[soup]

(07-15-2013 05:21 PM)Roosh Wrote:  

The boner test is a good guide here. The older you get, the less sensitive your boner is, so moving up in quality is built into the crust, so to speak. There is a gradual increase in quality as time goes on and your value goes up, so I don't see it as something that warrants a specific goal. That said, I do pursue girls on the top end of the beauty curve, moreso to appreciate beauty for its sake, instead of to feel better about my station as a man.

Would you say that it's just from age or experience in the game that tempers your boner?

Also, do you think that the gradual increase in quality and value results from grinding away at the game (building notches etc.) or aging without game?

Does banging 30 6-7s bring you any closer to banging a 9? I think that if you are starting out, the answer is yes because you need the experience.

If you are several years in the game, and your goal is to be banging 9s, and you are still banging mostly lower quality girls, then that is a cause for concern.

I started posting in the I-Just-Had-Sex-Thread a couple of years ago because I wanted to get feedback and share info like the lay-reports of early 2000s game. I also like the idea of stealing away to post a notch while the girl is in the bathroom washing out her pussy.

My big goals for this year have been to push for hotter girls, and to also break the summer dry spell that has haunted me for the last several years. So far, so good.

I believe game does get rusty without practice. If your goal is to have options, than it makes sense to exercise the game muscles.

[Vitriol]

(07-15-2013 03:29 PM)Acute Angle Wrote:  

It strikes me that we are in a narcissistic arms race with women. Their sources of narcissistic supply are increasing seemingly exponentially (viz Patricia's Smartphone), and in response we guys have to jump though more hoops just to get noticed by them. Because of the often high sunk-costs of gaming women, we end up attaching more value to the notch than we should do, and that means we go in for bragging and other ego-inflating behaviours. "I really twisted myself in knots to get all of this pussy, so it's worth shouting about, right?... Right, guys?" I know I haven't expressed the idea as well as I could have, but I think there's some truth in there.

This is definitely a huge issue and I don't see it getting better anytime soon.

For an average guy to get laid he has to: get in shape, dress decently, spend lots of time and effort going out, usually spend money on alcohol, waste time in venues that turn into sausage parties or interactions with girls that go nowhere, etc.

Despite all that effort you can still go home with nothing but a hangover, an empty wallet, and a case of the blue balls.

Naturally, if you are actually successful there's going to be a desire to tell your bros how you were finally a "winner" because you got to stick your dick in some slut for a few minutes, even if the amount of time and resources you spent to get there is disproportionate to the reward.

This is where Roosh said:

Quote:

In these cases, the primary pleasure you felt was the ten-second orgasm, which may have taken hours to accomplish. Your ego felt everything else, taking away the enjoyment that should have been present in the seduction, the kiss, the intimacy, the rapport. Your ego tricked you, convincing you that you need or must get laid, but after the orgasm, when you realize the experience was barely satisfying, you notice your ego has already skipped out, leaving you stuck with the bill. It doesn’t care about how you feel or how little you’ve actually gained from your efforts, just that it was fed before you.

Sometimes I guess you just have to ask yourself if all of that is worth it.

[Roosh]

(07-15-2013 05:55 PM)soup Wrote:  

Would you say that it's just from age or experience in the game that tempers your boner?

Experience. If you go ten years without sex, will your boner be tempered? If anything it will come alive at even lower quality. But if you bang a ton of girls in a short amount of time, age plays almost no part in the desensitization that will result.

Quote:

Also, do you think that the gradual increase in quality and value results from grinding away at the game (building notches etc.) or aging without game?

If a man aged in a basement without female interaction, but he read 1,000 books, and then he went out to hit on girls, how do you think he would fare? Not very well. To achieve even a minimum sex life, some grind is required.

Quote:

Does banging 30 6-7s bring you any closer to banging a 9? I think that if you are starting out, the answer is yes because you need the experience.

Yes, but less than most guys think, because the increase in difficulty as you move up is logarithmic, not a small step. Going from a 2 to 4 can happen quite quickly, a matter of a month of game practice, but moving from a 7 to a 9 can take many years, and for many guys it will not happen once in their lives.

[speakeasy]

(07-15-2013 06:28 PM)Roosh Wrote:  

Yes, but less than most guys think, because the increase in difficulty as you move up is logarithmic, not a small step. Going from a 2 to 4 can happen quite quickly, a matter of a month of game practice, but moving from a 7 to a 9 can take many years, and for many guys it will not happen once in their lives.

Reminds me of working out. When I squatted for the first time I could barely do 50lbs. Each week I added 10 lbs and in no time doubled that. But as I progressed, getting to the next level became extraordinarily harder until I hit a plateau I couldn't seem to break past.

[Blaster]

(07-15-2013 11:34 AM)WestCoast Wrote:  

The point is once you know they are all the same what is the point in ever getting into any sort of relationship? I really have no answer for this. They are all the same.

I'd say there's more to (most? some?) women than sexual attraction triggers. Loyalty, trustworthiness, intelligence, compassion (real, personal compassion not just look-at-how-much-I-care-about-gay-rights compassion), in general and also how she expresses her feelings about you specifically. It's great to feel loved and appreciated. Just have to beware that hypergamy hasn't gone away and the love and appreciation can disappear if you are too beta.

[Sonsowey]

Is it possible that this less sex direction is a direct result of living in the FSU where Roosh admits that getting pussy takes much more dedication and hard work than he was used to?

I mean, when he was in slutty countries, he was all about banging sluts in as little time as possible. A sensible move in the U.S. or Latin America.

Now he's somewhere where SNLs aren't so common. Suddenly, he doesn't need sex all the time. Lots of sex is pointless and ego-stroking.

Is it possible he's just writing off lots of sex as an ego-saving mechanism? Now that he's not getting lots of sex, he thinks getting lots of sex is pointless. He saves face. But is it all just protecting his ego to frame it as some sort of grand paradigm shift?

Would be interested to see his opinion after a stay somewhere sluttier.

[tiggaling]

I think there can be this real craw like schizophrenia in the manosphere, on the one hand, sex is deemed to be important, and can be felt to be significant in and of itself; on the other hand there is a nihlism, that "sex" is pointless, sex is meaningless, just a means to getting your rocks off.

I think it is a really a matter of re-adjusting one's frame, one's framework and understanding, of what sex is and how it works or what women are and how they work.

No doubt, the "cold hearted playa" is not the most constructive or beneficial archetype or framework to operate from.

There is good stuff here, very good stuff; personally, I struggle with how to make this all work, beset by misunderstandings from so many.

I applaud Roosh's honesty, it really cuts like a knife, but I feel his prescriptions will not fit everyone, and that his view of the world will continue to grow and evolve.

[iknowexactly]

(07-15-2013 03:03 PM)WestCoast Wrote:  

No woman is good or bad they are all the same is my point. I have no hatred or anything if that's what you're referring to.

What I mean is, you can't really have a relationship with a woman because you know her attraction to you is just a bunch of correctly pressed buttons.

I disagree, for myself anyway. This viewpoint is excessively reductionistic. Men and women develop real, honest attachments to others. Women have to be more able to switch sides to whoever is the current "winner", but that has been necessitated by evolution-- most women would not like their husbands killed and to become the sex slaves of the new victorious tribe.

This view is also excessively perfectionistic. Just because a woman doesn't act with total honorable loyalty in every situation doesn't mean she has no attachment at all.

You personally may have less tendency to bond than others, but I still doubt you really develop no emotional attachment at all to any woman. THis sounds like someone defending an intellectualized self-image, "I'm too smart to let them trick me, I feel nothing."

A reductionist viewpoint ignores, for most people, the imprint that others make on them.

Think how we can recognize the face and voice of another, out of millions of people. You could reductionistically say that our social tendencies "only" evolved for survival, but that ignores the psychological reality that people feel specific things for specific people.

This view is like dissecting a frog, saying it's dead, and pointing out that is was just an assemblage of liver, heart spine anyway. Before you picked it apart, it had a totality as a functioning frog. But now you refute this former "life"; it was an illusion, and the reality is the dead components we see.

So even though, yes, a frog can be correctly described as a set of lungs, liver, kidneys, that's not all it is.

[OGNorCal707]

Great blog post by Roosh, definitely an instant classic. I like Roosh's new direction, I think it's real, authentic, and human. I don't want to sound like hater, but I always thought that Roosh was kind of shallow and empty, and filled with a lot of negativity. Roosh almost came off as kind of robotic as far as how he would approach seduction and sex, a recipe that led him to a lot of notches, but in kind of a cold, calculating, and mechanical way.

I've always been a fan of the "middle path" as an amateur philosopher this always seemed to be a recurring theme, when it comes to finding peace and happiness in life. We need to find a balance, and it is not good to be on either extreme, a virgin who never has sex, or a guy whose life is ruled by his desires and addictions, which will never be truly fulfilled.

My experience in the game has been different from others, and I haven't had near the amount of success as some guys, but I can say reflecting back that I used game to build up my ego, but it was built with a faulty and fragile foundation. I used game and my subsequent notches to gain validation, and feel like I have accomplished something, or proved something to the guys who used to clown me when I wasn't getting any.

Even though I have always looked to Roosh as a modern day prophet of sorts, I always could see his hubris, his ego, and is desire for external validation through the form of the "game community." It's okay, very understandable, he is only human and behaving in this way is often a by product of the human condition, especially in the culture and society that most of us in the "western world" are raised with.

I've got to say though, that Roosh is showing us that he hasn't peaked, he is still growing, and evolving, and becoming a better man, which is something that we should all strive for and work towards. So often whether it be in "game", masculinity, politics, or whatever we let a certain dogma dictate how we act and view the world, and our value within it. In terms of the game community it could be how many notches you have, how many flags, how many 8+ women, etc. These are all metrics that guys try to use to determine their self worth, but it's all born out of ego, and as I believe Roosh states, the ego can be like a "parasite" which feeds off our true self and is never satisfied.

I have always appreciated the Buddhist and Hindu philosophical notions of killing the ego, because I believe the ego masks us, separates us, and distorts our true selves. When we are ruled by ego, we are constantly seeking and needing external validation, and comparing ourselves to others, and feeling the need to feel superior to others.

While a lot of Roosh's followers may feel that the rug has been pulled out from underneath them, I think Roosh is shifting in a positive direction, which will bring completeness and unity to his philosophy, a yin to the yang if you will.

[Nomad77]

This is just another example that ultimately happiness lies not in the direction of More but in Less. Doesn't matter what it is and how much you like it, the more of it you experience the less joy it will bring. The only way around this is to reset your expectations: go back to zero! If you really want to enjoy sex you have to not have it for awhile then you will enjoy it again. You don't get more joy from more sex you get it from going from none to some. And this applies to everything in life. The joy you got from your first car was far greater than the joy you got from upgrading to the latest BMW or Mercedes even though that first car was probably nothing close to the car you have now. The greatest joy you will get from food is going from starvation to any food, not from almost full to the best meal money can buy.

[Nomad77]

@OGNorCal707 I agree. These were pretty much my view of Roosh too. Ultimately he may provide a blue print for men to follow at all the various points in their lives - I hope he does.

[the_conductor]

Seems like Roosh had the notch itch going longer than others (10 years while 5-7 would already have fatigued most). I vaguely remember a post or thread a while back where he was saying something along the lines of not taking so-called PUAs who have graduated on to "self-improvement" very seriously, and that you're either in the game or you're not.

And of course, the infamous Do it for the Notch post - “If I ever find myself in a funk, complacent and lacking motivation, tired of pussy, of the grind, of running game, I’m going to put on a suit and fuck the ugliest girl I can find.”

Now like them he's growing sick of it and starting to come around to the same place. The idea's hardly revolutionary, burnt out PUAs and Pook have been posting about it as early as 2000 - that chasing notches should only be the icing on your cake, a slightly amusing garnish on a life already worth living to you even without the pussy. Dedicating your life to only living for notches long term isn't healthy.

The question is why some can easily answer the question "WTF should I do with my life" (outside of getting girls) and others not? A small number of guys genuinely have a passion for something and want to dedicate their whole lives to it while 95% of us will spend the rest of our lives continuing to search for our "purpose" without fruition and still be on the hedonistic treadmill, whether it's chasing money or new bangs, all for the ego.

[Kieran]

I don't believe that the ego and the "true self" are mutually exclusive, and so I embrace both parts of me. I don't believe we should strive to kill the ego, but rather have a better balance between the two.

Somewhat related is the theory of task and ego motivation in sport psychology which says that ego oriented individuals define success in relation to others and are motivated by external rewards (winning, receiving praise, etc), whereas task oriented individuals measure success using a self referenced criteria and are usually driven by pure enjoyment of the task, as well as task mastery, and improvements on past performance. Generally, athletes score very high on both the ego scale and the task scale.

[Kieran]

I also wonder how much of these realisations that we have with age are down to changes in hormones rather than becoming more enlightened. For example, men that were aggressive little shits in their teens and twenties, are not usually the same in their thirties and forties. These types will often renounce their past way of life, and proclaim that they have changed and became better people etc, but usually they look to me as if they just ran out of steam due to decreased testosterone. As Carlito said, "you don't change, you just run out of wind".

[Divorco]

(07-15-2013 05:21 PM)Roosh Wrote:  

"Higher quality" to whom?

Yes, when I see a couple, I try to give the woman an extra point or two because she is probably his type.

(07-15-2013 05:21 PM)Roosh Wrote:  

The older you get, the less sensitive your boner is, so moving up in quality is built into the crust, so to speak. There is a gradual increase in quality as time goes on and your value goes up

Are you saying older guys are less horny, and need prettier women to get sexually motivated? Your phrase "less sensitive" could alternatively be interpreted as "less selective". I think you are also saying that guys get more wealth, status, and game as we age.

[Arado]

Perhaps this is the moment when the manosphere evolves into something more. Of course, it hasn't always been only about picking up girls, but I feel like everything else it advocated (self improvement, travel, fitness, style, reading) was indirectly related.

Excited to see where this goes.

[soup]

(07-16-2013 02:13 AM)Nomad77 Wrote:  

This is just another example that ultimately happiness lies not in the direction of More but in Less. Doesn't matter what it is and how much you like it, the more of it you experience the less joy it will bring. The only way around this is to reset your expectations: go back to zero! If you really want to enjoy sex you have to not have it for awhile then you will enjoy it again. You don't get more joy from more sex you get it from going from none to some. And this applies to everything in life. The joy you got from your first car was far greater than the joy you got from upgrading to the latest BMW or Mercedes even though that first car was probably nothing close to the car you have now. The greatest joy you will get from food is going from starvation to any food, not from almost full to the best meal money can buy.

This isn't always true. Sometime pleasure begets pleasure.

[thegmanifesto]

(07-16-2013 02:47 AM)the_conductor Wrote:  

The question is why some can easily answer the question "WTF should I do with my life" (outside of getting girls) and others not? A small number of guys genuinely have a passion for something and want to dedicate their whole lives to it while 95% of us will spend the rest of our lives continuing to search for our "purpose" without fruition and still be on the hedonistic treadmill, whether it's chasing money or new bangs, all for the ego.

That is the hard part.

You take partying out of the equation then what the f*ck do you do?

Especially from the hours of 9pm-5am?

What is the replacement?

Working out? We already do that.

Giving up The Life leaves a huge hole in your day.

[soup]

(07-16-2013 11:55 AM)thegmanifesto Wrote:  

(07-16-2013 02:47 AM)the_conductor Wrote:  

The question is why some can easily answer the question "WTF should I do with my life" (outside of getting girls) and others not? A small number of guys genuinely have a passion for something and want to dedicate their whole lives to it while 95% of us will spend the rest of our lives continuing to search for our "purpose" without fruition and still be on the hedonistic treadmill, whether it's chasing money or new bangs, all for the ego.

That is the hard part.

You take partying out of the equation then what the f*ck do you do?

Especially from the hours of 9pm-5am?

What is the replacement?

Working out? We already do that.

Giving up The Life leaves a huge hole in your day.

I think an argument can be made that all of man's activities are an expression of game.

We celebrate life by having sex. We are lucky to be in a situation where we are even able to work on this and get better. It's an honor to be a player in this sense.

Would it be such a terrible thing if there were no "higher" goals?

Most zen masters would say that enlightenment exists right in front of your nose.

If you don't know what to do with your life, you need to learn how to tune out the bullshit and learn how to listen to you soul. What does it want?

I say start with quenching the most obvious desires first before going after any intellectual goals. You need to build a foundation before you build the higher floors.

[worldwidetraveler]

(07-16-2013 11:55 AM)thegmanifesto Wrote:  

That is the hard part.

You take partying out of the equation then what the f*ck do you do?

Especially from the hours of 9pm-5am?

What is the replacement?

Working out? We already do that.

Giving up The Life leaves a huge hole in your day.

I think there is a big difference between going out to have fun and some of the stuff I read on this forum.

I like to go out and have fun. I talk to everyone. I don't have a set plan besides enjoyment. I get laid because of it. I don't doubt I would get laid more if I focused mainly on getting laid but that takes away from being more relaxed and the enjoyment that follows.

I understand the compulsive behavior in order to get really good at something. Compulsive behavior tends to work best when you really enjoy what you are doing. Reading some of the posts here, I don't think I would enjoy the routine some of the guys go through.

I think if you enjoy the process, there is no reason to stop. If you are forcing yourself just to make a goal, this should be a means to an end.

Hopefully a short term thing at that.

[soup]

(07-16-2013 12:21 PM)worldwidetraveler Wrote:  

(07-16-2013 11:55 AM)thegmanifesto Wrote:  

That is the hard part.

You take partying out of the equation then what the f*ck do you do?

Especially from the hours of 9pm-5am?

What is the replacement?

Working out? We already do that.

Giving up The Life leaves a huge hole in your day.

I think there is a big difference between going out to have fun and some of the stuff I read on this forum.

I like to go out and have fun. I talk to everyone. I don't have a set plan besides enjoyment. I get laid because of it. I don't doubt I would get laid more if I focused mainly on getting laid but that takes away from being more relaxed and the enjoyment that follows.

I understand the compulsive behavior in order to get really good at something. Compulsive behavior tends to work best when you really enjoy what you are doing. Reading some of the posts here, I don't think I would enjoy the routine some of the guys go through.

I think if you enjoy the process, there is no reason to stop. If you are forcing yourself just to make a goal, this should be a means to an end.

Hopefully a short term thing at that.

Yes, but there are a lot of guys who just go out to have fun who don't get laid. It doesn't "just happen" for them.

There is definitely something to be said for creating a vibe or ride for the girl. The experience of hanging out with you has to blow out her hamster- she's has to be so caught up in the moment with you that she doesn't realize that she's giving it up.

[worldwidetraveler]

(07-16-2013 01:28 PM)soup Wrote:  

Yes, but there are a lot of guys who just go out to have fun who don't get laid. It doesn't "just happen" for them.

There is definitely something to be said for creating a vibe or ride for the girl. The experience of hanging out with you has to blow out her hamster- she's has to be so caught up in the moment with you that she doesn't realize that she's giving it up.

Agree, I must have been doing some things right. This forum has taught me to be more self aware in those social interactions. I saw some of the things I was naturally doing when I got laid so I can duplicate it consistently.

I definitely learned some great stuff from this forum which has helped when I remember to try them out. heh

[Samseau]

It's a great post but I guess I've never shared the problem Roosh has. For me game has always been a hobby to satisfy the basic need for sex, nothing more. I don't really worry about whether or not I get the hottest women nor do I care if I can get laid regularly. I've always thought Dry Spells were fun challenges to overcome and I've talked about it in my "Reflections on the No-Dating Challenge."

I do my best and go for the hottest girls I can, and then I accept whatever happens afterwards. Get laid? Great. Go home alone? Time for weed books and/or a video game. It's all the same to me, I'm just using my leisure time in a way that brings me the most pleasure and satisfaction out of life.

The fact is happiness does not come from accomplishments because accomplishments do not exist without the ego. Accomplishments only hold meaning in a world where you can compare your results to someone else's accomplishments, thus if there was no one else to show your accomplishments to it would be impossible to derive any satisfaction from them.

The key is not letting your happiness depend on your ego - instead, find activities and pastimes you enjoy without anyone else's approval.

For me, one of my favorite activities in the entire world is playing a good video game. People call it a loser habit but I don't give a fuck what anyone thinks. If I lived in a million dollar penthouse in NYC, I'd still load up my hand-built computer and play a good game. I've enjoyed games since I was two years old - for me video games are my salvation.

[Nomad77]

For me, one of my favorite activities in the entire world is picking up beautiful women. If I lived in a million dollar penthouse in NYC, I'd be loading it up with girls on a regular basis. I've enjoyed picking up girls since I was 12 yrs old - for me picking up girls are my salvation and great passion in life. There is no greater challenge and no greater fun than the excitement of starting a game where the outcome is never assured and there are always factors beyond your control. It's the closest thing I can imagine to hunting a tiger in the Indian forest without putting your life on the line. I don't pickup women for sex, I do it because it's fun, it's the ultimate Game in life - you against one of the world's apex predators

"If women didn't exist, all the money in the world would have no meaning." Aristotle Onassis

[Therapsid]

I don't read this blog post as Roosh moving on from picking up beautiful women or lowering his standards. Far from it. He's just acknowledging that, after years of racking up flags, and after being honest about his genuine physical desires, the visceral urge to sleep with hot girls comes a couple of times a week on average.

Everybody's experience will vary. Some guys may take longer to sow those oats and may never stop, perhaps because their libidos are naturally higher. Some men find that other journeys and vocations become fulfilling complements to banging new chicks that they don't need to be partying five nights a week anymore, and are good with just a couple.

Personally I'm curious to see when some of you guys start discussing the pleasure of doing good for others, of leaving a lasting legacy in terms of property and wealth for children if you end up having any, of providing value to your community, whether through a prosperous business like a restaurant, through philanthropy and volunteer work, or through developing an entirely new technology or service that might even benefit some segment of mankind while you're alive or after you're gone.