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response to Roosh's latest?
#51

response to Roosh's latest?

Yes, I didn't mean to imply that this is what he said. My response was more a response to what Samseau wrote.
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#52

response to Roosh's latest?

Really nice post. I was waiting for a post like this when I read the post after the summer hiatus. Roosh, I'm really excited for you to keep fleshing out this new train of thought.

I think Roosh is right that pursuing notches solely for ego reasons after a while ends up being a vain attempt at real satisfaction and it is a problem that plagues all players. Roosh has touched on this before and many on this forum have come to this realization about the futility of pursuing sex for just another+1 in one way or another. I've posted on how I want to start pursuing more beautiful women even if I don't get as much fast, easy sex, even if I go a month without any new notches, and so on.

I know a couple of my bangs were for totally arbitrary, ego-based reasons and there was little other satisfaction other than, like Roosh said, the orgasm and updating a sex spreadsheet, keeping a streak alive of consecutive months with a new bang, and so on.

"Like a pendulum, I’ve swung from one extreme to the other, avoiding the path in the middle, where the game would be played to fulfill my biological urge for sex and female companionship while ignoring my ego’s attempts to compare my results with others or to have sex for the main purpose of sharing it with people I subconsciously want to impress."

I don't really know if it is so much as swinging between pendulums as a natural progression but I agree with Roosh's premise that you can go through a period of intense focus on being a player for a while. I think that pumping up your ego with a large quantity of bangs until it gets to a bit old is a normal phase in many guys' lives and it serves many important purposes:
* you can talk to beautiful women (8+) feeling like you've "graduated" from 6's and 7's and have an attractive demeanor and confidence that stems in part from your past success with women
* you can enjoy longer relationships with cute sweet, feminine, nurturing girls feeling like you aren't "missing out" on being able to go out and have one night stands with other girls because you've already sowed your wild outs, gotten tired of it, and can appreciate what you have more after having empirically experienced many and knowing that she has great characteristics
* you can not spend the time, energy, resources and frustration pursuing mediocre girls .. for example, you know you are doing something wrong if at the end of a first date with a girl you feel like deleting her number or insulting her if you don't get laid because the only reason you spent time with her was because you thought you had a good chance of getting sex.. or if you pass up girls that would be more enjoyable to interact with (in a club or a nice relationship or whatever) or get with girls for quicker sex.

However, I think the article fails to touch on other factors besides the three it implies: joys of relationships, the need for sexual release/pleasure, and validation of the ego. For example, this statement is only partially true: ".. but if they shut their blogs down, turn off the cameras, stop tracking bang metrics, stop tweeting, or stop sharing pictures, they’d be surprised themselves how quickly they would seek out traditional relationships"

Suppressing ego validation is a necessary but not sufficient condition for seeking a traditional relationship and giving up being a player.

I think that even once we suppress our ego, we still have other conflicting desires that prevent us from being perfectly happy with one girl. We have conflicting desires to feel the love, comfort and happiness of a relationship with a kind, nurturing, feminine girl; on the other hand, we desire multiple new women and the thrills of being single; we have the carnal desires to have sex with multiple women, especially new, young, hot ones (independent of any man's ego, it stings a man on some level to see a gorgeous woman walk by when he is holding his girlfriend's hand). Many of us seek to experience the adrenaline rush from going out and flirting with, dancing with, meeting and seducing women.. the chase, the conquest.. or even just acting crazy feeling like anything is possible.. When you are single, it's a thrill to leave your house and feel like truly anything can happen. That's not the case when you walk out the door with a girlfriend.

So I think we are all trying to find the balance that makes us happiest between
Love, comfort and stability
boosting our ego
physical sexual pleasure/release
satisfying a desire many new hot girls .. and ..
the thrill of seducing and feeling like anything can happen.

I think our natural likelihood of being a player depends on where we fall on the spectrum balancing all these five elements of the satisfaction of dating/seduction:

--- Spectrum of need for sexual pleasure ---
[ Low ---- High ] This could go both ways; I could see some guys needing the pleasure and release of sex so often that the dry spells and ups and downs of being single could be terrible for them. On the other hand, some guys with looks and game might need sex so badly that they need to build harems and fuck many girls a week, even two or more in the same day. A guy with a low sex drive could be content with a girlfriend or sporadic ONSs.

[ Love/comfort/stability -- no attachments/thrills/anything is possible ] tradeoff
We all value both; those who value thrills and the possibility of the unknown much more are not that likely to be players.
From what I have read about Roosh's game ("sniper" game, chatting girls up with dry humor, not getting too drunk, reading books until he leaves his house at 3 am to perfunctorily have sex with a girl in Iceland), he doesn't seem to make gaming into the epic crazy drunkfest that some people do and has at times described it as kind of a grind. I know I love going out and just getting into crazy shit -- running from cops, being the center of the attention in the dance floor, the life of the party, making people sing and air guitar along to songs with me and so on. Giving up the thrills not just of random sex but of just acting irresponsibly with the ever-present possibility of fucking a new girl at any second is really tough for me. But of course I love having someone who cares about me, is always there for me, and so on like most normal guys do.

This same tradeoff could be made for
[ Love/comfort/stability --- no feelings / satisfying desires for multiple new girls / unpredictable sex life ] tradeoff
Again, all guys want both, but which of these tends to be more satisfying to us is what makes us a satisfied player or not.

Ego validation is only a tradeoff between the joys of a relationship and the avoided hassles of being a player if you let it be. Taking ego out of the equation allows us to evaluate the true unavoidable tradeoffs between the joys of female companionship that we make when giving up a traditional, committed relationship or even less time intensive casual dating to be a major player.

If you focus only on the tradeoffs between the five elements of the satisfaction of female companionship, you may notice that you can get four out of five being a player and it seems like a good choice (even more so on this forum, obviously).

But, as Roosh notes, there are tradeoffs we make between the joys of dating/seduction and other sacrifices we have to make in life.

There are not too many shortcuts to getting girls to let you stick your junk inside them for free aside from being famous, so high notch counts and lots of +1s invariably mean financial costs, health sacrifices (alcohol/sleep), and above all tons of time -- lots of nights out drinking, day gaming, meeting girls for 1st and 2nd dates --- and that doesn't even count juggling girls after you've banged them. On one hand, I'm impressed by guys that talk about notch counts that average a girl per week, but on the other, I know from first-hand experience how much time it takes to be a serious player like that.. going out, staying up late to try to get SNLs, harvesting all those numbers, meeting all those girls… Being a major player is a full time job. For example, the two times in my life I've been in good enough shape to have a six pack and was objectively the most physically attractive, I didn't get any new sex (just one girl) because I was too focused on working out and eating right instead of drinking and chasing tail. When I've been a big time player, I ate and drank and slept badly and didn't put as much time or effort into my friendships. How many major players would say they have a handful of quality male friendships? How many of you have met a player who has no male friends and spends all his time trying to fuck new girls? What about the 50+ year old guys that sleep in hostels so they can go out in Medellin and try to hit on young girls? Guys that focus only on new pussy never end up being the great men that Roosh writes about in his book reviews.

Making the game a hobby, not a lifestyle is good advice. Being a major player is demanding on your money, health and time; taking a bit of a break from it can let you enjoy some of the joys of dating and seduction without going overboard. As the desires for novelty in our sex lives and excitement are pretty hard-wired (at least while we're younger), cutting ego validation out of the equation lets you make better decisions about the tradeoffs of the choice of how to date (dating/player) and how much to date (time and resources spent on meeting and seducing girls).
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#53

response to Roosh's latest?

I didn't really like the article.

Any time someone starts using the term "ego" in a loose manner, it makes me chuckle. It's a very oversimplified way of making sense of the human self. In truth, we have multiple self states that get activated at different times. There's really no such thing as the "ego" in my opinion. It's really just a construct. It's also a way of dis-associating from your own self and a way to view it as something separate, even evil. I believe we have a sense of self, and that the self is good. In buddhism, they turn the hindu concept of self on its head and instead espouse the view of "no-self" or anatta. I disagree with this. Buddhism is really a slave mentality when you boil it down. It's a denunciation of the real world, for a fantasy. Similar to Christianity.

I'm much more of a fan of the pagan way of viewing the world.


To even try and disentangle the social recognition component from the intrinsic pleasure component is not all that possible, and not really that relevant. It only seems relevant if you're banging unattractive or average women. We are such group oriented creatures that damn near everything we do has social repercussions and implications. Most celebrities I've read about don't say they get tired of fucking the hottest women in the world. I'm sure it was more exciting when they first became famous. Sure, bragging about it is an added bonus, but even if though many of them have to keep quiet about it (like politicians) they still fuck high end escorts all the time.

For men, we of course want to have many sexual partners, especially if our self esteem is low, because our society tells men that that is one component of being a true man. It also helps us fulfill a biological goal of inseminating as many women as possible.

But in Roosh's article he talks about wanting have sex with many new girls as though this was only to feed the ego, even though there is a mountain of evolutionary evidence to point towards it being an inborn habit.

Likewise, as far as pleasure is concerned, the anticipation of reward itself releases dopamine. In fact, getting what you want is many times not as good as the anticipation of getting what you want.

I definitely agree that fucking average or "okay" chicks out of insecurity is not a long term strategy, though before I hit 50 notches I did it a number of times.

Once you hit a certain notch count, you don't feel that insecurity anymore and no longer feel compelled to lower your standard for the sake of notches.
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#54

response to Roosh's latest?

Quote: (07-16-2013 07:27 PM)Tenerife Wrote:  

I didn't really like the article.

Any time someone starts using the term "ego" in a loose manner, it makes me chuckle. It's a very oversimplified way of making sense of the human self. In truth, we have multiple self states that get activated at different times. There's really no such thing as the "ego" in my opinion. It's really just a construct. It's also a way of dis-associating from your own self and a way to view it as something separate, even evil. I believe we have a sense of self, and that the self is good. In buddhism, they turn the hindu concept of self on its head and instead espouse the view of "no-self" or anatta. I disagree with this. Buddhism is really a slave mentality when you boil it down. It's a denunciation of the real world, for a fantasy. Similar to Christianity.

I'm much more of a fan of the pagan way of viewing the world.


To even try and disentangle the social recognition component from the intrinsic pleasure component is not all that possible, and not really that relevant. It only seems relevant if you're banging unattractive or average women. We are such group oriented creatures that damn near everything we do has social repercussions and implications. Most celebrities I've read about don't say they get tired of fucking the hottest women in the world. I'm sure it was more exciting when they first became famous. Sure, bragging about it is an added bonus, but even if though many of them have to keep quiet about it (like politicians) they still fuck high end escorts all the time.

For men, we of course want to have many sexual partners, especially if our self esteem is low, because our society tells men that that is one component of being a true man. It also helps us fulfill a biological goal of inseminating as many women as possible.

But in Roosh's article he talks about wanting have sex with many new girls as though this was only to feed the ego, even though there is a mountain of evolutionary evidence to point towards it being an inborn habit.

Likewise, as far as pleasure is concerned, the anticipation of reward itself releases dopamine. In fact, getting what you want is many times not as good as the anticipation of getting what you want.

I definitely agree that fucking average or "okay" chicks out of insecurity is not a long term strategy, though before I hit 50 notches I did it a number of times.

Once you hit a certain notch count, you don't feel that insecurity anymore and no longer feel compelled to lower your standard for the sake of notches.

I'd say the problem lies within "lowering your standard"

If it makes you hard, for whatever reason, are you really lowering your standards?

I also think that there are different modes that live within us. It's kind of like multiple personalities, but not so dramatic.

There is a turf war in the brain where these different modes battle each other for power.
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#55

response to Roosh's latest?

Quote: (07-16-2013 05:59 PM)bacan Wrote:  

There are not too many shortcuts to getting girls to let you stick your junk inside them for free aside from being famous, so high notch counts and lots of +1s invariably mean financial costs, health sacrifices (alcohol/sleep), and above all tons of time -- lots of nights out drinking, day gaming, meeting girls for 1st and 2nd dates --- and that doesn't even count juggling girls after you've banged them. On one hand, I'm impressed by guys that talk about notch counts that average a girl per week, but on the other, I know from first-hand experience how much time it takes to be a serious player like that.. going out, staying up late to try to get SNLs, harvesting all those numbers, meeting all those girls… Being a major player is a full time job. For example, the two times in my life I've been in good enough shape to have a six pack and was objectively the most physically attractive, I didn't get any new sex (just one girl) because I was too focused on working out and eating right instead of drinking and chasing tail. When I've been a big time player, I ate and drank and slept badly and didn't put as much time or effort into my friendships.

This is a great break-down of of truth. I've managed by trying to minimize the numbers of 2nd dates. 1st dates are a necessary evil in my experience. 2nd dates you can get to go the right way if you select them right from the 1st dates.

After that, rotation management is key. Two active girls in rotation is in my experience almost the most I can handle while maintaining family, friends, work, and exercise at a high level. Bring a third into the equation and it's doable but harder. New sex is usually the most exciting, but I'll trade that for more free time as long as the rotation is active.

I've also noticed that my effort level into finding new girls is inversely proportional to the attraction I have to the least attractive girl I am currently with.
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#56

response to Roosh's latest?

Quote: (07-15-2013 09:55 PM)Blaster Wrote:  

Quote: (07-15-2013 11:34 AM)WestCoast Wrote:  

The point is once you know they are all the same what is the point in ever getting into any sort of relationship? I really have no answer for this. They are all the same.

I'd say there's more to (most? some?) women than sexual attraction triggers. Loyalty, trustworthiness, intelligence, compassion (real, personal compassion not just look-at-how-much-I-care-about-gay-rights compassion), in general and also how she expresses her feelings about you specifically. It's great to feel loved and appreciated. Just have to beware that hypergamy hasn't gone away and the love and appreciation can disappear if you are too beta.

It can come and go, but when you get a bit older and more cynical there are definitely periods of your life where you feel nothing emotionally regardless of who you're with. This is probably a consequence of routine and lack of variety, but no one's life is just so varied and interesting all the time where you never feel like you're in a rut.

Depending on where you are in your life those kinds of connections may just not happen and you can't really force it either by just trying to get into a relationship and hoping things will change. You probably need to regain passion in other areas of your life first before you will start to feel it towards women again.
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#57

response to Roosh's latest?

Quote: (07-15-2013 11:34 AM)WestCoast Wrote:  

Great blog post and seems to be inspired by a lot of the dick measuring he has seen on the forum over the last 3 months or so (and still going).

Here is the part that concerns me that was not addressed. Once you learn game it becomes harder and harder to make an emotional connection or any real connection at all with a woman. I'll explain with a quick example:

{snip}

The point is once you know they are all the same what is the point in ever getting into any sort of relationship? I really have no answer for this. They are all the same.

a) real connection - I don't know the answer to this

b) the point of a relationship - aside from kids - Ideally the chick knows you, gets you, and you develop something with her that you don't get from some random 10 you've had in your bed.

It's kinda like your boys from college vs. the cool new guy in accounting that goes drinking with the office.

You can still get that level of intimacy and familiarity from a chick....right?

WIA
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#58

response to Roosh's latest?

Quote: (07-15-2013 02:14 PM)Ingocnito Wrote:  

Bravo. I learned from a very simple marketing/selling book I purchased about 15 years ago that the ego phase is merely the 2nd phase in mental development, in which 30-40% of the entire population operates from.

It is the mind phase that leads to the pleaser phase in which you recognize to get what you want, you have to please other egos. In Roosh's case some examples might be, $$ from an audience and a wet dick for performing his root learning research on banging women across the globe. He's pleased other ego's, by default or planning, to get what his ego wanted.. temporarily.

This link is awesome for perspective on how to deal with people, including yourself and your own mental development, by striving to operate from a universal mindset.

Operating out of any one phase for too long probably isn't all that healthy.

Great post Roosh!

thanks for the link

here's the proper one

Dealing with People
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#59

response to Roosh's latest?

Quote: (07-15-2013 02:49 PM)WestCoast Wrote:  

^ this right here gets to me.

What in the world is a good woman?

{snip}

The underlying problem it seems, is that once you learn game at a high level how in the world are you going to find a good woman. You know with certainty they act in the same fashion, so how can you possibly throw away the player lifestyle.

You see the married women checking you out.
You see the girl you're with give a flash of interst in another direction
You have watched women straight lie as they text their boyfriends/husbands in your very own bed knowing you would have been fooled just a few years prior
You have banged chicks who were Virgins, who were rich, who were highly educated, who were not educated, who were with their boyfriends for 5+ years and the list goes on...

Certainly a conundrum.

Yup. Once you've seen the light, you can't un-see it.

WIA
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#60

response to Roosh's latest?

Quote: (07-15-2013 02:49 PM)WestCoast Wrote:  

^ this right here gets to me.

What in the world is a good woman?

I agree with the vast majority of the post, 1) don't bang girls to brag to your friends if that is your purpose you're wasting your time and 2) don't use bangs for ego stroking.

The underlying problem it seems, is that once you learn game at a high level how in the world are you going to find a good woman. You know with certainty they act in the same fashion, so how can you possibly throw away the player lifestyle.

You see the married women checking you out.
You see the girl you're with give a flash of interst in another direction
You have watched women straight lie as they text their boyfriends/husbands in your very own bed knowing you would have been fooled just a few years prior
You have banged chicks who were Virgins, who were rich, who were highly educated, who were not educated, who were with their boyfriends for 5+ years and the list goes on...

Certainly a conundrum.

If you define "good" as faithful, then yes, it's a conundrum.

Some say that infidelity risks can be lowered to acceptable levels, but that's another issue. For me a good woman can have a high sex drive and be an infidelity risk, and does not have to be able to commit to a lifetime with me. She's good for as long as she's good.

Bonding is a joy in life, and being in love is the only sustainable way to have great happiness for more than a few days at a time. It can extend the joy out to several months, and sometimes as much as a year or more. Plenty of women are good enough for that.
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#61

response to Roosh's latest?

Quote: (07-16-2013 05:54 AM)Kieran Wrote:  

I also wonder how much of these realisations that we have with age are down to changes in hormones rather than becoming more enlightened. For example, men that were aggressive little shits in their teens and twenties, are not usually the same in their thirties and forties. These types will often renounce their past way of life, and proclaim that they have changed and became better people etc, but usually they look to me as if they just ran out of steam due to decreased testosterone. As Carlito said, "you don't change, you just run out of wind".

Good question. I had a net-debate with some guy who thought that owning your feminine nature would mean you had no more desire or need to fuck women. I told him that he was just rationalizing his age induced lack of libido as some sort of enlightened holy wisdom.

That said, it's obviously a serious issue - we do receive pleasure from ego boosts, and that particular pleasure can come at a price that is not worth it.

I'm of the opinion that ego boosts are fine and dandy. It's just a matter of cost benefit, and seeing a wider picture. Ego tunnel vision is a problem, ego stroking is not. Having sex for ego stroking is, I would agree, ego tunnel vision because it ignores that bonding is a great joy and value in life, and that it's possible to harm the ability to bond by fucking girls we aren't really into.

The issue of seeing game as just a means to nut, however often - be it three times a day or once a week - is a whole nuther ball of worms. If nutting is the reason for sex, then that's tunnel vision of a different sort.
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#62

response to Roosh's latest?

There are definitely hot women out there with high sexual drives and no infidelity risk. I think the short-phrase in the community is 'pair-bonding,' but anyone knows exactly what I'm talking about: She loves you, is honest and trustworthy, and commits her loyalty and love 100% [generally in return for same].

This does not happen overnite. Or over 3 weeks. Or 7 months.

So, if you're banging a new chick every 3 weeks-3 mos and wondering why you haven't met 'That Special Girl*...' I hate to tell you but there's your answer.




* That is not to say 'That Girl' you wanted will be perfect for you: She may want lots/not want kids, she may not live nearby, she may be older/younger than you hoped, she may be an awful cook, unambitious, like country music, hates travel etc.
But if you are really looking for a girl who is hot, faithful, loves sex, experimenting with, and loves you, you can't have the 'grocery checklist' mindset that 18-yr old girls have for the Perfect Guy. Well, you can, you just will never be happy.

ps Expecting your woman to never check out the hot guy with perfect abs at the beach is like expecting me not to check out naked Kate Upton on a horse - never going to happen.
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#63

response to Roosh's latest?

Quote: (07-16-2013 07:27 PM)Tenerife Wrote:  

I believe we have a sense of self, and that the self is good. In buddhism, they turn the hindu concept of self on its head and instead espouse the view of "no-self" or anatta. I disagree with this. Buddhism is really a slave mentality when you boil it down. It's a denunciation of the real world, for a fantasy. Similar to Christianity.

I agree in part. Discounting the meditative experience of unfiltered non-dual perception that is not bound by narrative, yes, coffee shop Buddhists and even those who might know better get confused about what transcending the ego could mean, and think it means to stop enjoying status or even any sense of identity. You're right - in practice Buddhism is a cult of betas who have no appreciation for the value of worldly power.
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#64

response to Roosh's latest?

Quote: (07-17-2013 09:50 PM)horn Wrote:  

There are definitely hot women out there with high sexual drives and no infidelity risk.

The whether a girl is going to be faithful to her guy is not something the guy can detect EVER.

A girl in fact may never cheat on her boyfriend/husband, but that's entirely within her discretion, not his.

He can't predict and he can not control. All he can do is have faith.

Which is the same bargain that she has.

WIA
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#65

response to Roosh's latest?

Quote: (07-17-2013 11:13 PM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:  

Quote: (07-17-2013 09:50 PM)horn Wrote:  

There are definitely hot women out there with high sexual drives and no infidelity risk.

The whether a girl is going to be faithful to her guy is not something the guy can detect EVER.

A girl in fact may never cheat on her boyfriend/husband, but that's entirely within her discretion, not his.

He can't predict and he can not control. All he can do is have faith.

Which is the same bargain that she has.

WIA

I agree which is why I laugh when guys coddled on PUA literature think "Oh, if I'm just Alpha enough no girl will ever fuck around on me." That kind of thinking is unrealistic.
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#66

response to Roosh's latest?

Agreed that even if there are girls who are no or low infidelity risk, that man can never know.

But some people openly conclude that since there are no Madonnas, therefore girls are not worthy.

I fail to see the logical connection. Why is extreme long term fidelity so important for emotional openness to so many? It's kind of like Liz Lemon holding out to marry astronaut Mike Dexter. Ok, so there is no perfection. Problem?
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#67

response to Roosh's latest?

"Not even one day after the best sex in your life, it will tell you to go to the club and put in more approaches. Your ego will take over if you let it, controlling you like a master controls a slave, using your body as a means to lift it to lofty heights where the view may be nice but the air is thin."

This is the best part here, I felt this way a couple of years ago until I realized that I was putting more work into this, and getting nothing lasting out of it. . .so I decided to focus on making money (still working on that) which brought me some crazy experiences. . .including making a lot of mistakes (I fell into the above ego trap and didn't decide to change ventures quickly enough before it fell apart. . .another time for that story though) now I'm working on both, but by doing it a lot more easily than I did before.

This is why I'm just fine with internet game, to me its easy, and quick (since I do get laid from it) also, once you stop taking pictures of women you sleep with. . .you get time to focus on them in bed. . .which gets them addicted to you.

I always like to advocate doing what YOU are CALLED to do, and "Taking it easy" I have seen a lot of guys on many different forums (here included) bash others for "not working hard hard hard to get better looking women or whatever" When in reality all that "work" is what pushes those hot women away! They can smell the hard work you put into gaming them and yeah maybe while sometimes it might impress them enough that said guy can luck up on some pussy, after a while (like quickly) she wakes up and realizes that this guy isn't "Alpha"

I want women to be easy a pleasure, I want it to flow and be fun. I don't want to have to "put on my game face" or "get myself in state" etc etc. I realized a couple years ago that its a waste of time. Pretty much how I do game now is to take the oportunities that arise when I see them. If I see IOI's from a girl that I'd bang, Ill say hi. if I don't I continue on with my day.

A lot of guys say that is "bad" and "you should do more" or even in the would you bang thread on here, guys would comment on obviously attractive women, and point out the reasons why they would not bang (even though everyone knows they would).

I'm glad Roosh actaully points this out, because its the HUGE elephant in the room, that no one wants to address: We are working too hard for pussy.

Our grandparents and great grandparents didn't need "game" pussy came naturally. Ask your parents about stories of your grand fathers. My grandfather had all kinds of women even though he was married. He controlled his household and the family. and this was. . .NORMAL!

For a guy to have to do all this "game" etc other than just, 1) talk to the girl 2)meet her up for coffee/drinks sometime later 3)taker her to your place for the bang or just get the bang on the second date (and then next her if she doesn't bang/gives attitude) is pretty abnormal. A lot of guys in the "community" are working WAY too hard at this at the expense of. . .their lives. They are doing it so much that it makes them just socially weird! I met many guys from city lair forums that I was a member of and they were W E I R D! It was obvious that they were trying to hide their social issues. . .as they were failing hard at that.

its kinda like pook says, a lot of dudes are trying to get women instead of following their dreams first (which automatically brings the women in. . .and money too!) this makes guys unhappy, and when they try to mask and hide that, they become weird.

For many men "game" and the "community" has pretty much ruined them, when they could have just went to thailand with the money they were making from a business they made that was successful.

Once guys know the basics of game, and know not to "push through LMR" and instead just find girls who are easy for them to bang, then the guy just needs to stop looking at game forums. He's done!

in fact, about 98% of all the questions on the game thread can be answered in about a sentence.

Girl does this this and that? she's probably not interested or you'd be banging her.

Girl does that that and that? Why didn't you bang her?

Girl throws b. s. at you? dump her and call another girl in your stable who doesn't give you b.s.

Don't have a stable of easy, non-bitchy women to call up at a moments notices? Find girls who are giving you IoI's and say HI to them. Then do some online game during a weekend when you aren't able to go out, or aren't doing anything.

Want lots of women? disregard them and work on your calling/passion, don't take b.s. when they flock to you.

The whole community right now is in a bad spot. and the guys are probably going to get weirder.

Isaiah 4:1
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#68

response to Roosh's latest?

Quote: (07-15-2013 03:29 PM)Acute Angle Wrote:  

Mature and perceptive blog post by Roosh. I think it relates to 2Wycked's post about overcoming narcissism, which didn't get the attention it deserved, IMHO.

It strikes me that we are in a narcissistic arms race with women. Their sources of narcissistic supply are increasing seemingly exponentially (viz Patricia's Smartphone), and in response we guys have to jump though more hoops just to get noticed by them.

The thing is, is that because of the sources of narcissism grows exponentially with women, that men believe they have to compete with them, when in reality, all they need to do, is: a) follow their calling/dreams etc b) not take crap from women c) not get married.

Then women will be knocking their door down to get with them.

Isaiah 4:1
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#69

response to Roosh's latest?

@CJ-W In theory I agree, but the nitty-gritty details are what we discuss. There a lot of nuances to every situation and seeing other discuss it and debate is revealing.

But yes as I have gotten more women and better "Game" I've actually done less than more. I don't run around willy nilly anymore. In fact, I am a bit of a sniper. Wait, wait, wait then pounce and get that headshot. But, I know I can run around in the trenches if I need too. Everybody should feel like that, so your advice is long-term correct but for those starting it- you need to hit those hours struggling.

Its a process-derived ability not knowledge based activity.

WIA- For most of men, our time being masters of our own fate, kings in our own castles is short. Even those of us in the game will eventually succumb to ease of servitude rather than deal with the malaise of solitude
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#70

response to Roosh's latest?

Relevant article:

http://elitedaily.com/dating/gentlemen/g...-unicorns/

"We live in a very strange world, a world where love is cursed by polygamy, sex has lost its value, and women have changed drastically. From once having morals and respect for themselves, girls are running around now with not a bit of dignity.

Sure you can call it generation YOLO and women seizing the moment and just living life and having fun like they like to call it, but it just leaves me hoping I never end up with a daughter. Don’t get me wrong — I’m all about having fun: the quick sex, the quick thrill and the terrible Facebook photos that you get tagged in the next day, but there has to be some sort of a line.

For men, it’s great that these women have decided to become just like us. They’ve taken the male approach to sex and the way we treat the other gender. It is almost like they have become a mirror image of men in our love for a multitude of partners. This is great, because it cuts out a lot of the hard work that men used to have to go through to woo a woman to get what they ultimately want.

Sure women have become independent, which is a great feat and should constantly be encouraged, but that is the positive side of women rising to power in our society. With every pro there happens to be a con, and the con here is that most of these women have completely lost all respect for themselves, and their morals along the way.

They’ve become thirsty for attention, from posting half naked photos on Instagram to having their whole lives exposed on the internet, through the course of hashtags. Then you have drugs, cocaine and molly being predominant, and many women addicted to prescription pills to help their “anxiety.” In short, women have become easy, but they have also become broken — and eventually become undesirable because no one stays hot forever.

Sure we men are to blame for this as well, but that is because we are idiots. It all comes down to perception. Women see us drool over that hot girl that is standing half naked in her default picture or see us go wild when we easily get the number to a hot girl we just met on the street. To a man’s perception this seems “right” because it’s exactly what we want: sex without much effort. But for women from the outside looking in, they think that this is what we want, and it skews their perception.

That is when we want to settle down, but with a lady who has respect for herself, morals — and there isn’t one guy out there that can have a bad story to tell about her — like the time she had a threesome in a London hostel while studying abroad.

Because of the double standard that is in place between men and women, finding a girl of this nature wasn’t that hard decades ago because women actually held high standards for themselves and demanded men to treat them properly before they gave them what they wanted.

The truth of the matter nowadays is that good girls, as we like to call them, don’t really exist. They are unicorns. You are lucky if you come across one that is actually who she says she is. We sometimes even joke that our future wives are currently in Kindergarten because it is comforting to know that she is currently playing with blocks and not swinging from dick to dick because they sell her a good enough story. And when she’s 18 we’ll snap her right up and she’ll have no exposure to being a slut.

Men are going to want to settle down with a good girl, a girl that is respectable and not someone that has been with everyone — as that is every man’s fear. The older you get, the more you realize that it is a fantasy that doesn’t actually exist. When you actually meet one, you will refuse to admit she’s real anyways.

My question is what happened to a girl impressing us with her intellect and being able to hold a conversation past: do you come here often? Why has it become the standard that women have to impress men by flashing their tits or dressing up half naked? Sure we may seem dumb when we are chasing smuts, but when we do actually want to settle down with a female, she has to meet the standards that we have for a girl with whom we want to settle down.

Through my experiences, as well as the experiences of many other men, it’s hard to come across a good girl or a unicorn. We’re not asking for much here, just a girl that respects herself and is smart to the point where she would understand us.

But then there is the other side of the spectrum, that when we do actually find a unicorn and settle down, our ego gets a bit ahead of ourselves and we find them a bit too boring for our liking, so we decide to cheat. It’s like a double-edged sword. You realize it wasn’t getting the unicorn, but rather attracting something you thought never existed. It always is about the chase and never about the perfection of the woman. And that is the mindset of men in the 21st century.

What we look for is a lady on the street and a freak in the bed, as Ludacris once explained. The problem is that most girls are freaks everywhere, which leaves us with fewer options when trying to settle down. Unicorns are tough to find, and if you do stumble upon one, do everything in your power to hold onto her, as the chase is only fun for so long — and we do have a sense of compassion and companionship we like to share with a partner.

Those are the natural instincts of a man. Ladies, men are not going to respect you if you don’t respect yourselves. It’s that simple."
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#71

response to Roosh's latest?

Quote: (07-17-2013 11:13 PM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:  

Quote: (07-17-2013 09:50 PM)horn Wrote:  

There are definitely hot women out there with high sexual drives and no infidelity risk.

The whether a girl is going to be faithful to her guy is not something the guy can detect EVER.

A girl in fact may never cheat on her boyfriend/husband, but that's entirely within her discretion, not his. ...
Which is the same bargain that she has.

WIA

Disagree with the former, agree with the latter.

I'm not saying you can 'detect' it on day one, far from it.
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#72

response to Roosh's latest?

There is something to this article, but a lot of it is Madonna/Whore BS.
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#73

response to Roosh's latest?

Quote: (07-18-2013 06:54 PM)tiggaling Wrote:  

There is something to this article, but a lot of it is Madonna/Whore BS.

I think the Madonna/Whore complex isn't just cultural. It seems rooted in female behavior. There really is a stark dichotomy in the behavior of women playing either the sexual or maternal role. Moreover, there's a kind of psychological segregation that women perform in acting out these two social roles, as lover versus mother/wife. You don't see this same sort of schism in male behavior to remotely the same extent.
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#74

response to Roosh's latest?

Quote: (07-18-2013 07:20 PM)Therapsid Wrote:  

Quote: (07-18-2013 06:54 PM)tiggaling Wrote:  

There is something to this article, but a lot of it is Madonna/Whore BS.

I think the Madonna/Whore complex isn't just cultural. It seems rooted in female behavior. There really is a stark dichotomy in the behavior of women playing either the sexual or maternal role. Moreover, there's a kind of psychological segregation that women perform in acting out these two social roles, as lover versus mother/wife. You don't see this same sort of schism in male behavior to remotely the same extent.

Dad vs Cad?

People have different sociosexual orientations. What causes modern men the greatest pain is when their sociosexual orientation (their desire for new partners without commitment) is lower then that of the average womans. While women do have an average lower SS score, the Dad strategists who can’t find women with even greater respect for dedicated monogamy have a tough time especially now when society is structured such that their offering of fidelity and provisioning is worth so little to women.

But even if these instinctual mating strategies are hard wired and set in individuals, guys who want Madonas and can’t imagine loving a woman who is a fidelity risk must certainly still have emotional options, right? Wrong? It’s difficult for me to imagine being stuck treating women like objects to pump and dump just because lifetime monogamy is no longer on the table. That seems so black and white. Is the instinct for the low SS guy Dad strategists THAT deeply set and programmed?
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#75

response to Roosh's latest?

Quote: (07-18-2013 10:46 AM)DVY Wrote:  

@CJ-W In theory I agree, but the nitty-gritty details are what we discuss. There a lot of nuances to every situation and seeing other discuss it and debate is revealing.

But yes as I have gotten more women and better "Game" I've actually done less than more. I don't run around willy nilly anymore. In fact, I am a bit of a sniper. Wait, wait, wait then pounce and get that headshot. But, I know I can run around in the trenches if I need too. Everybody should feel like that, so your advice is long-term correct but for those starting it- you need to hit those hours struggling.

Its a process-derived ability not knowledge based activity.

There really isn't much more than what I said above, and people definitely don't need to put in hours struggling either.

the only work that they really need to do most of all is on themselves first.

Get their body in shape, wear decent clothes (no need to go GManifesto but still) find something they enjoy and pour themselves into it.

The only real detaily stuff they need to know, is to not take shit from women, and to not be afraid to lose them, and that's easy it takes like a few sentences:

If she's making you mad, stop talking for a while.
If she keeps it up go home/leave/do stuff you like for the next few days and don't call her.
IF she keeps doing it, never call her back. ..

Yeah there's details but its really easy to simplify them tom leykis style as most of it really is common sense. Thing is, a lot of "newbies" just don't have enough confidence in themselves and lose themselves in learning tons of techniques and "Stuff" and feeling like they HAVE to "put in the hours and struggle" and they don't. . .I found that out the hard way. I put in the hours struggling, only to realize that I got more pussy when I didn't put in those hours than when I did!

The community has its place, but I think they're sending the wrong message.

The message is: you ALREADY have everything you need to succeeed with women and life, and here's why. . . etc etc

(pretty much women need men, so be men)

Then they can go into the details, that isn't much really.

A friend of mine who was a big part of the pua comminity back in the old mASF days told me:

"If a woman makes you mad, you've lost."

Basically, if you as a MAN don't know your own inherit value (it is really high compared to women btw) then women can make you mad, and that pushes them away (they know you're a chump)

but if they don't and you know your value, and refuse to deal with B.S. (because you have something great going on in your life) then you're going to have to fight women off with a stick.

One day when I get a chance, I'm going to have to write a book about all of this. It seems like a LOT of men have forgotten how great/valuable they are. . .which is why feminists are taking over. If a ton of more guys knew all this, and decided not to take their B.S. Women would eventually have to shape up, as their supply of cock would run out as guys go to asia or ee or something to find better women. A lot of guys need to wake up.

But I kinda think that will happen eventually. . .maybe the book I write will help it along a bit.

Isaiah 4:1
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