You can do a crap load of things, and open your mind too. Just don't go with the "American #1" attitude or else you will have a bad time, but I'm sure you're a good fellow so this won't apply to you.

[Ziltoid]

(07-22-2013 02:00 AM)NYC_HipsterDouchebag Wrote:  

Bang Brazil, Bang Poland, Bang Iceland? I think Roosh has it pretty nailed down

I'm aware of his travel titles, and of course those came to mind, but do they cover the blockheaded absolute beginner aspects of traveling?
I haven't even done much solo traveling within the US, let alone abroad.
I'm talking shit like, means of getting around in other countries, financing trips, important laws and regulations, avoiding scams, etc...

[Every10GivesMeA10]

I feel exactly the same. Could not have explained it better myself. Hoping to see some veterans chime in here.

[Acute Angle]

Ziltoid, excellent post. I would encourage you to read Xsplat's blog. He goes into some detail on how you can engage with women emotionally, and even fall in love with them, whilst maintaining hand (a dominant frame). He lives in SEA where the women are far easier to attract than those in the Anglosphere. I recommend you go there to see how different life and relationships can be.

You don't have to turn yourself into a sociopath in order to engage with women on your terms. As you kind of say, it's a pyrrhic victory to fuck lots of women who were only attracted to some distorted image you projected rather than your true self.

[tiggaling]

Get out of the U.S. and go somewhere you where you will find charming females who bring out your mascuilnity and who you truly enjoy (on every level)

[gringochileno]

I like this post. I imagine I'd have similar sentiments if I were more of an LTR guy by disposition.

I guess what it really comes down to is that you're aggravated by the amount of effort you have to put in just to get the "lackluster and numbing payoff of sliding my dick into a slit between their legs" when that's not ultimately what you want anyway. I suppose I'm fortunate that I like vagina enough that I do consider the payoff worth it - if you asked me right after getting a new notch whether the effort I put in was worth it I'd probably laugh and ask if you're being serious.

I'm afraid I have to agree with the others in this thread that the best way to find what you're looking for is to relocate outside the US. Sweet, feminine girls without dysfunctional attitudes toward sex and relationships do exist here but they're extremely rare. Take a trip to South America, Eastern Europe, or Southeast Asia and see if there are greener pastures there.

[sixsix]

What a complete and utter dysfunction, when even the guys on a game forum experience existential crises regarding the opposite sex.

I have the same, was just talking about it to a foreign fling via Whatsapp. Player burnout or something.

I am going to quit cultivating (for a while at least) this short-term player persona and venture into deeper stuff. Higher quality girls that you actually like. Talked about it for too long already today, so gonna hit the gym now. Will check back.

[Beyond Borders]

If you're looking for an old-fashioned, traditional romance, come to Southeast Asia BUT avoid the women most foreigners go for here.

Plenty of painfully cute, shy, and traditional women who would be interested in a long-term relationship and once you're banging will show up at your place and start cleaning immediately whenever they come over, entice you to bang three times a day like they've just discovered sex, and try their hardest to impress you by doing sweet little favors for you.

On holidays they'll knit you stupid shit, they'll constantly worry about how your bad habits affect your health, and your biggest problem with them (if you choose wisely) will be that they'll constantly worry that you'll fuck one of the many hotter, easier women that throw flirts your way. The good ones you will have to work on before sex - maybe weeks, maybe even months. But of course there are plenty of others available to keep you busy late at night after she goes home while you're waiting - that said, if waiting for sex with an old-school girl like this is too much, maybe old-fashioned isn't what you need as you'll probably just end up eventually destroying her. A lot of the easier women may still make pretty good short-term relationship material, but they won't be as doting, and tread carefully as to avoid common expat time bombs.

In any event, it will really blow your mind how much the problems with American women are directly related to American culture.

Thank me after you see for yourself.

[Ziltoid]

Thanks for the input, to everyone who posted.

I'm going to start looking into learning other languages, I've tried previously but more as a recreational pursuit than a serious effort.
Hopefully find some resources on the basics of travel while I'm at it.
Please feel free to drop me any links related to either.

Another thing I've really been grappling with... What does it say about me that having sex with as many (quality) women as reasonably possible is not my driving motivation? Does it reek of insecurity, denial, or is it just an innocuous character trait?
Reading the manosphere for a while now has frankly made me feel like less of a man in some way for having the LTR tendencies.

[Lex S.]

No, there's nothing wrong with you. Like you I enjoy sex, but I don't feel like it's the end of the world if I don't get any. It really is a numbers game and many times your approaches won't pan out.

I'm personally pretty lazy when it comes to meeting people, male or female. I can usually tell within a couple minutes whether or not we'll click. If I meet a guy at a party and it doesn't pan out, I don't want to pursue a friendship with him. Likewise, women's bitch shields make them less welcoming to strange men coming up to them and talking with them. If they shut you down immediately then there's still a chance you could get with them, but why bother? I always go for girls I see checking me out or who stand close to me, since those are IOIs. Hell, the best bet is to wait for THEM to come to YOU.

It sounds like you have some self-esteem issues. Do you have a lot of friends? Do people gravitate towards you? If so then that means you're an enjoyable person. YOU are the most important person you need in your life. Think to yourself that everyone's lives will be better if they become a part of yours, and it's their loss if they want nothing to do with you.