[Jakesh]

Hi forum,

my first post here, bit about myself first, I'm not the typical beta you guys discuss at all, I don't orbit, I'm not needy, and I don't take any shit from anybody, just today two girls complemented me on how manly I act, but I suck at game and have some beta tendencies I need to get over.

So my situation, and I have searched the forum but I couldn't find anything relevant, I met up last night with a hot Eastern European chick I've been flirting with for a few weeks , it wasn't a date officially but after a few hours of dancing and drinking I went for the kiss. She asked me to stop and said she's not ready but I persisted and things warmed up. She tried to leave a few times but I dragged her back to the dance floor each time and she stayed for another hour and with a bit of reluctance she was all over me. Finally she told me she's meeting up with some other guy in ten days and that "this is wrong" and went to leave and this time I couldn't stop her. I walked her out but she was kinda cold and when I asked her to message me so that I'd know she got home safe she frowned and said I'll think about it. I kissed her on the cheek and walked back inside frustrated, this kinda thing usually happens to me after a great first date and it gets depressing.

Later she did text me about getting home which was surprising. I ignored it. Today in the morning she sent a medium length text thanking me for a great night, I waited until night time to text back "I had fun too,I'm glad you got back safe." In the few hours since then she's given me four missed calls, the last at 1am, all of which I've ignored. I don't know how to recover this and feel like whatever I do I'll blow it. Help me guys!

[mental]

She's writing and calling more than you so you already have some advantage. I'd try to get her to my apartment under the excuse of "let's drink a bit before we go out", mix some cocktail that's got almost no sting but lot of alcohol content (cold wine also works) and push for the bang. If that doesn't work (or if you're feeling it won't work), go to a bar (try not to go to a nightclub or a restaurant - clubs have much more competition and you certainly don't want to make the job harder, and restaurants are "boring beta type" dates) and after a while invite her to an afterparty or use Roosh's line "let's go to my apartment to sample finest city's tap water (replace city with the name of the city you're in)". If your gut is telling you she's just playing you and won't put out, just excuse yourself and go hunt other girls - when in doubt, always trust your gut, it will almost always correctly tell you if she's just flirting with you to inflate her ego or only playing hard to get.

[Jakesh]

Getting the lay once I get her alone wouldn't be the problem. I just don't know how to take it that far with this girl who doesn't know what she wants and has flake written all over her. I have to see her again anyway I visit her office once a week that's where we met. What should my next step be?? Warm reply, cold reply, no reply???

[mental]

Hmmm... as someone wise on the forum said, once you're writing about a girl you've already lost her. I'd suggest chasing another girls but since you insist: just ask her "lets talk about it over coffee, I heard xyz has great coffee" or similar and take it from there - use the "tap water" line, if near her apartment ask to use the bathroom...

[WestIndianArchie]

You've got to destroy her boyfriend if you want this lay.

She's feeling you, but the thought of him is holding her back. You've got to get into her head and mentally replace him.

You accomplish this by establishing that this guy exists, figuring out who he is and what his strengths are, and then playing on her insecurities about his fidelity. And then once the ground is laid, you hit her with your game but ramp up the drama, the "sweeping her off of her feet" feeling.

Be conscious of the fallout of what you're planning to do.

I've done this to other dudes, and other dudes have done this to me.

Doing this will just increase the blackness of your heart, and when this happens to you, it will only curse the game even more. (though arguably those of us who are jaded, stay jaded because we get something from it - you can always look @ any event in your life in the positive)

As for the brass tacks, cold shoulder was fine.
Now the ball is in your court to call back and arrange the meet up.

You're basically going to have to gauge her reaction to your withdrawal of affection.

She might want to appease you. (green light)
She may want to still remain friends. (death)
She may be angry with you for the withdrawal (jujitsu time)

In any event, if it's a green light, you can get the lay.

If she's holding on to the thought of someone else, you've got to drag it out, and turn it around on her. (see above)

Godspeed you black emperor,
WIA

[Jakesh]

Thanks a lot! I don't think he is a boyfriend actually, got the feeling its just someone she's promised to hook up with. Any advice on things to say to take him out the picture? It seems pretty counter-intuitive to even bring him up, shouldn't I be selling myself not putting him back on her mind?

I was thinking not to call and just act cool when I see her at the office this week, maybe ask her for a coffee from there, whaddya think? Would it be a good move to tell her life's too short to wait for someone who doesn't know what they want and tell her we should just be friends? I ALWAYS lose in these 50-50 situations and any advice or scripts you can give me to turn it around would be eternally appreciated!

[mental]

I'd suggest gaming like normal until she brings him up (maybe she even won't), just dismiss it like something normal - I don't care, congratulations, simply ignore it... The good thing is she didn't bring up her boyfriend yet, so she's probably interested in you, like WIA said.

[Jakesh]

So I've ignored her this far except an indifferent one line reply on a picture comment on facebook, I'm going to her office tomorrow, might have a 10 minute window of opportunity to convince her she fucked up walking out on me and getting her hooked. She's very extroverted but I gleaned she's got some deep insecurities and somethings damaged her, I'm sure this can help me but I'm not so sure how. Any advice on what to say??

[Days of Broken Arrows]

"Finally she told me she's meeting up with some other guy in ten days and that "this is wrong..."

Agree and amplify. That's the method either Roosh or Neil Strauss came up with when you hear this. This girl is either trying to get some reassurance about her choices or she gets off on the drama of the situation.

But I think you might be playing this wrong. Women who create drama with multiple guys want the drama. They are not girlfriend material, but hook-up material. She is probably trying to tell you that without directly telling you that. Why else even bring up the other guy? I've known women like this. The worst thing you can do is put them in the girlfriend slot. They need to go into to booty call category. You need to gauge her and see where she's at by a convo like this:

Her: This is wrong.
You: You're right.
Her: So what do we do (or some variation).
You: KEY LINE: Dunno -- you ever done this before?

If she says "yes" (which I think she will) then it's game on -- she gets off on juggling guys. Drama queen. Wants to feel slutty and subservient. Just proceed as normal and try and stop intellectualizing this and instead try to draw out her darkest fantasies or realities (threesomes, etc.).

I would not try to take the other guy out of the picture. If her M.O. is multiple guys, she'll just lie about him and you'll end up heartbroken. Just get her off the pedestal and play this as a hook-up. And use protection.

(Addendum: Here is a true story. When I was 22 I dated a gorgeous 18-year-old. One of the first things she told me is that she dated a guy for a year and was sleeping with his best friend on the side. While I was like "Hmmm" on the outside, on the inside I took her out of the g/f category and mentally made her a fuck-buddy. It's one thing to do this, but why did she tell me it? She was sending a message, And guess what? Pretty much every time we were together she was bringing up some guy. She lived for this, apparently. She was so hot, I was happy to have a hook-up buddy and never took her seriously. If I did, I'd have been crushed. Instead I crushed IT.)